You want to pay high prices while everyone else pays low prices? Go
ahead and be a Wal-Martyr if you want.

Your statement illustrates the problem:
For most consumers, the only decision to make is *price.*

If Osama Bin Ladin figured out how to supply new, HDTV flat screen televisions
to the US market for $129 a copy- millions of people would line up to buy them
and use "low price, free market," defenses for an anti-American decision.

Keep on giving your paycheck to WalMart.
When we finally arrive at where they are tyring to take us, you'll wonder how
the heck we ever got there. And where did that "low price" go, anyway?

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
As I stated previously, you don't seem capable of thinking abstractly.
Wal-Mart is deciding where you will shop. Think it through. Think of all
the stores that close because of Wal-Mart. Think of all the American
workers out of a decent job because of Wal-Mart. Think of the varieties
of selection diminished because of Wal-Mart.

Actually I have access to a wider variety of merchandise
today than I could ever possibly need. Wal-Mart sells
discount goods and this only makes up a small portion
of the overall consumer market. I go there when they
have something that I need. That only happens a few
times a year.

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...
Either do it our way, or we go to your competition,
the XYZ soap company, and shut you out of the market completely."
Not true at all. There are plenty of other stores to sell their
goods. I buy all of my soap and detergent at the local
grocery store. I don't make a separate trip to Wal-Mart.


Wal-mart forces customers to shop only there through the fact that by
sheer size (ignore the pressure they apply to manufacturers that I
mentioned above for the moment) they can and do run any other
competition in a town out, leaving no option.
Not true. I have more stores to shop at than I could ever
visit. This includes two super Wal-Marts and two Sam's Clubs
within 10 miles. I just don't go there all that often, even
though I do have a Sam's Club membership.

Chuck,
I agree with you. I try to give my business to the small business owner.
They are the ones who pioneered to make this country what it was. At the
present rate the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. We know what that
eventually leads to. Government should represent the people as a whole
rather than the rich political special interest groups. Enough said.
Paul

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Our jobs are going overseas because
our politicians have no interest in fighting corporations from sending
jobs overseas.



Our jobs are going overseas faster than they would have partially because
WALMART is so super aggressive in their buying. When they want to carry
toasters, for example, they invite all the major manufacturers of toasters
down
to Arkansas and pit them against one another. During the last cost cutting
cycle, everybody who wanted to sell anyhing to WALMART *had* to go to
China for
labor or lose out.

WALMART doesn't tell a mfg that they *must* build in China- only that if
they
can't meet or beat the price of those who do they are, effectively, out of
business starting next month.

What will the next sacrifice be? Quality?
Or, when WALMART can no longer increase profits by forcing suppliers to
cheaper
sources of labor, will WALMART raise prices? Will we soon be paying as
much as
we used to pay for a US built, item but buying stuff from China instead?

WALMART's vision for America is a place where a $9 an hour job, with no
benefits, is a *great* opportunity. They envision a country where obedient
workers volunteer
to work off the clock every week, and where all will shop a the "company
store."

In Walmart's world, there is no middle class. Unless $9 an hour, with a
few
extra hours thrown in unpaid every week, is going to be the new "middle
class."

In Walmart's World, there are some opportunities for better income. If
you're
willing to work 50-51 weeks a year, 12-18 hours a day, 6-7 days a week,
you can
eventually rise to "store manager" and approach 6-figures a year. :-(

One of the great hypocrisies of the WalMart culture is the great emphasis
on
quality "family" experiences. How many of the managers working 80 hours a
week
or more have any quality time left to spend with the family? How many of
the
people earing $9 an hour get to go home after work, rather than to the
second,part time job they need to pay basic living expenses?

Tex,
What you say is true, but isn't it also the American way to buy
American? If we buy foreign, won't we have to match the wages paid to
foreign workers to stay competitive. What kind of Texan would do well on a
staple diet of rice? What kind of boat could you afford with the
competitor's wages? It's nice to get the cheapest price, but what will it do
to America in the long run. I'll pay more to support my neighbor's job. I
hope he'll support mine.
Paul

"Tex Houston" wrote in message
...

