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Obit: rec.boats
I've been hanging out here off and on for quite some time. I've met some good
people, made some friends, learned some things--even about boating--and, I hope, have contributed positively to this virtual community. It's well nigh impossible to avoid off-topic chatter in unmoderated newsgroups, and I don't think it's necessary to limit posts to topics that strictly involve boating. When we hang around the docks and marinas IRL, we certainly discuss many topics there. I have never complained about the "signal to noise ratio" in rec.boats. It would be hypocritical of me to do so, since I often post about things that depart from the nominal topic of the newsgroup. What I *have* complained about--obviously with no effect--is the consistently rancorous tone of many of these "discussions." If you identify yourself as "conservative," anyone holding a different view is somehow morally deficient, unpatriotic, irresponsible, even of questionable sexual orientation. If you consider yourself a "liberal," those others are "right wing trash," warmongers, liars, exploiters, fascists and worse. These "discussions" are not about politics, at all. They are about saying whatever you can think of to insult, demean and degrade the other "side." "Liberals" are accused of desiring the failure of our country's economy so as to further their party's political agenda; "conservatives" are said to be cynically aligning themselves with a war that was initiated for financial gain. Know what? There's some merit to each of these beliefs; people of good will and patriotism can and do believe that the current administration's course and policies are justified and correct. And people of good will and patriotism also happen to believe just the opposite. But here, where the combatants are for the most part masked in comforting anonymity, there is a near-perfect lack of civility. That's understandable, given that the constraints in face-to-face conversation that act as a sort of governor in "real life" don't exist here. Newsgroup veterans will say, "Just ignore the people and threads you don't like," and they'd be right--but the sheer volume of these consistently nasty threads creates a certain kind of atmosphere that is almost palpable. And there is a certain kind of morbid fascination that seems to drive us--any of us--to read some of these threads, if only to see just how far they will descend. I am every bit as guilty as anyone else of perpetrating (and perpetuating) these threads. Sure, my complaints are somewhat general--about the chronic logical fallacies, factual errors (especially about certain aspects of finance), and the fact that this kind of bickering serves only to reveal more unsavory aspects of people's personality than we might like to see. Yesterday, there was a post from an anonymous, thoroughgoing coward, attacking one of the regular participants here in the crudest personal terms. It is clear that this person--probably another rec.boats "regular" posting from an anonymous remailer--holds a different political view from the target of his abuse, even though his screeds are purely personal, delivered while cowering behind his remailer. People like this are part of the Usenet landscape, and easily ignored; there is no way that any reasonable person can condone this sort of behavior. Yet in that thoroughly ridiculous thread, there were posts from other people who identify themselves as being of the opposite political view from the target of the abuse--one of those even seemed (to my eye) to relish the abuse being heaped on another. To me, that's tantamount to condoning it. But that has become par for the course in rec.boats. It is about being able to score "points" against one's adversary--and, having done so, to gloat. It is certainly not about boats and boating. Will the newsgroup recover? I have no idea--but I do know that, for the time being, at least, it will go in whatever direction it will without me. Some of you may say, "No big loss;" but for each person like me, who has bothered to write about this when unsubscribing, don't you wonder how many others--people who might actually be interested in boats--have taken a quick look at the tenor of these posts, and simply split? Doesn't the conspicuous dearth of boating content bother anyone? One person acting alone cannot turn that around. Rec.boats has a long history as one of the first newsgroups on Usenet. Like most other newsgroups, it has been through its changes. Maybe it will be about boats again one day. I hope someone will drop me a line to tell me, should that happen. But for now, I am...out of here. Joe Parsons |
#2
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rec.boats
"Joe Parsons" wrote in message
