Politics aside, I think maybe the collective actions taken
by everyone, including government officials, have been
an over-reaction driven by public fear and panic.

The recommendations of scientists who's lifetime
work has been studying epidemics and pandemics
have driven the reactions. Their input is
very important and valuable but it has to considered
from the standpoint that it comes from a narrow
field of view with limited regard to other factors
like how their academic recommendations affect
the overall economic status of the country.

As more "granular data" is crunched, analyzed and
announced to the public and to government officials,
the situation seems only to worsen.

Sweden took a different approach.

They issued recommendations that those at high risk
take precautions to isolate themselves.
Logical, not emotional or panic driven.

They recommended "social distance" protocols for
the rest and hand washing, etc.

They recommended avoiding groups of 50 or more.

But, they did *not* shut down schools, businesses,
restaurants, etc. for the rest of the public.
They emphasized the responsibility the public has
to avoid becoming infected as best they can while
recognizing that over 80 percent of those who *do*
become infected will recover, most with no need
for hospitalization.

As of this morning Sweden, with a population of
just over 10 million, has 5568 confirmed cases
with 308 deaths.

Wondering if this approach would have been more
appropriate.

Interestingly, California seems to have successfully
"flattened the curve" yet testing in California
lags well behind other "hot spot" sections of the
country.


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This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:56:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Politics aside, I think maybe the collective actions taken
by everyone, including government officials, have been
an over-reaction driven by public fear and panic.

The recommendations of scientists who's lifetime
work has been studying epidemics and pandemics
have driven the reactions. Their input is
very important and valuable but it has to considered
from the standpoint that it comes from a narrow
field of view with limited regard to other factors
like how their academic recommendations affect
the overall economic status of the country.

As more "granular data" is crunched, analyzed and
announced to the public and to government officials,
the situation seems only to worsen.

Sweden took a different approach.

They issued recommendations that those at high risk
take precautions to isolate themselves.
Logical, not emotional or panic driven.

They recommended "social distance" protocols for
the rest and hand washing, etc.

They recommended avoiding groups of 50 or more.

But, they did *not* shut down schools, businesses,
restaurants, etc. for the rest of the public.
They emphasized the responsibility the public has
to avoid becoming infected as best they can while
recognizing that over 80 percent of those who *do*
become infected will recover, most with no need
for hospitalization.

As of this morning Sweden, with a population of
just over 10 million, has 5568 confirmed cases
with 308 deaths.

Wondering if this approach would have been more
appropriate.

Interestingly, California seems to have successfully
"flattened the curve" yet testing in California
lags well behind other "hot spot" sections of the
country.

We have 784 cases per million and Sweden has 607 cases per million. It's not
like they're that much better off than we are, and I'll bet their inner city
population pays much better attention to directions than ours does. Compare our
cases per million to Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland,
Netherlands, and the list goes on.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

I'm wondering if Sweden won't start climbing the curve pretty soon.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

On 4/3/2020 12:31 PM, John wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:56:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Politics aside, I think maybe the collective actions taken
by everyone, including government officials, have been
an over-reaction driven by public fear and panic.

The recommendations of scientists who's lifetime
work has been studying epidemics and pandemics
have driven the reactions. Their input is
very important and valuable but it has to considered
from the standpoint that it comes from a narrow
field of view with limited regard to other factors
like how their academic recommendations affect
the overall economic status of the country.

As more "granular data" is crunched, analyzed and
announced to the public and to government officials,
the situation seems only to worsen.

Sweden took a different approach.

They issued recommendations that those at high risk
take precautions to isolate themselves.
Logical, not emotional or panic driven.

They recommended "social distance" protocols for
the rest and hand washing, etc.

They recommended avoiding groups of 50 or more.

But, they did *not* shut down schools, businesses,
restaurants, etc. for the rest of the public.
They emphasized the responsibility the public has
to avoid becoming infected as best they can while
recognizing that over 80 percent of those who *do*
become infected will recover, most with no need
for hospitalization.

As of this morning Sweden, with a population of
just over 10 million, has 5568 confirmed cases
with 308 deaths.

Wondering if this approach would have been more
appropriate.

Interestingly, California seems to have successfully
"flattened the curve" yet testing in California
lags well behind other "hot spot" sections of the
country.

