"NOYB" wrote in message ...
"NOYB" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Wouldn't it be something if it were discovered that those memos were
faked?

Uh-oh...well, looky-he



http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics....20040909d.html

'60 Minutes' Documents on Bush Might Be Fake
By Robert B. Bluey
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
September 09, 2004

(CNSNews.com) -


CNS is the "Christian News Service."

Try to find a news source that isn't sucking Bush's dick, or vice
versa,
eh?

Give it time, Harry. The liberal left eventually, but reluctantly
starts
reporting on the truth once it hits the airwaves...or, in this case, the
internet.


And right on cue, here is a report from ABC News:


False Documentation?
Questions Arise About Authenticity of Newly Found Memos on Bush's Guard
Service




http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Polit..._040909-1.html


Wow! And another "mainstream" non-Bush-dick-sucking news source has picked
up on the possibility that the memos were forged.
Page A1 of Friday's Washington Post!!!


Some Question Authenticity of Papers on Bush

By Michael Dobbs and Mike Allen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, September 10, 2004; Page A01


Documents unearthed by CBS News that raise doubts about whether President
Bush fulfilled his obligations to the Texas Air National Guard include
several features suggesting that they were generated by a computer or word
processor rather than a Vietnam War-era typewriter, experts said yesterday.

Experts consulted by a range of news organizations pointed out typographical
and formatting questions about four documents as they considered the
possibility that they were forged. The widow of the National Guard officer
whose signature is on the bottom of the documents also disputed their
authenticity.

The documents, which were shown Wednesday night on "60 Minutes II," bear
dates from 1972 and 1973 and include an order for Bush to report for his
annual physical exam and a discussion of how he could get out of "coming to
drill."

The dispute over the documents' authenticity came as Democrats stepped up
their criticism of Bush's service with the National Guard between 1968 and
1973. The Democratic National Committee sought to fuel the controversy
yesterday by holding a news conference at which Sen. Tom Harkin (Iowa)
pointed to the documents as a fresh indictment of Bush's credibility.

CBS News released a statement yesterday standing by its reporting, saying
that each of the documents "was thoroughly vetted by independent experts and
we are convinced of their authenticity." The statement added that CBS
reporters had verified the documents by talking to unidentified people who
saw them "at the time they were written."

CBS spokeswoman Kelli Edwards declined to respond to questions raised by
experts who examined copies of the papers at the request of The Washington
Post, or to provide the names of the experts CBS consulted. Experts
interviewed by The Post pointed to a series of telltale signs suggesting
that the documents were generated by a computer or word processor rather
than the typewriters in widespread use by Bush's National Guard unit.

A senior CBS official, who asked not to be named because CBS managers did
not want to go beyond their official statement, named one of the network's
sources as retired Maj. Gen. Bobby W. Hodges, the immediate superior of the
documents' alleged author, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian. He said a CBS reporter
read the documents to Hodges over the phone and Hodges replied that "these
are the things that Killian had expressed to me at the time."

"These documents represent what Killian not only was putting in memoranda,
but was telling other people," the CBS News official said.
"Journalistically, we've gone several extra miles."

The official said the network regarded Hodges's comments as "the trump card"
on the question of authenticity, as he is a Republican who acknowledged that
he did not want to hurt Bush. Hodges, who declined to grant an on-camera
interview to CBS, did not respond to messages left on his home answering
machine in Texas.

In a telephone interview from her Texas home, Killian's widow, Marjorie
Connell, described the records as "a farce," saying she was with her husband
until the day he died in 1984 and he did not "keep files." She said her
husband considered Bush "an excellent pilot."

"I don't think there were any documents. He was not a paper person," she
said, adding that she was "livid" at CBS. A CBS reporter contacted her
briefly before Wednesday night's broadcasts, she said, but did not ask her
to authenticate the records.

If demonstrated to be authentic, the documents would contradict several
long-standing claims by the White House about an episode in Bush's National
Guard service in 1972, when he abruptly gave up flying and moved from Texas
to Alabama to take part in a political campaign. The CBS documents purport
to show that Killian, who was Bush's squadron commander, was unhappy with
Bush for his performance toward meeting his National Guard commitments and
resisted pressure from his superiors to "sugarcoat" the record.

After their initial airing on the "CBS Evening News" and "60 Minutes II"
programs Wednesday night, the documents were picked up by other news
organizations, including The Post. A front-page story in The Post yesterday
noted that CBS declined to provide details about the source of the
documents, the authenticity of which could not be independently confirmed.