... I've been hanging out here off and on for quite some time. I've met some good people, made some friends, learned some things--even about boating--and, I hope, have contributed positively to this virtual community. It's well nigh impossible to avoid off-topic chatter in unmoderated newsgroups, and I don't think it's necessary to limit posts to topics that strictly involve boating. When we hang around the docks and marinas IRL, we certainly discuss many topics there. I have never complained about the "signal to noise ratio" in rec.boats. It would be hypocritical of me to do so, since I often post about things that depart from the nominal topic of the newsgroup. What I *have* complained about--obviously with no effect--is the consistently rancorous tone of many of these "discussions." If you identify yourself as "conservative," anyone holding a different view is somehow morally deficient, unpatriotic, irresponsible, even of questionable sexual orientation. If you consider yourself a "liberal," those others are "right wing trash," warmongers, liars, exploiters, fascists and worse. Joe, I'm sorry about the signal-to-noise ratio going off the charts but there's a reason. We're in a highly charged period of deep division in the country and the it's precipitating exaggerated partisan politics. It started with the 2000 election and, subsided for a while after 911. But the country is heading in a direction that's causing more division than I've experienced since the mid-sixties. I, for one, can't help arguing the points. I'm really sorry we're losing you as you've been a voice of reason. Those among us who are more extreme in our views are likely to drive moderates out of the discussion no matter the forum and that's a problem. Here's an article from the LA Times that talks about what's happening in the country according to the Pew Research Center. I hope this improves before it gets worse but I'm not hopefull. The injection of religious themes into politics and public policy has served to polarize the country further. Survey Finds Americans Are Increasingly Divided Republicans make gains as their differences with Democrats on key issues grow more pronounced. By Ronald Brownstein, Times Staff Writer WASHINGTON - Across a range of domestic and foreign policy issues, the gap between the views of Republican and Democratic partisans is now wider than at any point in the last 16 years, a major new survey has found. The survey, by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, portrays a nation profoundly polarized between two political camps that are virtually identical in size but inimical in their beliefs on virtually all major questions. The center, which began measuring public opinion in 1987, found in its new poll that the disagreement between Republicans and Democrats was greater than ever on topics such as national security, the social safety net, big business and equal rights for minorities. "The extraordinary spirit of national unity that followed the calamitous events of Sept. 11, 2001, has dissolved amid rising polarization and anger," said Andrew Kohut, Pew's director. Since the terrorist attacks, according to the new poll, the share of Americans who consider themselves Republicans has increased to the point that the GOP, for the first time since the party's takeover of Congress in 1994, has drawn even with Democrats in public support. The poll also found voters split almost exactly in half on whether they intend to support President Bush or a Democrat in the 2004 presidential race - and dividing along the same lines of class, race, gender and religious attitudes as in the razor-thin election of 2000. "It is still the 50-50 nation," Kohut said. The poll measured the views of 2,528 adults, an unusually large sample, from July 14 through Aug. 5. The group polled another 1,515 adults from Oct. 15 through Oct. 19 to update opinions on Bush and the war in Iraq. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points for the October survey, and 2 percentage points for the questions posed in the summer. The survey captures several long-term shifts in the currents of U.S. politics. Among the key trends: Polarized Views Across a battery of 24 questions measuring political and policy attitudes, the survey found that the average difference between Republican and Democratic attitudes is about 50% larger than in the late 1980s. On specific issues, 72% of Democrats now say government should do more to help needy people even if that means a bigger federal budget deficit, while 39% of Republicans agree. That 33-point difference is the largest the poll has recorded. Likewise, while 69% of Republicans say the best way to ensure peace is through military strength, 44% of Democrats agree. That 25-point gap is also the largest the poll has recorded - and nearly triple the difference in polls taken as recently as 1997. The gap is also the widest it's been on the question of whether corporations make too much profit: Nearly three-quarters of Democrats agree, compared with just less than half of Republicans. Looking solely at white voters, the poll found 55% of Republicans compared with 34% of Democrats agreed that "we have gone too far in pushing equal rights in this country" - that, too, is the largest gap the survey has recorded. On other policy choices, the poll reported that more than four-fifths of Republicans believed preemptive war was often or sometimes justified, compared with half of Democrats. Similarly, while 85% of Republicans believed it was the right decision to invade Iraq, 54% of Democrats said it was wrong. On virtually all of these issues, independents typically take positions that fall in between the attitudes expressed by partisans. But there is some evidence in the survey that independents also are polarizing between those who lean toward the Democrats and those closer to the GOP. For instance, on both the peace-through-strength and government-aid-to-the-needy questions, attitudes among voters who lean Democratic or Republican are virtually indistinguishable from members of each party. Within this overall pattern of polarization, the survey found that Democratic voters moved markedly to the left since the Clinton administration. The percentage of Democrats who said government