BoatBanter.com - Views of Kerry

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- - Views of Kerry (https://www.boatbanter.com/general/21011-views-kerry.html)

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth was launched on May 4, 2004 at a press conference
at the National Press Club in Washington. Eighteen Navy combat veterans and
commanders went on the record opposing John Kerry's bid for the Presidency,
including the entire chain of command above Lt. Kerry in Vietnam, and men who
had fought at his side.

More than 250 Swift boat veterans have now signed an open letter to Senator
Kerry challenging his fitness to serve as commander-in-chief of America's armed
forces.

----------
*** Click thumbnail photos for individual video clips ***

----------

"We resent very deeply the false war crimes charges he made coming back from
Vietnam in 1971 and repeated in the book "Tour of Duty." We think those cast an
aspersion on all those living and dead, from our unit and other units in
Vietnam. We think that he knew he was lying when he made the charges, and we
think that they're unsupportable. We intend to bring the truth about that to
the American people.

We believe, based on our experience with him, that he is totally unfit to be
the Commander-in-Chief."

-- John O'Neill, spokesman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

..

"I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be Commander-in-Chief of the armed
forces of the United States. This is not a political issue. It is a matter of
his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust -- all absolute
tenets of command. His biography, 'Tour of Duty,' by Douglas Brinkley, is
replete with gross exaggerations, distortions of fact, contradictions and
slanderous lies. His contempt for the military and authority is evident by even
a most casual review of this biography. He arrived in-country with a strong
anti-Vietnam War bias and a self-serving determination to build a foundation
for his political future. He was aggressive, but vain and prone to impulsive
judgment, often with disregard for specific tactical assignments. He was a
'loose cannon.' In an abbreviated tour of four months and 12 days, and with his
specious medals secure, Lt.(jg) Kerry bugged out and began his infamous
betrayal of all United States forces in the Vietnam War. That included our
soldiers, our marines, our sailors, our coast guardsmen, our airmen, and our
POWs. His leadership within the so-called Vietnam Veterans Against the War and
testimony before Congress in 1971 charging us with unspeakable atrocities
remain an undocumented but nevertheless meticulous stain on the men and women
who honorably stayed the course. Senator Kerry is not fit for command."

-- Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann, USN (retired), chairman, Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth

..

"During Lt.(jg) Kerry's tour, he was under my command for two or three specific
operations, before his rapid exit. Trust, loyalty and judgment are the key,
operative words. His turncoat performance in 1971 in his grubby shirt and his
medal-tossing escapade, coupled with his slanderous lines in the recent book
portraying us that served, including all POWs and MIAs, as murderous war
criminals, I believe, will have a lasting effect on all military veterans and
their families.

Kerry would be described as devious, self-absorbing, manipulative, disdain for
authority, disruptive, but the most common phrase that you'd hear is 'requires
constant supervision.'"

-- Captain Charles Plumly, USN (retired)

..

"Thirty-five years ago, many of us fell silent when we came back to the stain
of sewage that Mr. Kerry had thrown on us, and all of our colleagues who served
over there. I don't intend to be silent today or ever again. Our young men and
women who are serving deserve no less."

-- Andrew Horne

..

"In my specific, personal experience in both coastal and river patrols over a
12-month period, I never once saw or heard anything remotely resembling the
atrocities described by Senator Kerry. If I had, it would have been my
obligation to report them in writing to a higher authority, and I would
certainly have done that. If Senator Kerry actually witnessed or participated
in these atrocities or, as he described them, 'war crimes,' he was obligated to
report them. That he did not until later when it suited his political purposes
strikes me as opportunism of the worst kind. That he would malign my service
and that of his fellow sailors with no regard for the truth makes him totally
unqualified to serve as Commander-in-Chief."

-- Jeffrey Wainscott

..

"I signed that letter because I, too felt a deep sense of betrayal that someone
who took the same oath of loyalty as I did as an officer in the United States
Navy would abandon his group here (points to group photo) to join this group
here (points to VVAW protest photo), and come home and attempt to rally the
American public against the effort that this group was so valiantly pursuing.

It is a fact that in the entire Vietnam War we did not lose one major battle.
We lost the war at home... and at home, John Kerry was the Field General."

-- Robert Elder

..

"My daughters and my wife have read portions of the book 'Tour of Duty.' They
wanted to know if I took part in the atrocities described. I do not believe the
things that are described happened.

Let me give you an example. In Brinkley's book, on pages 170 to 171, about
something called the 'Bo De massacre' on November 24th of 1968... In Kerry's
description of the engagement, first he claimed there were 17 servicemen that
were wounded. Three of us were wounded. I was the first..."

-- Joseph Ponder

..

"While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions,
and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant.
The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that
they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a
wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand
that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that
Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent
shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably
said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that
scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.

Lt.(jg) Kerry was allowed to return to the good old USA after 4 months and a
few days in-country, and then he proceeded to betray his former shipmates,
calling them criminals who were committing atrocities. Today we are here to
tell you that just the opposite is true. Our rules of engagement were quite
strict, and the officers and men of Swift often did not even return fire when
they were under fire if there was a possibility that innocent people --
fishermen, in a lot of cases -- might be hurt or injured. The rules and the
good intentions of the men increased the possibility that we might take
friendly casualties."

-- Commander Grant Hibbard, USN (retired)

..

