"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Tex Houston wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Ahh, but if you were capable of thinking abstractly, you would realize
that Wal-Mart in many ways *is* dictating your preferences.


I have no Wal*Mart preference but I will shop there when it is
convenient.
I just resent some individual with their own axe to grind trying to tell
me
where to shop. If I want to shop discount store I tend to shop at the
closest at the time.

Let the marketplace decide (Economics 101?).

Tex



As I stated previously, you don't seem capable of thinking abstractly.
Wal-Mart is deciding where you will shop. Think it through. Think of all
the stores that close because of Wal-Mart. Think of all the American
workers out of a decent job because of Wal-Mart. Think of the varieties
of selection diminished because of Wal-Mart.

Got it?


Nope and you don't either. Within 5 miles of my home are at least 20
clothing stores, 5 drug stores, 9 Ace and Tru-Value Hardware stores, 3
nurseries, 7 grocery stores, 4 book sellers, 3 shoe stores, 2 mega toy
stores, 2 super-mega electronics stores, countless gas stations, sundry
independent retailers and two Super Wal-Marts.

I have lived in 6 large and small towns in the last 15 years. In each case
when Wal-Mart/Sam's Club, Costco, Home Depot or Lowe's came to town all the
small INEFFICIENT retails sang songs of woe. In every case, those retailers
who studies their markets and offered selection and service survived and
prospered. Those who had been lazy and grossly overcharging their customers
promptly went out of business; deservedly so.

Tell me again how Wal-Mart has diminished my shopping choices.

--
Dave Thompson

In article ,
"Tex Houston" wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Ahh, but if you were capable of thinking abstractly, you would realize
that Wal-Mart in many ways *is* dictating your preferences.


I have no Wal*Mart preference but I will shop there when it is convenient.
I just resent some individual with their own axe to grind trying to tell me
where to shop. If I want to shop discount store I tend to shop at the
closest at the time.

Let the marketplace decide (Economics 101?).

Tex



Except in this case, it isn't the marketplace deciding. Wal-mart forces
manufacturers to meet their specs. "We will *ONLY* carry laundry soap
packaged in 410 gram plastic buckets shipped as pallets 4 layers high,
and we will only pay $X.YY per unit for it - No, we don't care that your
cardboard box packaging at 413 grams per unit is more cost-effective or
environmentally freindly. No, we don't care that the customer WANTS the
413 gram box, and that you can give it to us for a third of the cost of
the 410 gram tub. Either do it our way, or we go to your competition,
the XYZ soap company, and shut you out of the market completely."

Wal-mart forces customers to shop only there through the fact that by
sheer size (ignore the pressure they apply to manufacturers that I
mentioned above for the moment) they can and do run any other
competition in a town out, leaving no option.

Wal-mart pays their employees next to nothing, and, simply fires all
employees and shuts the store down at the first hint of union activity
that could force them into paying a competitive wage in a store. Despite
the fact that I hate unions with a passion, this is *WRONG*. The pay
that a Wal-mart employee takes home isn't sufficient for them to shop
anyplace BUT Wal-mart, and there have been rumors (you decide yourself
about the fallacy or reality - to *ME* they're rumors. To someone else,
they may be "This happened to me") of Wal-mart employees being seen in
other stores one day coming in to work the next day to find they've been
given their walking papers. Never, of course, for any reason related to
being in the other store, but hey, who on this planet doesn't have
*SOMETHING* that can be used against them to legitimize their firing?

Tex, it isn't that Wal-mart is "bad" in and of itself. I'll argue
against anyone who claims it is. It's the fact that Wal-Mart is, much
like Microsoft, forcing consumers to give up choice through pressure
that can only be applied by someone with a monopoly or near-monopoly
position in the market. "I used to buy my tuna in 10 ounce cans, but all
you've got on the shelf are 8 ounce cans at half again the price. When
are you going to get the regular cans back in? We're not. Buy what we
sell, or suffer with nothing." The worst part is, in MANY MANY MANY
places, that's exactly what the customer *MUST* do: Wal-mart has driven
all competition out of town, and the only place to shop is there. Which
is exactly what their operating goal is: Shut down anything that looks
like competition, either indirectly, through their massive size and
attendant ability to almost literally give merchandise away until
there's noplace left in town for customers to turn to (the "company
store in a company town" concept) or they outright buy up and shut down
any competition that doesn't fold from the first method.

Wal-mart as a concept is great. Wal-mart as a reality is the death-knell
for a town's economy. Don't take my word for it - look around and see
how many towns that have had a Wal-mart move in are losing their other
retailers in numbers that are hard to believe.

No, Tex, it isn't about letting the marketplace decide. It's about
keeping the marketplace from being decided for you by the corporate
power that is Wal-mart.