"Just In Time" wrote in message
om...
Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!

Walmart has gotten too big and it uses its power to exert over us. No
one can blame Wal-Mart for being abusive afterall, it's us, the
consumers, who gave the power to them! We are irresponsible and greedy
because we want the cheapest prices! I have to admit that I am guilty
as well as I do shop occasionally at you know where! (but that's to
change from now on)
Jeff

I will buy from whomever I want to buy from and when I want too buy. I do
not let others dictate my preferences.

It is the American way.

Tex Houston

Don,
Well stated!
Paul

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Tex Houston" wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Ahh, but if you were capable of thinking abstractly, you would realize
that Wal-Mart in many ways *is* dictating your preferences.


I have no Wal*Mart preference but I will shop there when it is
convenient.
I just resent some individual with their own axe to grind trying to tell
me
where to shop. If I want to shop discount store I tend to shop at the
closest at the time.

Let the marketplace decide (Economics 101?).

Tex



Except in this case, it isn't the marketplace deciding. Wal-mart forces
manufacturers to meet their specs. "We will *ONLY* carry laundry soap
packaged in 410 gram plastic buckets shipped as pallets 4 layers high,
and we will only pay $X.YY per unit for it - No, we don't care that your
cardboard box packaging at 413 grams per unit is more cost-effective or
environmentally freindly. No, we don't care that the customer WANTS the
413 gram box, and that you can give it to us for a third of the cost of
the 410 gram tub. Either do it our way, or we go to your competition,
the XYZ soap company, and shut you out of the market completely."

Wal-mart forces customers to shop only there through the fact that by
sheer size (ignore the pressure they apply to manufacturers that I
mentioned above for the moment) they can and do run any other
competition in a town out, leaving no option.

Wal-mart pays their employees next to nothing, and, simply fires all
employees and shuts the store down at the first hint of union activity
that could force them into paying a competitive wage in a store. Despite
the fact that I hate unions with a passion, this is *WRONG*. The pay
that a Wal-mart employee takes home isn't sufficient for them to shop
anyplace BUT Wal-mart, and there have been rumors (you decide yourself
about the fallacy or reality - to *ME* they're rumors. To someone else,
they may be "This happened to me") of Wal-mart employees being seen in
other stores one day coming in to work the next day to find they've been
given their walking papers. Never, of course, for any reason related to
being in the other store, but hey, who on this planet doesn't have
*SOMETHING* that can be used against them to legitimize their firing?

Tex, it isn't that Wal-mart is "bad" in and of itself. I'll argue
against anyone who claims it is. It's the fact that Wal-Mart is, much
like Microsoft, forcing consumers to give up choice through pressure
that can only be applied by someone with a monopoly or near-monopoly
position in the market. "I used to buy my tuna in 10 ounce cans, but all
you've got on the shelf are 8 ounce cans at half again the price. When
are you going to get the regular cans back in? We're not. Buy what we
sell, or suffer with nothing." The worst part is, in MANY MANY MANY
places, that's exactly what the customer *MUST* do: Wal-mart has driven
all competition out of town, and the only place to shop is there. Which
is exactly what their operating goal is: Shut down anything that looks
like competition, either indirectly, through their massive size and
attendant ability to almost literally give merchandise away until
there's noplace left in town for customers to turn to (the "company
store in a company town" concept) or they outright buy up and shut down
any competition that doesn't fold from the first method.

Wal-mart as a concept is great. Wal-mart as a reality is the death-knell
for a town's economy. Don't take my word for it - look around and see
how many towns that have had a Wal-mart move in are losing their other
retailers in numbers that are hard to believe.

No, Tex, it isn't about letting the marketplace decide. It's about
keeping the marketplace from being decided for you by the corporate
power that is Wal-mart.

--
Don Bruder - --- Preferred Email - SpamAssassinated.
Hate SPAM? See http://www.spamassassin.org for some seriously great
info.
I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose Free Will! - N. Peart
Fly trap info pages:
http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/Horses/FlyTrap/index.html

Gene,
Exactly right. We complain about our corporation's short term obsession
but if we, as consumers , only look at the price, we'll put ourselves out of
business as a nation of independent business people. Maybe it's an
atmosphere of greed rather than solidarity.
Paul

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On 27 Nov 2003 21:55:06 -0800, (Just In Time)
wrote:

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!


