( OT ) Fortunate son
 

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

Just curious.

Later,

Tom

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:18:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

I suppose that would depend on whether you showed up for duty.

It would depend on whether you used some sort of special family connections to
jump to the head of a waiting list of 100,000, thereby in effect sending someone
else to the jungles of Southeast Asia in your place.

It would depend on whether you adhered to all the requirements of your
job--including showing up for the flight physical.

Of course, if you were, in fact, abusing certain recreational alkoloids that
might show up in a tox screen, you certainly would want to avail yourself of
your Fifth Amendment right protecting you from self-incrimination.

Parrot

Just curious.

Later,

Tom

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 16:57:41 -0700, Parrot
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:18:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

I suppose that would depend on whether you showed up for duty.

It would depend on whether you used some sort of special family connections to
jump to the head of a waiting list of 100,000, thereby in effect sending someone
else to the jungles of Southeast Asia in your place.

It would depend on whether you adhered to all the requirements of your
job--including showing up for the flight physical.

Of course, if you were, in fact, abusing certain recreational alkoloids that
might show up in a tox screen, you certainly would want to avail yourself of
your Fifth Amendment right protecting you from self-incrimination.

I appreciate your views, but all this doesn't answer the question.

Allow me to rephrase.

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

Later,

Tom

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 00:21:42 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 16:57:41 -0700, Parrot
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:18:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

I suppose that would depend on whether you showed up for duty.

It would depend on whether you used some sort of special family connections to
jump to the head of a waiting list of 100,000, thereby in effect sending someone
else to the jungles of Southeast Asia in your place.

It would depend on whether you adhered to all the requirements of your
job--including showing up for the flight physical.

Of course, if you were, in fact, abusing certain recreational alkoloids that
might show up in a tox screen, you certainly would want to avail yourself of
your Fifth Amendment right protecting you from self-incrimination.

I appreciate your views, but all this doesn't answer the question.

Allow me to rephrase.

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

I believe it would be an inappropriate use of that influence and those
connections.

Parrot

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:29:57 -0700, Parrot
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 00:21:42 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 16:57:41 -0700, Parrot
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:18:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

I suppose that would depend on whether you showed up for duty.

It would depend on whether you used some sort of special family connections to
jump to the head of a waiting list of 100,000, thereby in effect sending someone
else to the jungles of Southeast Asia in your place.

It would depend on whether you adhered to all the requirements of your
job--including showing up for the flight physical.

Of course, if you were, in fact, abusing certain recreational alkoloids that
might show up in a tox screen, you certainly would want to avail yourself of
your Fifth Amendment right protecting you from self-incrimination.

I appreciate your views, but all this doesn't answer the question.

Allow me to rephrase.

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

I believe it would be an inappropriate use of that influence and those
connections.

Fair enough.

Then, as a class, all the people appointed via this politicians
influence would be viewed as?

Later,

Tom

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:18:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

============================

Yes.

In article ,
says...

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity.
You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their
influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had
bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position.

Based on Bush's performance in the TANG, the favor was an extreme waste.

Fits right in with the rest of his silver spoon life.

jps

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity.
You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their
influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had
bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position.

Interesting.

How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than
another in being bumped up the list?

Later,

Tom

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:56:36 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:18:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

============================

Yes.

Yes what? :)

Later,

Tom

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity.
You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their
influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had
bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position.

Interesting.

How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than
another in being bumped up the list?


They're more likely to have come by the opportunity honestly.

That's never been the case with Uncurious George.

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:24:11 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity.
You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their
influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had
bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position.

Interesting.

How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than
another in being bumped up the list?

They're more likely to have come by the opportunity honestly.

Allow me to rephrase.

What is the difference between being deserving or not deserving of the
use of political influence to obtain any given result.



Later,

Tom

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:24:11 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity.
You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their
influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had
bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position.

Interesting.

How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than
another in being bumped up the list?

They're more likely to have come by the opportunity honestly.

Allow me to rephrase.

What is the difference between being deserving or not deserving of the
use of political influence to obtain any given result.

There is no deserving. It's a fact of reality that people have
influence.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It's just a matter of degrees.

jps

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:07:21 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:24:11 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity.
You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their
influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had
bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position.

Interesting.

How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than
another in being bumped up the list?

They're more likely to have come by the opportunity honestly.

Allow me to rephrase.

What is the difference between being deserving or not deserving of the
use of political influence to obtain any given result.

