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Loud boats
"Calif Bill" wrote in message news:b7vSc.18339 And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their tendency to think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of a power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25. If you are overtaking us it's your responsibility to stay clear. |
Loud boats
"Don White" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:b7vSc.18339 And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their tendency to think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of a power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25. If you are overtaking us it's your responsibility to stay clear. It is up to you not to make changes in front of another boat! If we are overtaking, the rules say we can expect you to hold course. Bill |
Loud boats
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:15:03 GMT, something compelled "Calif
Bill" , to say: attributions lost Nobody mentioned jetskis. Some places have outlawed jetskis. I don't think they should be prohibited, but I do think we ought to be allowed to shoot at them. And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their tendency (is) to think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of a power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25. If the sail boat is beating against the wind, you can expect these turns, especially if the sailboat in question is about to run out of water. But, much like a pedestrian has the right of way in a crosswalk, it's not always a good idea to step out into traffic. Creating a dangerous situation is *not* a provision of the rules of the road, and the overtaken boat is required to maintain course and speed until the situation is resolved. |
Loud boats
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:12:20 GMT, something compelled "Don White"
, to say: "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:b7vSc.18339 And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their tendency to think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of a power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25. If you are overtaking us it's your responsibility to stay clear. If you are overtaken, it's your responsibility to not do anything unexpected. |
Loud boats
If you are overtaken, it's your responsibility to not do anything unexpected. You are not paying attention to what he is saying. If you are in a power boat and are overtaking a sail boat or power boat you are the burdened vessel and it is your resposibility to pass with care...remember, you are responsible for your wake also. Granted the boats being passed should not do anything stupid BUT a sail boat under sail has the right of way especially if he is running out of room to tack. Larry Hill |
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"Steve Daniels" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:15:03 GMT, something compelled "Calif Bill" , to say: attributions lost Nobody mentioned jetskis. Not me. Some places have outlawed jetskis. I don't think they should be prohibited, but I do think we ought to be allowed to shoot at them. And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their tendency (is) to think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of a power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25. If the sail boat is beating against the wind, you can expect these turns, especially if the sailboat in question is about to run out of water. But, much like a pedestrian has the right of way in a crosswalk, it's not always a good idea to step out into traffic. Creating a dangerous situation is *not* a provision of the rules of the road, and the overtaken boat is required to maintain course and speed until the situation is resolved. We have the problem in SF bay, that the sailboats think they have the right of way over any power boat. They will cross in front of large container ship coming in the Golden Gate and state they are sail and have right of way. 2 points. One they do not have right of way over a restricted channel vessel and two, they are losers in the physics world of bigger mass wins. I have had them come out of the Alameda estuary channel, and turn right in front of me with sails up, and they still have the iron sail running. Then yell at me they have the right of way. Well, if they are in a crash, and hurt my $20,000 boat, they will find out that they are going to buy me a $100,000 boat. Both because they were under power, and 2nd, they have to maintain course as they are being overtaken. |
Loud boats
"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
"Steve Daniels" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:15:03 GMT, something compelled "Calif Bill" , to say: attributions lost Nobody mentioned jetskis. Not me. Some places have outlawed jetskis. I don't think they should be prohibited, but I do think we ought to be allowed to shoot at them. And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their tendency (is) to think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of a power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25. If the sail boat is beating against the wind, you can expect these turns, especially if the sailboat in question is about to run out of water. But, much like a pedestrian has the right of way in a crosswalk, it's not always a good idea to step out into traffic. Creating a dangerous situation is *not* a provision of the rules of the road, and the overtaken boat is required to maintain course and speed until the situation is resolved. We have the problem in SF bay, that the sailboats think they have the right of way over any power boat. They will cross in front of large container ship coming in the Golden Gate and state they are sail and have right of way. 2 points. One they do not have right of way over a restricted channel vessel and two, they are losers in the physics world of bigger mass wins. I have had them come out of the Alameda estuary channel, and turn right in front of me with sails up, and they still have the iron sail running. Then yell at me they have the right of way. Well, if they are in a crash, and hurt my $20,000 boat, they will find out that they are going to buy me a $100,000 boat. Both because they were under power, and 2nd, they have to maintain course as they are being overtaken. Ah, so all of a sudden you LIKE law suit lawyers? |
Loud boats