We have 784 cases per million and Sweden has 607 cases per million. It's not
like they're that much better off than we are, and I'll bet their inner city
population pays much better attention to directions than ours does. Compare our
cases per million to Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland,
Netherlands, and the list goes on.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

I'm wondering if Sweden won't start climbing the curve pretty soon.


There may not be that much difference in terms of cases per million
but they have not shut their country and economy down like we have.
In that respect they are *much* better off than we are.

Even more reason to believe we may have gone about this wrong.




--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:41:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/3/2020 12:31 PM, John wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:56:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Politics aside, I think maybe the collective actions taken
by everyone, including government officials, have been
an over-reaction driven by public fear and panic.

The recommendations of scientists who's lifetime
work has been studying epidemics and pandemics
have driven the reactions. Their input is
very important and valuable but it has to considered
from the standpoint that it comes from a narrow
field of view with limited regard to other factors
like how their academic recommendations affect
the overall economic status of the country.

As more "granular data" is crunched, analyzed and
announced to the public and to government officials,
the situation seems only to worsen.

Sweden took a different approach.

They issued recommendations that those at high risk
take precautions to isolate themselves.
Logical, not emotional or panic driven.

They recommended "social distance" protocols for
the rest and hand washing, etc.

They recommended avoiding groups of 50 or more.

But, they did *not* shut down schools, businesses,
restaurants, etc. for the rest of the public.
They emphasized the responsibility the public has
to avoid becoming infected as best they can while
recognizing that over 80 percent of those who *do*
become infected will recover, most with no need
for hospitalization.

As of this morning Sweden, with a population of
just over 10 million, has 5568 confirmed cases
with 308 deaths.

Wondering if this approach would have been more
appropriate.

Interestingly, California seems to have successfully
"flattened the curve" yet testing in California
lags well behind other "hot spot" sections of the
country.

We have 784 cases per million and Sweden has 607 cases per million. It's not
like they're that much better off than we are, and I'll bet their inner city
population pays much better attention to directions than ours does. Compare our
cases per million to Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland,
Netherlands, and the list goes on.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

I'm wondering if Sweden won't start climbing the curve pretty soon.


There may not be that much difference in terms of cases per million
but they have not shut their country and economy down like we have.
In that respect they are *much* better off than we are.

Even more reason to believe we may have gone about this wrong.

I guess the big question is how bad it would have been if we *didn't* shut down.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

On 4/3/2020 4:24 PM, John wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:41:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/3/2020 12:31 PM, John wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:56:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Politics aside, I think maybe the collective actions taken
by everyone, including government officials, have been
an over-reaction driven by public fear and panic.

The recommendations of scientists who's lifetime
work has been studying epidemics and pandemics
have driven the reactions. Their input is
very important and valuable but it has to considered
from the standpoint that it comes from a narrow
field of view with limited regard to other factors
like how their academic recommendations affect
the overall economic status of the country.

As more "granular data" is crunched, analyzed and
announced to the public and to government officials,
the situation seems only to worsen.

Sweden took a different approach.

They issued recommendations that those at high risk
take precautions to isolate themselves.
Logical, not emotional or panic driven.

They recommended "social distance" protocols for
the rest and hand washing, etc.

They recommended avoiding groups of 50 or more.

But, they did *not* shut down schools, businesses,
restaurants, etc. for the rest of the public.
They emphasized the responsibility the public has
to avoid becoming infected as best they can while
recognizing that over 80 percent of those who *do*
become infected will recover, most with no need
for hospitalization.

As of this morning Sweden, with a population of
just over 10 million, has 5568 confirmed cases
with 308 deaths.

Wondering if this approach would have been more
appropriate.

Interestingly, California seems to have successfully
"flattened the curve" yet testing in California
lags well behind other "hot spot" sections of the
country.

We have 784 cases per million and Sweden has 607 cases per million. It's not
like they're that much better off than we are, and I'll bet their inner city
population pays much better attention to directions than ours does. Compare our
cases per million to Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland,
Netherlands, and the list goes on.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

I'm wondering if Sweden won't start climbing the curve pretty soon.


There may not be that much difference in terms of cases per million
but they have not shut their country and economy down like we have.
In that respect they are *much* better off than we are.

Even more reason to believe we may have gone about this wrong.

I guess the big question is how bad it would have been if we *didn't* shut down.