"Lt. Kerry returned home from the war to make some outrageous statements and
allegations... numerous criminal acts in violation of the law of war were cited
by Kerry, disparaging those who had fought with honor in that conflict. Had war
crimes been committed by US forces in Vietnam? Yes, but such acts were few and
far between. Yet Lt. Kerry gave numerous speeches and testimony before Congress
inappropriately leading his audiences to believe that what was only an anomaly
in the conduct of America's fighting men was an epidemic. Furthermore, he
suggested that they were being encouraged to violated the law of war by those
within the chain of command.

Very specific orders, on file at the Vietnam archives at Texas Tech University,
were issued by my father [Admiral Elmo Zumwalt] and others in his chain of
command instructing subordinates to act responsibly in preserving the life and
property of Vietnamese civilians."

-- Lt. Col. James Zumwalt, USMC (retired)

..

"We look at Vietnam... after all these years it is still languishing in
isolated poverty and helplessness and tyranny. This is John Kerry's legacy. I
deeply resent John Kerry's using his Swift boat experience, and his betrayal of
those who fought there as a stepping-stone to his political ambitions."

-- Bernard Wolff

..

"In a whole year that I spent patrolling, I didn't see anything like a war
crime, an atrocity, anything like that. Time and again I saw American fighting
men put themselves in graver danger trying to avoid... collateral damage.

When John Kerry returned to the country, he was sworn in front of Congress. And
then he told my family -- my parents, my sister, my brother, my neighbors -- he
told everyone I knew and everyone I'd ever know that I and my comrades had
committed unspeakable atrocities."

-- David Wallace

..

"I served with these guys. I went on missions with them, and these men served
honorably. Up and down the chain of command there was no acquiescence to
atrocities. It was not condoned, it did not happen, and it was not reported to
me verbally or in writing by any of these men including Lt.(jg) Kerry.

In 1971, '72, for almost 18 months, he stood before the television audiences
and claimed that the 500,000 men and women in Vietnam, and in combat, were all
villains -- there were no heroes. In 2004, one hero from the Vietnam War has
appeared, running for President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief. It
just galls one to think about it."

-- Captain George Elliott, USN (retired)

..

"During the Vietnam War I was Task Force Commander at An Thoi, and my tour of
duty was 13 months, from the end of Tet to the beginning of the Vietnamization
of the Navy units.

Now when I went there right after Tet, I was restricted in my movements. I
couldn't go much of anyplace because the Vietcong controlled most of the area.
When I left, I could go anywhere I wanted, just about. Commerce was booming,
the buses were running, trucks were going, the waterways were filled with
sampans with goods going to market, but yet in Kerry's biography he says that
our operations were a complete failure. He also mentions a formal conference
with me, to try to get more air cover and so on. That conference never
happened..."

-- Captain Adrian Lonsdale, USCG (retired)

..

"I was in An Thoi from June of '68 to June of '69, covering the whole period
that John Kerry was there. I operated in every river, in every canal, and every
off-shore patrol area in the 4th Corps area, from Cambodia all the way around
to the Bo De River. I never saw, even heard of all of these so-called
atrocities and things that we were supposed to have done.

This is not true. We're not standing for it. We want to set the record
straight."

-- William Shumadine

..

"In 1971, when John Kerry spoke out to America, labeling all Vietnam veterans
as thugs and murderers, I was shocked and almost brought to my knees, because
even though I had served at the same time and same unit, I had never witnessed
or participated in any of the events that the Senator had accused us of. I
strongly believe that the statements made by the Senator were not only false
and inaccurate, but extremely harmful to the United States' efforts in
Southeast Asia and the rest of the world. Tragically, some veterans, scorned by
the antiwar movement and their allies, retreated to a life of despair and
suicide. Two of my crewmates were among them. For that there is no forgiveness.
"

-- Richard O'Mara

..

"My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty
in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved
with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know
is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him
and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made
indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in
jeopardy... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you
expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"

-- Steven Gardner

..

"I served in Vietnam as a boat officer from June of 1968 to July of 1969. My
service was three months in Coastal Division 13 out of Cat Lo, and nine months
with Coastal Division 11 based in An Thoi. John Kerry was in An Thoi the same
time I was. I'm here today to express the anger I have harbored for over 33
years, about being accused with my fellow shipmates of war atrocities.

All I can say is when I leave here today, I'm going down to the Wall to tell my
two crew members it's not true, and that they and the other 49 Swiftees who are
on the Wall were then and are still now the best."

-- Robert Brant

..

"I never saw, heard of, or participated in any Swift boat crews killing cattle,
poisoning crops, or raping and killing civilians as charged by John Kerry, both
in his book and in public statements. Since we both operated at the same time,
in the same general area, and on the same missions under the same commanders,
it is hard to believe his claims of atrocities and poor planning of Sea Lord
missions.

I signed this letter because I feel that he used Swift boat sailors to proclaim
his antiwar statements after the war, and now he uses the same Swift boat
sailors to support his claims of being a war hero. He cannot have it both ways,
and we are here to ask for full disclosure of the proof of his claims."

-- James Steffes

..

Copyright © 2004 Swift Boat Veterans for Truth
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective
owners. Powered By GeekLog
Created this page in 0.10 seconds

Interesting that the entire chain of command above Lt. Kerry in Vietnam
should suddenly oppose him. It was the chain of command who nominated him
for and approved the medals.

See

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

"RGrew176" wrote in message
...
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth was launched on May 4, 2004 at a press
conference
at the National Press Club in Washington. Eighteen Navy combat veterans
and
commanders went on the record opposing John Kerry's bid for the
Presidency,
including the entire chain of command above Lt. Kerry in Vietnam, and men
who
had fought at his side.

