Loud boats
 

Dave: No comments from the peanut gallery.

I'm using the term "speedboats" to describe boats which sound like they have
(and probably do have) a pair of 400+ cubic inch motors in the back? In
order to achieve their purpose (speed), is it absolutely necessary for them
to be as noisy as they are, or are they just designed that way, in the same
way some morons alter their motorcycles because "loud pipes save lives"?
And, when they're idling, why do they sound (and smell) as if the engines
are only firing on half their cylinders?

Loud boats
 

Well, you've hit on a sore spot with me. Unmuffled engines might gain
2-5 mph on top end, but at the expense of annoying most people at idle
speeds. Ironically, since the exhaust is aimed away from the offenders
cockpit, it is usually of little to no concern to them or their crew.

Most if not all of these boats can elect to install a diverter which
outputs the exhaust under water at low speeds, but for various reasons
(cost, reliability, desire to be a dickhead, etc) elect not to do so.

In the motorcyle world, I'll buy loud pipes save lives as a arguement,
even if its a weak one. In the boating world, with only a modest gain in
performance, I'm guessing some people just need to "compensate for water
shrinkage", but that's just my opinion.

BTW the the pooor idle performance you've observed is a sacrifice to get
higher RPM at top end through more radical valve timing.

Bob Dimond




In article , "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Dave: No comments from the peanut gallery.

I'm using the term "speedboats" to describe boats which sound like they have
(and probably do have) a pair of 400+ cubic inch motors in the back? In
order to achieve their purpose (speed), is it absolutely necessary for them
to be as noisy as they are, or are they just designed that way, in the same
way some morons alter their motorcycles because "loud pipes save lives"?
And, when they're idling, why do they sound (and smell) as if the engines
are only firing on half their cylinders?

Loud boats
 

Subject: Loud boats
From: "Doug Kanter"

I'm using the term "speedboats" to describe boats which sound like they have
(and probably do have) a pair of 400+ cubic inch motors in the back?
In
order to achieve their purpose (speed), is it absolutely necessary for them
to be as noisy as they are,

Not necessarily. But exhaust restrictions can lower max horse power.

or are they just designed that way, in the same
way some morons alter their motorcycles because "loud pipes save lives"?

In some cases yes. Except for the "save lives" part.

And, when they're idling, why do they sound (and smell) as if the engines
are only firing on half their cylinders?

Cam timing and lift patterns.

Capt. Bill

Loud boats
 

"LaBomba182" wrote in message
...
Subject: Loud boats
From: "Doug Kanter"

I'm using the term "speedboats" to describe boats which sound like they
have
(and probably do have) a pair of 400+ cubic inch motors in the back?
In
order to achieve their purpose (speed), is it absolutely necessary for
them
to be as noisy as they are,

Not necessarily. But exhaust restrictions can lower max horse power.

or are they just designed that way, in the same
way some morons alter their motorcycles because "loud pipes save lives"?

In some cases yes. Except for the "save lives" part.

And, when they're idling, why do they sound (and smell) as if the engines
are only firing on half their cylinders?

Cam timing and lift patterns.

Capt. Bill

Are they, in fact, misfiring at idle?

Loud boats
 

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 15:41:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:
I'm using the term "speedboats" to describe boats which sound like they have
(and probably do have) a pair of 400+ cubic inch motors in the back? In
order to achieve their purpose (speed), is it absolutely necessary for them
to be as noisy as they are, or are they just designed that way, in the same
way some morons alter their motorcycles because "loud pipes save lives"?
And, when they're idling, why do they sound (and smell) as if the engines
are only firing on half their cylinders?
=====================================

It's just more thoughtless behavior from the ego challenged "look at
me" crowd. There's no reason at all why a pair of 454s has to be
louder than any other well mannered I/O except that the owners prefer
it that way. Unfortunately in their "it's a free country behavior",
they bring down a lot of unwanted attention and enforcement on the
rest of us. Much of the support for "Save the Manatee" madness
originated with waterfront property owners who were fed up with the
constant noise of jet skis and go fasts zipping up and down the
shoreline at high speed (and decibel levels).

The unique stumbling idle is from the use of high performance cam
shafts that are designed to run well only at top RPMs.

Loud boats
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 15:41:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:
I'm using the term "speedboats" to describe boats which sound like they
have
(and probably do have) a pair of 400+ cubic inch motors in the back? In
order to achieve their purpose (speed), is it absolutely necessary for
them
to be as noisy as they are, or are they just designed that way, in the
same
way some morons alter their motorcycles because "loud pipes save lives"?
And, when they're idling, why do they sound (and smell) as if the engines
are only firing on half their cylinders?
=====================================

It's just more thoughtless behavior from the ego challenged "look at
me" crowd. There's no reason at all why a pair of 454s has to be
louder than any other well mannered I/O except that the owners prefer
it that way. Unfortunately in their "it's a free country behavior",
they bring down a lot of unwanted attention and enforcement on the
rest of us. Much of the support for "Save the Manatee" madness
originated with waterfront property owners who were fed up with the
constant noise of jet skis and go fasts zipping up and down the
shoreline at high speed (and decibel levels).

The unique stumbling idle is from the use of high performance cam
shafts that are designed to run well only at top RPMs.


Interesting, that last line. Does that explain why some of these boats smell
like unburned gasoline's blarping out of the exhausts, or is that another
issue?

Loud boats
 

Interesting, that last line. Does that explain why some of these boats smell
like unburned gasoline's blarping out of the exhausts,

That is exactly what is happening. A high performance cam will hold the intake
and exhaust valves open at the same time, longer than a normal cam. (overlap)
At high RPMs when air is flowing fast and plugs are firing 50 or 60 times a
second, that is a good thing but at lower RPMs you are actually sucking intake
mix directly into the exhaust.You can also be popping back through the carb.
You will see the same thing with race cars ...
....and 2 strokes.

Loud boats
 

I do agree these folks may be calling undue attention to boats. It may be just
a matter of time before we are all running air pumps and catalytic converters.