There is no deserving. It's a fact of reality that people have
influence.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It's just a matter of degrees.

You said the following to the original question.

"You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used
their influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you
had bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position."

I asked how you define more deserving.

One more time - how do you define one individual being more deserving
of influence than another?




Later,

Tom

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:07:21 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:24:11 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity.
You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their
influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had
bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position.

Interesting.

How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than
another in being bumped up the list?

They're more likely to have come by the opportunity honestly.

Allow me to rephrase.

What is the difference between being deserving or not deserving of the
use of political influence to obtain any given result.

There is no deserving. It's a fact of reality that people have
influence.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It's just a matter of degrees.

You said the following to the original question.

"You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used
their influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you
had bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position."

I asked how you define more deserving.

One more time - how do you define one individual being more deserving
of influence than another?

That's your construct, not mine. I didn't suggest one was more
deserving based on influence, I suggested that influence is an unfair
leg up that would likely bump someone off who had earned it on their
own. Perhaps I didn't explain it well enough.

Some people have access to influence through circumstance such as family
(unmerited) and some people earn it on their own (merited).

George had a leg up in every circumstance. He's a poster child for the
Peter Principle.

jps

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:50:21 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:07:21 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:24:11 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity.
You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their
influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had
bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position.

Interesting.

How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than
another in being bumped up the list?

They're more likely to have come by the opportunity honestly.

Allow me to rephrase.

What is the difference between being deserving or not deserving of the
use of political influence to obtain any given result.

There is no deserving. It's a fact of reality that people have
influence.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It's just a matter of degrees.

You said the following to the original question.

"You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used
their influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you
had bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position."

I asked how you define more deserving.

One more time - how do you define one individual being more deserving
of influence than another?

~~ snippage ~~

Some people have access to influence through circumstance such as family
(unmerited) and some people earn it on their own (merited).

Fair enough.

However, isn't merit a subjective value judgement? The individual
making the value judgement has been subjected to influences that act
as the determing factor and these factors are entirely subjective in
terms of merit (value).

For example, A is valuable to B because of connections, money or other
influences. A askes B for a favour. B, due to the connections,
fulfills the request at the expense of C who, as it happens, is also
making a request, but does not have the same connections. Both A and
C are equally qualified to perform the appointment being requested.

It that a merit judgement or not?


Later,

Tom

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:50:21 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:07:21 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:24:11 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity.
You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their
influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had
bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position.

Interesting.

How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than
another in being bumped up the list?

They're more likely to have come by the opportunity honestly.

Allow me to rephrase.

What is the difference between being deserving or not deserving of the
use of political influence to obtain any given result.

There is no deserving. It's a fact of reality that people have
influence.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It's just a matter of degrees.

You said the following to the original question.

"You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used
their influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you
had bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position."

I asked how you define more deserving.

One more time - how do you define one individual being more deserving
of influence than another?

~~ snippage ~~

Some people have access to influence through circumstance such as family
(unmerited) and some people earn it on their own (merited).

Fair enough.

However, isn't merit a subjective value judgement? The individual
making the value judgement has been subjected to influences that act
as the determing factor and these factors are entirely subjective in
terms of merit (value).

Merit, while subjective, is still pretty easily recognized.

For example, A is valuable to B because of connections, money or other
influences. A askes B for a favour. B, due to the connections,
fulfills the request at the expense of C who, as it happens, is also
making a request, but does not have the same connections. Both A and
C are equally qualified to perform the appointment being requested.

A and C should be on an even playing field, unless it took one or the
other extraordinary effort to reach the same plateau.

Neither A nor C is less or more deserving. The interceding influence of
B corrupts the equation.

It that a merit judgement or not?

You decide.

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 00:06:55 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:50:21 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:07:21 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:24:11 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity.
You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their
influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had
bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position.

Interesting.

How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than
another in being bumped up the list?

They're more likely to have come by the opportunity honestly.

Allow me to rephrase.

What is the difference between being deserving or not deserving of the
use of political influence to obtain any given result.

There is no deserving. It's a fact of reality that people have
influence.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It's just a matter of degrees.

You said the following to the original question.

"You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used
their influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you
had bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position."

I asked how you define more deserving.

One more time - how do you define one individual being more deserving
of influence than another?

~~ snippage ~~

Some people have access to influence through circumstance such as family
(unmerited) and some people earn it on their own (merited).

Fair enough.