On Wednesday evening, the White House e-mailed reporters copies of the
documents, as supplied by CBS, as well as the transcript of a CBS interview
with White House communications director Dan Bartlett rebutting allegations
that Bush had shirked his military duties. While Bartlett described the
emergence of the documents as "dirty politics," he did not dispute their
authenticity.

After doubts about the documents began circulating on the Internet yesterday
morning, The Post contacted several independent experts who said they
appeared to have been generated by a word processor. An examination of the
documents by The Post shows that they are formatted differently from other
Texas Air National Guard documents whose authenticity is not questioned.

William Flynn, a forensic document specialist with 35 years of experience in
police crime labs and private practice, said the CBS documents raise
suspicions because of their use of proportional spacing techniques.
Documents generated by the kind of typewriters that were widely used in 1972
space letters evenly across the page, so that an "i" uses as much space as
an "m." In the CBS documents, by contrast, each letter uses a different
amount of space.

While IBM had introduced an electric typewriter that used proportional
spacing by the early 1970s, it was not widely used in government. In
addition, Flynn said, the CBS documents appear to use proportional spacing
both across and down the page, a relatively recent innovation. Other
anomalies in the documents include the use of the superscripted letters "th"
in phrases such as 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron, Bush's unit.

"It would be nearly impossible for all this technology to have existed at
that time," said Flynn, who runs a document-authentication company in
Phoenix.

Other experts largely concurred. Phil Bouffard, a forensic document examiner
from Cleveland, said the font used in the CBS documents appeared to be Times
Roman, which is widely used by word-processing programs but was not common
on typewriters.

CBS officials insisted that the network had done due diligence in checking
out the authenticity of the documents with independent experts over six
weeks. The senior CBS official said the network had talked to four
typewriting and handwriting experts "who put our concerns to rest" and
confirmed the authenticity of Killian's signature.

The doubts about the documents left the White House and the Bush campaign in
a state of suspended animation, with Bush aides encouraging doubts about the
documents but conceding that the possibility that they were forged seemed
too good to be true. White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said that
officials there had not attempted to authenticate the documents but simply
released copies "provided to us by CBS in the interests of openness."

The Bush administration's strategy yesterday was to let news organizations
raise doubts and conduct forensic examinations, without taking an official
position on whether the documents were genuine.

"It's clear in reviewing the documents that they do nothing to change the
fact that the president served honorably, and was proud of his service in
the Air National Guard," Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt said.

Staff writer Howard Kurtz and researcher Lucy Shackelford contributed to
this report.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------

How delicious! Hehehe. And to think...a "right-wing" news source reported it
first.


Turned out wrong.....and the REAL report is that the son of the person
who wrote the reports, stated ONE of them MAY not be authentic. I
guess he's your expert, seeing how he's the son???

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:


Some Question Authenticity of Papers on Bush

By Michael Dobbs and Mike Allen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, September 10, 2004; Page A01


Documents unearthed by CBS News that raise doubts about whether
President
Bush fulfilled his obligations to the Texas Air National Guard include
several features suggesting that they were generated by a computer or
word
processor rather than a Vietnam War-era typewriter, experts said
yesterday.

Experts consulted by a range of news organizations pointed out
typographical
and formatting questions about four documents as they considered the
possibility that they were forged. The widow of the National Guard
officer
whose signature is on the bottom of the documents also disputed their
authenticity.



"Experts"?

Bullship. The whole argument that the docs are false.

Before your time, IBM Selectric I's had special keys for all sorts of
special characters, including at least two pi type elements -- that is,
elements that consisted of symbols instead of alphanumeric characters.
Even earlier typewriters, ones with striker keys, sometimes allowed you
to replace the strikers of little-used keys (e.g., the +/=) with more
useful ones -- sometimes accented characters, sometimes little
graphics, and sometimes small two-character sets, such as TM or th or
st or nd. This is all to say that superscript characters were far from
unknown, or undoable, on typewriters.

The idea that Microsoft Word was used here and that the "forger"
screwed up by allowing the th to autocorrect is defeated by the
defining, ornamental dash under the th, which was common in typewriter
days but is not used now, and is not used in Word. Word simply takes
the th you typed and superscripts it...if you want it to do so.

There are no proportional character sets here in the documents. They
are common pica sets: all letterspaces are equal, no matter what the
character or its case is. In fact, most of the entries are in a font
that was generally called Pica; the entry at the bottom, for 1 Oct 73,
appears to be in Prestige Elite, a common, space-saving Selectric font.
You got 72 characters per typewritten line with Pica and 85 or so with
Prestige Elite. Selectrics were common by 1973.

