On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 16:16:39 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 4/3/20 10:56 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Politics aside, I think maybe the collective actions taken
by everyone, including government officials, have been
an over-reaction driven by public fear and panic.

The recommendations ofÂ* scientists who's lifetime
work has been studying epidemics and pandemics
have driven the reactions.Â* Their input is
very important and valuable but it has to considered
from the standpoint that it comes from a narrow
field of view with limited regard to other factors
like how their academic recommendations affect
the overall economic status of the country.

As more "granular data" is crunched, analyzed and
announced to the public and to government officials,
the situation seems only to worsen.

Sweden took a different approach.

They issued recommendations that those at high risk
take precautions to isolate themselves.
Logical, not emotional or panic driven.

They recommended "social distance" protocols for
the rest and hand washing, etc.

They recommended avoiding groups of 50 or more.

But, they did *not* shut down schools, businesses,
restaurants, etc. for the rest of the public.
They emphasized the responsibility the public has
to avoid becoming infected as best they can while
recognizing that over 80 percent of those who *do*
become infected will recover, most with no need
for hospitalization.

As of this morning Sweden, with a population of
just over 10 million, has 5568 confirmed cases
with 308 deaths.

Wondering if this approach would have been more
appropriate.

Interestingly, California seems to have successfully
"flattened the curve" yet testing in California
lags well behind other "hot spot" sections of the
country.



I suppose everyone is entitled to whatever conjectures float their boat.
I have no idea how many in this country will die, and neither does
anyone else. But...if it is less than some of the scientists predict,
you can be sure Trump will take credit for less deaths than predicted.

If you believe the most extreme guesses, there will be fewer deaths
than they predict. The real way to tell is to start with 2.8 million
that will die in any given year and see where it goes from there.

On Fri, 03 Apr 2020 16:24:00 -0400, John wrote:

On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:41:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/3/2020 12:31 PM, John wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:56:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Politics aside, I think maybe the collective actions taken
by everyone, including government officials, have been
an over-reaction driven by public fear and panic.

The recommendations of scientists who's lifetime
work has been studying epidemics and pandemics
have driven the reactions. Their input is
very important and valuable but it has to considered
from the standpoint that it comes from a narrow
field of view with limited regard to other factors
like how their academic recommendations affect
the overall economic status of the country.

As more "granular data" is crunched, analyzed and
announced to the public and to government officials,
the situation seems only to worsen.

Sweden took a different approach.

They issued recommendations that those at high risk
take precautions to isolate themselves.
Logical, not emotional or panic driven.

They recommended "social distance" protocols for
the rest and hand washing, etc.

They recommended avoiding groups of 50 or more.

But, they did *not* shut down schools, businesses,
restaurants, etc. for the rest of the public.
They emphasized the responsibility the public has
to avoid becoming infected as best they can while
recognizing that over 80 percent of those who *do*
become infected will recover, most with no need
for hospitalization.

As of this morning Sweden, with a population of
just over 10 million, has 5568 confirmed cases
with 308 deaths.

Wondering if this approach would have been more
appropriate.

Interestingly, California seems to have successfully
"flattened the curve" yet testing in California
lags well behind other "hot spot" sections of the
country.

We have 784 cases per million and Sweden has 607 cases per million. It's not
like they're that much better off than we are, and I'll bet their inner city
population pays much better attention to directions than ours does. Compare our
cases per million to Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland,
Netherlands, and the list goes on.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

I'm wondering if Sweden won't start climbing the curve pretty soon.


There may not be that much difference in terms of cases per million
but they have not shut their country and economy down like we have.
In that respect they are *much* better off than we are.

Even more reason to believe we may have gone about this wrong.

I guess the big question is how bad it would have been if we *didn't* shut down.

I think what Sweden is saying is you can be careful without completely
shutting down everything.
In real life we are not really keeping people at home. We are just
limiting where they can go. Yesterday Walmart was a zoo ... pretty
much just like normal. The Publix is pretty busy too, in spite of not
having much there. Ace Hardware was a little slower than usual.
I am washing everything that comes in the house now with something. If
it is something that can take it, I spray it with denatured alcohol.

On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 16:47:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

$600 trillion dollars

How do you get from $2.2T to $600T?

On 4/3/2020 9:43 PM, wrote:


On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 16:47:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

$600 trillion dollars

How do you get from $2.2T to $600T?


It's how it has been explained by many. It's leveraging the
base of 2.1T to what it will end up being.

It's beyond my head to try to explain it.


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This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 4/3/2020 9:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Apr 2020 16:24:00 -0400, John wrote:

On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:41:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/3/2020 12:31 PM, John wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:56:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Politics aside, I think maybe the collective actions taken
by everyone, including government officials, have been
an over-reaction driven by public fear and panic.

