On 07 Nov 2003 08:15:42 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

If anyone would like to see rec.boats returned to "boating", then say
so. Those of us who might be willing to go through the crap of Usenet
procedure will need your support to make it worthwhile.

Rules, schmules....Any restriction will ultimately require a moderator.

Not necessarily. Do you need someone to tell you how to behave in public?
Probably not--you were most likely brought up to observe certain societal norms
and mores, and observe them because, in The Real World(tm), life generally goes
quite a bit more smoothly when we are courteous to others.

Do you observe no-wake zones even when you know there's no law enforcement
around? Bet you do--because it's the *right* thing to do--and because real
people are likely to yell at you if you don't. But more because it's the right
thing to do.

"Somebody" has to judge whether the thread, "Our Heroic Leader, GWB, sent me a
Republican tax refund so I could afford to put tires on my boat trailer" is on
topic, or not. "Somebody" has to be able to pull the plug
on the handful of half-wits who post nothing but insults and/or profanity.
(assuming that insults and profanity aren't finally accepted as somehow
on-topic).

Here's a concept: "You" (generic "you") refrain from rising to the bait when
it's proffered. Why do threads last? Because "you" post to them--and "you"
means "Joe Parsons," too, obviously. When there's a general acknowledgement
that courtesy and civility are part of the societal norm in rec.boats, it
becomes much less likely that a thread like "[xxx], asshole of the Internet"
will garner almost 50 posts. I mean, *look* at yourselves, people! That was
such an obvious troll--and many got snagged by it!

The great thing about an unrestricted format is that the group reflects
*exactly* what the participants want it to be.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. And wrong. There is a phenomenon known as "mob rule," or
"pack mentality." We see it operating here, every day, in the majority of the
posts. Do you really think the handful of people posting to these many
"political" threads are representative of the real audience of rec.boats? The
audience that existed before being driven away. It's a little like the cuckoo,
which never builds its own nest, but lays its eggs into the nests that other
birds have built, and the chicks drive the other birds away, killing many in the
process.

It is precisely the sum total of
dozens of individual parts. It's always amazing to hear from some guy who
appears for the first time to say, "Well, I hung out here for a couple of
months but I didn't find anything really worthwhile and nobody addressed the
issues I'm interested in, so I'm outta here."

Don't see what you like here? Introduce it.
Post a question or a comment about your pet subject. Beats heck out of going
away disappointed.

That's a lovely theory--one I have advanced myself, dozens of times over the pst
15 years. But it just doesn't work, when you have an atmosphere that is so
hostile to reasonable, productive conversation.

There are any number of moderated and censored boards for boating. Boater Ed,
Hull Truth, etc etc etc. Those who insist on a tight structure and censored
posts can and should go there. The redeming aspect of an open forum is that
although you wind up shoveling through a lot of horse crap, more often than not
there is a pony 'round here someplace.

This assumes (incorrectly, I think) that there is any kid left to shovel through
the manure to find the hoped-for pony.

Joe Parsons

I'd be for leaving things as they are, with hopes that the worst offenders for
introducing political posts might consider toning it down a bit. I'll admit to
participating in the OT arguments and debates as much as anybody and more than
most- but I am nowhere nearly among the leaders in starting the OT balls
rolling.

A fair number of the folks who aren't boaters followed one of our regulars here
from other NG's, where he has apparently p'd off a few folks of opposite
political persuasion. I guess these people couldn't get enough arguing and
flaming to suit them in the jet ski group and others.

Suggestion: How about two continuous threads to contain *all* political posts?
One could be "Right Wing Fallacies and Enlightened LIberal Rebuttals", and the
other could be "Treasonous Left Wing Socialist Rantings and Patriotic
Conservatives' outraged reactions." Most NG readers probably work like mine and
separate posts by thread. If the RW or the LW thread has 215 posts in a day, so
be it. One click and those who have no interest can simply pass it by.

Not necessarily. Do you need someone to tell you how to behave in public?

Of course not.

And, funny thing, I'll bet most of the poison pen posters don't think they're
behaving badly (by their own standards, at least). One of that crowd recently
made some very childish remarks about the sexuality of some other posters, then
tried to deny he'd done so, and in the end said "well, you would have thought
it was funny if you had a properly developed sense of humor."
Do I suspect this is the way a guy like that
behaves when not on-line? Absolutely.

in The Real World(tm), life generally goes
quite a bit more smoothly when we are courteous to others.

It's dangerous to presume that others have
any interest in life going smoothly. Some kids just love to break things.