Loud boats
 

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Interesting, that last line. Does that explain why some of these boats
smell
like unburned gasoline's blarping out of the exhausts,

That is exactly what is happening. A high performance cam will hold the
intake
and exhaust valves open at the same time, longer than a normal cam.
(overlap)
At high RPMs when air is flowing fast and plugs are firing 50 or 60 times
a
second, that is a good thing but at lower RPMs you are actually sucking
intake
mix directly into the exhaust.You can also be popping back through the
carb.
You will see the same thing with race cars ...
...and 2 strokes.

Great. As if the 100+ decibel noise weren't enough.....

Loud boats
 

"Greg" wrote in message
...
I do agree these folks may be calling undue attention to boats. It may be
just
a matter of time before we are all running air pumps and catalytic
converters.


I brought up the subject because after being a chauffeur for my 15 yr old
son and his friends for most of the day, I ran out of time to get the boat
in the water. So, I meandered down to the inlet where Irondequoit Bay meets
Lake Ontario. Every 30 seconds, one of these needle-dick boats came blarping
through the inlet. Even at idle speed, it completely drowned out ALL other
sound. I couldn't hear the guy standing 10 feet away from me, who was
yelling about why these dumb boats aren't illegal.

Loud boats
 

I couldn't hear the guy standing 10 feet away from me, who was
yelling about why these dumb boats aren't illegal.

I don't think they should be illegal but I do think the folks who own them have
a responsibility to use them in places where they don't unnecessarily bother
people. These are really offshore race boats, take them offshore and enjoy!
Like most things, if people don't use self dicipline the government will step
in and impose law.
My favorite example is the SCUBA industry. In the 60s they took it upon
themselves to regulate themselves and almost a half century later, in a time
where the government has it's big nose in everything remotely dangerous, SCUBA
is still pretty much self regulated.

Loud boats
 

"Greg" wrote in message
...
I couldn't hear the guy standing 10 feet away from me, who was
yelling about why these dumb boats aren't illegal.

I don't think they should be illegal but I do think the folks who own them
have
a responsibility to use them in places where they don't unnecessarily
bother
people. These are really offshore race boats, take them offshore and
enjoy!
Like most things, if people don't use self dicipline the government will
step
in and impose law.
My favorite example is the SCUBA industry. In the 60s they took it upon
themselves to regulate themselves and almost a half century later, in a
time
where the government has it's big nose in everything remotely dangerous,
SCUBA
is still pretty much self regulated.

Makes sense for the scuba biz. I suspect much of the health of the industry
is based on tourists who pay to get trained quickly, jump in the water and
see nice fish & coral. That requires quite a bit of trust from the consumer,
and that means the industry had better have its head screwed on right. If
the feds were involved, congress would still be debating whether the bends
was a real medical problem or not. :-)

Loud boats
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

Cam timing and lift patterns.

Capt. Bill

Are they, in fact, misfiring at idle?



An engine that is designed for high RPMs will often sacrifice low RPM (idle)
performance to get the engine to breath better at high RPMs.

At the higher RPMs the momentum (or lack thereof) is a substantial factor in
the air flow. The exhaust gases flowing out the manifold have momentum, and
can actually help scavenge the cylinder if the valves are left open a little
past "top dead center". Likewise, it takes a while to get the air intake to
start flowing, plus it takes a while to actually get the valves to open. It
is common for a high RPM cam to have both the exhaust and intake valves open
together for a short period of time.

This works well at 6000 + RPM. It doesn't work well at 800 RPM.

I wouldn't call it a "misfire" as much as the intake system is getting all
messed up.

Rod

Loud boats
 

If they were decent people they would use Silent Choice. Larry Hill

These are really offshore race boats, take them offshore and enjoy!
Like most things, if people don't use self dicipline the government will step
in and impose law.

Loud boats
 

"Larry Hill" wrote in message
...
If they were decent people they would use Silent Choice. Larry Hill



I actually haven't figured out what is more amusing, the fact that you guys
are actually talking about boats on this forum, or the fact that you don't
have a clue about how these boats ACTUALLY operate.

Yes, most performace boats do have switchable exhaust of some sort installed
on them. Not all, but most. What you have failed to mention is the fact
that these systems cannot be used above a certain RPM level. I realize this
doesn't justify not using them while idling.

These boats are manufactured to perform at high speed. They have big block
engines in them. They are going to be loud. We all have to pay taxes and
someday we will all die. Facts that we have to live w/ and move on. Get
over it.

Buck

Loud boats
 

Those "dumb boats" most likely are illegal. Section 44 of the NYS
Navigation Law appears to restrict the type of operation you are
complaining about.
Of course having a law and enforcing that law are two different animals.
Worse, I never found a significant difference in performance between the
through transom setups and those that exhausted through the outdrive.
If you are talking about a thoroughly tuned racing setup then, sure you
will have a performance advantage with reduced exhaust pressure. But the
average consumer boat? Naw - its just the "look at me" syndrome that
****es people off rather than impressing them.
Good luck and good boating,
Jim


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Greg" wrote in message
...

I do agree these folks may be calling undue attention to boats. It may be

just

a matter of time before we are all running air pumps and catalytic

converters.


I brought up the subject because after being a chauffeur for my 15 yr old
son and his friends for most of the day, I ran out of time to get the boat
in the water. So, I meandered down to the inlet where Irondequoit Bay meets
Lake Ontario. Every 30 seconds, one of these needle-dick boats came blarping
through the inlet. Even at idle speed, it completely drowned out ALL other
sound. I couldn't hear the guy standing 10 feet away from me, who was
yelling about why these dumb boats aren't illegal.

Loud boats
 

Jesus....some of you so called "boaters"....
A boat needs to have a nice big ass fire breathing big block in it to even
be CALLED a boat! If you all don't like the sound, I suggest you crawl
aboard a sail-bote and leave the water to the rest of us...lol!
I've owned many different boats and with the exception of one (my first) all
with big blocks, all with open exhaust....the way God intended.
The sound is good, and manly men appreciate this. Girly men don't...it is
as simple as that. What....you'd put a muffler on a race car? You guys
want to hear loud? Go to some F1 races and hear those beautiful V10s
screaming at 18,000 rpm. Or go to some Top Fuel/Funny Car races. Loud
exhaust = good fun. But yes, it is up to the owner to have consideration
for other more "sensitive" types, of course. No need to blow the gel-coat
off someone else whilst idling thru the marinas.