should do more to help the needy has jumped by nearly a fourth since 1999, while the share who accepted the peace-through-strength argument has plummeted by more than a fifth since 1997. That movement, analysts say, may reflect both the waning influence of Clinton, who offered a mostly centrist agenda, and the sharp Democratic backlash against Bush. Republican attitudes on these questions, although still predominantly conservative, have changed less in recent years. In their attitudes toward the political parties, Americans are increasingly dividing along lines of values. In 1987, Pew found about 7 in 10 Republican and Democratic voters expressed strong religious beliefs in their answers to questions meant to measure such attitudes. Today, the figures for Democrats are the same, while the share of Republicans with strong religious beliefs has edged up near 80%. Division in Values The study found religious belief is now as strong a factor as income in predicting which party voters will support. And like other recent studies, the poll suggests that religious practice may be an even stronger predictor of partisan behavior than religious belief. The survey found that one of the sharpest divides in attitudes toward Bush's reelection followed the frequency of church attendance. Overall, the poll found voters split evenly, 43% to 43%, on whether they would prefer Bush or an unnamed Democrat in 2004. But Bush led by 26 percentage points among voters who attended church at least once a week, and among those who attended either weekly or a few times a month. Those who attended church only once or twice a year gave the Democrat a narrow margin, while those who attended rarely or never preferred the Democrat by 24 points. That stark division tracked almost identically the pattern found by exit polls in the 2000 race between Bush and Democrat Al Gore. Growing Tolerance The poll reported greater tolerance since 1987 on several questions involving race and homosexuality. Although gaps still exist along party and religious lines, the trend toward tolerance is significant among both Democrats and Republicans, and the religiously devout and the secular. For instance, the share of Americans who believe "it's all right for blacks and whites to date" has jumped from 48% in 1987 to 76% now. The share who say school boards should have the right to fire known homosexuals has dropped from 52% in 1987 to 35% today, with the declines consistent across lines of partisanship, income and religious belief. Divisions remain greater on abortion, with half of Republicans saying they support stricter laws against the practice, while 70% of Democrats oppose such efforts. Partisan Balance Combining all of its surveys since the Sept. 11 attacks, the Pew Center found the two parties drawing almost exactly equal support from the public, with 31% of adults calling themselves Democrats and 30% Republicans. (The rest didn't identify with either side.) That's an improvement for the GOP since the late 1990s, when Pew surveys gave the Democrats a 6-percentage-point edge. Since World War II, polls by various organizations have found Republicans even in partisan identification with the Democrats only twice: toward the end of Ronald Reagan's presidency in 1988 and immediately after the GOP congressional landslide in 1994. Ominously for Democrats, Pew found gains for the GOP above the national average in several swing states, including Iowa, Michigan, West Virginia, Minnesota and Florida. |
#3
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rec.boats
"jps" wrote in message ... "Joe Parsons" wrote in message ... snip it all The truth is that some idiots who can't control themselves and are so arrogant that they feel that they can do what they damn well please wherever and whenever they want to attempt to further some dubious objective are so seriously polluting the newsgroup that the rewards of attempting to read it are approaching zero. It used to just be harry and skipper, and a few entries to the kill file alleviated that. Now it is a whole flock of idiots who have no self control or sense of responsibility. It's like spam, no matter how one filters the garbage swamps one. Is there some reason that the rest of us have to be subjected to this crap? Why don't you off topic posers take your stuff to DU or FR or talk.politics or alt.flame or anywhere but here? del cecchi |
#4
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rec.boats
It really amazed me to see the number of off-topic posts in this group. I
came here to learn about boats and boating. My questions were answered and the group was a big help. But wading through all the trash has become too much. |
#5
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rec.boats
I logged in this afternoon and there were 128 new posts. After deleting the
OT's there were 24. This ratio varies here but 5:1 isn't atypical. There are other boating newsgroups and in them I don't see any OT posts so it's not a necessary part of usenet. I remember other other non-boating groups in the past that somehow became a target of spammers which killed the groups. OT is spam and regardless of the specific ratio on a given day it constantly outnumbers on-topic posts. The "did not/did too" bickering and name calling leaks into boating related threads, you just have to look at the "trailer tires" thread to see an example of how the bile spreads. The mean spirited post by the guy using the remailer should have been ignored. It should have been left to die alone with no replies but instead it turns into a hot thread. That speaks volumes. Is it unpleasant enough to drive people away? Obviously it is. It can only be stopped by those who post the OT. It can only be stopped if they stop posting OT. It's pretty simple. |