--
Don Bruder - --- Preferred Email - SpamAssassinated.
Hate SPAM? See http://www.spamassassin.org for some seriously great info.
I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose Free Will! - N. Peart
Fly trap info pages: http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/Horses/FlyTrap/index.html

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...
Either do it our way, or we go to your competition,
the XYZ soap company, and shut you out of the market completely."
Not true at all. There are plenty of other stores to sell their
goods. I buy all of my soap and detergent at the local
grocery store. I don't make a separate trip to Wal-Mart.


Wal-mart forces customers to shop only there through the fact that by
sheer size (ignore the pressure they apply to manufacturers that I
mentioned above for the moment) they can and do run any other
competition in a town out, leaving no option.
Not true. I have more stores to shop at than I could ever
visit. This includes two super Wal-Marts and two Sam's Clubs
within 10 miles. I just don't go there all that often, even
though I do have a Sam's Club membership.

Don,
Well stated!
Paul

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Tex Houston" wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Ahh, but if you were capable of thinking abstractly, you would realize
that Wal-Mart in many ways *is* dictating your preferences.


I have no Wal*Mart preference but I will shop there when it is
convenient.
I just resent some individual with their own axe to grind trying to tell
me
where to shop. If I want to shop discount store I tend to shop at the
closest at the time.

Let the marketplace decide (Economics 101?).

Tex



Except in this case, it isn't the marketplace deciding. Wal-mart forces
manufacturers to meet their specs. "We will *ONLY* carry laundry soap
packaged in 410 gram plastic buckets shipped as pallets 4 layers high,
and we will only pay $X.YY per unit for it - No, we don't care that your
cardboard box packaging at 413 grams per unit is more cost-effective or
environmentally freindly. No, we don't care that the customer WANTS the
413 gram box, and that you can give it to us for a third of the cost of
the 410 gram tub. Either do it our way, or we go to your competition,
the XYZ soap company, and shut you out of the market completely."

Wal-mart forces customers to shop only there through the fact that by
sheer size (ignore the pressure they apply to manufacturers that I
mentioned above for the moment) they can and do run any other
competition in a town out, leaving no option.

Wal-mart pays their employees next to nothing, and, simply fires all
employees and shuts the store down at the first hint of union activity
that could force them into paying a competitive wage in a store. Despite
the fact that I hate unions with a passion, this is *WRONG*. The pay
that a Wal-mart employee takes home isn't sufficient for them to shop
anyplace BUT Wal-mart, and there have been rumors (you decide yourself
about the fallacy or reality - to *ME* they're rumors. To someone else,
they may be "This happened to me") of Wal-mart employees being seen in
other stores one day coming in to work the next day to find they've been
given their walking papers. Never, of course, for any reason related to
being in the other store, but hey, who on this planet doesn't have
*SOMETHING* that can be used against them to legitimize their firing?

Tex, it isn't that Wal-mart is "bad" in and of itself. I'll argue
against anyone who claims it is. It's the fact that Wal-Mart is, much
like Microsoft, forcing consumers to give up choice through pressure
that can only be applied by someone with a monopoly or near-monopoly
position in the market. "I used to buy my tuna in 10 ounce cans, but all
you've got on the shelf are 8 ounce cans at half again the price. When
are you going to get the regular cans back in? We're not. Buy what we
sell, or suffer with nothing." The worst part is, in MANY MANY MANY
places, that's exactly what the customer *MUST* do: Wal-mart has driven
all competition out of town, and the only place to shop is there. Which
is exactly what their operating goal is: Shut down anything that looks
like competition, either indirectly, through their massive size and
attendant ability to almost literally give merchandise away until
there's noplace left in town for customers to turn to (the "company
store in a company town" concept) or they outright buy up and shut down
any competition that doesn't fold from the first method.

Wal-mart as a concept is great. Wal-mart as a reality is the death-knell
for a town's economy. Don't take my word for it - look around and see
how many towns that have had a Wal-mart move in are losing their other
retailers in numbers that are hard to believe.

No, Tex, it isn't about letting the marketplace decide. It's about
keeping the marketplace from being decided for you by the corporate
power that is Wal-mart.

--
Don Bruder - --- Preferred Email - SpamAssassinated.
Hate SPAM? See http://www.spamassassin.org for some seriously great
info.
I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose Free Will! - N. Peart
Fly trap info pages:
http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/Horses/FlyTrap/index.html

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...

Except in this case, it isn't the marketplace deciding. Wal-mart forces
manufacturers to meet their specs. "We will *ONLY* carry laundry soap
packaged in 410 gram plastic buckets shipped as pallets 4 layers high,
and we will only pay $X.YY per unit for it - No, we don't care that your
cardboard box packaging at 413 grams per unit is more cost-effective or
environmentally freindly. No, we don't care that the customer WANTS the
413 gram box, and that you can give it to us for a third of the cost of
the 410 gram tub. Either do it our way, or we go to your competition,
the XYZ soap company, and shut you out of the market completely."


Is it that you don't have a clue or do you have a personal axe to grind?

Sears in its power days, set detailed standards on merchandise to include
100% house branding. If you didn't want to manufacture to their specs, you
didn't do business with Sears.

