Designing our trailer it looks like for our 22' boat we could have the
tongue as litle as 2' from the bow -- or 24' total rig. But we'ld like to
put the wheels (tandem) as far back as possible so less boat and
less weight is hanging out past the wheels. This should help
stability. SO, the longer the tongue, the furthur back we can
put the wheels. ~ Storage of the trailer is no problem and though
a longer rig makes tight manuvering harder I don't think we'll
have any major prolems with that.

So, any other problems with having a longer trailer tongue?

Gary, I'm not understanding the part about "the longer the tongue, the
furthur back we can put the wheels." To maintain the ~10% of the weight on
the hitch rule, increasing the tongue length works the opposite way.

In my case, my trailer has a short tongue; it's just a couple feet forward
of the bow. I find it to be a pain in the arse because I can't back down
the ramp far enough for the boat to float off the trailer. I have to give
the boat a pretty good push to slide down the bunks. If the trailer had a
longer tongue, the boat could float right off.



"Gary Warner" wrote in message
...

Designing our trailer it looks like for our 22' boat we could have the
tongue as litle as 2' from the bow -- or 24' total rig. But we'ld like to
put the wheels (tandem) as far back as possible so less boat and
less weight is hanging out past the wheels. This should help
stability. SO, the longer the tongue, the furthur back we can
put the wheels. ~ Storage of the trailer is no problem and though
a longer rig makes tight manuvering harder I don't think we'll
have any major prolems with that.

So, any other problems with having a longer trailer tongue?

Snafu wrote:
Gary, I'm not understanding the part about "the longer the tongue, the
furthur back we can put the wheels." To maintain the ~10% of the weight on
the hitch rule, increasing the tongue length works the opposite way.

Absolutely the longer the tongue (drawbar?) the further "forward" the
wheels will by to keep the balance right.

K



In my case, my trailer has a short tongue; it's just a couple feet forward
of the bow. I find it to be a pain in the arse because I can't back down
the ramp far enough for the boat to float off the trailer. I have to give
the boat a pretty good push to slide down the bunks. If the trailer had a
longer tongue, the boat could float right off.



"Gary Warner" wrote in message
...

Designing our trailer it looks like for our 22' boat we could have the
tongue as litle as 2' from the bow -- or 24' total rig. But we'ld like to
put the wheels (tandem) as far back as possible so less boat and
less weight is hanging out past the wheels. This should help
stability. SO, the longer the tongue, the furthur back we can
put the wheels. ~ Storage of the trailer is no problem and though
a longer rig makes tight manuvering harder I don't think we'll
have any major prolems with that.

So, any other problems with having a longer trailer tongue?

Snafu wrote:
Gary, I'm not understanding the part about "the longer the tongue, the
furthur back we can put the wheels." To maintain the ~10% of the weight
on
the hitch rule, increasing the tongue length works the opposite way.

Absolutely the longer the tongue (drawbar?) the further "forward" the
wheels will by to keep the balance right.


Say you have a rig, single axel, 24' long from back to tip of tongue. The
center of gravity of boat + trailer is @ 8' from the back. So if the axel
was
at 8' the thing would essentially be balanced over the axel, no weight on
the tongue.

Then you move the wheels back until you get the desired 10% / 400#
on the tongue. Say you have to move it 1' to do that. So now the
axel is at 7' from the back.

Now, you make the tongue longer. That tongue has more leverage to
the piviting point (the axel). It would be easier to lift that tongue. It
would have *less* weight when put on the ball. To get back to
the 400# you would have to move the wheels *back* more.

By tongue I do NOT mean the draw bar on the truck. I mean
that the length of the "pole" hanging out the front of the trailer
is extended and made longer.


If I'm thinking of this wrong I'd love to hear it...but I think I'm right
and more likely we just aren't picturing the same thing / using the
same language.


Thanks,
Gary


PS: Ours will actually be dual-axel and these numbers are just a guess
at what our situation will be...I don't know the actual weights or
centers-of-gravity yet. Our boat is 3800 to 4000 lbs and I think
the trailer will be 1200 or so.

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:57:24 -0500, "Gary Warner"
wrote:
Now, you make the tongue longer. That tongue has more leverage to
the piviting point (the axel). It would be easier to lift that tongue. It
would have *less* weight when put on the ball. To get back to
the 400# you would have to move the wheels *back* more.

======================

Your analysis is correct. You could either move the axles back a
little more, or bring the boat forward. I have a similar setup to
yours: 24 ft boat, approx 5,000 lbs, tandem axle trailer about 28 ft
long. Moving the boat forward 1 foot increases tongue weight by about
300 lbs. Once you get the axles about right, it's easier to adjust
the boat position.

