On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 17:49:04 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 17:26:38 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 13:46:45 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 12:44:21 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 11:36:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



While GM dragged their feet over contract issues, Ford in
partnership with GE Health got to work making ventilators.

Interesting concept.

After consultation with GE and with consideration to the
type of locations they will be used, they are going to
focus on a simple, proven design that is air powered
rather than by electricity. Reduces the complexity
and permits the ventilator to be used with a tank
of oxygen only.

Ford engineers visited GE and worked out some
manufacturing improvements that will allow GE
to also ramp up production.

Ford is setting up a manufacturing facility in
Michigan and expects to produce 50,000 ventilators
over the next 100 days.

Ford executive says it's the perfect combination of
company strengths and capabilities. GE has a
proven ventilator design and Ford has the expertise
in mass production.

Ford also said production rates will go up as required.

I think our biggest problem will be what to do with a half of a
million ventilators in a year or so when this blows over. Maybe Oprah
can give them away on her show. I bet there will be a glut of n-95
masks on the market too. That is a good thing tho. I was paying at
least, a couple bucks each for them last year.

Do you really think that will be our biggest problem? You sound much like Harry
with that kind of crap. As Trump said, if we have extras, there are lots of
countries in need.

I am trying not to think about the global financial collapse. People
have been telling me for a month that I was crazy even suggesting it.

BTW when this is over, the excessive need will be gone. I think we are
going to flood the world with this stuff once they get tooled up to
make it and the government is printing money to get it out the door.

Half a million ventilators will surely not cause a global financial collapse.
Will there be a financial collapse? Maybe. If so, you can say you predicted it
months ago. I don't remember you suggesting it, but if you say you did, and it
happens, you deserve the credit for predicting it.

I'm surprised Harry hasn't beat you to that prediction and blames it on Trump.

I am not seeing anything that looks any other possibility. Whether it
is an unrecoverable collapse is the only question.
With no end in sight of keeping our foot on the throat on the western
economy we have to consider the consequences. South Europe was
dragging down the Euro in a food economy with Germany propping it up.
The German finance minister just killed himself. You have to wonder
what that was all about.
I bet UK is happy they Brexited.
The big winner here is going to be China. Whether they have actually
controlled this virus or not, their official story is they are back
open for business.
The US, not so much and the predictions here are far fewer than half
of small business is going to survive. Bigger companies are likely to
be in trouble too if they can't make something the government is
buying. Other than that, if you can't buy it in a grocery store, drug
store or a liquor store, we are not buying it. The businesses are all
closed. I still think real unemployment is about 30% and I may be
guessing low once employers stop paying furloughed workers.

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:20:18 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 17:49:04 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 17:26:38 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 13:46:45 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 12:44:21 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 11:36:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



While GM dragged their feet over contract issues, Ford in
partnership with GE Health got to work making ventilators.

Interesting concept.

After consultation with GE and with consideration to the
type of locations they will be used, they are going to
focus on a simple, proven design that is air powered
rather than by electricity. Reduces the complexity
and permits the ventilator to be used with a tank
of oxygen only.

Ford engineers visited GE and worked out some
manufacturing improvements that will allow GE
to also ramp up production.

Ford is setting up a manufacturing facility in
Michigan and expects to produce 50,000 ventilators
over the next 100 days.

Ford executive says it's the perfect combination of
company strengths and capabilities. GE has a
proven ventilator design and Ford has the expertise
in mass production.

Ford also said production rates will go up as required.

I think our biggest problem will be what to do with a half of a
million ventilators in a year or so when this blows over. Maybe Oprah
can give them away on her show. I bet there will be a glut of n-95
masks on the market too. That is a good thing tho. I was paying at
least, a couple bucks each for them last year.

Do you really think that will be our biggest problem? You sound much like Harry
with that kind of crap. As Trump said, if we have extras, there are lots of
countries in need.

I am trying not to think about the global financial collapse. People
have been telling me for a month that I was crazy even suggesting it.

BTW when this is over, the excessive need will be gone. I think we are
going to flood the world with this stuff once they get tooled up to
make it and the government is printing money to get it out the door.

Half a million ventilators will surely not cause a global financial collapse.
Will there be a financial collapse? Maybe. If so, you can say you predicted it
months ago. I don't remember you suggesting it, but if you say you did, and it
happens, you deserve the credit for predicting it.