I've pretty much stopped buying from wally-world. I think everybody
should stop and examine what these mega chains do to the economy.
This is all about buying quality-challenged stuff dirt cheap and the
net result is settling for less that"better," sending most of you hard
earned cash overseas, and putting a lot of the smaller service
oriented Ma&Pa's out of business.

When you can't find a chandlery or tackle shop, you'll see what I
mean. Try asking your local wally-world trained barcode scanner
associate where and how to use 5200 or what type of rig to use for
yellow-fin. You'll glimpse a snapshot of the future.

We, as Americans, can really do better for ourselves.

Chuck,
Correct, after they corner the market, they can charge what ever they
like, they'll be no more competitors left.
Paul

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
You want to pay high prices while everyone else pays low prices? Go
ahead and be a Wal-Martyr if you want.

Your statement illustrates the problem:
For most consumers, the only decision to make is *price.*

If Osama Bin Ladin figured out how to supply new, HDTV flat screen
televisions
to the US market for $129 a copy- millions of people would line up to buy
them
and use "low price, free market," defenses for an anti-American decision.

Keep on giving your paycheck to WalMart.
When we finally arrive at where they are tyring to take us, you'll wonder
how
the heck we ever got there. And where did that "low price" go, anyway?

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Tex Houston wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Ahh, but if you were capable of thinking abstractly, you would realize
that Wal-Mart in many ways *is* dictating your preferences.


I have no Wal*Mart preference but I will shop there when it is
convenient.
I just resent some individual with their own axe to grind trying to tell
me
where to shop. If I want to shop discount store I tend to shop at the
closest at the time.

Let the marketplace decide (Economics 101?).

Tex



As I stated previously, you don't seem capable of thinking abstractly.
Wal-Mart is deciding where you will shop. Think it through. Think of all
the stores that close because of Wal-Mart. Think of all the American
workers out of a decent job because of Wal-Mart. Think of the varieties
of selection diminished because of Wal-Mart.

Got it?


Nope and you don't either. Within 5 miles of my home are at least 20
clothing stores, 5 drug stores, 9 Ace and Tru-Value Hardware stores, 3
nurseries, 7 grocery stores, 4 book sellers, 3 shoe stores, 2 mega toy
stores, 2 super-mega electronics stores, countless gas stations, sundry
independent retailers and two Super Wal-Marts.

I have lived in 6 large and small towns in the last 15 years. In each case
when Wal-Mart/Sam's Club, Costco, Home Depot or Lowe's came to town all the
small INEFFICIENT retails sang songs of woe. In every case, those retailers
who studies their markets and offered selection and service survived and
prospered. Those who had been lazy and grossly overcharging their customers
promptly went out of business; deservedly so.

Tell me again how Wal-Mart has diminished my shopping choices.

--
Dave Thompson

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...

Except in this case, it isn't the marketplace deciding. Wal-mart forces
manufacturers to meet their specs. "We will *ONLY* carry laundry soap
packaged in 410 gram plastic buckets shipped as pallets 4 layers high,
and we will only pay $X.YY per unit for it - No, we don't care that your
cardboard box packaging at 413 grams per unit is more cost-effective or
environmentally freindly. No, we don't care that the customer WANTS the
413 gram box, and that you can give it to us for a third of the cost of
the 410 gram tub. Either do it our way, or we go to your competition,
the XYZ soap company, and shut you out of the market completely."


Is it that you don't have a clue or do you have a personal axe to grind?

Sears in its power days, set detailed standards on merchandise to include
100% house branding. If you didn't want to manufacture to their specs, you
didn't do business with Sears.

It's truly very simple. If the customer wants the 413 gram box, they drive
past Wally World and show up at Loblaw's. WAIT! Hasn't that mega-chain run
Mom and Pop grocers out of business?

--
Dave Thompson