Also Sprach Bill Kiene :
There are tons of old boats around with large (over 100hp) old 2 strokes
that are no longer worth the trouble especially with labor, parts and fuel
costs.

Feh. My 140 HP Johnson is almost as old as I am, and has been 100%
relible in the 5 years I've owned it. Parts, if needed, are far cheaper
than a brand new 4-stroke or DFI 2 stroke. For one thing, there are far
fewer parts to begin with. Also, since it's been around forever, there
are plenty of aftermarket manufacturers to buy parts from, while with a
brand new engine you have no choice other than the manufacterer's
parts.

An example, I replaced the water pump earlier this season. It cost me
$39.95 for a complete kit, new impeller, gaskets, housing and
liner. Anyone want to look up what it costs for a 2004 4-stroke of
similar size?

The fuel cost argument is a non-starter. A few extra gallons a
year is FAR cheaper than spending 15,000 plus installation costs to
repower.

Dan

--

JESUS SAVES, but I makes backups!

An example, I replaced the water pump earlier this season. It cost me
$39.95 for a complete kit, new impeller, gaskets, housing and
liner. Anyone want to look up what it costs for a 2004 4-stroke of
similar size?

Mynew 4 stroke 60 big foot uses exactly the same kit as my 1989 75 2 stroke.

On 9 Sep 2004 03:52:44 GMT, Marshall Banana wrote:

Also Sprach Bill Kiene :
There are tons of old boats around with large (over 100hp) old 2 strokes
that are no longer worth the trouble especially with labor, parts and fuel
costs.

Feh. My 140 HP Johnson is almost as old as I am, and has been 100%
relible in the 5 years I've owned it. Parts, if needed, are far cheaper
than a brand new 4-stroke or DFI 2 stroke. For one thing, there are far
fewer parts to begin with. Also, since it's been around forever, there
are plenty of aftermarket manufacturers to buy parts from, while with a
brand new engine you have no choice other than the manufacterer's
parts.

An example, I replaced the water pump earlier this season. It cost me
$39.95 for a complete kit, new impeller, gaskets, housing and
liner. Anyone want to look up what it costs for a 2004 4-stroke of
similar size?

I'm not so sure about that - I know on my FICHT that a lot of the
mechanical parts are identical to earlier to models and OEM parts.
It's the engine stuff that is different.

The fuel cost argument is a non-starter. A few extra gallons a
year is FAR cheaper than spending 15,000 plus installation costs to
repower.

I totally agree with you here, but I have FICHTS, I like FICHTS and
will probably stay with the DFI technology.

I will say that I was mightly impressed with the Honda four strokes.
I rode in a USCG boat powered with two Honda 225s and quiet, the boat
came up on plane quickly and talk about speed - amazing.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 9 Sep 2004 03:52:44 GMT, Marshall Banana wrote:

Also Sprach Bill Kiene :
There are tons of old boats around with large (over 100hp) old 2 strokes
that are no longer worth the trouble especially with labor, parts and fuel
costs.

Feh. My 140 HP Johnson is almost as old as I am, and has been 100%
relible in the 5 years I've owned it. Parts, if needed, are far cheaper
than a brand new 4-stroke or DFI 2 stroke. For one thing, there are far
fewer parts to begin with. Also, since it's been around forever, there
are plenty of aftermarket manufacturers to buy parts from, while with a
brand new engine you have no choice other than the manufacterer's
parts.

An example, I replaced the water pump earlier this season. It cost me
$39.95 for a complete kit, new impeller, gaskets, housing and
liner. Anyone want to look up what it costs for a 2004 4-stroke of
similar size?

I'm not so sure about that - I know on my FICHT that a lot of the
mechanical parts are identical to earlier to models and OEM parts.
It's the engine stuff that is different.

The fuel cost argument is a non-starter. A few extra gallons a
year is FAR cheaper than spending 15,000 plus installation costs to
repower.

I totally agree with you here, but I have FICHTS, I like FICHTS and
will probably stay with the DFI technology.

I will say that I was mightly impressed with the Honda four strokes.
I rode in a USCG boat powered with two Honda 225s and quiet, the boat
came up on plane quickly and talk about speed - amazing.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT

I had a Merc Opti 135 V6 for five seasons before buying our current
Parker with the Yamaha 225 four cycle. At the time we got the Parker, I
wanted to order it with two 150 Merc Optis, but the Parker factory
simply would not sell our model with anything but Yamahas.

I've been pleased with the Yamaha, but I was also pleased with the Merc.
The one big difference I've noticed in operations is that the Yamaha is
much quieter at idle.

Both engines are plumbers' and electricians' nightmares under the hoods,
and I simply do not mess with them in any way. If a repair or adjustment
is needed, the dealer's mechanics get the work.



--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:33:34 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippity do da ~~

I had a Merc Opti 135 V6 for five seasons before buying our current
Parker with the Yamaha 225 four cycle. At the time we got the Parker, I
wanted to order it with two 150 Merc Optis, but the Parker factory
simply would not sell our model with anything but Yamahas.

That's another thing that annoys the hell out of me.