"Wayne.B" wrote:

Your analysis is correct. You could either move the axles back a
little more, or bring the boat forward. I have a similar setup to
yours: 24 ft boat, approx 5,000 lbs, tandem axle trailer about 28 ft
long. Moving the boat forward 1 foot increases tongue weight by about
300 lbs. Once you get the axles about right, it's easier to adjust
the boat position.

Thanks.

Note: In our case we don't want to move the boat
forward. Reason is that it's a wood boat and there is
a 50 gallon gas tank right at the back going
across the boat. We want support right under the transom.
So we want the transom directly over the end of the trailer
where the risers will be.

Gary Warner wrote:
Snafu wrote:

Gary, I'm not understanding the part about "the longer the tongue, the
furthur back we can put the wheels." To maintain the ~10% of the weight

on

the hitch rule, increasing the tongue length works the opposite way.

Absolutely the longer the tongue (drawbar?) the further "forward" the
wheels will by to keep the balance right.



Say you have a rig, single axel, 24' long from back to tip of tongue. The
center of gravity of boat + trailer is @ 8' from the back. So if the axel
was
at 8' the thing would essentially be balanced over the axel, no weight on
the tongue.

Then you move the wheels back until you get the desired 10% / 400#
on the tongue. Say you have to move it 1' to do that. So now the
axel is at 7' from the back.

Now, you make the tongue longer. That tongue has more leverage to
the piviting point (the axel). It would be easier to lift that tongue. It
would have *less* weight when put on the ball. To get back to
the 400# you would have to move the wheels *back* more.

By tongue I do NOT mean the draw bar on the truck. I mean
that the length of the "pole" hanging out the front of the trailer
is extended and made longer.


If I'm thinking of this wrong I'd love to hear it...but I think I'm right
and more likely we just aren't picturing the same thing / using the
same language.


Thanks,
Gary


PS: Ours will actually be dual-axel and these numbers are just a guess
at what our situation will be...I don't know the actual weights or
centers-of-gravity yet. Our boat is 3800 to 4000 lbs and I think
the trailer will be 1200 or so.



Now you say it that way yes I now totally accept you're correct all
along & my apologies. I screwed up.

K

"K Smith" wrote:

Now you say it that way yes I now totally accept you're correct all
along & my apologies. I screwed up.

K


Thanks for the input, no appologies ever necessary if the intent is all
good.

K Smith wrote in message ...
Snafu wrote:
Gary, I'm not understanding the part about "the longer the tongue, the
furthur back we can put the wheels." To maintain the ~10% of the weight on
the hitch rule, increasing the tongue length works the opposite way.

Absolutely the longer the tongue (drawbar?) the further "forward" the
wheels will by to keep the balance right.

K

Once again, you've proven you stick your nose where it doesn't belong.
You certainly don't understand simple physics. If you make the tongue
longer, you will need to move the wheels BACK to keep the balance the
same. Say you have the tongue 10' from the wheels, and the tongue
weight is 100 pounds, to say, at that 10', you need to resist 100
pounds to lift the tongue. Now, we extend the tongue, to 15'. Now you
have a longer lever, thereby LESS tongue weight. To compensate, you
need to move the wheels BACK.

On 10 Dec 2003 09:00:31 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

K Smith wrote in message ...
Snafu wrote:
Gary, I'm not understanding the part about "the longer the tongue, the
furthur back we can put the wheels." To maintain the ~10% of the weight on
the hitch rule, increasing the tongue length works the opposite way.

Absolutely the longer the tongue (drawbar?) the further "forward" the
wheels will by to keep the balance right.

Once again, you've proven you stick your nose where it doesn't belong.
You certainly don't understand simple physics. If you make the tongue
longer, you will need to move the wheels BACK to keep the balance the
same. Say you have the tongue 10' from the wheels, and the tongue
weight is 100 pounds, to say, at that 10', you need to resist 100
pounds to lift the tongue. Now, we extend the tongue, to 15'. Now you
have a longer lever, thereby LESS tongue weight. To compensate, you
need to move the wheels BACK.

It really pains me to see the lack of understanding of basic physics by
a lot of people that this thread has exposed. For example, take the
argument above. Both of you may be right, both of you may be wrong, you
can't tell from the information given. In the specific example above of
a tongue weight of 100lbs with a tongue length of 10' from axle to
hitch, if you extend the tongue another 5' you may have to move the axle
forward, backward, or not at all to keep that 100lb hitch weight.
That's because in addition to changing the lever length, the weight on
the hitch also depends on what the weight of the additional 5' of tongue
did to the balance point. Since that hasn't been specified, the answer
is unknown.

Steve