If you believe the Swedish model, it wouldn't be much different
in terms of deaths per million. Biggest difference would be
that businesses and the economy wouldn't be shut down. Wouldn't be
a need for up to $600 trillion dollars (that's what the package
passed by Congress really amounts to) to be committed to shore up
airlines, pay unemployment benefits and give grants to small businesses
as incentives to hang on. We wouldn't be trying to test over
300 million people and we wouldn't be trying to buy 100's of thousands
of ventilators (that don't exist) in a matter of weeks.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 16:47:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

$600 trillion dollars

How do you get from $2.2T to $600T?

On Fri, 03 Apr 2020 16:24:00 -0400, John wrote:

On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:41:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/3/2020 12:31 PM, John wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:56:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Politics aside, I think maybe the collective actions taken
by everyone, including government officials, have been
an over-reaction driven by public fear and panic.

The recommendations of scientists who's lifetime
work has been studying epidemics and pandemics
have driven the reactions. Their input is
very important and valuable but it has to considered
from the standpoint that it comes from a narrow
field of view with limited regard to other factors
like how their academic recommendations affect
the overall economic status of the country.

As more "granular data" is crunched, analyzed and
announced to the public and to government officials,
the situation seems only to worsen.

Sweden took a different approach.

They issued recommendations that those at high risk
take precautions to isolate themselves.
Logical, not emotional or panic driven.

They recommended "social distance" protocols for
the rest and hand washing, etc.

They recommended avoiding groups of 50 or more.

But, they did *not* shut down schools, businesses,
restaurants, etc. for the rest of the public.
They emphasized the responsibility the public has
to avoid becoming infected as best they can while
recognizing that over 80 percent of those who *do*
become infected will recover, most with no need
for hospitalization.

As of this morning Sweden, with a population of
just over 10 million, has 5568 confirmed cases
with 308 deaths.

Wondering if this approach would have been more
appropriate.

Interestingly, California seems to have successfully
"flattened the curve" yet testing in California
lags well behind other "hot spot" sections of the
country.

We have 784 cases per million and Sweden has 607 cases per million. It's not
like they're that much better off than we are, and I'll bet their inner city
population pays much better attention to directions than ours does. Compare our
cases per million to Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland,
Netherlands, and the list goes on.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

I'm wondering if Sweden won't start climbing the curve pretty soon.


There may not be that much difference in terms of cases per million
but they have not shut their country and economy down like we have.
In that respect they are *much* better off than we are.

Even more reason to believe we may have gone about this wrong.

I guess the big question is how bad it would have been if we *didn't* shut down.

I think what Sweden is saying is you can be careful without completely
shutting down everything.
In real life we are not really keeping people at home. We are just
limiting where they can go. Yesterday Walmart was a zoo ... pretty
much just like normal. The Publix is pretty busy too, in spite of not
having much there. Ace Hardware was a little slower than usual.
I am washing everything that comes in the house now with something. If
it is something that can take it, I spray it with denatured alcohol.

On 4/3/2020 9:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Apr 2020 16:24:00 -0400, John wrote:

On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:41:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/3/2020 12:31 PM, John wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:56:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Politics aside, I think maybe the collective actions taken
by everyone, including government officials, have been
an over-reaction driven by public fear and panic.

The recommendations of scientists who's lifetime
work has been studying epidemics and pandemics
have driven the reactions. Their input is
very important and valuable but it has to considered
from the standpoint that it comes from a narrow
field of view with limited regard to other factors
like how their academic recommendations affect
the overall economic status of the country.

As more "granular data" is crunched, analyzed and
announced to the public and to government officials,
the situation seems only to worsen.

Sweden took a different approach.

They issued recommendations that those at high risk
take precautions to isolate themselves.
Logical, not emotional or panic driven.

They recommended "social distance" protocols for
the rest and hand washing, etc.

They recommended avoiding groups of 50 or more.

But, they did *not* shut down schools, businesses,
restaurants, etc. for the rest of the public.
They emphasized the responsibility the public has
to avoid becoming infected as best they can while
recognizing that over 80 percent of those who *do*
become infected will recover, most with no need
for hospitalization.

As of this morning Sweden, with a population of
just over 10 million, has 5568 confirmed cases
with 308 deaths.

Wondering if this approach would have been more
appropriate.

Interestingly, California seems to have successfully
"flattened the curve" yet testing in California
lags well behind other "hot spot" sections of the
country.

