Bush now , whatever
he may, or may not have done in the past is a committed christian who
has changed his life.

Only if you accept the Evangelical standard that declares no matter *what* you
do in your personal life, as long as you have faith in Jesus you are saved.

Some of the teachings and philosophies of Jesus don't let Christians off the
hook quite so easily.

At one point, somewhere in the Bible, Jesus tells his followers that a day will
come when they stand before judgment.
He says that on that day, the self righteous will assume they are going to be
accepted into Paradise because they had
faith. But then, Jesus says something like
"I was sick, and you do not comfort me. I was in prison, and you did not visit
me. I was hungry, and you did not feed me." The story continues that Jesus said
"The self righteous will ask, 'when were you ever sick, hungry, or in prison?',
and I will say
'as you have done or not done to the humblest of your brothers, so you have
done or not done to me'".

Such a standard certainly appears to require Christians to demonstrate and
perfect faith through service to their fellow man, rather than just do the duty
for an hour every Sunday and then get back to directing the latest invasion or
planning the theme for the following week's spin.

I would suspect that portion of the Bible gets very little air time these days.
:-)

The portions that deal with God's Annointed Warrior attacking Arab cities and
killing every living thing while Yahweh
himself "fought at his side" (see the Book of Joshua) are probably a lot more
popular in right wing churches.

On 22 Sep 2004 14:05:47 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

Bush now , whatever
he may, or may not have done in the past is a committed christian who
has changed his life.

Only if you accept the Evangelical standard that declares no matter *what* you
do in your personal life, as long as you have faith in Jesus you are saved.


So he hasn't changed is what you are saying. As far as I can see he
has. Do you have current or even recent *evidence* to the contrary,
has he been porking interns in the White House, for instance

JH

Bush now , whatever
he may, or may not have done in the past is a committed christian who
has changed his life.

Only if you accept the Evangelical standard that declares no matter *what*
you
do in your personal life, as long as you have faith in Jesus you are saved.


So he hasn't changed is what you are saying. As far as I can see he
has. Do you have current or even recent *evidence* to the contrary,
has he been porking interns in the White House, for instance

JH

If Bush hadn't changed his life, he'd be using his nose for a vaccum hose while
he followed a trail of pixie dust across the Great Seal on the oval office
floor.

I didn't say he hadn't changed.
I did say that he is hardly a "committed Christian" unless you use a definition
that says no matter what you do in your personal life you're saved by
professing belief in Jesus.

On 22 Sep 2004 23:40:51 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

Bush now , whatever
he may, or may not have done in the past is a committed christian who
has changed his life.

Only if you accept the Evangelical standard that declares no matter *what*
you
do in your personal life, as long as you have faith in Jesus you are saved.


So he hasn't changed is what you are saying. As far as I can see he
has. Do you have current or even recent *evidence* to the contrary,
has he been porking interns in the White House, for instance

JH

If Bush hadn't changed his life, he'd be using his nose for a vaccum hose while
he followed a trail of pixie dust across the Great Seal on the oval office
floor.

I didn't say he hadn't changed.
I did say that he is hardly a "committed Christian" unless you use a definition
that says no matter what you do in your personal life you're saved by
professing belief in Jesus.


I'm not evagelical, far from it, but I think the Biblical reference is
John 3:16

JH

I'm not evagelical, far from it, but I think the Biblical reference is
John 3:16

JH

Not impressed. You can prove *anything* by quoting two or three verses from the
Bible. Hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, have died in wars fought over the
question, "Do my two out-of-context verses or my interpretation trump your two
out-of-context verses or interpretation?"

As I said, if how one conducts their personal affairs and relates to other
people is of no importance, Bush can proclaim himself a mighty Christian
indeed.

A few, what, ten or maybe hundred malcontents, in a population of
millions. Hell that isn't even a good Saturday night where I come
from.

JH

You come from a place without basic services, suffering rampant unemployment,
and where candidates lining up for jobs with the police department are killed
by the dozens on almost a daily basis?

You come from a place that is occupied by a foreign power trying to keep a lid
on a percolating civil war between rival religious factions?

Tough neighborhood.

On 22 Sep 2004 23:44:54 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

A few, what, ten or maybe hundred malcontents, in a population of
millions. Hell that isn't even a good Saturday night where I come
from.

JH

You come from a place without basic services, suffering rampant unemployment,

Now why is that I wonder ? Does it have anything to do with the brutal
regime that has recently deposed. 20 years ago Basra was a thriving
trading centre. Saddam soon stopped that though eh ?

and where candidates lining up for jobs with the police department are killed
by the dozens on almost a daily basis?

Killed by the dozens, not in Basra matey. I don't have enough
intelligence in Baghdad only what I see from the press and my on the
ground sources in Basra indicate that what is reported is far from a
real picture.

You come from a place that is occupied by a foreign power trying to keep a lid
on a percolating civil war between rival religious factions?


I've worked in Northern Ireland - which at the time was pretty much
like that - except the civil war was real and the funding came from
American liberals

Tough neighborhood.

It had it's moments.

JH