"Jim Brinson" wrote in message
...
Those "dumb boats" most likely are illegal. Section 44 of the NYS
Navigation Law appears to restrict the type of operation you are
complaining about.
Of course having a law and enforcing that law are two different animals.
Worse, I never found a significant difference in performance between the
through transom setups and those that exhausted through the outdrive.
If you are talking about a thoroughly tuned racing setup then, sure you
will have a performance advantage with reduced exhaust pressure. But the
average consumer boat? Naw - its just the "look at me" syndrome that
****es people off rather than impressing them.
Good luck and good boating,
Jim


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Greg" wrote in message
...

I do agree these folks may be calling undue attention to boats. It may
be

just

a matter of time before we are all running air pumps and catalytic

converters.


I brought up the subject because after being a chauffeur for my 15 yr
old
son and his friends for most of the day, I ran out of time to get the
boat
in the water. So, I meandered down to the inlet where Irondequoit Bay
meets
Lake Ontario. Every 30 seconds, one of these needle-dick boats came
blarping
through the inlet. Even at idle speed, it completely drowned out ALL
other
sound. I couldn't hear the guy standing 10 feet away from me, who was
yelling about why these dumb boats aren't illegal.

Loud boats
 

LOL bajaman.....I was thinking pretty much what you said but didn't have the
heart to put it quite like you did. Can't say I agree more.

I've never owned a boat w/ anything smaller than a 502. Don't see that
changing in my lifetime either. But then again, I intend to live my life to
the fullest too and not watch it go buy.

Buck
"bajaman" wrote in message
nk.net...
Jesus....some of you so called "boaters"....
A boat needs to have a nice big ass fire breathing big block in it to even
be CALLED a boat! If you all don't like the sound, I suggest you crawl
aboard a sail-bote and leave the water to the rest of us...lol!
I've owned many different boats and with the exception of one (my first)
all
with big blocks, all with open exhaust....the way God intended.
The sound is good, and manly men appreciate this. Girly men don't...it is
as simple as that. What....you'd put a muffler on a race car? You guys
want to hear loud? Go to some F1 races and hear those beautiful V10s
screaming at 18,000 rpm. Or go to some Top Fuel/Funny Car races. Loud
exhaust = good fun. But yes, it is up to the owner to have consideration
for other more "sensitive" types, of course. No need to blow the gel-coat
off someone else whilst idling thru the marinas.



"Jim Brinson" wrote in message
...
Those "dumb boats" most likely are illegal. Section 44 of the NYS
Navigation Law appears to restrict the type of operation you are
complaining about.
Of course having a law and enforcing that law are two different animals.
Worse, I never found a significant difference in performance between the
through transom setups and those that exhausted through the outdrive.
If you are talking about a thoroughly tuned racing setup then, sure you
will have a performance advantage with reduced exhaust pressure. But the
average consumer boat? Naw - its just the "look at me" syndrome that
****es people off rather than impressing them.
Good luck and good boating,
Jim


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Greg" wrote in message
...

I do agree these folks may be calling undue attention to boats. It may
be

just

a matter of time before we are all running air pumps and catalytic

converters.


I brought up the subject because after being a chauffeur for my 15 yr
old
son and his friends for most of the day, I ran out of time to get the
boat
in the water. So, I meandered down to the inlet where Irondequoit Bay
meets
Lake Ontario. Every 30 seconds, one of these needle-dick boats came
blarping
through the inlet. Even at idle speed, it completely drowned out ALL
other
sound. I couldn't hear the guy standing 10 feet away from me, who was
yelling about why these dumb boats aren't illegal.

Loud boats
 

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:09:26 -0500, "buck183"
wrote:

Facts that we have to live w/ and move on. Get
over it.

Buck
=========================

Not true, you're the one who needs to "get over it".

Grow up and assume some responsibility.

Loud boats
 

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 03:20:26 GMT, "bajaman"
wrote:

No need to blow the gel-coat
off someone else whilst idling thru the marinas.

=========================

Or by my house. One of my neighbors just installed a silent choice
system on his Scarab after a visit from the local PD. Everyone on the
canal staged a little revolt and decided we'd had enough. There are
noise laws on the books most places, the problem is getting them
enforced.

Loud boats
 

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:06:56 -0500, "buck183"
wrote:

I've never owned a boat w/ anything smaller than a 502. Don't see that
changing in my lifetime either. But then again, I intend to live my life to
the fullest too and not watch it go buy.

==================================

You need to find another way to stoke your ego. Ever thought about
community service?

Loud boats
 

I meandered down to the inlet where Irondequoit Bay meets
Lake Ontario. Every 30 seconds, one of these needle-dick boats came blarping
through the inlet. Even at idle speed, it completely drowned out ALL other
sound. I couldn't hear the guy standing 10 feet away from me, who was
yelling about why these dumb boats aren't illegal.


Out here we call those boats "Convertors" they convert money into noise.

Loud boats
 

bajaman wrote:
Jesus....some of you so called "boaters"....
A boat needs to have a nice big ass fire breathing big block in it to even
be CALLED a boat! If you all don't like the sound, I suggest you crawl
aboard a sail-bote and leave the water to the rest of us...lol!
I've owned many different boats and with the exception of one (my first) all
with big blocks, all with open exhaust....the way God intended.
The sound is good, and manly men appreciate this. Girly men don't...it is
as simple as that. What....you'd put a muffler on a race car? You guys
want to hear loud? Go to some F1 races and hear those beautiful V10s
screaming at 18,000 rpm. Or go to some Top Fuel/Funny Car races. Loud
exhaust = good fun. But yes, it is up to the owner to have consideration
for other more "sensitive" types, of course. No need to blow the gel-coat
off someone else whilst idling thru the marinas.


