"Calif Bill" wrote in message k.net...
You still know less than ****. Well, you do know ****! Rust and expansion
is a major item for rebar in concrete bridge construction. Actually I know
a lot about rebar. My buddy, who we debate some construction issues, is the
son of the owner of the last american owned rebar manufacturer, and still
sells rebar, now that the foundry's have been sold.
Bill

And this somehow qualifies you as a concrete bridge expert??
Bwaaahaaa!!!!!!

I hate to burst your bubble, but reinforcing rust and expansion has
been an issue forever, and has been dealt with many, many times over.
Old hat. I began dealing with the issue while still in undergrad
school. Still dealing with it. May I suggest that you take a look at
ACI 318 for starters? You actually gain REAL knowledge there, more
than you'll get from a reinforcing salesman.

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...
Nothing better at a decent price. They epoxy coat now and that will
help.
Trouble is concrete is fantastic at supporting compression, but any
other
direction and get failures.
Bill

What about fiber reinforced concrete? What about composite-fiber type
reinforcement bars for concrete? What about using structural steel
members, embedded for tensile reinforcement?

repeat "Nothing better at a decent price"

All versions of the rebar. I do not see where the fiber reinforced concrete
is code for structural members. You people in Florida do not seem to know
how to build safe buildings. True example. After the last bad hurricane,
one of the towns was leveled, except for a couple of houses that looked like
there had not been a hurricane. Turns out they were Habitat for Humanity
built homes and were built to California earthquake standards. 16" stud
centers, bolted to foundation, hurricane straps on the roof trusses.
Florida did not require bolting, hurricane straps, and most are on 24" stud
centers.

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...
You still know less than ****. Well, you do know ****! Rust and
expansion
is a major item for rebar in concrete bridge construction. Actually I
know
a lot about rebar. My buddy, who we debate some construction issues, is
the
son of the owner of the last american owned rebar manufacturer, and
still
sells rebar, now that the foundry's have been sold.
Bill

And this somehow qualifies you as a concrete bridge expert??
Bwaaahaaa!!!!!!

I hate to burst your bubble, but reinforcing rust and expansion has
been an issue forever, and has been dealt with many, many times over.
Old hat. I began dealing with the issue while still in undergrad
school. Still dealing with it. May I suggest that you take a look at
ACI 318 for starters? You actually gain REAL knowledge there, more
than you'll get from a reinforcing salesman.

I hate to burst your bubble, but you mostly repeated what I said about rebar
and expansion.

Florida did not require bolting, hurricane straps, and most are on 24" stud
centers.

Bull****, that has been in the southern building code as long as I can remember
and the current Florida building code is stronger than any other code in the
country for uplift and wind.
You were looking at trailers or manufactured homes assuming they met any code
at all.

bass,
Good point! I guess that I'd feel better about slowing down if I felt
there was a real need to. Perhaps we need education and research to show
exactly how much harm is caused. On the other hand if I were to approach the
bridge and seen you anchored close to the channel I would slow down because
I am aware of what impact my waves would make on your boat and comfort.
Perhaps I need to apologize for my ignorance of the subject.
Paul

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
bass,
I see your point. If the boat displaced enough, the resultant wave
would
pack a lot more energy. But as a scuba diver I also know that a boat's
wake
doesn't travel far beneath the surface. I have dove in 4 foot waves and
it's
calm 6 feet below the surface. Now when diving in the keys there was a
noticeable tidal surge that would shift you back and forth for I guess 6
to
12 inches at even 40 feet down and in this instance that was the bottom.
I
haven't dove in the Sanibel area so I can't comment on the state of
tidal
surges in the area. Bottom line, it seems to me that nature puts a
whole
lot more stress on the bridge than the average boat wake creates. It's
like
how many millimeters does the boat wakes damage the bridge per year?
Can't
they make it a few feet thicker so it'll last? Bass, maybe I'm ignorant
of
some facts here, but if so, I wonder how many other boats feel similar.
As
I'm under the Sanibel bridge in a 23 footer at planning speed, it's hard
to
imagine I'm hurting this bridge. IMHO
Paul

Now, I'm not a wave expert, but I DO know, that when I'm fishing, and
a boat comes through where I am fishing, at speed, and around the same
distances that one would be from bridge piers and/or abutements, that
my boat takes quite a hit from these waves. Sometimes uncomfortable.
Now I've never been in wind that bobbed my boat around like that. But,
let's assume that it does happen, that wind blown wakes can have that
impact. How often does that occur, compared to how often does it occur
from boats? Also, there is more to the equation than simple erosion of
the concrete, as you say, in a few millemeters per year. There is
impact, there is erosion of the founding soils, there are wet/dry
cycles, etc., etc.