More than 250 Swift boat veterans have now signed an open letter to
Senator
Kerry challenging his fitness to serve as commander-in-chief of America's
armed
forces.

----------
*** Click thumbnail photos for individual video clips ***

----------

"We resent very deeply the false war crimes charges he made coming back
from
Vietnam in 1971 and repeated in the book "Tour of Duty." We think those
cast an
aspersion on all those living and dead, from our unit and other units in
Vietnam. We think that he knew he was lying when he made the charges, and
we
think that they're unsupportable. We intend to bring the truth about that
to
the American people.

We believe, based on our experience with him, that he is totally unfit to
be
the Commander-in-Chief."

-- John O'Neill, spokesman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

.

"I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be Commander-in-Chief of the armed
forces of the United States. This is not a political issue. It is a matter
of
his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust -- all absolute
tenets of command. His biography, 'Tour of Duty,' by Douglas Brinkley, is
replete with gross exaggerations, distortions of fact, contradictions and
slanderous lies. His contempt for the military and authority is evident by
even
a most casual review of this biography. He arrived in-country with a
strong
anti-Vietnam War bias and a self-serving determination to build a
foundation
for his political future. He was aggressive, but vain and prone to
impulsive
judgment, often with disregard for specific tactical assignments. He was a
'loose cannon.' In an abbreviated tour of four months and 12 days, and
with his
specious medals secure, Lt.(jg) Kerry bugged out and began his infamous
betrayal of all United States forces in the Vietnam War. That included our
soldiers, our marines, our sailors, our coast guardsmen, our airmen, and
our
POWs. His leadership within the so-called Vietnam Veterans Against the War
and
testimony before Congress in 1971 charging us with unspeakable atrocities
remain an undocumented but nevertheless meticulous stain on the men and
women
who honorably stayed the course. Senator Kerry is not fit for command."

-- Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann, USN (retired), chairman, Swift Boat Veterans
for
Truth

.

"During Lt.(jg) Kerry's tour, he was under my command for two or three
specific
operations, before his rapid exit. Trust, loyalty and judgment are the
key,
operative words. His turncoat performance in 1971 in his grubby shirt and
his
medal-tossing escapade, coupled with his slanderous lines in the recent
book
portraying us that served, including all POWs and MIAs, as murderous war
criminals, I believe, will have a lasting effect on all military veterans
and
their families.

Kerry would be described as devious, self-absorbing, manipulative, disdain
for
authority, disruptive, but the most common phrase that you'd hear is
'requires
constant supervision.'"

-- Captain Charles Plumly, USN (retired)

.

"Thirty-five years ago, many of us fell silent when we came back to the
stain
of sewage that Mr. Kerry had thrown on us, and all of our colleagues who
served
over there. I don't intend to be silent today or ever again. Our young men
and
women who are serving deserve no less."

-- Andrew Horne

.

"In my specific, personal experience in both coastal and river patrols
over a
12-month period, I never once saw or heard anything remotely resembling
the
atrocities described by Senator Kerry. If I had, it would have been my
obligation to report them in writing to a higher authority, and I would
certainly have done that. If Senator Kerry actually witnessed or
participated
in these atrocities or, as he described them, 'war crimes,' he was
obligated to
report them. That he did not until later when it suited his political
purposes
strikes me as opportunism of the worst kind. That he would malign my
service
and that of his fellow sailors with no regard for the truth makes him
totally
unqualified to serve as Commander-in-Chief."

-- Jeffrey Wainscott

.

"I signed that letter because I, too felt a deep sense of betrayal that
someone
who took the same oath of loyalty as I did as an officer in the United
States
Navy would abandon his group here (points to group photo) to join this
group
here (points to VVAW protest photo), and come home and attempt to rally
the
American public against the effort that this group was so valiantly
pursuing.

It is a fact that in the entire Vietnam War we did not lose one major
battle.
We lost the war at home... and at home, John Kerry was the Field General."

-- Robert Elder

.

"My daughters and my wife have read portions of the book 'Tour of Duty.'
They
wanted to know if I took part in the atrocities described. I do not
believe the
things that are described happened.

Let me give you an example. In Brinkley's book, on pages 170 to 171, about
something called the 'Bo De massacre' on November 24th of 1968... In
Kerry's
description of the engagement, first he claimed there were 17 servicemen
that
were wounded. Three of us were wounded. I was the first..."

-- Joseph Ponder

.

"While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination
missions,
and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted
Lieutenant.
The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed
that
they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of
a
wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his
hand
that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me
that
Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent
shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and
probably
said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that
scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.

Lt.(jg) Kerry was allowed to return to the good old USA after 4 months and
a
few days in-country, and then he proceeded to betray his former shipmates,
calling them criminals who were committing atrocities. Today we are here
to
tell you that just the opposite is true. Our rules of engagement were
quite
strict, and the officers and men of Swift often did not even return fire
when
they were under fire if there was a possibility that innocent people --
fishermen, in a lot of cases -- might be hurt or injured. The rules and
the
good intentions of the men increased the possibility that we might take
friendly casualties."

-- Commander Grant Hibbard, USN (retired)

.

"Lt. Kerry returned home from the war to make some outrageous statements
and
allegations... numerous criminal acts in violation of the law of war were
cited
by Kerry, disparaging those who had fought with honor in that conflict.
Had war
crimes been committed by US forces in Vietnam? Yes, but such acts were few
and
far between. Yet Lt. Kerry gave numerous speeches and testimony before
Congress
inappropriately leading his audiences to believe that what was only an
anomaly
in the conduct of America's fighting men was an epidemic. Furthermore, he
suggested that they were being encouraged to violated the law of war by
those
within the chain of command.