A muffler on a race car? I think not; the noise is part of the
excitement. My company used to supply many of the pickup boats when the
unlimited hydros came to town. The noise was deafening! But then came
the turbines - much faster - Miss Budweiser blew by the old piston
boats. But it just wasn't the same. The noise added to the experience.
But that's racing - not pleasure boating.
And the pleasure that you derive with your increased db levels comes at
the expense of annoying most other boaters.
I sold many performance boats to people with fat wallets and the Mr. T
starter kits. So yes, I contributed to the problem. The waste of
resources (80 gph) and the intrusion on other boaters eventually
bothered me to the point that I could no longer effectively sell this
type of boat.
If it is a sign of manliness to not care about other people - then I
guess I just joined the ranks of the girly men. Sheesh! Such arrogance.

Good luck and good boating,
Jim

Loud boats
 

Jim Brinson wrote:

bajaman wrote:
Jesus....some of you so called "boaters"....
A boat needs to have a nice big ass fire breathing big block in it to even
be CALLED a boat! If you all don't like the sound, I suggest you crawl
aboard a sail-bote and leave the water to the rest of us...lol!
I've owned many different boats and with the exception of one (my first) all
with big blocks, all with open exhaust....the way God intended.
The sound is good, and manly men appreciate this. Girly men don't...it is
as simple as that. What....you'd put a muffler on a race car? You guys
want to hear loud? Go to some F1 races and hear those beautiful V10s
screaming at 18,000 rpm. Or go to some Top Fuel/Funny Car races. Loud
exhaust = good fun. But yes, it is up to the owner to have consideration
for other more "sensitive" types, of course. No need to blow the gel-coat
off someone else whilst idling thru the marinas.


A muffler on a race car? I think not; the noise is part of the
excitement. My company used to supply many of the pickup boats when the
unlimited hydros came to town. The noise was deafening! But then came
the turbines - much faster - Miss Budweiser blew by the old piston
boats. But it just wasn't the same. The noise added to the experience.
But that's racing - not pleasure boating.
And the pleasure that you derive with your increased db levels comes at
the expense of annoying most other boaters.
I sold many performance boats to people with fat wallets and the Mr. T
starter kits. So yes, I contributed to the problem. The waste of
resources (80 gph) and the intrusion on other boaters eventually
bothered me to the point that I could no longer effectively sell this
type of boat.
If it is a sign of manliness to not care about other people - then I
guess I just joined the ranks of the girly men. Sheesh! Such arrogance.

Good luck and good boating,
Jim


Sanctioned boat racing noise is one thing...it happens once in a while,
it's for entertainment value, those who are offended by it can do
something else somewhere else that day.. . but to have to hear the
dipsticks with the deliberately loud boats on a regular basis-blech.


--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

Loud boats
 

Well Buck, as you can see we are in the minority in our opinions but WE know
what we like and have bought what we want. You and I both know that most of
the namby-pambys whining here secretly wish they had what we have. I
suspect most of them are the types that let their wives run their lives,
make their decisions for them....lol! And yes, they are the kind of guys
that have always not got what they want, likely are totally politically
correct, drive 55 on the highway to save gas....in other words.....BORING!
But the world needs those guys too, and to each his own I guess.

Bajaman


"buck183" wrote in message
...
LOL bajaman.....I was thinking pretty much what you said but didn't have
the
heart to put it quite like you did. Can't say I agree more.

I've never owned a boat w/ anything smaller than a 502. Don't see that
changing in my lifetime either. But then again, I intend to live my life
to
the fullest too and not watch it go buy.

Buck
"bajaman" wrote in message
nk.net...
Jesus....some of you so called "boaters"....
A boat needs to have a nice big ass fire breathing big block in it to
even
be CALLED a boat! If you all don't like the sound, I suggest you crawl
aboard a sail-bote and leave the water to the rest of us...lol!
I've owned many different boats and with the exception of one (my first)
all
with big blocks, all with open exhaust....the way God intended.
The sound is good, and manly men appreciate this. Girly men don't...it
is
as simple as that. What....you'd put a muffler on a race car? You guys
want to hear loud? Go to some F1 races and hear those beautiful V10s
screaming at 18,000 rpm. Or go to some Top Fuel/Funny Car races. Loud
exhaust = good fun. But yes, it is up to the owner to have
consideration
for other more "sensitive" types, of course. No need to blow the
gel-coat
off someone else whilst idling thru the marinas.



"Jim Brinson" wrote in message
...
Those "dumb boats" most likely are illegal. Section 44 of the NYS
Navigation Law appears to restrict the type of operation you are
complaining about.
Of course having a law and enforcing that law are two different
animals.
Worse, I never found a significant difference in performance between
the
through transom setups and those that exhausted through the outdrive.
If you are talking about a thoroughly tuned racing setup then, sure
you
will have a performance advantage with reduced exhaust pressure. But
the
average consumer boat? Naw - its just the "look at me" syndrome that
****es people off rather than impressing them.
Good luck and good boating,
Jim


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Greg" wrote in message
...

I do agree these folks may be calling undue attention to boats. It
may
be

just

a matter of time before we are all running air pumps and catalytic

converters.


I brought up the subject because after being a chauffeur for my 15
yr
old
son and his friends for most of the day, I ran out of time to get
the
boat
in the water. So, I meandered down to the inlet where Irondequoit
Bay
meets
Lake Ontario. Every 30 seconds, one of these needle-dick boats came
blarping
through the inlet. Even at idle speed, it completely drowned out ALL
other
sound. I couldn't hear the guy standing 10 feet away from me, who
was
yelling about why these dumb boats aren't illegal.

Loud boats
 

No time to look that up. What does section 44 address? Noise? Exhaust
emissions from boats? Stupidity?

"Jim Brinson" wrote in message
...
Those "dumb boats" most likely are illegal. Section 44 of the NYS
Navigation Law appears to restrict the type of operation you are
complaining about.
Of course having a law and enforcing that law are two different animals.
Worse, I never found a significant difference in performance between the
through transom setups and those that exhausted through the outdrive.
If you are talking about a thoroughly tuned racing setup then, sure you
will have a performance advantage with reduced exhaust pressure. But the
average consumer boat? Naw - its just the "look at me" syndrome that
****es people off rather than impressing them.
Good luck and good boating,
Jim


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Greg" wrote in message
...