#6
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rec.boats
Joe,
When you are right, you are so right! My boat is sleeping under a tarp until spring. I will be off the group until I am boating again. Mark Browne "Joe Parsons" wrote in message ... I've been hanging out here off and on for quite some time. I've met some good people, made some friends, learned some things--even about boating--and, I hope, have contributed positively to this virtual community. It's well nigh impossible to avoid off-topic chatter in unmoderated newsgroups, and I don't think it's necessary to limit posts to topics that strictly involve boating. When we hang around the docks and marinas IRL, we certainly discuss many topics there. I have never complained about the "signal to noise ratio" in rec.boats. It would be hypocritical of me to do so, since I often post about things that depart from the nominal topic of the newsgroup. What I *have* complained about--obviously with no effect--is the consistently rancorous tone of many of these "discussions." If you identify yourself as "conservative," anyone holding a different view is somehow morally deficient, unpatriotic, irresponsible, even of questionable sexual orientation. If you consider yourself a "liberal," those others are "right wing trash," warmongers, liars, exploiters, fascists and worse. These "discussions" are not about politics, at all. They are about saying whatever you can think of to insult, demean and degrade the other "side." "Liberals" are accused of desiring the failure of our country's economy so as to further their party's political agenda; "conservatives" are said to be cynically aligning themselves with a war that was initiated for financial gain. Know what? There's some merit to each of these beliefs; people of good will and patriotism can and do believe that the current administration's course and policies are justified and correct. And people of good will and patriotism also happen to believe just the opposite. But here, where the combatants are for the most part masked in comforting anonymity, there is a near-perfect lack of civility. That's understandable, given that the constraints in face-to-face conversation that act as a sort of governor in "real life" don't exist here. Newsgroup veterans will say, "Just ignore the people and threads you don't like," and they'd be right--but the sheer volume of these consistently nasty threads creates a certain kind of atmosphere that is almost palpable. And there is a certain kind of morbid fascination that seems to drive us--any of us--to read some of these threads, if only to see just how far they will descend. I am every bit as guilty as anyone else of perpetrating (and perpetuating) these threads. Sure, my complaints are somewhat general--about the chronic logical fallacies, factual errors (especially about certain aspects of finance), and the fact that this kind of bickering serves only to reveal more unsavory aspects of people's personality than we might like to see. Yesterday, there was a post from an anonymous, thoroughgoing coward, attacking one of the regular participants here in the crudest personal terms. It is clear that this person--probably another rec.boats "regular" posting from an anonymous remailer--holds a different political view from the target of his abuse, even though his screeds are purely personal, delivered while cowering behind his remailer. People like this are part of the Usenet landscape, and easily ignored; there is no way that any reasonable person can condone this sort of behavior. Yet in that thoroughly ridiculous thread, there were posts from other people who identify themselves as being of the opposite political view from the target of the abuse--one of those even seemed (to my eye) to relish the abuse being heaped on another. To me, that's tantamount to condoning it. But that has become par for the course in rec.boats. It is about being able to score "points" against one's adversary--and, having done so, to gloat. It is certainly not about boats and boating. Will the newsgroup recover? I have no idea--but I do know that, for the time being, at least, it will go in whatever direction it will without me. Some of you may say, "No big loss;" but for each person like me, who has bothered to write about this when unsubscribing, don't you wonder how many others--people who might actually be interested in boats--have taken a quick look at the tenor of these posts, and simply split? Doesn't the conspicuous dearth of boating content bother anyone? One person acting alone cannot turn that around. Rec.boats has a long history as one of the first newsgroups on Usenet. Like most other newsgroups, it has been through its changes. Maybe it will be about boats again one day. I hope someone will drop me a line to tell me, should that happen. But for now, I am...out of here. Joe Parsons |
#7
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Obit: rec.boats
On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 20:05:42 GMT, Joe Parsons