The recommendations of scientists who's lifetime
work has been studying epidemics and pandemics
have driven the reactions. Their input is
very important and valuable but it has to considered
from the standpoint that it comes from a narrow
field of view with limited regard to other factors
like how their academic recommendations affect
the overall economic status of the country.

As more "granular data" is crunched, analyzed and
announced to the public and to government officials,
the situation seems only to worsen.

Sweden took a different approach.

They issued recommendations that those at high risk
take precautions to isolate themselves.
Logical, not emotional or panic driven.

They recommended "social distance" protocols for
the rest and hand washing, etc.

They recommended avoiding groups of 50 or more.

But, they did *not* shut down schools, businesses,
restaurants, etc. for the rest of the public.
They emphasized the responsibility the public has
to avoid becoming infected as best they can while
recognizing that over 80 percent of those who *do*
become infected will recover, most with no need
for hospitalization.

As of this morning Sweden, with a population of
just over 10 million, has 5568 confirmed cases
with 308 deaths.

Wondering if this approach would have been more
appropriate.

Interestingly, California seems to have successfully
"flattened the curve" yet testing in California
lags well behind other "hot spot" sections of the
country.

We have 784 cases per million and Sweden has 607 cases per million. It's not
like they're that much better off than we are, and I'll bet their inner city
population pays much better attention to directions than ours does. Compare our
cases per million to Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland,
Netherlands, and the list goes on.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

I'm wondering if Sweden won't start climbing the curve pretty soon.


There may not be that much difference in terms of cases per million
but they have not shut their country and economy down like we have.
In that respect they are *much* better off than we are.

Even more reason to believe we may have gone about this wrong.

I guess the big question is how bad it would have been if we *didn't* shut down.

I think what Sweden is saying is you can be careful without completely
shutting down everything.
In real life we are not really keeping people at home. We are just
limiting where they can go. Yesterday Walmart was a zoo ... pretty
much just like normal. The Publix is pretty busy too, in spite of not
having much there. Ace Hardware was a little slower than usual.
I am washing everything that comes in the house now with something. If
it is something that can take it, I spray it with denatured alcohol.



Back in January, a week before Trump banned travel from China,
Doc Fauci said in an interview with Newsweek that the coronavirus:

"is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this
is not something that the citizens of the United States right now
should be worried about." He also commented that it "would be
like the flu".

Yesterday he's was on CNN saying that he can't understand why the entire
United States hasn't been put on a mandatory lock-down.





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This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:56:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Politics aside, I think maybe the collective actions taken
by everyone, including government officials, have been
an over-reaction driven by public fear and panic.

The recommendations of scientists who's lifetime
work has been studying epidemics and pandemics
have driven the reactions. Their input is
very important and valuable but it has to considered
from the standpoint that it comes from a narrow
field of view with limited regard to other factors
like how their academic recommendations affect
the overall economic status of the country.

As more "granular data" is crunched, analyzed and
announced to the public and to government officials,
the situation seems only to worsen.

Sweden took a different approach.

They issued recommendations that those at high risk
take precautions to isolate themselves.
Logical, not emotional or panic driven.

They recommended "social distance" protocols for
the rest and hand washing, etc.

They recommended avoiding groups of 50 or more.

But, they did *not* shut down schools, businesses,
restaurants, etc. for the rest of the public.
They emphasized the responsibility the public has
to avoid becoming infected as best they can while
recognizing that over 80 percent of those who *do*
become infected will recover, most with no need
for hospitalization.

As of this morning Sweden, with a population of
just over 10 million, has 5568 confirmed cases
with 308 deaths.

Wondering if this approach would have been more
appropriate.

Interestingly, California seems to have successfully
"flattened the curve" yet testing in California
lags well behind other "hot spot" sections of the
country.

===

I think you're assuming that a "one size fits all" strategy would be
appropriate for the entire country. The numbers indicate that there
are big differences in the rate of hospitalizations depending mostly
on population density and propensity for travel. High density areas
like the northeast are totally overwhelmed in just a few weeks time
while lightly populated areas are getting by just fine, at least so
far.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Friday, April 3, 2020 at 7:18:06 PM UTC-5, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 4/3/20 4:44 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
I suppose everyone is entitled to whatever conjectures float their
boat. I have no idea how many in this country will die, and neither does
anyone else. But...if it is less than some of the scientists predict,
you can be sure Trump will take credit for less deaths than predicted.

Littlt ****bird you can't make this political.


You're a trip. *Everything* Trump says and does is political, aimed at
pumping up his chances for re-election. He is the worst human being to
ever hold high political office in this country. I know you right-wing
deplorables love him for how well he insults every group and country and
idea you hate, but that will all make it worse for everyone in the USA.
I wonder how he will fare in the New Trump Economy with record high
unemployment, business failures, hundreds of thousands of Americans
dead, a tanked stock market, and plenty of legitimate evidence pointing
a lot of the blame at him, his lies about the pandemic, and his delays
to take strong action...and the lies and delays continue.