I do agree these folks may be calling undue attention to boats. It may
be

just

a matter of time before we are all running air pumps and catalytic

converters.


I brought up the subject because after being a chauffeur for my 15 yr
old
son and his friends for most of the day, I ran out of time to get the
boat
in the water. So, I meandered down to the inlet where Irondequoit Bay
meets
Lake Ontario. Every 30 seconds, one of these needle-dick boats came
blarping
through the inlet. Even at idle speed, it completely drowned out ALL
other
sound. I couldn't hear the guy standing 10 feet away from me, who was
yelling about why these dumb boats aren't illegal.

Loud boats
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jim Brinson wrote:

bajaman wrote:
Jesus....some of you so called "boaters"....
A boat needs to have a nice big ass fire breathing big block in it to
even
be CALLED a boat! If you all don't like the sound, I suggest you crawl
aboard a sail-bote and leave the water to the rest of us...lol!
I've owned many different boats and with the exception of one (my
first) all
with big blocks, all with open exhaust....the way God intended.
The sound is good, and manly men appreciate this. Girly men don't...it
is
as simple as that. What....you'd put a muffler on a race car? You
guys
want to hear loud? Go to some F1 races and hear those beautiful V10s
screaming at 18,000 rpm. Or go to some Top Fuel/Funny Car races. Loud
exhaust = good fun. But yes, it is up to the owner to have
consideration
for other more "sensitive" types, of course. No need to blow the
gel-coat
off someone else whilst idling thru the marinas.


A muffler on a race car? I think not; the noise is part of the
excitement. My company used to supply many of the pickup boats when the
unlimited hydros came to town. The noise was deafening! But then came
the turbines - much faster - Miss Budweiser blew by the old piston
boats. But it just wasn't the same. The noise added to the experience.
But that's racing - not pleasure boating.
And the pleasure that you derive with your increased db levels comes at
the expense of annoying most other boaters.
I sold many performance boats to people with fat wallets and the Mr. T
starter kits. So yes, I contributed to the problem. The waste of
resources (80 gph) and the intrusion on other boaters eventually
bothered me to the point that I could no longer effectively sell this
type of boat.
If it is a sign of manliness to not care about other people - then I
guess I just joined the ranks of the girly men. Sheesh! Such arrogance.

Good luck and good boating,
Jim


Sanctioned boat racing noise is one thing...it happens once in a while,
it's for entertainment value, those who are offended by it can do
something else somewhere else that day.. . but to have to hear the
dipsticks with the deliberately loud boats on a regular basis-blech.

Fortunately, there are places like the Adirondacks. Eleven days....total
peace & quiet, no TV, no phones, 24x7 fishing, and NO LOUD BOATS.

Loud boats
 

Hey Buck!
Is that you from the Putz's site ??? (I won't mention it since I don't want
some of these aholes there....leave them here w/ their Bayliners w/ Force L
drives, Sunfish sailboats, and imaginary Lobster boats )
Can't be that many Buck's around ;) ~~~~
Bomar

"buck183" wrote in message
...

"Larry Hill" wrote in message
...
If they were decent people they would use Silent Choice. Larry Hill



I actually haven't figured out what is more amusing, the fact that you
guys
are actually talking about boats on this forum, or the fact that you don't
have a clue about how these boats ACTUALLY operate.

Yes, most performace boats do have switchable exhaust of some sort
installed
on them. Not all, but most. What you have failed to mention is the fact
that these systems cannot be used above a certain RPM level. I realize
this
doesn't justify not using them while idling.

These boats are manufactured to perform at high speed. They have big
block
engines in them. They are going to be loud. We all have to pay taxes and
someday we will all die. Facts that we have to live w/ and move on. Get
over it.

Buck

Loud boats
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jim Brinson wrote:

bajaman wrote:
Jesus....some of you so called "boaters"....
A boat needs to have a nice big ass fire breathing big block in it to
even
be CALLED a boat! If you all don't like the sound, I suggest you crawl
aboard a sail-bote and leave the water to the rest of us...lol!
I've owned many different boats and with the exception of one (my
first) all
with big blocks, all with open exhaust....the way God intended.
The sound is good, and manly men appreciate this. Girly men don't...it
is
as simple as that. What....you'd put a muffler on a race car? You
guys
want to hear loud? Go to some F1 races and hear those beautiful V10s
screaming at 18,000 rpm. Or go to some Top Fuel/Funny Car races. Loud
exhaust = good fun. But yes, it is up to the owner to have
consideration
for other more "sensitive" types, of course. No need to blow the
gel-coat
off someone else whilst idling thru the marinas.


A muffler on a race car? I think not; the noise is part of the
excitement. My company used to supply many of the pickup boats when the
unlimited hydros came to town. The noise was deafening! But then came
the turbines - much faster - Miss Budweiser blew by the old piston
boats. But it just wasn't the same. The noise added to the experience.
But that's racing - not pleasure boating.
And the pleasure that you derive with your increased db levels comes at
the expense of annoying most other boaters.
I sold many performance boats to people with fat wallets and the Mr. T
starter kits. So yes, I contributed to the problem. The waste of
resources (80 gph) and the intrusion on other boaters eventually
bothered me to the point that I could no longer effectively sell this
type of boat.
If it is a sign of manliness to not care about other people - then I
guess I just joined the ranks of the girly men. Sheesh! Such arrogance.

Good luck and good boating,
Jim


Sanctioned boat racing noise is one thing...it happens once in a while,
it's for entertainment value, those who are offended by it can do
something else somewhere else that day.. . but to have to hear the
dipsticks with the deliberately loud boats on a regular basis-blech.

Fortunately, there are places like the Adirondacks. Eleven days....total
peace & quiet, no TV, no phones, 24x7 fishing, and NO LOUD BOATS.



Yeah. I'm hoping to get out on the Shenandoah soon for a day of canoeing
and sightseeing. The water levels are up, the rapids (the sissy rapids I
traverse) are churning, and there's hardly a better way to spend a day
on the water. Oh...no motorized boats where we canoe.