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:21:01 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . This will require focusing on the numbers in the paragraph. Imagine a body of water. It's between 50 and 200 feet deep everywhere, 4 miles wide, and the water's flat as a pancake with no wind. Imagine that it has an East side and a West side. For whatever reason, the fishing's terrific on the East side along the shore. There are 20 boats anchored or drifting in a zone from the shore to a half mile out. Not a sound. A penis boat is flying back and forth within 1/4 mile of those boats, over and over again, when it could be doing its thing on the opposite side of the body of water. Forget the wake. Pretend it does not exist. Focus on the noise. This is NOT what you like to call a "straw man". It's a perfect example of a strawman. It does not reflect reality. Sorry, Dave, but this refers to Lake George. The same scenario repeats itself on Seneca Lake, Cayuga Lake, Canandaigua Lake, Conesus Lake, and plenty of others. Guys run offshore performance boats there? Assuming that you're 100% factual, and have not injected any bias or prejudice into your "strawman", the fact that ONE guy acts like an idiot does not translate to the whole sport being subject to the same prejudice. The "one guy" must have a lot of cousins who think alike, because they're everywhere. I've never seen them on any of my usual haunts, which includes the Chesapeake Bay Why does the owner of the penis boat not understand the situation? You are projecting the actions of jetski's onto those of performance boat operators. Nobody mentioned jetskis. No but "back and forth in the same general area" is behavior typically associated with PWC operators. Those guys have obvious reasons why they like to congregate in a relatively small area. Guys who have performance boats can go much further, and in greater comfort, so it makes little sense for them to remain in the same area. Like I said before, it makes no sense. I don't even like going to a water way that's smaller than 7 or 8 miles, because I like to cruise. The only exception is when I'm pulling water toys. Then, I like to find a fairly protected cove or area, and use that. Dave |
Loud boats
Dave Hall wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:21:01 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message . .. This will require focusing on the numbers in the paragraph. Imagine a body of water. It's between 50 and 200 feet deep everywhere, 4 miles wide, and the water's flat as a pancake with no wind. Imagine that it has an East side and a West side. For whatever reason, the fishing's terrific on the East side along the shore. There are 20 boats anchored or drifting in a zone from the shore to a half mile out. Not a sound. A penis boat is flying back and forth within 1/4 mile of those boats, over and over again, when it could be doing its thing on the opposite side of the body of water. Forget the wake. Pretend it does not exist. Focus on the noise. This is NOT what you like to call a "straw man". It's a perfect example of a strawman. It does not reflect reality. Sorry, Dave, but this refers to Lake George. The same scenario repeats itself on Seneca Lake, Cayuga Lake, Canandaigua Lake, Conesus Lake, and plenty of others. Guys run offshore performance boats there? Assuming that you're 100% factual, and have not injected any bias or prejudice into your "strawman", the fact that ONE guy acts like an idiot does not translate to the whole sport being subject to the same prejudice. The "one guy" must have a lot of cousins who think alike, because they're everywhere. I've never seen them on any of my usual haunts, which includes the Chesapeake Bay You must not go out on the Bay very often, Dave, or you must stay in the little feeder creeks on the perimeter. Where do you boat when you go out on the Bay, Dave? Why does the owner of the penis boat not understand the situation? You are projecting the actions of jetski's onto those of performance boat operators. Nobody mentioned jetskis. No but "back and forth in the same general area" is behavior typically associated with PWC operators. Those guys have obvious reasons why they like to congregate in a relatively small area. Guys who have performance boats can go much further, and in greater comfort, so it makes little sense for them to remain in the same area. Like I said before, it makes no sense. I don't even like going to a water way that's smaller than 7 or 8 miles, because I like to cruise. The only exception is when I'm pulling water toys. Then, I like to find a fairly protected cove or area, and use that. Dave Ahhh..you're the asshole who was tearing up the little cove around Parker's Creek two weeks ago. -- "There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002 |
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On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:09:11 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: Dave Hall wrote: On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:21:01 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message ... This will require focusing on the numbers in the paragraph. Imagine a body of water. It's between 50 and 200 feet deep everywhere, 4 miles wide, and the water's flat as a pancake with no wind. Imagine that it has an East side and a West side. For whatever reason, the fishing's terrific on the East side along the shore. There are 20 boats anchored or drifting in a zone from the shore to a half mile out. Not a sound. A penis boat is flying back and forth within 1/4 mile of those boats, over and over again, when it could be doing its thing on the opposite side of the body of water. Forget the wake. Pretend it does not exist. Focus on the noise. This is NOT what you like to call a "straw man". It's a perfect example of a strawman. It does not reflect reality. Sorry, Dave, but this refers to Lake George. The same scenario repeats itself on Seneca Lake, Cayuga Lake, Canandaigua Lake, Conesus Lake, and plenty of others. Guys run offshore performance boats there? Assuming that you're 100% factual, and have not injected any bias or prejudice into your "strawman", the fact that ONE guy acts like an idiot does not translate to the whole sport being subject to the same prejudice. The "one guy" must have a lot of cousins who think alike, because they're everywhere. I've never seen them on any of my usual haunts, which includes the Chesapeake Bay You must not go out on the Bay very often, Dave, or you must stay in the little feeder creeks on the perimeter. Where do you boat when you go out on the Bay, Dave? I'm primarily in the upper end, where the water is still somewhat fresh. I