I have been looking at mid-range between the 20' Ranger and the 32'
Contender with an eye toward getting something a little larger with a
deeper V than the Ranger for use when the waves kick up larger than 2'
or so. I really don't need three boats, but there is always the
possibility that I might sell the Ranger (yeah - right).

Anyway, looking at manufacturers of boats in this range (say 23' to
25' trailerable), you can't get them to move out of the factory
pre-rig. I know, I've even offered cash for a boat pre-rigged with
Evinrude controls and the factory will not budge - Yamaha only -
nothing else. Oh, and if I sold the Yamaha and put an Evinrude on the
boat, the factory boat warranty is void.

I know that the Japanese outboard manufacturers are really aggressive
right now, but doesn't this seem like restraint of trade?

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:33:34 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippity do da ~~

I had a Merc Opti 135 V6 for five seasons before buying our current
Parker with the Yamaha 225 four cycle. At the time we got the Parker, I
wanted to order it with two 150 Merc Optis, but the Parker factory
simply would not sell our model with anything but Yamahas.

That's another thing that annoys the hell out of me.

I have been looking at mid-range between the 20' Ranger and the 32'
Contender with an eye toward getting something a little larger with a
deeper V than the Ranger for use when the waves kick up larger than 2'
or so. I really don't need three boats, but there is always the
possibility that I might sell the Ranger (yeah - right).

Anyway, looking at manufacturers of boats in this range (say 23' to
25' trailerable), you can't get them to move out of the factory
pre-rig. I know, I've even offered cash for a boat pre-rigged with
Evinrude controls and the factory will not budge - Yamaha only -
nothing else. Oh, and if I sold the Yamaha and put an Evinrude on the
boat, the factory boat warranty is void.

I know that the Japanese outboard manufacturers are really aggressive
right now, but doesn't this seem like restraint of trade?

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT



I think it is. In my case, other Parker models were available at that
time unrigged...that is, with no outboard at all installed. There are
some mostly showroom only dealers who do not have the mechanics
available to rig a boat properly, but it isn't rocket science, and all
the engine manufacturers sell rigging kits.




--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

In article ,
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:33:34 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippity do da ~~

I had a Merc Opti 135 V6 for five seasons before buying our current
Parker with the Yamaha 225 four cycle. At the time we got the Parker, I
wanted to order it with two 150 Merc Optis, but the Parker factory
simply would not sell our model with anything but Yamahas.

That's another thing that annoys the hell out of me.

I have been looking at mid-range between the 20' Ranger and the 32'
Contender with an eye toward getting something a little larger with a
deeper V than the Ranger for use when the waves kick up larger than 2'
or so. I really don't need three boats, but there is always the
possibility that I might sell the Ranger (yeah - right).

Anyway, looking at manufacturers of boats in this range (say 23' to
25' trailerable), you can't get them to move out of the factory
pre-rig. I know, I've even offered cash for a boat pre-rigged with
Evinrude controls and the factory will not budge - Yamaha only -
nothing else. Oh, and if I sold the Yamaha and put an Evinrude on the
boat, the factory boat warranty is void.

I know that the Japanese outboard manufacturers are really aggressive
right now, but doesn't this seem like restraint of trade?

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653


May be.

However, Mercury started it. There were years where I elimitated a number
of boat lines, both in I/O and outboard, because I couldn't get anything
OTHER THAN Merc on /in it.

How come people only whine about "restraint of trade" when its the Japs
doing it?

--
--
Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 22:40:52 GMT, (Karl
Denninger) wrote:


In article ,
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:33:34 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippity do da ~~

I had a Merc Opti 135 V6 for five seasons before buying our current
Parker with the Yamaha 225 four cycle. At the time we got the Parker, I
wanted to order it with two 150 Merc Optis, but the Parker factory
simply would not sell our model with anything but Yamahas.

That's another thing that annoys the hell out of me.

I have been looking at mid-range between the 20' Ranger and the 32'
Contender with an eye toward getting something a little larger with a
deeper V than the Ranger for use when the waves kick up larger than 2'
or so. I really don't need three boats, but there is always the
possibility that I might sell the Ranger (yeah - right).

Anyway, looking at manufacturers of boats in this range (say 23' to
25' trailerable), you can't get them to move out of the factory
pre-rig. I know, I've even offered cash for a boat pre-rigged with
Evinrude controls and the factory will not budge - Yamaha only -
nothing else. Oh, and if I sold the Yamaha and put an Evinrude on the
boat, the factory boat warranty is void.

I know that the Japanese outboard manufacturers are really aggressive
right now, but doesn't this seem like restraint of trade?

May be.

However, Mercury started it. There were years where I elimitated a number
of boat lines, both in I/O and outboard, because I couldn't get anything
OTHER THAN Merc on /in it.

How come people only whine about "restraint of trade" when its the Japs
doing it?

I've never run into this before with any engine manufacturer like I
have this year. Formerly, if Merc was offered and I wanted Johnson, I
had it prerigged for Johnson - never was I not allowed a different
option if I wanted it.

Later,

Tom