However, isn't merit a subjective value judgement? The individual
making the value judgement has been subjected to influences that act
as the determing factor and these factors are entirely subjective in
terms of merit (value).

Merit, while subjective, is still pretty easily recognized.

Really?

D is pro life, E is pro choice - which view has more merit? :)

For example, A is valuable to B because of connections, money or other
influences. A askes B for a favour. B, due to the connections,
fulfills the request at the expense of C who, as it happens, is also
making a request, but does not have the same connections. Both A and
C are equally qualified to perform the appointment being requested.

A and C should be on an even playing field, unless it took one or the
other extraordinary effort to reach the same plateau.

What if it was A who made the extraordinary effort?

Neither A nor C is less or more deserving. The interceding influence of
B corrupts the equation.

Hmmmm - not really. B has the power and makes the decision - B
doesn't corrumpt anything.

Let's try a different example. We both own the same outboard. Our
outboards blow up in a hail of pieces and parts. Both are out of
warranty by six months. I know the manufacturer's service
representative who takes care of me by juggling the warranty data so
that my engine is in warranty. You have to pay for your new
powerhead.

One situation, two questions.

I can afford to pay for the new powerhead and your can't. Is my use
of influence fair or unfair?

I can't afford to pay for the new powerhead and you can. Is my use of
influence fair or unfair?

It that a merit judgement or not?

You decide.

Good question, but you made some assertiations and I'm trying to
determine what your viewpoint is - your logic path if you will. So
far, you haven't really said anything specific even when given
specific examples.

However, since you asked, in my world, the use of influence is more
than appropriate because it can work to benefit others who don't have
influence and, as it happens, it can, and often does, benefit me Such
influence that I have can be magnified three or four fold when any
given individual benefits from my help - at some point, that
individual may be able to repay the favour and so on and so on and so
on. Influence is actually a currency and in some ways, a much more
effective currency than money.

The skill is in balancing the ethical application of influence.

How's that for an answer? :)

The ball is in your court.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

Just curious.

Later,

Tom

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

Be honest - would you do it?

Later,

Tom

"Jim" wrote in message
...

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush
and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so
they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

How convenient that Barnes has suddenly discovered his conscience in time
for an election year. I wonder if the aide to former Senator Fulbright is
ashamed for getting a deferment for our country's 42nd President?

"Parrot" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:18:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...dq=/ff/story/0
001/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush
and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so
they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

I suppose that would depend on whether you showed up for duty.

It would depend on whether you used some sort of special family
connections to
jump to the head of a waiting list of 100,000, thereby in effect sending
someone
else to the jungles of Southeast Asia in your place.

It would depend on whether you adhered to all the requirements of your
job--including showing up for the flight physical.

Of course, if you were, in fact, abusing certain recreational alkoloids
that
might show up in a tox screen, you certainly would want to avail yourself
of
your Fifth Amendment right protecting you from self-incrimination.


Despite all of those allegations, and several stories appearing in the
Washington Post, LA Times, and NY Times alluding to those claims, it still
has never been proven that Clinton did any of that.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:24:11 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible
combat.

You should consider your blessings and make the most of the
opportunity.
You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used
their
influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had
bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position.

Interesting.

How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than
another in being bumped up the list?

They're more likely to have come by the opportunity honestly.

Allow me to rephrase.

What is the difference between being deserving or not deserving of the
use of political influence to obtain any given result.



It's just like the issue of money. To a liberal, the only people who deserve
it are the ones who don't have it.

So, let me answer for jps:
"The only people who deserve the use of political influence are those people
who have none."

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...q=/ff/story/00
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so
they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

Just curious.

Later,

Tom

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

You didn't have to be from Texas to be priviledged enough to be granted a
deferment from the military. You could have been from...oh...say...Arkansas.
And your uncle could have been a well-connected individual with a line to
the ear of someone at Senator Fulbright's office. That'd make you
priviledged, too, don't you think?

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...q=/ff/story/00
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard
so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

One can only hope that basskisser isn't allowed to procreate. If he is,
it's just proof that God *does* have a sense of humor.

"NOYB" wrote in message link.net...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...q=/ff/story/00
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard
so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

One can only hope that basskisser isn't allowed to procreate. If he is,
it's just proof that God *does* have a sense of humor.

Personal insults just show that you can't disagree with what I've stated.