can be found in the C&D canal, the Bohemia and Sassafras Rivers, and in Northeast and Charlestown Why does the owner of the penis boat not understand the situation? You are projecting the actions of jetski's onto those of performance boat operators. Nobody mentioned jetskis. No but "back and forth in the same general area" is behavior typically associated with PWC operators. Those guys have obvious reasons why they like to congregate in a relatively small area. Guys who have performance boats can go much further, and in greater comfort, so it makes little sense for them to remain in the same area. Like I said before, it makes no sense. I don't even like going to a water way that's smaller than 7 or 8 miles, because I like to cruise. The only exception is when I'm pulling water toys. Then, I like to find a fairly protected cove or area, and use that. Dave Ahhh..you're the asshole who was tearing up the little cove around Parker's Creek two weeks ago. No, wasn't me. But if it was, what of it? If I'm giving my family and friends a nice day of fun by pulling them around on various tubes and skis, who are you to critique it? Unless, of course, you're the owner of said area, in which case you have my sincerest apologies and assurance that I'll not be trespassing there again. Of course the signs warning unsuspecting boaters of this fact were curiously missing. Surely you're not about to make a value judgement based on nothing more substantive than your opinion again are you? Dave |
Loud boats
"Calif Bill" wrote in message nk.net... "Don White" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:b7vSc.18339 And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their tendency to think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of a power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25. If you are overtaking us it's your responsibility to stay clear. It is up to you not to make changes in front of another boat! If we are overtaking, the rules say we can expect you to hold course. Bill Maybe, but if the sailboat's approaching a hazard like a sand bar and HAS to turn, you may have to use common sense and let him do what's necessary. The hell with the law. |
Loud boats
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:24:54 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: Why would these people have a need to run them near people, instead of open water? How do you get to the open water? You don't have to go wide open to get there do you? But you can, so why not, if it's what you enjoy? Dave Because it is noisy, obnoxious behavior that can and often does intrude upon others. Your opinions are obnoxious behavior that intrudes upon others. So who are you to make value judgements? Most penis-boat-boys receive the well-deserved single-fingered salute when they roll by with their damned opened exhausts. Which is more than made up for by the "hi five" signs they get from others who appreciate the fine art of high performance. Dave |
Loud boats
"Steve Daniels" wrote in message
... On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:15:03 GMT, something compelled "Calif Bill" , to say: attributions lost Nobody mentioned jetskis. Some places have outlawed jetskis. I don't think they should be prohibited, but I do think we ought to be allowed to shoot at them. If I said that, I'd never hear the end of it. But, I agree. :-) |
Loud boats
Dave Hall wrote:
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:24:54 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: Why would these people have a need to run them near people, instead of open water? How do you get to the open water? You don't have to go wide open to get there do you? But you can, so why not, if it's what you enjoy? Dave Because it is noisy, obnoxious behavior that can and often does intrude upon others. Your opinions are obnoxious behavior that intrudes upon others. So who are you to make value judgements? Ahh, but there's a difference. If you think my opinions represent obnoxious behavior, you can filter me out or not read them, eh? But when assholes like you drive by in their unmuffled penis boats, one cannot filter you out. Your obnoxious behavior is right there... Got it? Which is more than made up for by the "hi five" signs they get from others who appreciate the fine art of high performance. There's nothing "high performance" about these overpowered stock boats. They're mostly just deep vees with huge modified car engines. What a yawner. -- "There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002 |
Loud boats
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... It's a perfect example of a strawman. It does not reflect reality. Sorry, Dave, but this refers to Lake George. The same scenario repeats itself on Seneca Lake, Cayuga Lake, Canandaigua Lake, Conesus Lake, and plenty of others. Guys run offshore performance boats there? Absolutely. Of the last 4 lakes I mentioned, the first 3 are quite large. Plenty of room to move. Conesus is too small for offshore boats, but that doesn't stop a significant number of fools from owning them anyway. Then, there's Lake Ontario. It's about 45 miles across, measuring north-south. There's a 10 acre spot a few minutes from where I launch. That spot's traditionally been a big attraction for fishermen. You meet 90 year old guys who say "Yip....if ya wanna git ya some bass, you wanna drift across the lumps right off from Hedges" (a restaurant clearly visible from the shore). On a dead-calm evening, in water that begins at 25 feet and drops off quickly to over 400 feet, can you explain why one speedboat after another has has to roar within a few hundred feet of a bunch of 14-20 ft boats? At the speeds they're going, they could move out a 1/2 mile in 30-40 seconds. Assuming that you're 100% factual, and have not injected any bias or prejudice into your "strawman", the fact that ONE guy acts like an idiot does not translate to the whole sport being subject to the same prejudice. The "one guy" must have a lot of cousins who think alike, because they're everywhere. I've never seen them on any of my usual haunts, which includes the Chesapeake Bay Look in a mirror. You seem to suggest that you think it's just fine to deliver lots of noise to people looking for quiet. |
Loud boats
