http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

Just curious.

Later,

Tom

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:18:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

I suppose that would depend on whether you showed up for duty.

It would depend on whether you used some sort of special family connections to
jump to the head of a waiting list of 100,000, thereby in effect sending someone
else to the jungles of Southeast Asia in your place.

It would depend on whether you adhered to all the requirements of your
job--including showing up for the flight physical.

Of course, if you were, in fact, abusing certain recreational alkoloids that
might show up in a tox screen, you certainly would want to avail yourself of
your Fifth Amendment right protecting you from self-incrimination.

Parrot

Just curious.

Later,

Tom

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 16:57:41 -0700, Parrot
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:18:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

I suppose that would depend on whether you showed up for duty.

It would depend on whether you used some sort of special family connections to
jump to the head of a waiting list of 100,000, thereby in effect sending someone
else to the jungles of Southeast Asia in your place.

It would depend on whether you adhered to all the requirements of your
job--including showing up for the flight physical.

Of course, if you were, in fact, abusing certain recreational alkoloids that
might show up in a tox screen, you certainly would want to avail yourself of
your Fifth Amendment right protecting you from self-incrimination.

I appreciate your views, but all this doesn't answer the question.

Allow me to rephrase.

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

Later,

Tom

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 00:21:42 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 16:57:41 -0700, Parrot
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:18:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

I suppose that would depend on whether you showed up for duty.

It would depend on whether you used some sort of special family connections to
jump to the head of a waiting list of 100,000, thereby in effect sending someone
else to the jungles of Southeast Asia in your place.

It would depend on whether you adhered to all the requirements of your
job--including showing up for the flight physical.

Of course, if you were, in fact, abusing certain recreational alkoloids that
might show up in a tox screen, you certainly would want to avail yourself of
your Fifth Amendment right protecting you from self-incrimination.

I appreciate your views, but all this doesn't answer the question.

Allow me to rephrase.

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

I believe it would be an inappropriate use of that influence and those
connections.

Parrot

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:29:57 -0700, Parrot
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 00:21:42 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 16:57:41 -0700, Parrot
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:18:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...1349707631.htm

extract


DALLAS (AP) - Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is ``more
ashamed at myself than I've ever been'' because he helped President Bush and
the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they
could avoid serving in Vietnam.

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

I suppose that would depend on whether you showed up for duty.

It would depend on whether you used some sort of special family connections to
jump to the head of a waiting list of 100,000, thereby in effect sending someone
else to the jungles of Southeast Asia in your place.

It would depend on whether you adhered to all the requirements of your
job--including showing up for the flight physical.

Of course, if you were, in fact, abusing certain recreational alkoloids that
might show up in a tox screen, you certainly would want to avail yourself of
your Fifth Amendment right protecting you from self-incrimination.

I appreciate your views, but all this doesn't answer the question.

Allow me to rephrase.

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

I believe it would be an inappropriate use of that influence and those
connections.

Fair enough.

Then, as a class, all the people appointed via this politicians
influence would be viewed as?

Later,

Tom

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:18:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

============================

Yes.

In article ,
says...

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity.
You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their
influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had
bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position.

Based on Bush's performance in the TANG, the favor was an extreme waste.

Fits right in with the rest of his silver spoon life.

jps

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:26:53 -0700, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

If I had been a constituent of this individual and had the necessary
influence, how would you view the use of that influence to jump over
the list to join the National Guard in order to avoid possible combat.

You should consider your blessings and make the most of the opportunity.
You certainly should not bring shame on yourself or those who used their
influence for such an extreme favor, especially knowing that you had
bumped someone off who was likely more deserving of the position.

Interesting.

How would you describe one person as being "more deserving" than
another in being bumped up the list?

Later,

Tom

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:56:36 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:18:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

So if I were somebody who could have joined the National Guard to
avoid combat status does that make me smart or stupid, brave or
cowardly?

============================

Yes.

Yes what? :)

Later,

Tom