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

Loud boats
 

"bajaman" wrote in message ink.net...
Jesus....some of you so called "boaters"....
A boat needs to have a nice big ass fire breathing big block in it to even
be CALLED a boat! If you all don't like the sound, I suggest you crawl
aboard a sail-bote and leave the water to the rest of us...lol!


The ultimate floating phallic symbol. Lacking in the REAL phallic
department? No problem, just get a louder boat.

Loud boats
 

Many states have muffler and/or sound level pressure requirements.
http://www.nasbla.org/pdf/Model%20Ac...ting%20Act.pdf
http://www.nasbla.org/pdf/Nasbla%20Ref%20Guide%205.pdf

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Greg" wrote in message
...
I do agree these folks may be calling undue attention to boats. It may
be
just
a matter of time before we are all running air pumps and catalytic
converters.


I brought up the subject because after being a chauffeur for my 15 yr old
son and his friends for most of the day, I ran out of time to get the boat
in the water. So, I meandered down to the inlet where Irondequoit Bay
meets
Lake Ontario. Every 30 seconds, one of these needle-dick boats came
blarping
through the inlet. Even at idle speed, it completely drowned out ALL other
sound. I couldn't hear the guy standing 10 feet away from me, who was
yelling about why these dumb boats aren't illegal.

Loud boats
 

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 11:42:56 GMT, "bajaman"
wrote:

You and I both know that most of
the namby-pambys whining here secretly wish they had what we have.

================================

Naaah. I have no problem with going fast, I just don't feel the need
to make a lot of noise and annoy people while I'm doing it. You
wouldn't either if your sense of self worth and self esteem were a
little higher. Little kids like to make a lot of noise because they
haven't yet found any positive ways of drawing attention to
themselves. Take your boat offshore and make all the noise you want.
That's where it was designed to run.

Loud boats
 

S 44. Noise levels on pleasure vessels. 1. The provisions of this
section shall apply to the navigable waters of the state including all
tidewaters bordering on and lying within the boundaries of Nassau and
Suffolk counties.
2. (a) No person shall operate or give permission for the operation of
any pleasure vessel in or upon the waters of this state in such a manner
as to exceed a noise level of 90dB(A) when subjected to a stationary
sound level test as prescribed by SAE J2005.
(b) No person shall operate a pleasure vessel on the waters of this
state in such a manner as to exceed a noise level of 75dB(A) measured as
specified in SAE J1970. Provided, that such measurement shall not
preclude a stationary sound level test as prescribed by SAE J2005.
3. Sale or manufacture. No person shall manufacture or offer for sale
any pleasure vessel or engine for use in a pleasure vessel for use on
the waters of this state if such vessel or engine, at the time of
manufacture or sale, cannot be operated in such a manner so as to comply
with the sound level requirements provided in this section.
4. No person shall operate or give permission for the operation of any
pleasure vessel in or upon the waters of this state that is equipped
with an altered muffler or a muffler cutout, bypass or otherwise reduce
or eliminate the effectiveness of any muffler or muffler system
installed in accordance with this section.
5. No person shall remove, alter or otherwise modify in any way a
muffler or muffler system in a manner which will prevent it from being
operated in accordance with this section.
6. Exceptions. The provisions of this section shall not apply to
pleasure vessels designed, manufactured and sold for the sole purpose of
competing in racing events and for no other purpose. Any such exemption
or exception shall be so documented in any and every sale agreement and
shall be formally acknowledged by signature on the part of both the
buyer and the seller and copies of said agreement shall be maintained by
both parties. A copy shall be kept on board whenever the pleasure vessel
is operated. Any pleasure vessel sold under this exemption may only be
operated on the waters of this state in accordance with this section.
The provisions of this section shall also not apply to:
(a) Pleasure vessels which are competing in or participating for a
definite race over a given course held under the auspices of any bona
fide club or racing association between the hours of nine o`clock in the
morning and sunset, which has been approved pursuant to the provisions
of section thirty-four of this chapter, and all provisions of such
section have been complied with or pursuant to authorization by the
commandant of the United States Coast Guard.
(b) An authorized agent of the federal, state or municipal government
when operating a pleasure vessel necessary to carry out his or her
official duty of enforcement, search and rescue, firefighting or
research programs.
(c) A pleasure vessel being operated by a boat or marine engine
manufacturer for the purposes of testing and/or development.
(d) A pleasure vessel manufactured prior to nineteen hundred
sixty-five.
7. Any officer authorized to enforce the provisions of this section
who has reason to believe that a pleasure vessel is not in compliance
with the noise levels established in this section may direct the
operator of such pleasure vessel to submit the pleasure vessel to an
on-site test to measure noise level, with the officer on board if such
officer chooses, and the operator shall comply with such request. If
such pleasure vessel exceeds the decibel levels established in this
section, the officer may direct the operator to take immediate and
reasonable measures to correct the violation, including returning the
pleasure vessel to a mooring and keeping the pleasure vessel at such
mooring until the violation is corrected or ceases.
8. Any officer who conducts pleasure vessel sound level tests as
provided in this section shall be qualified in pleasure vessel noise
testing by the department of parks, recreation and historic
preservation. Such qualifications shall include but may not be limited
to the selection of the measurement site, and the calibration and use of
noise testing equipment.
9. Penalties. (a) Any person who fails to comply with the provisions
of this section shall be guilty of a violation punishable by a fine not
to exceed fifty dollars for the first offense and not exceeding two
hundred fifty dollars for a second or subsequent offense. However, the
court shall waive any fine for which a person who violates the
provisions of this section would be liable if such person supplies the
court with proof within thirty days of the issuance of the summons that
he purchased his pleasure vessel prior to the effective date of this
section, that the pleasure vessel`s muffler was not altered or made
inoperable so as to result in a violation of the provisions of this
section, and that the pleasure vessel has been repaired, altered or
modified so as to be in compliance with the provisions of this section.
Provided, however, that such waiver of fine shall not apply to a second
or subsequent conviction under this section.
(b) Any person who alters or makes inoperable an effective muffler
system so that such system is no longer in compliance with this section
shall be guilty of a violation punishable by a fine of not less than
fifty dollars nor more than two hundred fifty dollars.
(c) All fines and forfeitures collected pursuant to the provisions of
this section by any court, judge, magistrate or other officer referred
to in subdivision one of section thirty-nine of the judiciary law,
establishing a unified court budget, shall be paid to the state
commissioner of taxation and finance, within the first ten days of the
month following collection to be deposited in a fund known as the
boating noise level enforcement fund established pursuant to section
ninety-one-b of the state finance law. The office of parks, recreation
and historic preservation shall distribute the fines to local law
enforcement officials according to the provisions of section
seventy-nine-b of this chapter for the purpose of enforcing the
provisions of this section.
10. All fines and forfeitures collected by any other court, judge or
magistrate or other officer shall be paid to the state comptroller
within the first ten days of the month following collection to be
deposited in a fund known as the boating noise level enforcement fund
established pursuant to section ninety-one-b of the state finance law.
The office of parks, recreation and historic preservation shall
distribute the fines to local law enforcement officials according to the
provisions of section seventy-nine-b of this chapter for the purpose of
enforcing the provisions of this section.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
No time to look that up. What does section 44 address? Noise? Exhaust
emissions from boats? Stupidity?