Oddly enough, the old original 7 mile bridge in marathon is holding up much
better than it's replacement.

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message ...
bass,
Good point! I guess that I'd feel better about slowing down if I felt
there was a real need to. Perhaps we need education and research to show
exactly how much harm is caused. On the other hand if I were to approach the
bridge and seen you anchored close to the channel I would slow down because
I am aware of what impact my waves would make on your boat and comfort.
Perhaps I need to apologize for my ignorance of the subject.
Paul

No apology needed, Paul. Always nice to talk to someone who is open
minded, so they don't mind thinking and learning about something! I'm
sure there will be times when the roles will be reversed!

"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...
You still know less than ****. Well, you do know ****! Rust and
expansion
is a major item for rebar in concrete bridge construction. Actually I
know
a lot about rebar. My buddy, who we debate some construction issues, is
the
son of the owner of the last american owned rebar manufacturer, and
still
sells rebar, now that the foundry's have been sold.
Bill

And this somehow qualifies you as a concrete bridge expert??
Bwaaahaaa!!!!!!

I hate to burst your bubble, but reinforcing rust and expansion has
been an issue forever, and has been dealt with many, many times over.
Old hat. I began dealing with the issue while still in undergrad
school. Still dealing with it. May I suggest that you take a look at
ACI 318 for starters? You actually gain REAL knowledge there, more
than you'll get from a reinforcing salesman.

I hate to burst your bubble, but you mostly repeated what I said about rebar
and expansion.

If you follow ACI 318, and it's sub-publications, you'll find that
with the proper coverage, rust and expansion is NOT problem. That is
the ONLY reason that ACI specifies minimum coverage of ferrous types
of reinforcement.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...
Nothing better at a decent price. They epoxy coat now and that will
help.
Trouble is concrete is fantastic at supporting compression, but any
other
direction and get failures.
Bill

What about fiber reinforced concrete? What about composite-fiber type
reinforcement bars for concrete? What about using structural steel
members, embedded for tensile reinforcement?

repeat "Nothing better at a decent price"

All versions of the rebar. I do not see where the fiber reinforced concrete
is code for structural members. You people in Florida do not seem to know
how to build safe buildings. True example. After the last bad hurricane,
one of the towns was leveled, except for a couple of houses that looked like
there had not been a hurricane. Turns out they were Habitat for Humanity
built homes and were built to California earthquake standards. 16" stud
centers, bolted to foundation, hurricane straps on the roof trusses.
Florida did not require bolting, hurricane straps, and most are on 24" stud
centers.

What you don't seem to understand is that, following ACI guidelines
for minimal ferrous reinforcing coverage, you won't have a problem
with corrosion. THAT is why those guidelines are in place. Now, first
of all, I'm not in Florida. BUT, you are talking about something that
you don't know a thing about. By Florida Buidling Code, you must have
hurricane straps on trusses, and has been that way since the early
seventies. Bolting WHERE?? Walls are designed to resist forces of
wind, given the wind speed classification by the Fl. Building Code.
BUT, you almost always need to use studs at 16" c/c, to resist the
axial load of the roof, and or second floor. So, as usual, Bill, you
are dead wrong. In residential work, in CA, the easiest, and simplest
seismic fit you can do is to make shear walls, ie: use plywood in the
first few feet from each corner, screwed or nailed at 12" c/c on the
field, and 6" c/c edges. This works the same way as "x" bracing.

Oddly enough, the old original 7 mile bridge in marathon is holding up much
better than it's replacement.

Not odd at all. The original bridges were shameless copies of Roman viaducts
that are still here 2000 years later.