I don't know how anybody can look at this memo and decide that it was
other than typed on a typewriter (or rather, over time, on several
typewriters). Just amazing.

Nice try on the part of the Bush-****ters to quell the truth.


http://www.democraticunderground.com...ess=132x779588


You slam CNS as a credible news source...and then back your attack by citing
democraticunderground.com?!?!?

*THAT's* chutzpah!

NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:


Some Question Authenticity of Papers on Bush

By Michael Dobbs and Mike Allen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, September 10, 2004; Page A01


Documents unearthed by CBS News that raise doubts about whether
President
Bush fulfilled his obligations to the Texas Air National Guard include
several features suggesting that they were generated by a computer or
word
processor rather than a Vietnam War-era typewriter, experts said
yesterday.

Experts consulted by a range of news organizations pointed out
typographical
and formatting questions about four documents as they considered the
possibility that they were forged. The widow of the National Guard
officer
whose signature is on the bottom of the documents also disputed their
authenticity.



"Experts"?

Bullship. The whole argument that the docs are false.

Before your time, IBM Selectric I's had special keys for all sorts of
special characters, including at least two pi type elements -- that is,
elements that consisted of symbols instead of alphanumeric characters.
Even earlier typewriters, ones with striker keys, sometimes allowed you
to replace the strikers of little-used keys (e.g., the +/=) with more
useful ones -- sometimes accented characters, sometimes little
graphics, and sometimes small two-character sets, such as TM or th or
st or nd. This is all to say that superscript characters were far from
unknown, or undoable, on typewriters.

The idea that Microsoft Word was used here and that the "forger"
screwed up by allowing the th to autocorrect is defeated by the
defining, ornamental dash under the th, which was common in typewriter
days but is not used now, and is not used in Word. Word simply takes
the th you typed and superscripts it...if you want it to do so.

There are no proportional character sets here in the documents. They
are common pica sets: all letterspaces are equal, no matter what the
character or its case is. In fact, most of the entries are in a font
that was generally called Pica; the entry at the bottom, for 1 Oct 73,
appears to be in Prestige Elite, a common, space-saving Selectric font.
You got 72 characters per typewritten line with Pica and 85 or so with
Prestige Elite. Selectrics were common by 1973.

I don't know how anybody can look at this memo and decide that it was
other than typed on a typewriter (or rather, over time, on several
typewriters). Just amazing.

Nice try on the part of the Bush-****ters to quell the truth.


http://www.democraticunderground.com...ess=132x779588


You slam CNS as a credible news source...and then back your attack by citing
democraticunderground.com?!?!?

*THAT's* chutzpah!



CNS is right-wing crap...and the underground site I cited offers
discussion and a look at the actual docs.

--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

"NOYB" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Wouldn't it be something if it were discovered that those memos were
faked?

Uh-oh...well, looky-he



http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics....20040909d.html

'60 Minutes' Documents on Bush Might Be Fake
By Robert B. Bluey
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
September 09, 2004

(CNSNews.com) -


CNS is the "Christian News Service."

Try to find a news source that isn't sucking Bush's dick, or vice
versa,
eh?

Give it time, Harry. The liberal left eventually, but reluctantly
starts
reporting on the truth once it hits the airwaves...or, in this case, the
internet.


And right on cue, here is a report from ABC News:


False Documentation?
Questions Arise About Authenticity of Newly Found Memos on Bush's Guard
Service




http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Polit..._040909-1.html




"Many Democrats are worried that if they are found to be forgeries, it will
be a setback for Sen. John Kerry's campaign to defeat Bush in November"

Yeah.....no ****.......................

I won't be holding my breath for any of the socialist liebral thugs to issue
a retraction.

"NOYB" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Wouldn't it be something if it were discovered that those memos
were
faked?

Uh-oh...well, looky-he




http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics....20040909d.html

'60 Minutes' Documents on Bush Might Be Fake
By Robert B. Bluey
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
September 09, 2004

(CNSNews.com) -


CNS is the "Christian News Service."

Try to find a news source that isn't sucking Bush's dick, or vice
versa,
eh?

Give it time, Harry. The liberal left eventually, but reluctantly
starts
reporting on the truth once it hits the airwaves...or, in this case,
the
internet.


And right on cue, here is a report from ABC News:


False Documentation?
Questions Arise About Authenticity of Newly Found Memos on Bush's Guard
Service





http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Polit..._040909-1.html


Wow! And another "mainstream" non-Bush-dick-sucking news source has
picked
up on the possibility that the memos were forged.
Page A1 of Friday's Washington Post!!!