"Jim Brinson" wrote in message
...
Those "dumb boats" most likely are illegal. Section 44 of the NYS
Navigation Law appears to restrict the type of operation you are
complaining about.
Of course having a law and enforcing that law are two different animals.
Worse, I never found a significant difference in performance between the
through transom setups and those that exhausted through the outdrive.
If you are talking about a thoroughly tuned racing setup then, sure you
will have a performance advantage with reduced exhaust pressure. But the
average consumer boat? Naw - its just the "look at me" syndrome that
****es people off rather than impressing them.
Good luck and good boating,
Jim


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Greg" wrote in message
...

I do agree these folks may be calling undue attention to boats. It may
be

just

a matter of time before we are all running air pumps and catalytic

converters.


I brought up the subject because after being a chauffeur for my 15 yr
old
son and his friends for most of the day, I ran out of time to get the
boat
in the water. So, I meandered down to the inlet where Irondequoit Bay
meets
Lake Ontario. Every 30 seconds, one of these needle-dick boats came
blarping
through the inlet. Even at idle speed, it completely drowned out ALL
other
sound. I couldn't hear the guy standing 10 feet away from me, who was
yelling about why these dumb boats aren't illegal.

Loud boats
 

Amazing. It's never enforced. Not only that, but these regs include the SALE
of such boats, but they're still sold in violation of the law.

"Steve Alexanderson"
Idon'tlikegreeneggsandspamIdon'tlikethemsamIamsal
wrote in message ...
S 44. Noise levels on pleasure vessels. 1. The provisions of this
section shall apply to the navigable waters of the state including all
tidewaters bordering on and lying within the boundaries of Nassau and
Suffolk counties.
2. (a) No person shall operate or give permission for the operation of
any pleasure vessel in or upon the waters of this state in such a manner
as to exceed a noise level of 90dB(A) when subjected to a stationary
sound level test as prescribed by SAE J2005.
(b) No person shall operate a pleasure vessel on the waters of this
state in such a manner as to exceed a noise level of 75dB(A) measured as
specified in SAE J1970. Provided, that such measurement shall not
preclude a stationary sound level test as prescribed by SAE J2005.
3. Sale or manufacture. No person shall manufacture or offer for sale
any pleasure vessel or engine for use in a pleasure vessel for use on
the waters of this state if such vessel or engine, at the time of
manufacture or sale, cannot be operated in such a manner so as to comply
with the sound level requirements provided in this section.
4. No person shall operate or give permission for the operation of any
pleasure vessel in or upon the waters of this state that is equipped
with an altered muffler or a muffler cutout, bypass or otherwise reduce
or eliminate the effectiveness of any muffler or muffler system
installed in accordance with this section.
5. No person shall remove, alter or otherwise modify in any way a
muffler or muffler system in a manner which will prevent it from being
operated in accordance with this section.
6. Exceptions. The provisions of this section shall not apply to
pleasure vessels designed, manufactured and sold for the sole purpose of
competing in racing events and for no other purpose. Any such exemption
or exception shall be so documented in any and every sale agreement and
shall be formally acknowledged by signature on the part of both the
buyer and the seller and copies of said agreement shall be maintained by
both parties. A copy shall be kept on board whenever the pleasure vessel
is operated. Any pleasure vessel sold under this exemption may only be
operated on the waters of this state in accordance with this section.
The provisions of this section shall also not apply to:
(a) Pleasure vessels which are competing in or participating for a
definite race over a given course held under the auspices of any bona
fide club or racing association between the hours of nine o`clock in the
morning and sunset, which has been approved pursuant to the provisions
of section thirty-four of this chapter, and all provisions of such
section have been complied with or pursuant to authorization by the
commandant of the United States Coast Guard.
(b) An authorized agent of the federal, state or municipal government
when operating a pleasure vessel necessary to carry out his or her
official duty of enforcement, search and rescue, firefighting or
research programs.
(c) A pleasure vessel being operated by a boat or marine engine
manufacturer for the purposes of testing and/or development.
(d) A pleasure vessel manufactured prior to nineteen hundred
sixty-five.
7. Any officer authorized to enforce the provisions of this section
who has reason to believe that a pleasure vessel is not in compliance
with the noise levels established in this section may direct the
operator of such pleasure vessel to submit the pleasure vessel to an
on-site test to measure noise level, with the officer on board if such
officer chooses, and the operator shall comply with such request. If
such pleasure vessel exceeds the decibel levels established in this
section, the officer may direct the operator to take immediate and
reasonable measures to correct the violation, including returning the
pleasure vessel to a mooring and keeping the pleasure vessel at such
mooring until the violation is corrected or ceases.
8. Any officer who conducts pleasure vessel sound level tests as
provided in this section shall be qualified in pleasure vessel noise
testing by the department of parks, recreation and historic
preservation. Such qualifications shall include but may not be limited
to the selection of the measurement site, and the calibration and use of
noise testing equipment.
9. Penalties. (a) Any person who fails to comply with the provisions
of this section shall be guilty of a violation punishable by a fine not
to exceed fifty dollars for the first offense and not exceeding two
hundred fifty dollars for a second or subsequent offense. However, the
court shall waive any fine for which a person who violates the
provisions of this section would be liable if such person supplies the
court with proof within thirty days of the issuance of the summons that
he purchased his pleasure vessel prior to the effective date of this
section, that the pleasure vessel`s muffler was not altered or made
inoperable so as to result in a violation of the provisions of this
section, and that the pleasure vessel has been repaired, altered or
modified so as to be in compliance with the provisions of this section.
Provided, however, that such waiver of fine shall not apply to a second
or subsequent conviction under this section.
(b) Any person who alters or makes inoperable an effective muffler
system so that such system is no longer in compliance with this section
shall be guilty of a violation punishable by a fine of not less than
fifty dollars nor more than two hundred fifty dollars.
(c) All fines and forfeitures collected pursuant to the provisions of
this section by any court, judge, magistrate or other officer referred
to in subdivision one of section thirty-nine of the judiciary law,
establishing a unified court budget, shall be paid to the state
commissioner of taxation and finance, within the first ten days of the
month following collection to be deposited in a fund known as the
boating noise level enforcement fund established pursuant to section
ninety-one-b of the state finance law. The office of parks, recreation
and historic preservation shall distribute the fines to local law
enforcement officials according to the provisions of section
seventy-nine-b of this chapter for the purpose of enforcing the
provisions of this section.
10. All fines and forfeitures collected by any other court, judge or
magistrate or other officer shall be paid to the state comptroller
within the first ten days of the month following collection to be
deposited in a fund known as the boating noise level enforcement fund
established pursuant to section ninety-one-b of the state finance law.
The office of parks, recreation and historic preservation shall
distribute the fines to local law enforcement officials according to the
provisions of section seventy-nine-b of this chapter for the purpose of
enforcing the provisions of this section.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
No time to look that up. What does section 44 address? Noise? Exhaust
emissions from boats? Stupidity?

