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On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:24:11 -0700, jps wrote:
In article , says... On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote: In article , says... If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat. You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity. You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position. Interesting. How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than another in being bumped up the list? They're more likely to have come by the opportunity honestly. Allow me to rephrase. What is the difference between being deserving or not deserving of the use of political influence to obtain any given result. Later, Tom |
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On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:07:21 -0700, jps wrote:
In article , says... On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:24:11 -0700, jps wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote: In article , says... If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat. You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity. You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position. Interesting. How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than another in being bumped up the list? They're more likely to have come by the opportunity honestly. Allow me to rephrase. What is the difference between being deserving or not deserving of the use of political influence to obtain any given result. There is no deserving. It's a fact of reality that people have influence. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's just a matter of degrees. You said the following to the original question. "You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position." I asked how you define more deserving. One more time - how do you define one individual being more deserving of influence than another? Later, Tom |
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On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:50:21 -0700, jps wrote:
In article , says... On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:07:21 -0700, jps wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:24:11 -0700, jps wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote: In article , says... If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat. You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity. You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position. Interesting. How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than another in being bumped up the list? They're more likely to have come by the opportunity honestly. Allow me to rephrase. What is the difference between being deserving or not deserving of the use of political influence to obtain any given result. There is no deserving. It's a fact of reality that people have influence. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's just a matter of degrees. You said the following to the original question. "You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position." I asked how you define more deserving. One more time - how do you define one individual being more deserving of influence than another? ~~ snippage ~~ Some people have access to influence through circumstance such as family (unmerited) and some people earn it on their own (merited). Fair enough. However, isn't merit a subjective value judgement? The individual making the value judgement has been subjected to influences that act as the determing factor and these factors are entirely subjective in terms of merit (value). For example, A is valuable to B because of connections, money or other influences. A askes B for a favour. B, due to the connections, fulfills the request at the expense of C who, as it happens, is also making a request, but does not have the same connections. Both A and C are equally qualified to perform the appointment being requested. It that a merit judgement or not? Later, Tom |
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On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 00:06:55 -0700, jps wrote:
In article , says... On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:50:21 -0700, jps wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:07:21 -0700, jps wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:24:11 -0700, jps wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote: In article , says... If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat. You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity. You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position. Interesting. How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than another in being bumped up the list? They're more likely to have come by the opportunity honestly. Allow me to rephrase. What is the difference between being deserving or not deserving of the use of political influence to obtain any given result. There is no deserving. It's a fact of reality that people have influence. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's just a matter of degrees. You said the following to the original question. "You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position." I asked how you define more deserving. One more time - how do you define one individual being more deserving of influence than another? ~~ snippage ~~ Some people have access to influence through circumstance such as family (unmerited) and some people earn it on their own (merited). Fair enough. However, isn't merit a subjective value judgement? The individual making the value judgement has been subjected to influences that act as the determing factor and these factors are entirely subjective in terms of merit (value). Merit, while subjective, is still pretty easily recognized. Really? D is pro life, E is pro choice - which view has more merit? :) For example, A is valuable to B because of connections, money or other influences. A askes B for a favour. B, due to the connections, fulfills the request at the expense of C who, as it happens, is also making a request, but does not have the same connections. Both A and C are equally qualified to perform the appointment being requested. A and C should be on an even playing field, unless it took one or the other extraordinary effort to reach the same plateau. What if it was A who made the extraordinary effort? Neither A nor C is less or more deserving. The interceding influence of B corrupts the equation. Hmmmm - not really. B has the power and makes the decision - B doesn't corrumpt anything. Let's try a different example. We both own the same outboard. Our outboards blow up in a hail of pieces and parts. Both are out of warranty by six months. I know the manufacturer's service representative who takes care of me by juggling the warranty data so that my engine is in warranty. You have to pay for your new powerhead. One situation, two questions. I can afford to pay for the new powerhead and your can't. Is my use of influence fair or unfair? I can't afford to pay for the new powerhead and you can. Is my use of influence fair or unfair? It that a merit judgement or not? You decide. Good question, but you made some assertiations and I'm trying to determine what your viewpoint is - your logic path if you will. So far, you haven't really said anything specific even when given specific examples. However, since you asked, in my world, the use of influence is more than appropriate because it can work to benefit others who don't have influence and, as it happens, it can, and often does, benefit me Such influence that I have can be magnified three or four fold when any given individual benefits from my help - at some point, that individual may be able to repay the favour and so on and so on and so on. Influence is actually a currency and in some ways, a much more effective currency than money. The skill is in balancing the ethical application of influence. How's that for an answer? :) The ball is in your court. Take care. Tom "The beatings will stop when morale improves." E. Teach, 1717 |
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm extract DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they could avoid serving in Vietnam. So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or cowardly? Just curious. Later, Tom In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this case, it would make you privledged. |
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