I'm surprised Harry hasn't beat you to that prediction and blames it on Trump.

I am not seeing anything that looks any other possibility. Whether it
is an unrecoverable collapse is the only question.
With no end in sight of keeping our foot on the throat on the western
economy we have to consider the consequences. South Europe was
dragging down the Euro in a food economy with Germany propping it up.
The German finance minister just killed himself. You have to wonder
what that was all about.
I bet UK is happy they Brexited.
The big winner here is going to be China. Whether they have actually
controlled this virus or not, their official story is they are back
open for business.
The US, not so much and the predictions here are far fewer than half
of small business is going to survive. Bigger companies are likely to
be in trouble too if they can't make something the government is
buying. Other than that, if you can't buy it in a grocery store, drug
store or a liquor store, we are not buying it. The businesses are all
closed. I still think real unemployment is about 30% and I may be
guessing low once employers stop paying furloughed workers.


And you predicted all this a month ago?
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:56:35 -0400, John wrote:
And you predicted all this a month ago?

I'm sorry. 2 weeks and 4 days ago


On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:03:17 -0400, Alex wrote:

Adorable Deplorable wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 12:46:28 -0400 (EDT), Justan Ohlphart wrote:

Adorable Deplorable Wrote in message:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 08:32:39 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote:On Thursday, March 12, 2020 at 11:18:01 AM UTC-4, John H wrote: ...that is the question! -- Freedom Isn't Free!Don't sell. Not unless you want to turn your short term losses into long term losses.The idea would be to get back in when, and if, things start improving. I'm not 'investor certified'though!--Freedom Isn't Free!
A 50% loss would result in the need to make a 100% gain to break
even, if you bought back the same stock at what you sold it for.
If the stock declined another 50% you could buy twice the amount
you sold but you'd still need a 100% gain to break
even.

If the stock rose 50% after you sold it would cost you 25% more to
buy it back. If the stock regained its original value it would
cost you twice as much as you sold it for, to buy it
back.

Numbers dont lie.
I suppose that means to hang on to it?
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

And buy more!

snip stock thing

If they are really serious that we are going to hit stop on the
economic engine until they declare the virus is contained, the economy
might not start when we hit go.
The debt bomb we are all dreading may have gone off by then and we
will be in worse shape than 2008-9 with the central banks failing not
just AIG and Lehman.
I understand that is probably not going to happen but it isn't as
unrealistic as some of the predictions I am hearing about this virus.

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 23:47:11 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:56:35 -0400, John wrote:
And you predicted all this a month ago?

I'm sorry. 2 weeks and 4 days ago


On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:03:17 -0400, Alex wrote:

Adorable Deplorable wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 12:46:28 -0400 (EDT), Justan Ohlphart wrote:

Adorable Deplorable Wrote in message:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 08:32:39 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote:On Thursday, March 12, 2020 at 11:18:01 AM UTC-4, John H wrote: ...that is the question! -- Freedom Isn't Free!Don't sell. Not unless you want to turn your short term losses into long term losses.The idea would be to get back in when, and if, things start improving. I'm not 'investor certified'though!--Freedom Isn't Free!
A 50% loss would result in the need to make a 100% gain to break
even, if you bought back the same stock at what you sold it for.
If the stock declined another 50% you could buy twice the amount
you sold but you'd still need a 100% gain to break
even.

If the stock rose 50% after you sold it would cost you 25% more to
buy it back. If the stock regained its original value it would
cost you twice as much as you sold it for, to buy it
back.

Numbers dont lie.
I suppose that means to hang on to it?
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

And buy more!

snip stock thing

If they are really serious that we are going to hit stop on the
economic engine until they declare the virus is contained, the economy
might not start when we hit go.
The debt bomb we are all dreading may have gone off by then and we
will be in worse shape than 2008-9 with the central banks failing not
just AIG and Lehman.
I understand that is probably not going to happen but it isn't as
unrealistic as some of the predictions I am hearing about this virus.

Another dire prediction? When, and if, this is all over, you will undoubtedly
win the prize for the most dire predictions!
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

On 4/1/2020 7:26 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 23:47:11 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:56:35 -0400, John wrote:
And you predicted all this a month ago?