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
...
On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...q=/ff/story/00
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is
``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National
Guard
so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

One can only hope that basskisser isn't allowed to procreate. If he is,
it's just proof that God *does* have a sense of humor.

Personal insults just show that you can't disagree with what I've stated.

LMAO!!!!!!!!! This coming from the king of personal insults.

"jim--" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
...
On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:



http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...q=/ff/story/00
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is
``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped
President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National
Guard
so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

One can only hope that basskisser isn't allowed to procreate. If he
is,
it's just proof that God *does* have a sense of humor.

Personal insults just show that you can't disagree with what I've
stated.

LMAO!!!!!!!!! This coming from the king of personal insults.

Yep.....typical of the socialist lefties.......they whine about others doing
the same thing they do........LMAO too

"jim--" wrote in message ...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
...
On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...q=/ff/story/00
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is
``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National
Guard
so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

One can only hope that basskisser isn't allowed to procreate. If he is,
it's just proof that God *does* have a sense of humor.

Personal insults just show that you can't disagree with what I've stated.

LMAO!!!!!!!!! This coming from the king of personal insults.

So, are you trying to say that you DON'T insult others here? Are you
also, then, saying that you don't LIE about others here, and spew
allegations about others, and present those, no matter how far fetched
as truth? Do you need me to give you some examples of any of the
above?

"P.Fritz" wrote in message ...
"jim--" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
...
On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:



http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...q=/ff/story/00
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is
``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped
President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National
Guard
so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

One can only hope that basskisser isn't allowed to procreate. If he
is,
it's just proof that God *does* have a sense of humor.

Personal insults just show that you can't disagree with what I've
stated.

LMAO!!!!!!!!! This coming from the king of personal insults.

Yep.....typical of the socialist lefties.......they whine about others doing
the same thing they do........LMAO too

Where did I whine, you ignorant putz? I simply stated a fact.

Basskisser,
What is wrong with you boy, is your FAS acting up again?


"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"jim--" wrote in message
...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
...
On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser)
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...q=/ff/story/00
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is
``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped
President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National
Guard
so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

One can only hope that basskisser isn't allowed to procreate. If he
is,
it's just proof that God *does* have a sense of humor.

Personal insults just show that you can't disagree with what I've
stated.

LMAO!!!!!!!!! This coming from the king of personal insults.

So, are you trying to say that you DON'T insult others here? Are you
also, then, saying that you don't LIE about others here, and spew
allegations about others, and present those, no matter how far fetched
as truth? Do you need me to give you some examples of any of the
above?

On 31 Aug 2004 14:25:35 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

"P.Fritz" wrote in message ...
"jim--" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
...
On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:



http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...q=/ff/story/00
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is
``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped
President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National
Guard
so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

One can only hope that basskisser isn't allowed to procreate. If he
is,
it's just proof that God *does* have a sense of humor.

Personal insults just show that you can't disagree with what I've
stated.

LMAO!!!!!!!!! This coming from the king of personal insults.

Yep.....typical of the socialist lefties.......they whine about others doing
the same thing they do........LMAO too

Where did I whine, you ignorant putz? I simply stated a fact.

Actually, you never answered the question.

To refresh your memory:

If you had the opportunity to keep your son out of the active combat
military to avoid Vietnam by jumping ahead of others and joining the
National Guard, would you?

Later,

Tom

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"jim--" wrote in message
...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
...
On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser)
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...q=/ff/story/00
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is
``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped
President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National
Guard
so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

One can only hope that basskisser isn't allowed to procreate. If he
is,
it's just proof that God *does* have a sense of humor.

Personal insults just show that you can't disagree with what I've
stated.

LMAO!!!!!!!!! This coming from the king of personal insults.

So, are you trying to say that you DON'T insult others here? Are you
also, then, saying that you don't LIE about others here, and spew
allegations about others, and present those, no matter how far fetched
as truth? Do you need me to give you some examples of any of the
above?

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message . ..
On 31 Aug 2004 14:25:35 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

"P.Fritz" wrote in message ...
"jim--" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
...
On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:



http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...q=/ff/story/00
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is
``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped
President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National
Guard
so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

One can only hope that basskisser isn't allowed to procreate. If he
is,
it's just proof that God *does* have a sense of humor.

Personal insults just show that you can't disagree with what I've
stated.

LMAO!!!!!!!!! This coming from the king of personal insults.

Yep.....typical of the socialist lefties.......they whine about others doing
the same thing they do........LMAO too

Where did I whine, you ignorant putz? I simply stated a fact.