wrote: I've been hanging out here off and on for quite some time. I've met some good people, made some friends, learned some things--even about boating--and, I hope, have contributed positively to this virtual community. It's well nigh impossible to avoid off-topic chatter in unmoderated newsgroups, and I don't think it's necessary to limit posts to topics that strictly involve boating. When we hang around the docks and marinas IRL, we certainly discuss many topics there. I have never complained about the "signal to noise ratio" in rec.boats. It would be hypocritical of me to do so, since I often post about things that depart from the nominal topic of the newsgroup. What I *have* complained about--obviously with no effect--is the consistently rancorous tone of many of these "discussions." If you identify yourself as "conservative," anyone holding a different view is somehow morally deficient, unpatriotic, irresponsible, even of questionable sexual orientation. If you consider yourself a "liberal," those others are "right wing trash," warmongers, liars, exploiters, fascists and worse. These "discussions" are not about politics, at all. They are about saying whatever you can think of to insult, demean and degrade the other "side." "Liberals" are accused of desiring the failure of our country's economy so as to further their party's political agenda; "conservatives" are said to be cynically aligning themselves with a war that was initiated for financial gain. Know what? There's some merit to each of these beliefs; people of good will and patriotism can and do believe that the current administration's course and policies are justified and correct. And people of good will and patriotism also happen to believe just the opposite. But here, where the combatants are for the most part masked in comforting anonymity, there is a near-perfect lack of civility. That's understandable, given that the constraints in face-to-face conversation that act as a sort of governor in "real life" don't exist here. Newsgroup veterans will say, "Just ignore the people and threads you don't like," and they'd be right--but the sheer volume of these consistently nasty threads creates a certain kind of atmosphere that is almost palpable. And there is a certain kind of morbid fascination that seems to drive us--any of us--to read some of these threads, if only to see just how far they will descend. I am every bit as guilty as anyone else of perpetrating (and perpetuating) these threads. Sure, my complaints are somewhat general--about the chronic logical fallacies, factual errors (especially about certain aspects of finance), and the fact that this kind of bickering serves only to reveal more unsavory aspects of people's personality than we might like to see. Yesterday, there was a post from an anonymous, thoroughgoing coward, attacking one of the regular participants here in the crudest personal terms. It is clear that this person--probably another rec.boats "regular" posting from an anonymous remailer--holds a different political view from the target of his abuse, even though his screeds are purely personal, delivered while cowering behind his remailer. People like this are part of the Usenet landscape, and easily ignored; there is no way that any reasonable person can condone this sort of behavior. Yet in that thoroughly ridiculous thread, there were posts from other people who identify themselves as being of the opposite political view from the target of the abuse--one of those even seemed (to my eye) to relish the abuse being heaped on another. To me, that's tantamount to condoning it. But that has become par for the course in rec.boats. It is about being able to score "points" against one's adversary--and, having done so, to gloat. It is certainly not about boats and boating. Will the newsgroup recover? I have no idea--but I do know that, for the time being, at least, it will go in whatever direction it will without me. Some of you may say, "No big loss;" but for each person like me, who has bothered to write about this when unsubscribing, don't you wonder how many others--people who might actually be interested in boats--have taken a quick look at the tenor of these posts, and simply split? Doesn't the conspicuous dearth of boating content bother anyone? One person acting alone cannot turn that around. Rec.boats has a long history as one of the first newsgroups on Usenet. Like most other newsgroups, it has been through its changes. Maybe it will be about boats again one day. I hope someone will drop me a line to tell me, should that happen. But for now, I am...out of here. Joe Parsons All of you could make a difference here. When I first offered to try to create rec.boats.lounge (or something similar) to welcome the OT posting, the support I got was from "average-joe" boaters. People who didn't come here every day, but when they did, they were discouraged by all the OT. The response was appreciated, but probably not effective enough to make a change. With one (1) exception, no newsgroup "reg" supported my proposal. Since changes or additions to the newsgroup heirarchy must be proposed, defended, and voted on, I didn't think there was enough support to be worth the effort. I'm still not sure, since only one "reg" has bothered to write. If you believe that rec.boats deserves better, then speak up! My email is valid, just get past the spamtrap. Don't bitch about it. Do something about it. Get off your butt and help, or at least give your opinion concerning the group. No vote will succede without advice and support from the regs. Regards, Regards, noah To email me, remove the "OT-" from wrecked.ot-boats.noah. ....as you were. ) |
#8
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Obit: rec.boats
Sorry to see you go Joe.
