On 4/21/2021 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 4:23 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies
and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic
stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted.
Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your
rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc)
They are not going to give that up.

Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a
traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and
a smile on his face?



Every case of a serial killer on the loose that I've read about
results in a dedicated and massive manhunt for the
person. Cops don't start stopping every car on the road
searching for him.

You have never heard about a roadblock perimeter around a crime scene?

Hell they set up roadblocks to look for drunk drivers. Everyone gets
stopped and interrogated. There is no presumption of innocence there.

They will even stop vehicles towing boats coming up out of the keys
during mini season looking for illegal lobsters.

You give up many rights as soon as you get in your car and the courts
uphold it. I think a lot of it is wrong but I have to live in the
world we have, not the one Jefferson dreamed of.



Difference is in your statement:

"You have never heard about a roadblock perimeter around a crime scene?
Hell they set up roadblocks to look for drunk drivers. Everyone gets
stopped and interrogated. There is no presumption of innocence there.

"Everyone" isn't a search via racial profiling.


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On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 5:20:13 PM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/21/2021 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 4:23 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies
and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic
stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted.
Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your
rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc)
They are not going to give that up.

Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a
traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and
a smile on his face?



Every case of a serial killer on the loose that I've read about
results in a dedicated and massive manhunt for the
person. Cops don't start stopping every car on the road
searching for him.

You have never heard about a roadblock perimeter around a crime scene?

Hell they set up roadblocks to look for drunk drivers. Everyone gets
stopped and interrogated. There is no presumption of innocence there.

They will even stop vehicles towing boats coming up out of the keys
during mini season looking for illegal lobsters.

You give up many rights as soon as you get in your car and the courts
uphold it. I think a lot of it is wrong but I have to live in the
world we have, not the one Jefferson dreamed of.

Difference is in your statement:
"You have never heard about a roadblock perimeter around a crime scene?
Hell they set up roadblocks to look for drunk drivers. Everyone gets
stopped and interrogated. There is no presumption of innocence there.
"Everyone" isn't a search via racial profiling.

So you want a "dedicated and massive manhunt" for every warrant? Prepare
to pay double your taxes and hire twice as many police. Oh wait, we're getting
rid of police, remember?

The cheapest, most effective tool is to check for warrants at a traffic stop. If
the perp is guilty, they often fight back or run. Traffic stops aren't a racial
profiled stop. The vast majority of the time they are justified. In the few times
I've been stopped i simply complied, was either issued a ticket or a warning, and was
sent on my way. No chase, no shots fired, no drama. Oh, and no warrant.
If everyone acted that way there would be no issue. But there is an element of
society that will not act like they have some "home schooling" (because they don't),
and they act out when it happens to them. Bad things happen to bad people.

I'm not sure why you want that element on the street, giving them a free ride, but please
keep it up there in the NE.

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 17:20:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/21/2021 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 4:23 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies
and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic
stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted.
Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your
rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc)
They are not going to give that up.

Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a
traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and
a smile on his face?



Every case of a serial killer on the loose that I've read about
results in a dedicated and massive manhunt for the
person. Cops don't start stopping every car on the road
searching for him.

You have never heard about a roadblock perimeter around a crime scene?

Hell they set up roadblocks to look for drunk drivers. Everyone gets
stopped and interrogated. There is no presumption of innocence there.

They will even stop vehicles towing boats coming up out of the keys
during mini season looking for illegal lobsters.

You give up many rights as soon as you get in your car and the courts
uphold it. I think a lot of it is wrong but I have to live in the
world we have, not the one Jefferson dreamed of.



Difference is in your statement:

"You have never heard about a roadblock perimeter around a crime scene?
Hell they set up roadblocks to look for drunk drivers. Everyone gets
stopped and interrogated. There is no presumption of innocence there.

"Everyone" isn't a search via racial profiling.

Now you have leapt to the unfounded conclusion that everyone stopped
for a registration or equipment violation is black and that only black
people with warrants get arrested.
Thousands of white people are stopped for that every day and most do
not make it a confrontation so they don't get their ass kicked or get
killed.
Perhaps black people are more likely to be driving old cars with
potential equipment violations but you could more correctly say that
was poor people. Maybe I just lived closer to the dirt than you but
that sort of thing was not uncommon among the people I knew.
If you didn't have warrants and you were polite to the cop, you
usually got away with a "fix it" ticket. I have known people who had
their car towed tho. (too unsafe to drive). That was the day you hope
there wasn't a roach in the seat because the car was going to be
"inventoried" (AKA searched).
I also had an inlaw who liked to fight with the cops and they did some
biblical **** to him. He spent one night cuffed to a bench in the
police locker room and at shift change, a bunch of cops "accidently
bumped into him". Another time he was cuffed to a fence while the cops
maced him and kicked the **** out of him. My sister's FIL (retired
cop) tried to break it up and he was maced. This was a white guy.
He had hurt more than his share of cops tho. He was a nasty SOB.

The common denominator in all of these things is fighting with the
cops.