I'm sorry. 2 weeks and 4 days ago


On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:03:17 -0400, Alex wrote:

Adorable Deplorable wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 12:46:28 -0400 (EDT), Justan Ohlphart wrote:

Adorable Deplorable Wrote in message:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 08:32:39 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote:On Thursday, March 12, 2020 at 11:18:01 AM UTC-4, John H wrote: ...that is the question! -- Freedom Isn't Free!Don't sell. Not unless you want to turn your short term losses into long term losses.The idea would be to get back in when, and if, things start improving. I'm not 'investor certified'though!--Freedom Isn't Free!
A 50% loss would result in the need to make a 100% gain to break
even, if you bought back the same stock at what you sold it for.
If the stock declined another 50% you could buy twice the amount
you sold but you'd still need a 100% gain to break
even.

If the stock rose 50% after you sold it would cost you 25% more to
buy it back. If the stock regained its original value it would
cost you twice as much as you sold it for, to buy it
back.

Numbers dont lie.
I suppose that means to hang on to it?
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

And buy more!

snip stock thing

If they are really serious that we are going to hit stop on the
economic engine until they declare the virus is contained, the economy
might not start when we hit go.
The debt bomb we are all dreading may have gone off by then and we
will be in worse shape than 2008-9 with the central banks failing not
just AIG and Lehman.
I understand that is probably not going to happen but it isn't as
unrealistic as some of the predictions I am hearing about this virus.

Another dire prediction? When, and if, this is all over, you will undoubtedly
win the prize for the most dire predictions!


Greg, just a thought:

China is America's biggest creditor by far.
Is China going to call the note?

And even if they did, what if the USA just said, "**** you"?

Is China going to turn it over to a collection agency? :-)



--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 07:38:29 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/1/2020 7:26 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 23:47:11 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:56:35 -0400, John wrote:
And you predicted all this a month ago?

I'm sorry. 2 weeks and 4 days ago


On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:03:17 -0400, Alex wrote:

Adorable Deplorable wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 12:46:28 -0400 (EDT), Justan Ohlphart wrote:

Adorable Deplorable Wrote in message:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 08:32:39 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote:On Thursday, March 12, 2020 at 11:18:01 AM UTC-4, John H wrote: ...that is the question! -- Freedom Isn't Free!Don't sell. Not unless you want to turn your short term losses into long term losses.The idea would be to get back in when, and if, things start improving. I'm not 'investor certified'though!--Freedom Isn't Free!
A 50% loss would result in the need to make a 100% gain to break
even, if you bought back the same stock at what you sold it for.
If the stock declined another 50% you could buy twice the amount
you sold but you'd still need a 100% gain to break
even.

If the stock rose 50% after you sold it would cost you 25% more to
buy it back. If the stock regained its original value it would
cost you twice as much as you sold it for, to buy it
back.

Numbers dont lie.
I suppose that means to hang on to it?
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

And buy more!

snip stock thing

If they are really serious that we are going to hit stop on the
economic engine until they declare the virus is contained, the economy
might not start when we hit go.
The debt bomb we are all dreading may have gone off by then and we
will be in worse shape than 2008-9 with the central banks failing not
just AIG and Lehman.
I understand that is probably not going to happen but it isn't as
unrealistic as some of the predictions I am hearing about this virus.

Another dire prediction? When, and if, this is all over, you will undoubtedly
win the prize for the most dire predictions!


Greg, just a thought:

China is America's biggest creditor by far.
Is China going to call the note?

And even if they did, what if the USA just said, "**** you"?

Is China going to turn it over to a collection agency? :-)

If the entire world's currency was devalued by 20%, would it make a ****? I'm no
economist, just wondering.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

On 4/1/2020 7:46 AM, John wrote:
On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 07:38:29 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/1/2020 7:26 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 23:47:11 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:56:35 -0400, John wrote:
And you predicted all this a month ago?

I'm sorry. 2 weeks and 4 days ago


On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:03:17 -0400, Alex wrote:

Adorable Deplorable wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 12:46:28 -0400 (EDT), Justan Ohlphart wrote:

Adorable Deplorable Wrote in message:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 08:32:39 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote:On Thursday, March 12, 2020 at 11:18:01 AM UTC-4, John H wrote: ...that is the question! -- Freedom Isn't Free!Don't sell. Not unless you want to turn your short term losses into long term losses.The idea would be to get back in when, and if, things start improving. I'm not 'investor certified'though!--Freedom Isn't Free!
A 50% loss would result in the need to make a 100% gain to break
even, if you bought back the same stock at what you sold it for.
If the stock declined another 50% you could buy twice the amount
you sold but you'd still need a 100% gain to break
even.