Very specific orders, on file at the Vietnam archives at Texas Tech
University,
were issued by my father [Admiral Elmo Zumwalt] and others in his chain of
command instructing subordinates to act responsibly in preserving the life
and
property of Vietnamese civilians."

-- Lt. Col. James Zumwalt, USMC (retired)

.

"We look at Vietnam... after all these years it is still languishing in
isolated poverty and helplessness and tyranny. This is John Kerry's
legacy. I
deeply resent John Kerry's using his Swift boat experience, and his
betrayal of
those who fought there as a stepping-stone to his political ambitions."

-- Bernard Wolff

.

"In a whole year that I spent patrolling, I didn't see anything like a war
crime, an atrocity, anything like that. Time and again I saw American
fighting
men put themselves in graver danger trying to avoid... collateral damage.

When John Kerry returned to the country, he was sworn in front of
Congress. And
then he told my family -- my parents, my sister, my brother, my
neighbors -- he
told everyone I knew and everyone I'd ever know that I and my comrades had
committed unspeakable atrocities."

-- David Wallace

.

"I served with these guys. I went on missions with them, and these men
served
honorably. Up and down the chain of command there was no acquiescence to
atrocities. It was not condoned, it did not happen, and it was not
reported to
me verbally or in writing by any of these men including Lt.(jg) Kerry.

In 1971, '72, for almost 18 months, he stood before the television
audiences
and claimed that the 500,000 men and women in Vietnam, and in combat, were
all
villains -- there were no heroes. In 2004, one hero from the Vietnam War
has
appeared, running for President of the United States and
Commander-in-Chief. It
just galls one to think about it."

-- Captain George Elliott, USN (retired)

.

"During the Vietnam War I was Task Force Commander at An Thoi, and my tour
of
duty was 13 months, from the end of Tet to the beginning of the
Vietnamization
of the Navy units.

Now when I went there right after Tet, I was restricted in my movements. I
couldn't go much of anyplace because the Vietcong controlled most of the
area.
When I left, I could go anywhere I wanted, just about. Commerce was
booming,
the buses were running, trucks were going, the waterways were filled with
sampans with goods going to market, but yet in Kerry's biography he says
that
our operations were a complete failure. He also mentions a formal
conference
with me, to try to get more air cover and so on. That conference never
happened..."

-- Captain Adrian Lonsdale, USCG (retired)

.

"I was in An Thoi from June of '68 to June of '69, covering the whole
period
that John Kerry was there. I operated in every river, in every canal, and
every
off-shore patrol area in the 4th Corps area, from Cambodia all the way
around
to the Bo De River. I never saw, even heard of all of these so-called
atrocities and things that we were supposed to have done.

This is not true. We're not standing for it. We want to set the record
straight."

-- William Shumadine

.

"In 1971, when John Kerry spoke out to America, labeling all Vietnam
veterans
as thugs and murderers, I was shocked and almost brought to my knees,
because
even though I had served at the same time and same unit, I had never
witnessed
or participated in any of the events that the Senator had accused us of. I
strongly believe that the statements made by the Senator were not only
false
and inaccurate, but extremely harmful to the United States' efforts in
Southeast Asia and the rest of the world. Tragically, some veterans,
scorned by
the antiwar movement and their allies, retreated to a life of despair and
suicide. Two of my crewmates were among them. For that there is no
forgiveness.
"

-- Richard O'Mara

.

"My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of
duty
in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69,
involved
with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I
know
is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served
alongside him
and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he
made
indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews
in
jeopardy... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can
you
expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"

-- Steven Gardner

.

"I served in Vietnam as a boat officer from June of 1968 to July of 1969.
My
service was three months in Coastal Division 13 out of Cat Lo, and nine
months
with Coastal Division 11 based in An Thoi. John Kerry was in An Thoi the
same
time I was. I'm here today to express the anger I have harbored for over
33
years, about being accused with my fellow shipmates of war atrocities.

All I can say is when I leave here today, I'm going down to the Wall to
tell my
two crew members it's not true, and that they and the other 49 Swiftees
who are
on the Wall were then and are still now the best."

-- Robert Brant

.

"I never saw, heard of, or participated in any Swift boat crews killing
cattle,
poisoning crops, or raping and killing civilians as charged by John Kerry,
both
in his book and in public statements. Since we both operated at the same
time,
in the same general area, and on the same missions under the same
commanders,
it is hard to believe his claims of atrocities and poor planning of Sea
Lord
missions.

I signed this letter because I feel that he used Swift boat sailors to
proclaim
his antiwar statements after the war, and now he uses the same Swift boat
sailors to support his claims of being a war hero. He cannot have it both
ways,
and we are here to ask for full disclosure of the proof of his claims."

-- James Steffes

.

Copyright © 2004 Swift Boat Veterans for Truth
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective
owners. Powered By GeekLog
Created this page in 0.10 seconds

In article , rgrew176
@aol.com says...
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth was launched on May 4, 2004 at a press conference
at the National Press Club in Washington. Eighteen Navy combat veterans and
commanders went on the record opposing John Kerry's bid for the Presidency,
including the entire chain of command above Lt. Kerry in Vietnam, and men who
had fought at his side.