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... When it comes to the subject of maximum performance, you either understand it, or you don't. Have you ever watched the things that car racing guys do to pick up an additional few MPH? We know all about it. But, if you drove most race cars on the street, you'd be ticketed or arrested, even if just for the noise some of them make. That's why there are race tracks. The same thing goes for the guys on water. What they do offshore is their business. The noise they sometimes choose to make around boats is everyone's business. And I use the word "choose" because based on what I've learned by reading some of the messages here, it's possible for such boats to be quiet with the use of certain mechanical devices. Therefore, if they choose not to be quiet, they fully intend to disturb. The only other possibility is that they're complete idiots. |
Loud boats
"Harry Krause" wrote in message news:2o1kraF5sfq2U1@uni- Ahh, but there's a difference. If you think my opinions represent obnoxious behavior, you can filter me out or not read them, eh? But when assholes like you drive by in their unmuffled penis boats, one cannot filter you out. Your obnoxious behavior is right there... I do have to agree you on this one. Your behavior is as obnoxious as an unmuffled high performance boat. |
Loud boats
"basskisser" wrote in message om... "Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net... "Steve Daniels" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:15:03 GMT, something compelled "Calif Bill" , to say: attributions lost Nobody mentioned jetskis. Not me. Some places have outlawed jetskis. I don't think they should be prohibited, but I do think we ought to be allowed to shoot at them. And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their tendency (is) to think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of a power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25. If the sail boat is beating against the wind, you can expect these turns, especially if the sailboat in question is about to run out of water. But, much like a pedestrian has the right of way in a crosswalk, it's not always a good idea to step out into traffic. Creating a dangerous situation is *not* a provision of the rules of the road, and the overtaken boat is required to maintain course and speed until the situation is resolved. We have the problem in SF bay, that the sailboats think they have the right of way over any power boat. They will cross in front of large container ship coming in the Golden Gate and state they are sail and have right of way. 2 points. One they do not have right of way over a restricted channel vessel and two, they are losers in the physics world of bigger mass wins. I have had them come out of the Alameda estuary channel, and turn right in front of me with sails up, and they still have the iron sail running. Then yell at me they have the right of way. Well, if they are in a crash, and hurt my $20,000 boat, they will find out that they are going to buy me a $100,000 boat. Both because they were under power, and 2nd, they have to maintain course as they are being overtaken. Ah, so all of a sudden you LIKE law suit lawyers? I actually have friends that are lawyers. Do you have any friends? And If they sink my boat and injure me, I am going to be made whole. |
Loud boats
Dave Hall wrote in message . ..
On 11 Aug 2004 12:27:38 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: Why would one who is not racing boats, need to make them as loud as possible, only to gain a mile or two an hour? Why does one have to race to enjoy going fast? I used to enjoy playing an occasional game of football when I was a kid, that doesn't mean I need to join a professional team. Where did I say that you shouldn't enjoy going fast? What I asked was, does one mile an hour give you that much joy, to have to have completely open exhaust? Jeez, if so, walk, three miles an hour should really excite you! If walking at 3 MPH excited me, I would 've bought a sailboat. When it comes to the subject of maximum performance, you either understand it, or you don't. Have you ever watched the things that car racing guys do to pick up an additional few MPH? The same thing goes for the guys on water. The biggest difference is that the legal speed limits generally make recreational racing illegal on the road. On the water, this is usually not the case. Guys are free to take part in impromptu "races" at any time. Obviously the drive to win will push these guys to use every resource at their disposal to make their boat as fast as possible (or that they can afford to spend). There is almost endless prop swapping, engine tweaks, waxing the bottom, cutting out excess weight etc. A race can be won or lost by 1 MPH. If you think that's silly then you don't get it. Nothing wrong with that, but don't denigrate those who do. Why would these people have a need to run them near people, instead of open water? How do you get to the open water? You don't have to go wide open to get there do you? But you can, so why not, if it's what you enjoy? Dave So, if I live next door to you, and I enjoy blasting my Studio Master loudspeakers outside, at 1 a.m., it's completely acceptable to you? |
Loud boats
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message nk.net... "Don White" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:b7vSc.18339 And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their tendency to think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of a power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25. If you are overtaking us it's your responsibility to stay clear. It is up to you not to make changes in front of another boat! If we are overtaking, the rules say we can expect you to hold course. Bill Maybe, but if the sailboat's approaching a hazard like a sand bar and HAS to turn, you may have to use common sense and let him do what's necessary. The hell with the law. We have them turn in front of power boats in the middle of San Francisco bay. No sandbar for at least 1 mile in any direction. Those who challenge the big freighters under the Golden Gate bridge are in 200'+ water. |
Loud boats
"Calif Bill" wrote in message hlink.net... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message nk.net... "Don White" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:b7vSc.18339 And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their tendency to think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of a power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25. If you are overtaking us it's your responsibility to stay clear. It is up to you not to make changes in front of another boat! If we are overtaking, the rules say we can expect you to hold course. Bill Maybe, but if the sailboat's approaching a hazard like a sand bar and HAS to turn, you may have to use common sense and let him do what's necessary. The hell with the law. We have them turn in front of power boats in the middle of San Francisco bay. No sandbar for at least 1 mile in any direction. Those who challenge the big freighters under the Golden Gate bridge are in 200'+ water. So, get on the radio and say something to the captain instead of bitching about it here. |