If the stock rose 50% after you sold it would cost you 25% more to
buy it back. If the stock regained its original value it would
cost you twice as much as you sold it for, to buy it
back.

Numbers dont lie.
I suppose that means to hang on to it?
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

And buy more!

snip stock thing

If they are really serious that we are going to hit stop on the
economic engine until they declare the virus is contained, the economy
might not start when we hit go.
The debt bomb we are all dreading may have gone off by then and we
will be in worse shape than 2008-9 with the central banks failing not
just AIG and Lehman.
I understand that is probably not going to happen but it isn't as
unrealistic as some of the predictions I am hearing about this virus.

Another dire prediction? When, and if, this is all over, you will undoubtedly
win the prize for the most dire predictions!


Greg, just a thought:

China is America's biggest creditor by far.
Is China going to call the note?

And even if they did, what if the USA just said, "**** you"?

Is China going to turn it over to a collection agency? :-)

If the entire world's currency was devalued by 20%, would it make a ****? I'm no
economist, just wondering.


Don't know. Beyond my paygrade.

I realize that what is read both in print and on the Internet
has to be taken with a grain of salt but I am starting to
believe that China is in deeper **** than we are and may be
on the verge of an economic collapse.

The Chinese government is not exactly forthcoming in what
their economic situation really is and the few "leaks"
that emerge from Chinese citizens do not paint a
rosy picture.

If the USA really clamps down on its reliance on Chinese
manufactured items (as it should) the Chinese economy
could be in for a free-fall. If it does, there's no
turning back. The Chinese Communist government opened
a Pandora's box about 30 years ago when they started
embracing their government controlled version of
capitalism and "free markets". Once a significant
portion of their population start benefiting from
this, there's no way to close the Pandora's box
again.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Wed, 01 Apr 2020 07:46:35 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 07:38:29 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/1/2020 7:26 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 23:47:11 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:56:35 -0400, John wrote:
And you predicted all this a month ago?

I'm sorry. 2 weeks and 4 days ago


On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:03:17 -0400, Alex wrote:

Adorable Deplorable wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 12:46:28 -0400 (EDT), Justan Ohlphart wrote:

Adorable Deplorable Wrote in message:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 08:32:39 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote:On Thursday, March 12, 2020 at 11:18:01 AM UTC-4, John H wrote: ...that is the question! -- Freedom Isn't Free!Don't sell. Not unless you want to turn your short term losses into long term losses.The idea would be to get back in when, and if, things start improving. I'm not 'investor certified'though!--Freedom Isn't Free!
A 50% loss would result in the need to make a 100% gain to break
even, if you bought back the same stock at what you sold it for.
If the stock declined another 50% you could buy twice the amount
you sold but you'd still need a 100% gain to break
even.

If the stock rose 50% after you sold it would cost you 25% more to
buy it back. If the stock regained its original value it would
cost you twice as much as you sold it for, to buy it
back.

Numbers dont lie.
I suppose that means to hang on to it?
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

And buy more!

snip stock thing

If they are really serious that we are going to hit stop on the
economic engine until they declare the virus is contained, the economy
might not start when we hit go.
The debt bomb we are all dreading may have gone off by then and we
will be in worse shape than 2008-9 with the central banks failing not
just AIG and Lehman.
I understand that is probably not going to happen but it isn't as
unrealistic as some of the predictions I am hearing about this virus.

Another dire prediction? When, and if, this is all over, you will undoubtedly
win the prize for the most dire predictions!


Greg, just a thought:

China is America's biggest creditor by far.
Is China going to call the note?

And even if they did, what if the USA just said, "**** you"?

Is China going to turn it over to a collection agency? :-)

If the entire world's currency was devalued by 20%, would it make a ****? I'm no
economist, just wondering.

It would instantly eat 20% of your savings and if your pension does
not keep up, it cuts your income.
That assumed the entire world's currency was devalued. If China was
able to maintain their value, simply because they went back to work,
we all pay more for their products. Whether that would be enough to
bring manufacturing back here is yet to be seen. Those economics may
be above my pay grade.