More than 250 Swift boat veterans have now signed an open letter to Senator
Kerry challenging his fitness to serve as commander-in-chief of America's armed
forces.

----------
*** Click thumbnail photos for individual video clips ***

----------

"We resent very deeply the false war crimes charges he made coming back from
Vietnam in 1971 and repeated in the book "Tour of Duty." We think those cast an
aspersion on all those living and dead, from our unit and other units in
Vietnam. We think that he knew he was lying when he made the charges, and we
think that they're unsupportable. We intend to bring the truth about that to
the American people.

We believe, based on our experience with him, that he is totally unfit to be
the Commander-in-Chief."

-- John O'Neill, spokesman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

This man is a first class scumbag who has a string of dubious business
interests that attempt to scam money from unsuspecting veterans.

No credibility.

Our staunchest ally, the UK, is apparently populated by people who are hoping
for a change in the US Presidency.

Check this poll in "The Scotsman"

The readers responded to the question,
"would you prefer George Bush or John Kerry as US President" by favoring Kerry
with something like a 40-point margin.

Good job, George. :-(

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=875922004

*********

Really support our troops. Join "Soldiers for The Truth". http://www.sftt.org/

In article , gould0738
@aol.com says...
Our staunchest ally, the UK, is apparently populated by people who are hoping
for a change in the US Presidency.

Check this poll in "The Scotsman"

Let's hope they're plenty generous with a 527 of their choice!!!

More than 250 Swift boat veterans have now signed an open letter to Senator
Kerry challenging his fitness to serve as commander-in-chief of America's
armed
forces.

Heck yes. We're much better off with the guy who ran and hid from his duty than
a guy who at least showed up.

Kerry sure got around, apparently. 250 people that he met in Viet Nam while
commanding his swift boat were all consciously forming opinions of the
20-something's fitness to be president.

RGrew176 wrote:

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth was launched on May 4, 2004

It's a bull**** organization fronting for the GOP.
--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 21:06:45 -0700, jps wrote:

-- John O'Neill, spokesman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

This man is a first class scumbag who has a string of dubious business
interests that attempt to scam money from unsuspecting veterans.

No credibility.

Are you confusing John O'Neill with Ted Sampley? John O'Neill was Nixon's
hatchet man against Kerry, but I haven't read anything untoward about him.
Ted Sampley on the other hand, . . .

http://www.miafacts.org/prankster.htm

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
More than 250 Swift boat veterans have now signed an open letter to
Senator
Kerry challenging his fitness to serve as commander-in-chief of America's
armed
forces.

Heck yes. We're much better off with the guy who ran and hid from his duty
than
a guy who at least showed up.

Kerry sure got around, apparently. 250 people that he met in Viet Nam
while
commanding his swift boat were all consciously forming opinions of the
20-something's fitness to be president.

LOL!! He was sure happy to have the small section of them who support him
on stage during his last day of the Convention.

Question: Why did he carry a movie camera on the boat and ask his men to
recreate daring scenes he was involved in? Better yet, why did he ask
Spielberg to add the effects of gun fire in the water to those films and add
them to his video at the convention? Very strange.

jim-- wrote:

Question: Why did he carry a movie camera on the boat

Answer: Lots of those who went to Vietnam carried around cameras of
various kinds, still and motion. I had a Leica rangefinder and a Nikon F
with me, and two additional lenses for the Nikon wnen I was in SE Asia.
Lots of officers I met had still cameras and 8 mm cameras with them.

You seem to have a geat deal of difficulty with abstract thinking,
fella. Did you ever graduate from college?

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

Question: Why did he carry a movie camera on the boat

Answer: Lots of those who went to Vietnam carried around cameras of
various kinds, still and motion. I had a Leica rangefinder and a Nikon F
with me, and two additional lenses for the Nikon wnen I was in SE Asia.
Lots of officers I met had still cameras and 8 mm cameras with them.

It was your job to take pictures. It was not Kerry's job to do so and it
was strange that he did.

But even stranger, and what you failed to address, is why he had his men
recreate skirmishes and film them while doing so.

What spin are you going to give that Krause?

jim-- wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

Question: Why did he carry a movie camera on the boat

Answer: Lots of those who went to Vietnam carried around cameras of
various kinds, still and motion. I had a Leica rangefinder and a Nikon F
with me, and two additional lenses for the Nikon wnen I was in SE Asia.
Lots of officers I met had still cameras and 8 mm cameras with them.

It was your job to take pictures.

It was? No, it wasn't. The cameras were my personal property.

It was not Kerry's job to do so and it
was strange that he did.

No it wasn't. There were plenty of personal still and movie cameras in
Vietnam.

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

Question: Why did he carry a movie camera on the boat

Answer: Lots of those who went to Vietnam carried around cameras of
various kinds, still and motion. I had a Leica rangefinder and a Nikon
F
with me, and two additional lenses for the Nikon wnen I was in SE Asia.
Lots of officers I met had still cameras and 8 mm cameras with them.

It was your job to take pictures.

It was? No, it wasn't. The cameras were my personal property.

It was not Kerry's job to do so and it
was strange that he did.

No it wasn't. There were plenty of personal still and movie cameras in
Vietnam.

So are you saying, or trying to infer, that you actually *served* in Vietnam
or are you saying that you were a civilian working over there?

And you never answered my original question....for some strange reason you
keep deleting it from your replies:

Question: Why did he carry a movie camera on the boat and ask his men to
recreate daring scenes he was involved in? Better yet, why did he ask
Spielberg to add the effects of gun fire in the water to those films and add
them to his video at the convention?