It's truly very simple. If the customer wants the 413 gram box, they drive
past Wally World and show up at Loblaw's. WAIT! Hasn't that mega-chain run
Mom and Pop grocers out of business?

--
Dave Thompson

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...


Wal-mart forces customers to shop only there through the fact that by
sheer size (ignore the pressure they apply to manufacturers that I
mentioned above for the moment) they can and do run any other
competition in a town out, leaving no option.


They don't force the customer to do ANYTHING. Customers get what they
deserve. They're lazy, so they never figure out that they can get any
product they want, anywhere they want, as cheaply as they can at Wal Mart.

1) Big ticket items: How often does one family buy a TV? So, they buy a $250
Sanyo TV at Wal Mart, and probably never discover that they could've had the
same set at Circuit City for the same price or better. Wal Mart may have
more stores, but they actually buy less TVs than Best Buy, Sears or Circuit
City. The customer doesn't shop for a TV that often, and less "buying
cycles" means there's almost no possibility that they'll discover they
could've gotten a better deal.

2) Groceries: In fact, if customers did what newspaper reporters sometimes
do, and compare prices for SPECIFIC AND EQUIVALENT ITEMS OVER SEVERAL
SHOPPING TRIPS, they'd find that they actually spend the same or less at
traditional supermarkets. But, customers don't do this. They're sheep. They
believe whatever they're told, and WM tells them everything's cheaper there.
What's pathetic is that with groceries, you have an opportunity every single
week to see that you're being snookered. If your idea of a bargain is saving
82 cents on a $150 cart of groceries, and waiting 40 minutes in line to pay
for it, then you're a shmuck, your time is worthless, and you deserve to
spend half your afternoon at WM. This is especially true if you make the
same mistake 52 or more times per year.

3) Clothing: Who the hell knows? So much of it's proprietary to WM that you
can't comparison shop. But, if you can't tell the difference between a $12
Lands End T-shirt that lasts for 8 years and still looks good, and a $2.00
rag from WM, then you should buy the rag. As far as equivalent brands, I
just shopped for jeans and found Sears to be a buck cheaper than WM for the
exact same product. If WM had my size, I would've bought it, rather than
guzzle a gallon of gas going to Sears, but it doesn't change the fact that
the jeans would've have been cheaper somewhere else.

Tex,
What you say is true, but isn't it also the American way to buy
American? If we buy foreign, won't we have to match the wages paid to
foreign workers to stay competitive. What kind of Texan would do well on a
staple diet of rice? What kind of boat could you afford with the
competitor's wages? It's nice to get the cheapest price, but what will it do
to America in the long run. I'll pay more to support my neighbor's job. I
hope he'll support mine.
Paul

"Tex Houston" wrote in message
...

"Just In Time" wrote in message
om...
Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!

Walmart has gotten too big and it uses its power to exert over us. No
one can blame Wal-Mart for being abusive afterall, it's us, the
consumers, who gave the power to them! We are irresponsible and greedy
because we want the cheapest prices! I have to admit that I am guilty
as well as I do shop occasionally at you know where! (but that's to
change from now on)
Jeff

I will buy from whomever I want to buy from and when I want too buy. I do
not let others dictate my preferences.

It is the American way.

Tex Houston

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...

What you say is true, but isn't it also the American way to buy
American? If we buy foreign, won't we have to match the wages paid to
foreign workers to stay competitive. What kind of Texan would do well on a
staple diet of rice? What kind of boat could you afford with the
competitor's wages? It's nice to get the cheapest price, but what will it
do
to America in the long run. I'll pay more to support my neighbor's job. I
hope he'll support mine.
Paul

Go through your house. Toss everything that is not all 100% US made. Write
back and tell us what you have left. Even a lot of parts you have on your
"American" Chevy or Ford were made out of the US. Don't forget those.

Steve

If you consider the quality of these employees, you would find them at the local
Taco Bell or on the street if they didn't work there. We're not talking about
skilled labor. These are generally kids who only show up for a paycheck.

Dan


Harry Krause wrote:

Roy wrote:


Well if Wal Mart is continually rolling back prices everyday as they
claim to be, then, why is nothing being given away for free yet?

Inquiring minds want to know!
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.


Their employees are almost free...

Dan Krueger wrote:

If you consider the quality of these employees, you would find them at the local
Taco Bell or on the street if they didn't work there. We're not talking about
skilled labor. These are generally kids who only show up for a paycheck.

Dan


Harry Krause wrote:

Roy wrote:


Well if Wal Mart is continually rolling back prices everyday as they
claim to be, then, why is nothing being given away for free yet?

Inquiring minds want to know!
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.


Their employees are almost free...



Most of the folks who work at Wal-Mart are not kids. Many of them depend
upon that little Wal-Mart paycheck. These people are being exploited by
Wal-Mart, as is just about everyone else.


--
Email sent to is never read.