CF Joe Parsons wrote: I've been hanging out here off and on for quite some time. I've met some good people, made some friends, learned some things--even about boating--and, I hope, have contributed positively to this virtual community. It's well nigh impossible to avoid off-topic chatter in unmoderated newsgroups, and I don't think it's necessary to limit posts to topics that strictly involve boating. When we hang around the docks and marinas IRL, we certainly discuss many topics there. I have never complained about the "signal to noise ratio" in rec.boats. It would be hypocritical of me to do so, since I often post about things that depart from the nominal topic of the newsgroup. What I *have* complained about--obviously with no effect--is the consistently rancorous tone of many of these "discussions." If you identify yourself as "conservative," anyone holding a different view is somehow morally deficient, unpatriotic, irresponsible, even of questionable sexual orientation. If you consider yourself a "liberal," those others are "right wing trash," warmongers, liars, exploiters, fascists and worse. These "discussions" are not about politics, at all. They are about saying whatever you can think of to insult, demean and degrade the other "side." "Liberals" are accused of desiring the failure of our country's economy so as to further their party's political agenda; "conservatives" are said to be cynically aligning themselves with a war that was initiated for financial gain. Know what? There's some merit to each of these beliefs; people of good will and patriotism can and do believe that the current administration's course and policies are justified and correct. And people of good will and patriotism also happen to believe just the opposite. But here, where the combatants are for the most part masked in comforting anonymity, there is a near-perfect lack of civility. That's understandable, given that the constraints in face-to-face conversation that act as a sort of governor in "real life" don't exist here. Newsgroup veterans will say, "Just ignore the people and threads you don't like," and they'd be right--but the sheer volume of these consistently nasty threads creates a certain kind of atmosphere that is almost palpable. And there is a certain kind of morbid fascination that seems to drive us--any of us--to read some of these threads, if only to see just how far they will descend. I am every bit as guilty as anyone else of perpetrating (and perpetuating) these threads. Sure, my complaints are somewhat general--about the chronic logical fallacies, factual errors (especially about certain aspects of finance), and the fact that this kind of bickering serves only to reveal more unsavory aspects of people's personality than we might like to see. Yesterday, there was a post from an anonymous, thoroughgoing coward, attacking one of the regular participants here in the crudest personal terms. It is clear that this person--probably another rec.boats "regular" posting from an anonymous remailer--holds a different political view from the target of his abuse, even though his screeds are purely personal, delivered while cowering behind his remailer. People like this are part of the Usenet landscape, and easily ignored; there is no way that any reasonable person can condone this sort of behavior. Yet in that thoroughly ridiculous thread, there were posts from other people who identify themselves as being of the opposite political view from the target of the abuse--one of those even seemed (to my eye) to relish the abuse being heaped on another. To me, that's tantamount to condoning it. But that has become par for the course in rec.boats. It is about being able to score "points" against one's adversary--and, having done so, to gloat. It is certainly not about boats and boating. Will the newsgroup recover? I have no idea--but I do know that, for the time being, at least, it will go in whatever direction it will without me. Some of you may say, "No big loss;" but for each person like me, who has bothered to write about this when unsubscribing, don't you wonder how many others--people who might actually be interested in boats--have taken a quick look at the tenor of these posts, and simply split? Doesn't the conspicuous dearth of boating content bother anyone? One person acting alone cannot turn that around. Rec.boats has a long history as one of the first newsgroups on Usenet. Like most other newsgroups, it has been through its changes. Maybe it will be about boats again one day. I hope someone will drop me a line to tell me, should that happen. But for now, I am...out of here. Joe Parsons |
#9
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Obit: rec.boats
On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 20:05:42 GMT, Joe Parsons