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:22:06 -0400, "jim--" wrote:

But even stranger, and what you failed to address, is why he had his men
recreate skirmishes and film them while doing so.

Is it your opinion he should have filmed the action while it was
acutally happening?

bb

jim-- wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

Question: Why did he carry a movie camera on the boat

Answer: Lots of those who went to Vietnam carried around cameras of
various kinds, still and motion. I had a Leica rangefinder and a Nikon
F
with me, and two additional lenses for the Nikon wnen I was in SE Asia.
Lots of officers I met had still cameras and 8 mm cameras with them.

It was your job to take pictures.

It was? No, it wasn't. The cameras were my personal property.

It was not Kerry's job to do so and it
was strange that he did.

No it wasn't. There were plenty of personal still and movie cameras in
Vietnam.

So are you saying, or trying to infer, that you actually *served* in Vietnam
or are you saying that you were a civilian working over there?

I posted what I posted. It's always fun to watch the low-brain-output
right-wingers "misinterpolate" (as your leader would say)...

And you never answered my original question....for some strange reason you
keep deleting it from your replies:

There's no requirement that I answer your questions. As I have stated
time and again, I have no interest in playing your games. You, of
course, are one of those who leap to conclusions based upon this, but,
again, all this does is lead you down the road to "misinterpolation."

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

JohnH wrote:

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 06:26:58 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:

RGrew176 wrote:

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth was launched on May 4, 2004

It's a bull**** organization fronting for the GOP.

Here's the site and the pictures, Harry. Where's the bull****? (Excluding yours,
of course.)

John H

It's been widely reported, Herring. It's a bull**** GOP group. Guess you
wouldn't read that in NewsMax or the other rightwing crap outlets upon
which you depend for guidance and immorality.

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

Question: Why did he carry a movie camera on the boat

Answer: Lots of those who went to Vietnam carried around cameras of
various kinds, still and motion. I had a Leica rangefinder and a
Nikon
F
with me, and two additional lenses for the Nikon wnen I was in SE
Asia.
Lots of officers I met had still cameras and 8 mm cameras with them.

It was your job to take pictures.

It was? No, it wasn't. The cameras were my personal property.

It was not Kerry's job to do so and it
was strange that he did.

No it wasn't. There were plenty of personal still and movie cameras in
Vietnam.

So are you saying, or trying to infer, that you actually *served* in
Vietnam
or are you saying that you were a civilian working over there?

I posted what I posted. It's always fun to watch the low-brain-output
right-wingers "misinterpolate" (as your leader would say)...

And you never answered my original question....for some strange reason
you
keep deleting it from your replies:

There's no requirement that I answer your questions. As I have stated
time and again, I have no interest in playing your games. You, of
course, are one of those who leap to conclusions based upon this, but,
again, all this does is lead you down the road to "misinterpolation."

Translation: You got me stumped once again. I will therefore resort to
personal attacks as that is my safety net when losing an argument.

jim-- wrote:

There's no requirement that I answer your questions. As I have stated
time and again, I have no interest in playing your games. You, of
course, are one of those who leap to conclusions based upon this, but,
again, all this does is lead you down the road to "misinterpolation."

Translation: You got me stumped once again. I will therefore resort to
personal attacks as that is my safety net when losing an argument.

That's right, Dennis. You're "stumped" once again. And you always will
be with me, because (a) I only play when I want to play and (b) my bowel
movements are smarter than you are.

What's next from you? A few idiotic LOLs?

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

There's no requirement that I answer your questions. As I have stated
time and again, I have no interest in playing your games. You, of
course, are one of those who leap to conclusions based upon this, but,
again, all this does is lead you down the road to "misinterpolation."

Translation: You got me stumped once again. I will therefore resort to
personal attacks as that is my safety net when losing an argument.

That's right, Dennis. You're "stumped" once again. And you always will
be with me, because (a) I only play when I want to play and (b) my bowel
movements are smarter than you are.

What's next from you? A few idiotic LOLs?

You are so......predictable. Dance Krause, dance. LOL!!!!

jim-- wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

There's no requirement that I answer your questions. As I have stated
time and again, I have no interest in playing your games. You, of
course, are one of those who leap to conclusions based upon this, but,
again, all this does is lead you down the road to "misinterpolation."

Translation: You got me stumped once again. I will therefore resort to
personal attacks as that is my safety net when losing an argument.

That's right, Dennis. You're "stumped" once again. And you always will
be with me, because (a) I only play when I want to play and (b) my bowel
movements are smarter than you are.

What's next from you? A few idiotic LOLs?

You are so......predictable. Dance Krause, dance. LOL!!!!

Dennis...NO ONE with a brain thinks you are pulling any strings here,
other than, of course, the usual right-wing sock puppets. Find yourself
another hobby. Blocks, maybe, or Lincoln logs.

When are you and your wife buying another boat, Dennis? Anytime soon?

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

Better yet, why did he ask
Spielberg to add the effects of gun fire in the water to those films and add
them to his video at the convention? Very strange.

Cite?