Wow, Harry. looks like you've gotten it all figured out. Another George Orwell you are...

On 4/4/2020 2:51 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/3/2020 9:43 PM, wrote:


On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 16:47:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

$600 trillion dollars

How do you get from $2.2T to $600T?


It's how it has been explained by many.Â* It's leveraging the
base of 2.1T to what it will end up being.

It's beyond my head to try to explain it.




whoops ... got trigger happy with the 0's

Meant to say $6T

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This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 4/4/20 8:03 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, April 3, 2020 at 7:18:06 PM UTC-5, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 4/3/20 4:44 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
I suppose everyone is entitled to whatever conjectures float their
boat. I have no idea how many in this country will die, and neither does
anyone else. But...if it is less than some of the scientists predict,
you can be sure Trump will take credit for less deaths than predicted.

Littlt ****bird you can't make this political.


You're a trip. *Everything* Trump says and does is political, aimed at
pumping up his chances for re-election. He is the worst human being to
ever hold high political office in this country. I know you right-wing
deplorables love him for how well he insults every group and country and
idea you hate, but that will all make it worse for everyone in the USA.
I wonder how he will fare in the New Trump Economy with record high
unemployment, business failures, hundreds of thousands of Americans
dead, a tanked stock market, and plenty of legitimate evidence pointing
a lot of the blame at him, his lies about the pandemic, and his delays
to take strong action...and the lies and delays continue.

Wow, Harry. looks like you've gotten it all figured out. Another George Orwell you are...


You are religious, Tim. Therefore, you are predisposed to believe
Trump's bull****.

On 4/4/20 3:02 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/3/2020 9:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Apr 2020 16:24:00 -0400, John wrote:

On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:41:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/3/2020 12:31 PM, John wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:56:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Politics aside, I think maybe the collective actions taken
by everyone, including government officials, have been
an over-reaction driven by public fear and panic.

The recommendations ofÂ* scientists who's lifetime
work has been studying epidemics and pandemics
have driven the reactions.Â* Their input is
very important and valuable but it has to considered
from the standpoint that it comes from a narrow
field of view with limited regard to other factors
like how their academic recommendations affect
the overall economic status of the country.

As more "granular data" is crunched, analyzed and
announced to the public and to government officials,
the situation seems only to worsen.

Sweden took a different approach.

They issued recommendations that those at high risk
take precautions to isolate themselves.
Logical, not emotional or panic driven.

They recommended "social distance" protocols for
the rest and hand washing, etc.

They recommended avoiding groups of 50 or more.

But, they did *not* shut down schools, businesses,
restaurants, etc. for the rest of the public.
They emphasized the responsibility the public has
to avoid becoming infected as best they can while
recognizing that over 80 percent of those who *do*
become infected will recover, most with no need
for hospitalization.

As of this morning Sweden, with a population of
just over 10 million, has 5568 confirmed cases
with 308 deaths.

Wondering if this approach would have been more
appropriate.

Interestingly, California seems to have successfully
"flattened the curve" yet testing in California
lags well behind other "hot spot" sections of the
country.

We have 784 cases per million and Sweden has 607 cases per million.
It's not
like they're that much better off than we are, and I'll bet their
inner city
population pays much better attention to directions than ours does.
Compare our
cases per million to Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, France,
Switzerland,
Netherlands, and the list goes on.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries


I'm wondering if Sweden won't start climbing the curve pretty soon.


There may not be that much difference in terms of cases per million
but they have not shut their country and economy down like we have.
In that respect they are *much* better off than we are.

Even more reason to believe we may have gone about this wrong.

I guess the big question is how bad it would have been if we *didn't*
shut down.

I think what Sweden is saying is you can be careful without completely
shutting down everything.
In real life we are not really keeping people at home. We are just
limiting where they can go. Yesterday Walmart was a zoo ... pretty
much just like normal. The Publix is pretty busy too, in spite of not
having much there. Ace Hardware was a little slower than usual.
I am washing everything that comes in the house now with something. If
it is something that can take it, I spray it with denatured alcohol.



Back in January, a week before Trump banned travel from China,
Doc Fauci said in an interview with Newsweek that the coronavirus:

"is not a major threat to the peopleÂ* of the United States and this
is not something that the citizens of the United States right now
should be worried about."Â* He also commented that it "would be
like the flu".

Yesterday he's was on CNN saying that he can't understand why the entire
United States hasn't been put on a mandatory lock-down.



That's how science works...you learn new things and you adjust your
thinking. Well, some people adjust, but not all...

https://i.ibb.co/X2yfz76/C59-DE935-8...60-B627636.jpg