Some Question Authenticity of Papers on Bush

By Michael Dobbs and Mike Allen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, September 10, 2004; Page A01


Documents unearthed by CBS News that raise doubts about whether President
Bush fulfilled his obligations to the Texas Air National Guard include
several features suggesting that they were generated by a computer or word
processor rather than a Vietnam War-era typewriter, experts said
yesterday.

Experts consulted by a range of news organizations pointed out
typographical
and formatting questions about four documents as they considered the
possibility that they were forged. The widow of the National Guard officer
whose signature is on the bottom of the documents also disputed their
authenticity.

The documents, which were shown Wednesday night on "60 Minutes II," bear
dates from 1972 and 1973 and include an order for Bush to report for his
annual physical exam and a discussion of how he could get out of "coming
to
drill."

The dispute over the documents' authenticity came as Democrats stepped up
their criticism of Bush's service with the National Guard between 1968 and
1973. The Democratic National Committee sought to fuel the controversy
yesterday by holding a news conference at which Sen. Tom Harkin (Iowa)
pointed to the documents as a fresh indictment of Bush's credibility.

CBS News released a statement yesterday standing by its reporting, saying
that each of the documents "was thoroughly vetted by independent experts
and
we are convinced of their authenticity." The statement added that CBS
reporters had verified the documents by talking to unidentified people who
saw them "at the time they were written."

CBS spokeswoman Kelli Edwards declined to respond to questions raised by
experts who examined copies of the papers at the request of The Washington
Post, or to provide the names of the experts CBS consulted. Experts
interviewed by The Post pointed to a series of telltale signs suggesting
that the documents were generated by a computer or word processor rather
than the typewriters in widespread use by Bush's National Guard unit.

A senior CBS official, who asked not to be named because CBS managers did
not want to go beyond their official statement, named one of the network's
sources as retired Maj. Gen. Bobby W. Hodges, the immediate superior of
the
documents' alleged author, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian. He said a CBS
reporter
read the documents to Hodges over the phone and Hodges replied that "these
are the things that Killian had expressed to me at the time."

"These documents represent what Killian not only was putting in memoranda,
but was telling other people," the CBS News official said.
"Journalistically, we've gone several extra miles."

The official said the network regarded Hodges's comments as "the trump
card"
on the question of authenticity, as he is a Republican who acknowledged
that
he did not want to hurt Bush. Hodges, who declined to grant an on-camera
interview to CBS, did not respond to messages left on his home answering
machine in Texas.

In a telephone interview from her Texas home, Killian's widow, Marjorie
Connell, described the records as "a farce," saying she was with her
husband
until the day he died in 1984 and he did not "keep files." She said her
husband considered Bush "an excellent pilot."

"I don't think there were any documents. He was not a paper person," she
said, adding that she was "livid" at CBS. A CBS reporter contacted her
briefly before Wednesday night's broadcasts, she said, but did not ask her
to authenticate the records.

If demonstrated to be authentic, the documents would contradict several
long-standing claims by the White House about an episode in Bush's
National
Guard service in 1972, when he abruptly gave up flying and moved from
Texas
to Alabama to take part in a political campaign. The CBS documents purport
to show that Killian, who was Bush's squadron commander, was unhappy with
Bush for his performance toward meeting his National Guard commitments and
resisted pressure from his superiors to "sugarcoat" the record.

After their initial airing on the "CBS Evening News" and "60 Minutes II"
programs Wednesday night, the documents were picked up by other news
organizations, including The Post. A front-page story in The Post
yesterday
noted that CBS declined to provide details about the source of the
documents, the authenticity of which could not be independently confirmed.

On Wednesday evening, the White House e-mailed reporters copies of the
documents, as supplied by CBS, as well as the transcript of a CBS
interview
with White House communications director Dan Bartlett rebutting
allegations
that Bush had shirked his military duties. While Bartlett described the
emergence of the documents as "dirty politics," he did not dispute their
authenticity.

After doubts about the documents began circulating on the Internet
yesterday
morning, The Post contacted several independent experts who said they
appeared to have been generated by a word processor. An examination of the
documents by The Post shows that they are formatted differently from other
Texas Air National Guard documents whose authenticity is not questioned.

William Flynn, a forensic document specialist with 35 years of experience
in
police crime labs and private practice, said the CBS documents raise
suspicions because of their use of proportional spacing techniques.
Documents generated by the kind of typewriters that were widely used in
1972
space letters evenly across the page, so that an "i" uses as much space as
an "m." In the CBS documents, by contrast, each letter uses a different
amount of space.