We have 784 cases per million and Sweden has 607 cases per million. It's not
like they're that much better off than we are, and I'll bet their inner city
population pays much better attention to directions than ours does. Compare our
cases per million to Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland,
Netherlands, and the list goes on.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...IIsE#countries

I'm wondering if Sweden won't start climbing the curve pretty soon.


There may not be that much difference in terms of cases per million
but they have not shut their country and economy down like we have.
In that respect they are *much* better off than we are.

Even more reason to believe we may have gone about this wrong.

I guess the big question is how bad it would have been if we *didn't* shut down.

I think what Sweden is saying is you can be careful without completely
shutting down everything.
In real life we are not really keeping people at home. We are just
limiting where they can go. Yesterday Walmart was a zoo ... pretty
much just like normal. The Publix is pretty busy too, in spite of not
having much there. Ace Hardware was a little slower than usual.
I am washing everything that comes in the house now with something. If
it is something that can take it, I spray it with denatured alcohol.



Back in January, a week before Trump banned travel from China,
Doc Fauci said in an interview with Newsweek that the coronavirus:

"is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this
is not something that the citizens of the United States right now
should be worried about." He also commented that it "would be
like the flu".

Yesterday he's was on CNN saying that he can't understand why the entire
United States hasn't been put on a mandatory lock-down.





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This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:56:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Politics aside, I think maybe the collective actions taken
by everyone, including government officials, have been
an over-reaction driven by public fear and panic.

The recommendations of scientists who's lifetime
work has been studying epidemics and pandemics
have driven the reactions. Their input is
very important and valuable but it has to considered
from the standpoint that it comes from a narrow
field of view with limited regard to other factors
like how their academic recommendations affect
the overall economic status of the country.

As more "granular data" is crunched, analyzed and
announced to the public and to government officials,
the situation seems only to worsen.

Sweden took a different approach.

They issued recommendations that those at high risk
take precautions to isolate themselves.
Logical, not emotional or panic driven.

They recommended "social distance" protocols for
the rest and hand washing, etc.

They recommended avoiding groups of 50 or more.

But, they did *not* shut down schools, businesses,
restaurants, etc. for the rest of the public.
They emphasized the responsibility the public has
to avoid becoming infected as best they can while
recognizing that over 80 percent of those who *do*
become infected will recover, most with no need
for hospitalization.

As of this morning Sweden, with a population of
just over 10 million, has 5568 confirmed cases
with 308 deaths.

Wondering if this approach would have been more
appropriate.

Interestingly, California seems to have successfully
"flattened the curve" yet testing in California
lags well behind other "hot spot" sections of the
country.

Wait until summer and I bet lots more people will be questioning this
"rule by panic" path we have taken.

On 4/3/20 10:56 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Politics aside, I think maybe the collective actions taken
by everyone, including government officials, have been
an over-reaction driven by public fear and panic.

The recommendations ofÂ* scientists who's lifetime
work has been studying epidemics and pandemics
have driven the reactions.Â* Their input is
very important and valuable but it has to considered
from the standpoint that it comes from a narrow
field of view with limited regard to other factors
like how their academic recommendations affect
the overall economic status of the country.

As more "granular data" is crunched, analyzed and
announced to the public and to government officials,
the situation seems only to worsen.

Sweden took a different approach.

They issued recommendations that those at high risk
take precautions to isolate themselves.
Logical, not emotional or panic driven.

They recommended "social distance" protocols for
the rest and hand washing, etc.

They recommended avoiding groups of 50 or more.

But, they did *not* shut down schools, businesses,
restaurants, etc. for the rest of the public.
They emphasized the responsibility the public has
to avoid becoming infected as best they can while
recognizing that over 80 percent of those who *do*
become infected will recover, most with no need
for hospitalization.

As of this morning Sweden, with a population of
just over 10 million, has 5568 confirmed cases
with 308 deaths.

Wondering if this approach would have been more
appropriate.

Interestingly, California seems to have successfully
"flattened the curve" yet testing in California
lags well behind other "hot spot" sections of the
country.



I suppose everyone is entitled to whatever conjectures float their boat.
I have no idea how many in this country will die, and neither does
anyone else. But...if it is less than some of the scientists predict,
you can be sure Trump will take credit for less deaths than predicted.