wrote: I've been hanging out here off and on for quite some time. I've met some good people, made some friends, learned some things--even about boating--and, I hope, have contributed positively to this virtual community. It's well nigh impossible to avoid off-topic chatter in unmoderated newsgroups, and I don't think it's necessary to limit posts to topics that strictly involve boating. When we hang around the docks and marinas IRL, we certainly discuss many topics there. I have never complained about the "signal to noise ratio" in rec.boats. It would be hypocritical of me to do so, since I often post about things that depart from the nominal topic of the newsgroup. What I *have* complained about--obviously with no effect--is the consistently rancorous tone of many of these "discussions." If you identify yourself as "conservative," anyone holding a different view is somehow morally deficient, unpatriotic, irresponsible, even of questionable sexual orientation. If you consider yourself a "liberal," those others are "right wing trash," warmongers, liars, exploiters, fascists and worse. These "discussions" are not about politics, at all. They are about saying whatever you can think of to insult, demean and degrade the other "side." "Liberals" are accused of desiring the failure of our country's economy so as to further their party's political agenda; "conservatives" are said to be cynically aligning themselves with a war that was initiated for financial gain. Know what? There's some merit to each of these beliefs; people of good will and patriotism can and do believe that the current administration's course and policies are justified and correct. And people of good will and patriotism also happen to believe just the opposite. But here, where the combatants are for the most part masked in comforting anonymity, there is a near-perfect lack of civility. That's understandable, given that the constraints in face-to-face conversation that act as a sort of governor in "real life" don't exist here. Newsgroup veterans will say, "Just ignore the people and threads you don't like," and they'd be right--but the sheer volume of these consistently nasty threads creates a certain kind of atmosphere that is almost palpable. And there is a certain kind of morbid fascination that seems to drive us--any of us--to read some of these threads, if only to see just how far they will descend. I am every bit as guilty as anyone else of perpetrating (and perpetuating) these threads. Sure, my complaints are somewhat general--about the chronic logical fallacies, factual errors (especially about certain aspects of finance), and the fact that this kind of bickering serves only to reveal more unsavory aspects of people's personality than we might like to see. Yesterday, there was a post from an anonymous, thoroughgoing coward, attacking one of the regular participants here in the crudest personal terms. It is clear that this person--probably another rec.boats "regular" posting from an anonymous remailer--holds a different political view from the target of his abuse, even though his screeds are purely personal, delivered while cowering behind his remailer. People like this are part of the Usenet landscape, and easily ignored; there is no way that any reasonable person can condone this sort of behavior. Yet in that thoroughly ridiculous thread, there were posts from other people who identify themselves as being of the opposite political view from the target of the abuse--one of those even seemed (to my eye) to relish the abuse being heaped on another. To me, that's tantamount to condoning it. But that has become par for the course in rec.boats. It is about being able to score "points" against one's adversary--and, having done so, to gloat. It is certainly not about boats and boating. Will the newsgroup recover? I have no idea--but I do know that, for the time being, at least, it will go in whatever direction it will without me. Some of you may say, "No big loss;" but for each person like me, who has bothered to write about this when unsubscribing, don't you wonder how many others--people who might actually be interested in boats--have taken a quick look at the tenor of these posts, and simply split? Doesn't the conspicuous dearth of boating content bother anyone? One person acting alone cannot turn that around. Rec.boats has a long history as one of the first newsgroups on Usenet. Like most other newsgroups, it has been through its changes. Maybe it will be about boats again one day. I hope someone will drop me a line to tell me, should that happen. But for now, I am...out of here. Joe Parsons Joe, on a personal level, you are an asset to this group. Aside from the fact that I like your prose, the group needs people that care about "the group". Without advocates, this group could easily become a total spam dump. It is happening already. If regs want to talk OT, then let's create a welcome forum for it, not burn down our own house because of it, or drown rec.boats in OT posts. There is room for everyone, and every viewpoint, but only if there is some basic cooperation and respect. If you need a break, enjoy it. I hope that you'll come back with a new energy and focus to help get this group back to "boating". Regards, Regards, noah To email me, remove the "OT-" from wrecked.ot-boats.noah. ....as you were. ) |
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rec.boats
"Joe Parsons" wrote... I've been hanging out here off and on for quite some time. I've met some good people, made some friends, learned some things--even about boating--and, I hope, have contributed positively to this virtual community. [trimmed] But for now, I am...out of here. Joe Parsons Sorry to see you go Joe, I've appreciated your thoughts. Take care. -rick- |
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