Actually, you never answered the question.

To refresh your memory:

If you had the opportunity to keep your son out of the active combat
military to avoid Vietnam by jumping ahead of others and joining the
National Guard, would you?

Later,

Tom

What to **** does THAT question have to do with ME???? Fritz said that
I whined. I've never been asked the above question, and therefore have
never offered an answer.

On 1 Sep 2004 08:02:39 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message . ..
On 31 Aug 2004 14:25:35 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Actually, you never answered the question.

To refresh your memory:

If you had the opportunity to keep your son out of the active combat
military to avoid Vietnam by jumping ahead of others and joining the
National Guard, would you?

Later,

Tom

What to **** does THAT question have to do with ME???? Fritz said that
I whined. I've never been asked the above question, and therefore have
never offered an answer.

Allow me to establish the thread:

On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message . ..

Jim posted this:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

I posted this:

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

You posted this:

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

Be honest - would you do it?

Later,

Tom

Which you never answered and I'm still curious what it will be.

Check out the thread if you don't believe me.

By the way, there is no reason to use harsh language - it's just a
simple question.

Later,

Tom

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 1 Sep 2004 08:02:39 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On 31 Aug 2004 14:25:35 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Actually, you never answered the question.

To refresh your memory:

If you had the opportunity to keep your son out of the active combat
military to avoid Vietnam by jumping ahead of others and joining the
National Guard, would you?

Later,

Tom

What to **** does THAT question have to do with ME???? Fritz said that
I whined. I've never been asked the above question, and therefore have
never offered an answer.

Allow me to establish the thread:

On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..

Jim posted this:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...q=/ff/story/00
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard
so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

I posted this:

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

You posted this:

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

Be honest - would you do it?

Later,

Tom

Which you never answered and I'm still curious what it will be.

Check out the thread if you don't believe me.

By the way, there is no reason to use harsh language - it's just a
simple question.


bassie's neurons misfire every now and again. What begins as swearing,
quickly progresses to threats about snapping someone's neck or spitting in
their face.

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 17:13:35 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On 1 Sep 2004 08:02:39 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On 31 Aug 2004 14:25:35 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Actually, you never answered the question.

To refresh your memory:

If you had the opportunity to keep your son out of the active combat
military to avoid Vietnam by jumping ahead of others and joining the
National Guard, would you?

Later,

Tom

What to **** does THAT question have to do with ME???? Fritz said that
I whined. I've never been asked the above question, and therefore have
never offered an answer.

Allow me to establish the thread:

On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..

Jim posted this:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...q=/ff/story/00
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard
so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

I posted this:

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

You posted this:

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

Be honest - would you do it?

Later,

Tom

Which you never answered and I'm still curious what it will be.

Check out the thread if you don't believe me.

By the way, there is no reason to use harsh language - it's just a
simple question.

bassie's neurons misfire every now and again. What begins as swearing,
quickly progresses to threats about snapping someone's neck or spitting in
their face.

I find it curious that faced with a nexus of choice which requires
critical thinking going well beyond calling Bush a liar or Kerry a
fudgepacker or reposting articles to "prove" one point or another
logic fails. Of the three people who responded my questions, none
actually answered. When faced with a choice that requires an
examination of their own decision making as opposed to that they
theoretically despise, they fail to make the critical connections - to
wit: They would pretty much do the same thing when faced with the
same choice. That challenges their own image as self-rightgeous and
being "correct". Thus, avoidance.

The odd thing is, viewed critically, this election is about which
patrician silver spoon scion of a well-to-do family who has benefitted
from his family connections his whole life is a better leader. Oddly,
they are both Yale graduates, both Bonezers, etc, etc, etc. Oddly,
when you examine their potential policies, they are pretty much
identical. Oddly, one used a trick out to exit the Guard, the other
used a trick out to avoid more than four months of combat. Neither
one has a true understanding of what it takes to be a regular American
who pays taxes, pays bills, has health care issues, etc.

So whats the arguing about. War?

War is an existential state of humanity. Every day everyone enters
and exits a state of conflict. In some cases it's the killing kind of
conflict where soldiers kill people and break stuff. In others it's
calling Bush an idiot or Kerry a fudgepacker. In other cases it's
flipping the bird to the gal who just cut you off at an intersection.
Conflict is conflict. War happens - get over it. Whole societies
exist to enact war on each other - it's just the way it is.