"Jim Brinson" wrote in message
...
Those "dumb boats" most likely are illegal. Section 44 of the NYS
Navigation Law appears to restrict the type of operation you are
complaining about.
Of course having a law and enforcing that law are two different
animals.
Worse, I never found a significant difference in performance between
the
through transom setups and those that exhausted through the outdrive.
If you are talking about a thoroughly tuned racing setup then, sure
you
will have a performance advantage with reduced exhaust pressure. But
the
average consumer boat? Naw - its just the "look at me" syndrome that
****es people off rather than impressing them.
Good luck and good boating,
Jim


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Greg" wrote in message
...

I do agree these folks may be calling undue attention to boats. It
may
be

just

a matter of time before we are all running air pumps and catalytic

converters.


I brought up the subject because after being a chauffeur for my 15
yr
old
son and his friends for most of the day, I ran out of time to get
the
boat
in the water. So, I meandered down to the inlet where Irondequoit
Bay
meets
Lake Ontario. Every 30 seconds, one of these needle-dick boats came
blarping
through the inlet. Even at idle speed, it completely drowned out ALL
other
sound. I couldn't hear the guy standing 10 feet away from me, who
was
yelling about why these dumb boats aren't illegal.

Loud boats
 

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 15:41:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Dave: No comments from the peanut gallery.

I'm using the term "speedboats" to describe boats which sound like they
have
(and probably do have) a pair of 400+ cubic inch motors in the back? In
order to achieve their purpose (speed), is it absolutely necessary for
them
to be as noisy as they are, or are they just designed that way, in the
same
way some morons alter their motorcycles because "loud pipes save lives"?
And, when they're idling, why do they sound (and smell) as if the engines
are only firing on half their cylinders?


On a parallel noisy note, what about boaters with those f**cking yippy
dogs?

I'd love to shoot 'em, but I'd hate to miss and damage an otherwise nice
boat.

Loud boats
 

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 16:03:33 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Amazing. It's never enforced. Not only that, but these regs include the SALE
of such boats, but they're still sold in violation of the law.

=============================================

That's where we as ordinary citizens get involved. Laws get enforced
when citizens insist on it. Get organized and push the right buttons.
Our neighborhood was able to get enforcement action when we filed a
formal complaint with documented registration numbers, date, time and
place of occurence. The local PD was very courteous and responsive.

Loud boats
 

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 16:31:30 GMT, WaIIy
wrote:
On a parallel noisy note, what about boaters with those f**cking yippy
dogs?
==============

What about home owners with the same yippy dog that barks at every
boat passing by. We've got a few of those.

Loud boats
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 16:31:30 GMT, WaIIy
wrote:
On a parallel noisy note, what about boaters with those f**cking yippy
dogs?
==============

What about home owners with the same yippy dog that barks at every
boat passing by. We've got a few of those.


Wrap Hershey chocolate nuggets in enough ground beef to produce a 1/2" wall
around the chocolate. Sizzle in a frying pan long enough to sear the meat so
it doesn't fall apart. Toss into neighbor's yard whenever you feel like it.
I understand chocolate does quite a number on dogs.

Loud boats
 

Wrap Hershey chocolate nuggets in enough ground beef to produce a 1/2" wall
around the chocolate.

I understand chocolate does quite a number on dogs.

Not so's you notice. My dog ate about half of one of those 8" solid chocolate
easter bunnies and put the rest away for later. It didn't hurt him.
On the other hand dog owners might take a shot at you if they see you trying to
poison their dog. It only takes one dog owner to hang the jury.

Loud boats
 

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Wrap Hershey chocolate nuggets in enough ground beef to produce a 1/2"
wall
around the chocolate.

I understand chocolate does quite a number on dogs.

Not so's you notice. My dog ate about half of one of those 8" solid
chocolate
easter bunnies and put the rest away for later. It didn't hurt him.
On the other hand dog owners might take a shot at you if they see you
trying to
poison their dog. It only takes one dog owner to hang the jury.

I dunno. A vet once told me the holidays were really busy because of so much
chocolate sitting out in little dishes where dogs could reach up and grab
it. Maybe it depends on the size of the dog and the dosage.

A bullet in the brain would be more appropriate, but one might miss and
injure a plant. Can't have that.