************

Really support our troops. Join "Soldiers for The Truth". http://www.sftt.org/

From Snopes:

Kerry earned his Silver Star on 28
February 1969, when he beached his craft and jumped off it with an M-16 rifle
in hand to chase and shoot a guerrilla who was running into position to launch
a B-40 rocket at Kerry's boat. Contrary to the account quoted above, Kerry did
not shoot a "Charlie" who had "fired at the boat and missed," whose "rocket
launcher was empty," and who was "already dead or dying" after being "knocked
down with a .50 caliber round." Kerry's boat had been hit by a rocket fired by
someone else â€” the guerrilla in question was still armed with a live B-40 and
had only been clipped in the leg; when the guerrilla got up to run, Kerry
assumed he was getting into position to launch a rocket and shot him:

On Feb. 28, 1969, Kerry's boat received word that a swift boat was being
ambushed. As Kerry raced to the scene, his boat became another target, as a
Viet Cong B-40 rocket blast shattered a window. Kerry could have ordered his
crew to hit the enemy and run. But the skipper had a more aggressive reaction
in mind. Beach the boat, Kerry ordered, and the craft's bow was quickly rammed
upon the shoreline. Out of the bush appeared a teenager in a loin cloth,
clutching a grenade launcher.

An enemy was just feet away, holding a weapon with enough firepower to blow up
the boat. Kerry's forward gunner, [Tommy] Belodeau, shot and clipped the Viet
Cong in the leg. Then Belodeau's gun jammed, according to other crewmates
(Belodeau died in 1997). [Michael] Medeiros tried to fire at the Viet Cong, but
he couldn't get a shot off.

In an interview, Kerry added a chilling detail.

"This guy could have dispatched us in a second, but for . . . I'll never be
able to explain, we were literally face to face, he with his B-40 rocket and us
in our boat, and he didn't pull the trigger. I would not be here today talking
to you if he had," Kerry recalled. "And Tommy clipped him, and he started going
[down.] I thought it was over."

Instead, the guerrilla got up and started running. "We've got to get him, make
sure he doesn't get behind the hut, and then we're in trouble," Kerry recalled.

So Kerry shot and killed the guerrilla. "I don't have a second's question about
that, nor does anybody who was with me," he said. "He was running away with a
live B-40, and, I thought, poised to turn around and fire it." Asked whether
that meant Kerry shot the guerrilla in the back, Kerry said, "No, absolutely
not. He was hurt, other guys were shooting from back, side, back. There is no,
there is not a scintilla of question in any person's mind who was there [that]
this guy was dangerous, he was a combatant, he had an armed weapon."
Another member of the crew confirmed Kerry's account for the Boston Globe and
expressed no doubt that Kerry's action had saved both the boat and its crew:

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Better yet, why did he ask
Spielberg to add the effects of gun fire in the water to those films and
add
them to his video at the convention? Very strange.

Cite?

Heard it on the radio yesterday...perhaps Glenn Beck. I will try to dig up
a link for you.

The videos looked like the original events to you Chuck?? Why would anyone
in their right mind, especially the commander of a war ship, be taking
movies instead of commanding his ship and troops through the fight??

Heard it on the radio yesterday...perhaps Glenn Beck. I will try to dig up
a link for you.

Who is Glenn Beck? Another Limbaugh clone?

The videos looked like the original events to you Chuck?? Why would anyone
in their right mind, especially the commander of a war ship, be taking
movies instead of commanding his ship and troops through the fight??

I didn't see the videos. I'm not commenting
on their authenticity.

You, on the other hand, are spreading a specific story that Steven Spielberg
conspired with John Kerry to "spice up" these videos with special effects (like
bullets impacting the water) in order to make them more impressive for the
Democratic convention.

Unless you want everybody to presume that you simply pulled that story out of
your transom exhaust hose, or that your close personal relationship with
Spielberg and/or Kerry has made you privy to this conspiracy, you shouldn't
make a statement like that without some corroboration.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Better yet, why did he ask
Spielberg to add the effects of gun fire in the water to those films and
add
them to his video at the convention? Very strange.

Cite?

My bad...James Moll, partner of Spielberg.

http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200407301059.asp

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc81.htm

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Heard it on the radio yesterday...perhaps Glenn Beck. I will try to dig
up
a link for you.

Who is Glenn Beck? Another Limbaugh clone?

The videos looked like the original events to you Chuck?? Why would
anyone
in their right mind, especially the commander of a war ship, be taking
movies instead of commanding his ship and troops through the fight??

I didn't see the videos. I'm not commenting
on their authenticity.

You, on the other hand, are spreading a specific story that Steven
Spielberg
conspired with John Kerry to "spice up" these videos with special effects
(like
bullets impacting the water) in order to make them more impressive for the
Democratic convention.

Unless you want everybody to presume that you simply pulled that story out
of
your transom exhaust hose, or that your close personal relationship with
Spielberg and/or Kerry has made you privy to this conspiracy, you
shouldn't
make a statement like that without some corroboration.

No need to get all bent out of shape Chuck....see my links before you shoot
from the hip anymore than you already have. And there are plenty
more...just google if you don't trust them. ;-)

No one ran and hid, Harry. Bush went into the Guard and flew F102's.

Bush showed up for guard duty.
For a while.
He then "flunked" or refused to submit to the drug test rquired before learning
to fly a plane that was more likely going to see some combat.

Bush's pay records have a three month "gap".

He then got an early dismissal to go work on a Republican politician's campaign
in Alabama.

Sounds like CIC material to me.

Figger it out, you guys. We're trying to figure who is most qualified to be
POTUS, not which of these inept characters is least qualified to lead men into
combat. I wouldn't follow either one of them into hell, but at least one of
them made a brief appearance there and knows where it is.

AA88

Really support our troops. Join "Soldiers for The Truth". http://www.sftt.org/

Gould 0738 wrote:
Heard it on the radio yesterday...perhaps Glenn Beck. I will try to dig up
a link for you.