While IBM had introduced an electric typewriter that used proportional
spacing by the early 1970s, it was not widely used in government. In
addition, Flynn said, the CBS documents appear to use proportional spacing
both across and down the page, a relatively recent innovation. Other
anomalies in the documents include the use of the superscripted letters
"th"
in phrases such as 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron, Bush's unit.

"It would be nearly impossible for all this technology to have existed at
that time," said Flynn, who runs a document-authentication company in
Phoenix.

Other experts largely concurred. Phil Bouffard, a forensic document
examiner
from Cleveland, said the font used in the CBS documents appeared to be
Times
Roman, which is widely used by word-processing programs but was not common
on typewriters.

CBS officials insisted that the network had done due diligence in checking
out the authenticity of the documents with independent experts over six
weeks. The senior CBS official said the network had talked to four
typewriting and handwriting experts "who put our concerns to rest" and
confirmed the authenticity of Killian's signature.

The doubts about the documents left the White House and the Bush campaign
in
a state of suspended animation, with Bush aides encouraging doubts about
the
documents but conceding that the possibility that they were forged seemed
too good to be true. White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said that
officials there had not attempted to authenticate the documents but simply
released copies "provided to us by CBS in the interests of openness."

The Bush administration's strategy yesterday was to let news organizations
raise doubts and conduct forensic examinations, without taking an official
position on whether the documents were genuine.

"It's clear in reviewing the documents that they do nothing to change the
fact that the president served honorably, and was proud of his service in
the Air National Guard," Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt said.

Staff writer Howard Kurtz and researcher Lucy Shackelford contributed to
this report.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
----------------------------------

How delicious! Hehehe. And to think...a "right-wing" news source reported
it
first.



I'm sure hat ABC etc will more be more than happy to expose the egg on CBS's
face

LMAO

Harry Krause wrote in message ...
NOYB wrote:

Wouldn't it be something if it were discovered that those memos were faked?
Uh-oh...well, looky-he

'60 Minutes' Documents on Bush Might Be Fake
By Robert B. Bluey

CNS is the "Christian News Service."
Try to find a news source that isn't sucking Bush's dick, or vice versa, eh?

Well, how about the alleged letter's ex-wife (do you call them
Widows?), and son? Interviews with them cast large doubt regarding
the authenticity. Both say that Jerry Killian was not a typist. Even
his Personnel Chief said the documents appear to be fakes. Of course,
there is Bill Flynn (document authentication expert with an actual
NAME, unlike the un-namable CBS expert phantoms) who also said that
the documents don't appear consistent with 1972/1973 technology.

Every memo provided have neither words spelled incorrectly nor actual
typos. All memos seem to have proportionally spaced fonts. They even
use superscripting (smaller font, raised from the base-line) on one
document.

The "Memorandum FOR 1st Lt. George...SUBJECT: Annual..." even has the
first three header lines centered to within 2.5 pixels. The date and
the signature portions (not the signature proper, but the typed
version) are even within 3 pixels of alignment. That's impressive for
a non-typist. Heck, it's great for 1972 technology typewriters likely
to be used by the cheap Texas Air National Guard -- the rule is "if
one unit has it, they all have it". The IBM Selectric II was out at
that time (barely), but I don't think IBM sold proportional-supported
devices to the DOD (or war dept before them), and centering was
definitely not supported. However, tab setting was available. I
actually owned the selectrics (for personal use, and if the last one
hadn't broken down in the 1990s I'd still be using them, they are that
good!).

Now, for the other sources :
CBC (Canadian, remember, they think we're (or Bush at least) idiots) :
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/nation...emo040910.html
ABC News has one too (I will omit Florida and Texas-related sites for
reasons of perceived sycophantism).
There is the weekly standard :
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...4/598wfpet.asp
Voice Of America (ok, that might be biased)...
If Australia is "far enough away" then the Sydney Morning Herald has
an article, as does the IHT France (but that's basically a British
rag, as I recall). There are really quite a lot of pubs covering
this.

Floomis wrote:
Harry Krause wrote in message ...
NOYB wrote:

Wouldn't it be something if it were discovered that those memos were faked?
Uh-oh...well, looky-he

'60 Minutes' Documents on Bush Might Be Fake
By Robert B. Bluey

CNS is the "Christian News Service."
Try to find a news source that isn't sucking Bush's dick, or vice versa, eh?

Well, how about the alleged letter's ex-wife (do you call them
Widows?), and son? Interviews with them cast large doubt regarding
the authenticity. Both say that Jerry Killian was not a typist.

Yeah, field-grade officers did their own typint...that's the ticket.
Did he take shorthand, too?

--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!