Loud boats
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message hlink.net... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message nk.net... "Don White" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:b7vSc.18339 And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their tendency to think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of a power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25. If you are overtaking us it's your responsibility to stay clear. It is up to you not to make changes in front of another boat! If we are overtaking, the rules say we can expect you to hold course. Bill Maybe, but if the sailboat's approaching a hazard like a sand bar and HAS to turn, you may have to use common sense and let him do what's necessary. The hell with the law. We have them turn in front of power boats in the middle of San Francisco bay. No sandbar for at least 1 mile in any direction. Those who challenge the big freighters under the Golden Gate bridge are in 200'+ water. So, get on the radio and say something to the captain instead of bitching about it here. They probably also do not listen to the radio. Sort of like your bitching here about politics. |
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On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:38:52 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: Dave Hall wrote: On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:24:54 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: Why would these people have a need to run them near people, instead of open water? How do you get to the open water? You don't have to go wide open to get there do you? But you can, so why not, if it's what you enjoy? Dave Because it is noisy, obnoxious behavior that can and often does intrude upon others. Your opinions are obnoxious behavior that intrudes upon others. So who are you to make value judgements? Ahh, but there's a difference. If you think my opinions represent obnoxious behavior, you can filter me out or not read them, eh? But when assholes like you drive by in their unmuffled penis boats, one cannot filter you out. Your obnoxious behavior is right there... You can always leave if it bothers you so much. It must really suck being someone who is so sensitive to others activities to the point that you would vocally oppose their right to enjoy life, because they "bother" you. Which is more than made up for by the "hi five" signs they get from others who appreciate the fine art of high performance. There's nothing "high performance" about these overpowered stock boats. They're mostly just deep vees with huge modified car engines. What a yawner. And once again, you demonstrate your extreme ignorance of the subject. Stick to language obfuscation, you obviously know little about mechanics or engineering subjects. High performance hull designs have evolved considerably in the last several years. There is much more to a high performance boat than an "Overpowered deep V". On the subject of engines, how many inboard engines do you know of, that aren't "modified car engines"? Nothing earth shattering about that revelation. Trying reading a little on the subject before you subject yourself to another helping of shoe leather.... Dave |
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Dave Hall wrote:
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:38:52 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: Dave Hall wrote: On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:24:54 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: Why would these people have a need to run them near people, instead of open water? How do you get to the open water? You don't have to go wide open to get there do you? But you can, so why not, if it's what you enjoy? Dave Because it is noisy, obnoxious behavior that can and often does intrude upon others. Your opinions are obnoxious behavior that intrudes upon others. So who are you to make value judgements? Ahh, but there's a difference. If you think my opinions represent obnoxious behavior, you can filter me out or not read them, eh? But when assholes like you drive by in their unmuffled penis boats, one cannot filter you out. Your obnoxious behavior is right there... You can always leave if it bothers you so much. It must really suck being someone who is so sensitive to others activities to the point that you would vocally oppose their right to enjoy life, because they "bother" you. Ahh, but this is the fallacy in your position. Folks enjoying peace and quiet, and some asshole with a loud boat comes by and shatters it all. And stays around. So...the folks who were enjoying the peace and quiet are the ones who should leave. -- "There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002 |
Loud boats
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:45:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . It's a perfect example of a strawman. It does not reflect reality. Sorry, Dave, but this refers to Lake George. The same scenario repeats itself on Seneca Lake, Cayuga Lake, Canandaigua Lake, Conesus Lake, and plenty of others. Guys run offshore performance boats there? Absolutely. Of the last 4 lakes I mentioned, the first 3 are quite large. Plenty of room to move. Conesus is too small for offshore boats, but that doesn't stop a significant number of fools from owning them anyway. Then, there's Lake Ontario. It's about 45 miles across, measuring north-south. There's a 10 acre spot a few minutes from where I launch. That spot's traditionally been a big attraction for fishermen. You meet 90 year old guys who say "Yip....if ya wanna git ya some bass, you wanna drift across the lumps right off from Hedges" (a restaurant clearly visible from the shore). On a dead-calm evening, in water that begins at 25 feet and drops off quickly to over 400 feet, can you explain why one speedboat after another has has to roar within a few hundred feet of a bunch of 14-20 ft boats? At the speeds they're going, they could move out a 1/2 mile in 30-40 seconds. No I can't, but there must be a reason, otherwise why do it? Assuming that you're 100% factual, and have not injected any bias or prejudice into your "strawman", the fact that ONE guy acts like an idiot does not translate to the whole sport being subject to the same prejudice. The "one guy" must have a lot of cousins who think alike, because they're everywhere. I've never seen them on any of my usual haunts, which includes the Chesapeake Bay Look in a mirror. You seem to suggest that you think it's just fine to deliver lots of noise to people looking for quiet. As opposed to demanding quiet from people looking to make noise? Another value judgement? Like in most things in life, people enjoy different things in recreation. In the area of boating, we all have one thing in common; a love of the water. Beyond that and the similarities end and the differences begin. Some people like hanging in a few selected places and fishing. Other people like harnessing the power of the wind and converting it into free propulsion. Others enjoy water toys. And even others like to run fast. Some people like a glass smooth water, others actually like chop. Where am I going with all this? The point is that many people enjoy different things on the water. Many of those activities clash with the activities of others. In order for everyone to get along to a reasonable degree, there has to be some sort of compromise. One of the first rules of compromise is not to automatically assume that "the other guy" has the responsibility to "adjust" all the time. Another important rule is to not set your expectations too high. You can't expect to venture out on a crowded waterway, and not encounter chop, wakes and some noise. Yet another rule is to put yourself in the other guy's shoes before you're ready to trash his particular activity. How would you like it someone was calling for restrictions on your activity simply because they were "annoyed" by it? "Ah!" you might say, "I don't have to worry, my activity does not bother anyone". Really? Try looking at it from the other guy's point of view. Name any boating activity, and I can assign some level of "annoyance factor" to it. One of the worst (arrogant) things you can do is make a value judgement of what someone else's activity is "worth", based on your perceptions of it. We all have the right to pursue our leisure activities to some degree, within the boundaries of public safety and welfare. That being said, some people flaunt their activities a little too much, and at inappropriate times. If you're running a loud boat, for God's sake, don't run it when the rest of the marina is sleeping. If you're sailing, don't cut over in front of an overtaking powerboat because you feel you can. If you like to fish, don't do it in the middle of a narrow transit channel, and then have the nerve to get angry when boats pass by and "wake" you to death. Waterskiiers and fishermen both seem to like sheltered coves to do their thing in. To the fisherman, the skiboat creates continual wakes and noise, and is a source of annoyance. To the skier, the fisherman is an obstacle in the way of his "course" and is also a source of annoyance. Boating is one activity were a little tolerance is sorely needed. You guys on the left are always touting the virtues of diversity and tolerance as healthy and enriches our culture. I find it curious that these same traits are not applied when it comes to our recreational activities. Dave |
Loud boats
Dave Hall wrote:
Where am I going with all this? The point is that many people enjoy different things on the water. Many of those activities clash with the activities of others. The answer, obviously, is to enforce the same sorts of noise restrictions on the water as are enforced on land. If you are within earshot of others in coves, creeks or on shore, effective engine muffling is required. If the penisboaters don't like it, they can always go offshore. Way offshore. -- "There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002 |
Loud boats
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:50:37 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . When it comes to the subject of maximum performance, you either understand it, or you don't. Have you ever watched the things that car racing guys do to pick up an additional few MPH? We know all about it. But, if you drove most race cars on the street, you'd be ticketed or arrested, even if just for the noise some of them make. That's why there are race tracks. Race cars, for the most part, are not street legal. There are stock classes which are, and there would be no problem. The same thing goes for the guys on water. What they do offshore is their business. Until you decide to fish offshore. Then the noise would "bother" you again. The noise they sometimes choose to make around boats is everyone's business. And I use the word "choose" because based on what I've learned by reading some of the messages here, it's possible for such boats to be quiet with the use of certain mechanical devices. Therefore, if they choose not to be quiet, they fully intend to disturb. The only other possibility is that they're complete idiots. Binary thinking. Not all (and in fact the majority of boats that I'm familiar with) do not have exhaust diverters. Mine doesn't, and most of my friends boats do not either. So there may not be a choice. And ironically, in the state of PA, they are considered illegal. I've installed baffles in my exhausts to take the edge off the noise. As I get older, I find less need to run at maximum speed, so I took the 1-2 MPH hit that the extra backpressure of the baffles created, in exchange for a more "audibly friendly" boat. But if I wanted to remove them, I'd have to remove a bolt from each pipe. Not practical for guys who need to be ready for an impromptu race at any given time. Dave |
Loud boats
On 12 Aug 2004 12:06:50 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:
Dave Hall wrote in message . .. On 11 Aug 2004 12:27:38 -0700, (basskisser) wrote: Why would one who is not racing boats, need to make them as loud as possible, only to gain a mile or two an hour? Why does one have to race to enjoy going fast? I used to enjoy playing an occasional game of football when I was a kid, that doesn't mean I need to join a professional team. Where did I say that you shouldn't enjoy going fast? What I asked was, does one mile an hour give you that much joy, to have to have completely open exhaust? Jeez, if so, walk, three miles an hour should really excite you! If walking at 3 MPH excited me, I would 've bought a sailboat. When it comes to the subject of maximum performance, you either understand it, or you don't. Have you ever watched the things that car racing guys do to pick up an additional few MPH? The same thing goes for the guys on water. The biggest difference is that the legal speed limits generally make recreational racing illegal on the road. On the water, this is usually not the case. Guys are free to take part in impromptu "races" at any time. Obviously the drive to win will push these guys to use every resource at their disposal to make their boat as fast as possible (or that they can afford to spend). There is almost endless prop swapping, engine tweaks, waxing the bottom, cutting out excess weight etc. A race can be won or lost by 1 MPH. If you think that's silly then you don't get it. Nothing wrong with that, but don't denigrate those who do. Why would these people have a need to run them near people, instead of open water? How do you get to the open water? You don't have to go wide open to get there do you? But you can, so why not, if it's what you enjoy? Dave So, if I live next door to you, and I enjoy blasting my Studio Master loudspeakers outside, at 1 a.m., it's completely acceptable to you? Ah, the classic strawman argument. Try comparing apples to apples. No, I would not like hearing your loudspeakers at 1 Am. I would not want to hear a performance boat in my marina at 1 am either. But at 1:00 PM it's a different story in either case. Dave |
Loud boats
"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message hlink.net... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message nk.net... "Don White" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:b7vSc.18339 And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their tendency to think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of a power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25. If you are overtaking us it's your responsibility to stay clear. It is up to you not to make changes in front of another boat! If we are overtaking, the rules say we can expect you to hold course. Bill Maybe, but if the sailboat's approaching a hazard like a sand bar and HAS to turn, you may have to use common sense and let him do what's necessary. The hell with the law. We have them turn in front of power boats in the middle of San Francisco bay. No sandbar for at least 1 mile in any direction. Those who challenge the big freighters under the Golden Gate bridge are in 200'+ water. So, get on the radio and say something to the captain instead of bitching about it here. They probably also do not listen to the radio. Sort of like your bitching here about politics. And sort of like you, bitching about EVERYTHING. |
Loud boats
"Calif Bill" wrote in message thlink.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message om... "Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net... "Steve Daniels" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:15:03 GMT, something compelled "Calif Bill" , to say: attributions lost Nobody mentioned jetskis. Not me. Some places have outlawed jetskis. I don't think they should be prohibited, but I do think we ought to be allowed to shoot at them. And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their tendency (is) to think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of a power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25. If the sail boat is beating against the wind, you can expect these turns, especially if the sailboat in question is about to run out of water. But, much like a pedestrian has the right of way in a crosswalk, it's not always a good idea to step out into traffic. Creating a dangerous situation is *not* a provision of the rules of the road, and the overtaken boat is required to maintain course and speed until the situation is resolved. We have the problem in SF bay, that the sailboats think they have the right of way over any power boat. They will cross in front of large container ship coming in the Golden Gate and state they are sail and have right of way. 2 points. One they do not have right of way over a restricted channel vessel and two, they are losers in the physics world of bigger mass wins. I have had them come out of the Alameda estuary channel, and turn right in front of me with sails up, and they still have the iron sail running. Then yell at me they have the right of way. Well, if they are in a crash, and hurt my $20,000 boat, they will find out that they are going to buy me a $100,000 boat. Both because they were under power, and 2nd, they have to maintain course as they are being overtaken. Ah, so all of a sudden you LIKE law suit lawyers? I actually have friends that are lawyers. Do you have any friends? And If they sink my boat and injure me, I am going to be made whole. So, you don't agree with excessive lawsuits, unless it's YOU that is raking the money in, huh? And, because I answer questions asked of me, instead of just asking another question, yes, I have many friends. |
Loud boats
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:35:21 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: Ahh, but there's a difference. If you think my opinions represent obnoxious behavior, you can filter me out or not read them, eh? But when assholes like you drive by in their unmuffled penis boats, one cannot filter you out. Your obnoxious behavior is right there... You can always leave if it bothers you so much. It must really suck being someone who is so sensitive to others activities to the point that you would vocally oppose their right to enjoy life, because they "bother" you. Ahh, but this is the fallacy in your position. Folks enjoying peace and quiet, and some asshole with a loud boat comes by and shatters it all. And stays around. So...the folks who were enjoying the peace and quiet are the ones who should leave. So you want to get philosophical on me eh? Is quiet simply the absence of noise? Or is noise simply the absence of quiet. Does someone's right to enjoy the absence of noise supersede another's right to enjoy the absence of quiet? Dave |
Loud boats
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:48:24 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: Dave Hall wrote: Where am I going with all this? The point is that many people enjoy different things on the water. Many of those activities clash with the activities of others. The answer, obviously, is to enforce the same sorts of noise restrictions on the water as are enforced on land. If you are within earshot of others in coves, creeks or on shore, effective engine muffling is required. If the penisboaters don't like it, they can always go offshore. Way offshore. If they can. It's tough to go "offshore" on a landlocked lake. Or maybe those who don't like a little engine music, can find another station to tune to....... Dave |