Who is Glenn Beck? Another Limbaugh clone?

Even more tasteless, if you can imagine that.

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

jim-- wrote:

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Better yet, why did he ask
Spielberg to add the effects of gun fire in the water to those films and
add
them to his video at the convention? Very strange.

Cite?

My bad...James Moll, partner of Spielberg.

http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200407301059.asp

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc81.htm

Let's try for some legit sources, eh, crap-for-brains?

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Better yet, why did he ask
Spielberg to add the effects of gun fire in the water to those films
and
add
them to his video at the convention? Very strange.

Cite?

My bad...James Moll, partner of Spielberg.

http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200407301059.asp

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc81.htm

Let's try for some legit sources, eh, crap-for-brains?

Why are they not legit? Because *you* say so?

I offered the proof. Perhaps you can show that the links are wrong.

jim-- wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Better yet, why did he ask
Spielberg to add the effects of gun fire in the water to those films
and
add
them to his video at the convention? Very strange.

Cite?

My bad...James Moll, partner of Spielberg.

http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200407301059.asp

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc81.htm

Let's try for some legit sources, eh, crap-for-brains?

Why are they not legit? Because *you* say so?

I offered the proof. Perhaps you can show that the links are wrong.

You offered up two notoriously conservative websites. No more credible
than the Moonie paper, Faux news, or NewsCraps. Don't you look at
anything legit? No wonder you are so ****ed in the head.

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Better yet, why did he ask
Spielberg to add the effects of gun fire in the water to those
films
and
add
them to his video at the convention? Very strange.

Cite?

My bad...James Moll, partner of Spielberg.

http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200407301059.asp

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc81.htm

Let's try for some legit sources, eh, crap-for-brains?

Why are they not legit? Because *you* say so?

I offered the proof. Perhaps you can show that the links are wrong.

You offered up two notoriously conservative websites. No more credible
than the Moonie paper, Faux news, or NewsCraps. Don't you look at
anything legit? No wonder you are so ****ed in the head.

Resort to insults....proof you lost another argument.

jim-- wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Better yet, why did he ask
Spielberg to add the effects of gun fire in the water to those
films
and
add
them to his video at the convention? Very strange.

Cite?

My bad...James Moll, partner of Spielberg.

http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200407301059.asp

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc81.htm

Let's try for some legit sources, eh, crap-for-brains?

Why are they not legit? Because *you* say so?

I offered the proof. Perhaps you can show that the links are wrong.

You offered up two notoriously conservative websites. No more credible
than the Moonie paper, Faux news, or NewsCraps. Don't you look at
anything legit? No wonder you are so ****ed in the head.

Resort to insults....proof you lost another argument.

You're a simpleton, Dennis. If you want to debate, stick with the little
kiddies in the playground. In all the time you've been posting here, you
haven't come up with a single clever remark. Not one. Ever. What is it
you used to do before you were forcibly retired?

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

Harry,
You are obsessed with a few people in here. Life must be very boring to get
you to post so much in rec.boats.

How is your Lobster Boat and Doctor Doctor wife doing.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jim-- wrote:

Question: Why did he carry a movie camera on the boat

Answer: Lots of those who went to Vietnam carried around cameras of
various kinds, still and motion. I had a Leica rangefinder and a
Nikon
F
with me, and two additional lenses for the Nikon wnen I was in SE
Asia.
Lots of officers I met had still cameras and 8 mm cameras with them.

It was your job to take pictures.

It was? No, it wasn't. The cameras were my personal property.

It was not Kerry's job to do so and it
was strange that he did.

No it wasn't. There were plenty of personal still and movie cameras in
Vietnam.

So are you saying, or trying to infer, that you actually *served* in
Vietnam
or are you saying that you were a civilian working over there?

I posted what I posted. It's always fun to watch the low-brain-output
right-wingers "misinterpolate" (as your leader would say)...

And you never answered my original question....for some strange reason
you
keep deleting it from your replies:

There's no requirement that I answer your questions. As I have stated
time and again, I have no interest in playing your games. You, of
course, are one of those who leap to conclusions based upon this, but,
again, all this does is lead you down the road to "misinterpolation."

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

No need to get all bent out of shape Chuck....see my links before you shoot
from the hip anymore than you already have.

Your links appeared, on my server, long after I requested them. Hardly shooting
from the hip.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
No need to get all bent out of shape Chuck....see my links before you
shoot
from the hip anymore than you already have.

Your links appeared, on my server, long after I requested them. Hardly
shooting
from the hip.

Sure Chuck...they were posted a whole 24 minutes later. I guess it was a
coincidence that they did not appear on your server until "long after" you
requested them.

Not only do you shoot from the hip but you are also one impatient SOB.

Pretty funny stuff Chuck.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
No one ran and hid, Harry. Bush went into the Guard and flew F102's.

Bush showed up for guard duty.
For a while.
He then "flunked" or refused to submit to the drug test rquired before
learning
to fly a plane that was more likely going to see some combat.

Bush's pay records have a three month "gap".

He then got an early dismissal to go work on a Republican politician's
campaign
in Alabama.

Sounds like CIC material to me.

Figger it out, you guys. We're trying to figure who is most qualified to
be
POTUS, not which of these inept characters is least qualified to lead men
into
combat. I wouldn't follow either one of them into hell, but at least one
of
them made a brief appearance there and knows where it is.

AA88

And you servered in what service and where? Why is military experience so
important now? It wasn't important in previous elections when you boy was
found to be a draft dodger.