And with that, I will close my participation in this thread because I
don't really care to continue it.

It ain't worth it.

So, I'm think of buying a '66 Luhrs sport boat for restoration.

Any advice? ;)

Later,

Tom

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 17:13:35 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
.. .
On 1 Sep 2004 08:02:39 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On 31 Aug 2004 14:25:35 -0700, (basskisser)
wrote:

Actually, you never answered the question.

To refresh your memory:

If you had the opportunity to keep your son out of the active combat
military to avoid Vietnam by jumping ahead of others and joining the
National Guard, would you?

Later,

Tom

What to **** does THAT question have to do with ME???? Fritz said that
I whined. I've never been asked the above question, and therefore have
never offered an answer.

Allow me to establish the thread:

On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..

Jim posted this:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:



http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...dq=/ff/story/0
0
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is
``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped
President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National
Guard
so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

I posted this:

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

You posted this:

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

Be honest - would you do it?

Later,

Tom

Which you never answered and I'm still curious what it will be.

Check out the thread if you don't believe me.

By the way, there is no reason to use harsh language - it's just a
simple question.

bassie's neurons misfire every now and again. What begins as swearing,
quickly progresses to threats about snapping someone's neck or spitting
in
their face.

I find it curious that faced with a nexus of choice which requires
critical thinking going well beyond calling Bush a liar or Kerry a
fudgepacker or reposting articles to "prove" one point or another
logic fails. Of the three people who responded my questions, none
actually answered. When faced with a choice that requires an
examination of their own decision making as opposed to that they
theoretically despise, they fail to make the critical connections - to
wit: They would pretty much do the same thing when faced with the
same choice. That challenges their own image as self-rightgeous and
being "correct". Thus, avoidance.

The odd thing is, viewed critically, this election is about which
patrician silver spoon scion of a well-to-do family who has benefitted
from his family connections his whole life is a better leader. Oddly,
they are both Yale graduates, both Bonezers, etc, etc, etc. Oddly,
when you examine their potential policies, they are pretty much
identical. Oddly, one used a trick out to exit the Guard, the other
used a trick out to avoid more than four months of combat. Neither
one has a true understanding of what it takes to be a regular American
who pays taxes, pays bills, has health care issues, etc.

So whats the arguing about. War?

War is an existential state of humanity. Every day everyone enters
and exits a state of conflict. In some cases it's the killing kind of
conflict where soldiers kill people and break stuff. In others it's
calling Bush an idiot or Kerry a fudgepacker. In other cases it's
flipping the bird to the gal who just cut you off at an intersection.
Conflict is conflict. War happens - get over it. Whole societies
exist to enact war on each other - it's just the way it is.

And with that, I will close my participation in this thread because I
don't really care to continue it.

It ain't worth it.

So, I'm think of buying a '66 Luhrs sport boat for restoration.

Any advice? ;)

Make sure you get counter-rotating props. Too much prop torque could have
you leaning to the left.

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 21:33:16 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .

~~ snippage ~~

So, I'm think of buying a '66 Luhrs sport boat for restoration.

Any advice? ;)

Make sure you get counter-rotating props. Too much prop torque could have
you leaning to the left.

LOL!!!!!

Or right for that matter.

Later,

Tom

"NOYB" wrote in message k.net...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 1 Sep 2004 08:02:39 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On 31 Aug 2004 14:25:35 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Actually, you never answered the question.

To refresh your memory:

If you had the opportunity to keep your son out of the active combat
military to avoid Vietnam by jumping ahead of others and joining the
National Guard, would you?

Later,

Tom

What to **** does THAT question have to do with ME???? Fritz said that
I whined. I've never been asked the above question, and therefore have
never offered an answer.

Allow me to establish the thread:

On 30 Aug 2004 07:16:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..

Jim posted this:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...q=/ff/story/00
01/20040828/1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President
Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard
so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

I posted this:

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

You posted this:

In the case of GWB, and other well to do people of Texas, in this
case, it would make you privledged.

What if it were your son and you could get him out of Vietnam this
way?

Be honest - would you do it?

Later,

Tom

Which you never answered and I'm still curious what it will be.

Check out the thread if you don't believe me.

By the way, there is no reason to use harsh language - it's just a
simple question.


bassie's neurons misfire every now and again. What begins as swearing,
quickly progresses to threats about snapping someone's neck or spitting in
their face.

Only when provoked. Sorry that you don't have the balls to stand up for YOURSELF.