Loud boats
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:45:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . It's a perfect example of a strawman. It does not reflect reality. Sorry, Dave, but this refers to Lake George. The same scenario repeats itself on Seneca Lake, Cayuga Lake, Canandaigua Lake, Conesus Lake, and plenty of others. Guys run offshore performance boats there? Absolutely. Of the last 4 lakes I mentioned, the first 3 are quite large. Plenty of room to move. Conesus is too small for offshore boats, but that doesn't stop a significant number of fools from owning them anyway. Then, there's Lake Ontario. It's about 45 miles across, measuring north-south. There's a 10 acre spot a few minutes from where I launch. That spot's traditionally been a big attraction for fishermen. You meet 90 year old guys who say "Yip....if ya wanna git ya some bass, you wanna drift across the lumps right off from Hedges" (a restaurant clearly visible from the shore). On a dead-calm evening, in water that begins at 25 feet and drops off quickly to over 400 feet, can you explain why one speedboat after another has has to roar within a few hundred feet of a bunch of 14-20 ft boats? At the speeds they're going, they could move out a 1/2 mile in 30-40 seconds. No I can't, but there must be a reason, otherwise why do it? OK. Using the numbers I provided, which enable you to understand the navigational issues in this particular spot, come up with 3 possible reasons. |
Loud boats
Dave Hall wrote:
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:35:21 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: Ahh, but there's a difference. If you think my opinions represent obnoxious behavior, you can filter me out or not read them, eh? But when assholes like you drive by in their unmuffled penis boats, one cannot filter you out. Your obnoxious behavior is right there... You can always leave if it bothers you so much. It must really suck being someone who is so sensitive to others activities to the point that you would vocally oppose their right to enjoy life, because they "bother" you. Ahh, but this is the fallacy in your position. Folks enjoying peace and quiet, and some asshole with a loud boat comes by and shatters it all. And stays around. So...the folks who were enjoying the peace and quiet are the ones who should leave. So you want to get philosophical on me eh? Is quiet simply the absence of noise? Or is noise simply the absence of quiet. Does someone's right to enjoy the absence of noise supersede another's right to enjoy the absence of quiet? Dave Yeah, it does. There is no practical reason for a penisboat to be a disturber of the peace. Effective marine engine sound control systems are readily available. When we lived on the ICW in Florida, I reported a number of noise-offending boats to the County authorities and on several occasions, they chased down the obnoxious idiots and gave them a citation for violation of noise-control laws. Perhaps we need to work on such regs for Maryland. -- "There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002 |
Loud boats
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:50:37 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . When it comes to the subject of maximum performance, you either understand it, or you don't. Have you ever watched the things that car racing guys do to pick up an additional few MPH? We know all about it. But, if you drove most race cars on the street, you'd be ticketed or arrested, even if just for the noise some of them make. That's why there are race tracks. Race cars, for the most part, are not street legal. There are stock classes which are, and there would be no problem. The same thing goes for the guys on water. What they do offshore is their business. Until you decide to fish offshore. Then the noise would "bother" you again. Ummm....no. Then I realize I'm in their territory, and accept the consequences, just as I'd accept that I might have to stay out of the way of an oil tanker. This is not the same as a penis-boat child choking his chicken by buzzing repeatedly around a quiet cove. Then, he's in the wrong territory. |
Loud boats
Calif Bill wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:b7vSc.18339 And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their tendency to think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of a power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25. If you are overtaking us it's your responsibility to stay clear. It is up to you not to make changes in front of another boat! If we are overtaking, the rules say we can expect you to hold course. Bill In reality, there are things you don't know about sailing if you think that sailboats have the same freedom to manoevre as do power boats. The facts remain that it is impossible for a sailboat to persue, close with, and ram a powerboat. Vice versa not so. All you have to do is lean a little on the wheel, and keep clear. What's the big deal? In a narrow channel you should be going slow, anyway. The regulations say so, and they are right, because the depth, current and wind have a very great influence on sailors, influences to which most power boaters are completely oblivious, as many are to their wake. Please pass behind if you can. If you don't understand that a sailor may have no choise but to go about if his course and the wind are pushing him into water shallower than is safe, then you need some educating as to the nature of life on the sea, Billy. Sailboats are only one of the hazards you are expected to know about. Aargh! Nobody really wants to cause a collision just to annoy you. Besides, you must keep clear just as you would if you were passing another power boat. Would you want to pass close by at shocking speed just for fun? Would you take a chance that he would behave perfectly? Or, have you seen powerboaters that should be grounded, too? Please don't adopt the view that all sailors are out to annoy you. Go sailing with someone and see for yourself. Terry K |
Loud boats
JohnH wrote:
Harry, do you live so close to the water that the noise bothers you while typing? I've been on the water about two to three times a week since school let out. I've yet to see one of these noise makers where I fish. Yeah, well, you rarely go farther out than $3.00 worth of gas takes you... -- "There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002 |
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