On 08 Nov 2003 06:52:53 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

Not necessarily. Do you need someone to tell you how to behave in public?

Of course not.

And, funny thing, I'll bet most of the poison pen posters don't think they're
behaving badly (by their own standards, at least).

That would surprise me. Most people, I believe *do* have reasonable standards
of behavior--especially as regards fundamental courtesy and civility. I think
it's a matter of how they choose to behave in a particular newsgroup.

One of that crowd recently
made some very childish remarks about the sexuality of some other posters, then
tried to deny he'd done so, and in the end said "well, you would have thought
it was funny if you had a properly developed sense of humor."
Do I suspect this is the way a guy like that
behaves when not on-line? Absolutely.

I don't disagree with you--but people who behave boorishly in Real Life may
simply take that behavior to extremes on Usenet, since there isn't the potential
for consequences here that there are IRL. Threats and posturing
notwithstanding.

in The Real World(tm), life generally goes
quite a bit more smoothly when we are courteous to others.

It's dangerous to presume that others have
any interest in life going smoothly. Some kids just love to break things.

You may be right. For my part, I'd just as soon assume that *most* people would
rather be in a courteous environment--and will take others to task for behaving
badly.

Peer pressure can be a powerful force.

Joe Parsons

Joe Parsons wrote:
On 07 Nov 2003 08:15:42 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

If anyone would like to see rec.boats returned to "boating", then say
so. Those of us who might be willing to go through the crap of Usenet
procedure will need your support to make it worthwhile.

Rules, schmules....Any restriction will ultimately require a moderator.

Not necessarily. Do you need someone to tell you how to behave in public?
Probably not--you were most likely brought up to observe certain societal norms
and mores, and observe them because, in The Real World(tm), life generally goes
quite a bit more smoothly when we are courteous to others.

Do you observe no-wake zones even when you know there's no law enforcement
around? Bet you do--because it's the *right* thing to do--and because real
people are likely to yell at you if you don't. But more because it's the right
thing to do.

Uh, who elected *you* the Ms. Manners of usenet?

--
Email sent to is never read.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 07:58:54 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Joe Parsons wrote:
On 07 Nov 2003 08:15:42 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

If anyone would like to see rec.boats returned to "boating", then say
so. Those of us who might be willing to go through the crap of Usenet
procedure will need your support to make it worthwhile.

Rules, schmules....Any restriction will ultimately require a moderator.

Not necessarily. Do you need someone to tell you how to behave in public?
Probably not--you were most likely brought up to observe certain societal norms
and mores, and observe them because, in The Real World(tm), life generally goes
quite a bit more smoothly when we are courteous to others.

Do you observe no-wake zones even when you know there's no law enforcement
around? Bet you do--because it's the *right* thing to do--and because real
people are likely to yell at you if you don't. But more because it's the right
thing to do.

Uh, who elected *you* the Ms. Manners of usenet?

Can I infer from this that you're one of the people who chooses not to observe
no-wake zones?

Joe Parsons

Joe Parsons wrote:
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 07:58:54 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Joe Parsons wrote:
On 07 Nov 2003 08:15:42 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

If anyone would like to see rec.boats returned to "boating", then say
so. Those of us who might be willing to go through the crap of Usenet
procedure will need your support to make it worthwhile.

Rules, schmules....Any restriction will ultimately require a moderator.

Not necessarily. Do you need someone to tell you how to behave in public?
Probably not--you were most likely brought up to observe certain societal norms
and mores, and observe them because, in The Real World(tm), life generally goes
quite a bit more smoothly when we are courteous to others.

Do you observe no-wake zones even when you know there's no law enforcement
around? Bet you do--because it's the *right* thing to do--and because real
people are likely to yell at you if you don't. But more because it's the right
thing to do.

Uh, who elected *you* the Ms. Manners of usenet?

Can I infer from this that you're one of the people who chooses not to observe
no-wake zones?

Joe Parsons


You can infer whatever pleases you. But that doesn't make your inference
correct or even proper.

--
Email sent to is never read.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 12:11:59 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Do you observe no-wake zones even when you know there's no law enforcement
around? Bet you do--because it's the *right* thing to do--and because real
people are likely to yell at you if you don't. But more because it's the right
thing to do.

Uh, who elected *you* the Ms. Manners of usenet?

Can I infer from this that you're one of the people who chooses not to observe
no-wake zones?

Joe Parsons


You can infer whatever pleases you. But that doesn't make your inference
correct or even proper.

Such an inference may well be incorrect; but it is certainly proper, in that it
is defensible.

Joe Parsons