On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 07:38:29 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/1/2020 7:26 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 23:47:11 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:56:35 -0400, John wrote:
And you predicted all this a month ago?

I'm sorry. 2 weeks and 4 days ago


On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:03:17 -0400, Alex wrote:

Adorable Deplorable wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 12:46:28 -0400 (EDT), Justan Ohlphart wrote:

Adorable Deplorable Wrote in message:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 08:32:39 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote:On Thursday, March 12, 2020 at 11:18:01 AM UTC-4, John H wrote: ...that is the question! -- Freedom Isn't Free!Don't sell. Not unless you want to turn your short term losses into long term losses.The idea would be to get back in when, and if, things start improving. I'm not 'investor certified'though!--Freedom Isn't Free!
A 50% loss would result in the need to make a 100% gain to break
even, if you bought back the same stock at what you sold it for.
If the stock declined another 50% you could buy twice the amount
you sold but you'd still need a 100% gain to break
even.

If the stock rose 50% after you sold it would cost you 25% more to
buy it back. If the stock regained its original value it would
cost you twice as much as you sold it for, to buy it
back.

Numbers dont lie.
I suppose that means to hang on to it?
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

And buy more!

snip stock thing

If they are really serious that we are going to hit stop on the
economic engine until they declare the virus is contained, the economy
might not start when we hit go.
The debt bomb we are all dreading may have gone off by then and we
will be in worse shape than 2008-9 with the central banks failing not
just AIG and Lehman.
I understand that is probably not going to happen but it isn't as
unrealistic as some of the predictions I am hearing about this virus.

Another dire prediction? When, and if, this is all over, you will undoubtedly
win the prize for the most dire predictions!


Greg, just a thought:

China is America's biggest creditor by far.
Is China going to call the note?

And even if they did, what if the USA just said, "**** you"?

Is China going to turn it over to a collection agency? :-)

Actually China has backed away from US paper and they are not the
biggest holder, Japan is.

When a country defaults on it's debt the world devalues their money.
We pay it back in much higher prices for imported goods. That will
also make domestic goods more expensive and eat your savings.

Do you really think we can print massive amounts of money while the
GDP is crashing without consequences?

On 4/1/2020 1:01 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 07:38:29 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/1/2020 7:26 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 23:47:11 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:56:35 -0400, John wrote:
And you predicted all this a month ago?

I'm sorry. 2 weeks and 4 days ago


On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:03:17 -0400, Alex wrote:

Adorable Deplorable wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 12:46:28 -0400 (EDT), Justan Ohlphart wrote:

Adorable Deplorable Wrote in message:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 08:32:39 -0700 (PDT), Its Me wrote:On Thursday, March 12, 2020 at 11:18:01 AM UTC-4, John H wrote: ...that is the question! -- Freedom Isn't Free!Don't sell. Not unless you want to turn your short term losses into long term losses.The idea would be to get back in when, and if, things start improving. I'm not 'investor certified'though!--Freedom Isn't Free!
A 50% loss would result in the need to make a 100% gain to break
even, if you bought back the same stock at what you sold it for.
If the stock declined another 50% you could buy twice the amount
you sold but you'd still need a 100% gain to break
even.

If the stock rose 50% after you sold it would cost you 25% more to
buy it back. If the stock regained its original value it would
cost you twice as much as you sold it for, to buy it
back.

Numbers dont lie.
I suppose that means to hang on to it?
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

And buy more!

snip stock thing

If they are really serious that we are going to hit stop on the
economic engine until they declare the virus is contained, the economy
might not start when we hit go.
The debt bomb we are all dreading may have gone off by then and we
will be in worse shape than 2008-9 with the central banks failing not
just AIG and Lehman.
I understand that is probably not going to happen but it isn't as
unrealistic as some of the predictions I am hearing about this virus.

Another dire prediction? When, and if, this is all over, you will undoubtedly
win the prize for the most dire predictions!


Greg, just a thought:

China is America's biggest creditor by far.
Is China going to call the note?

And even if they did, what if the USA just said, "**** you"?

Is China going to turn it over to a collection agency? :-)

Actually China has backed away from US paper and they are not the
biggest holder, Japan is.

When a country defaults on it's debt the world devalues their money.
We pay it back in much higher prices for imported goods. That will
also make domestic goods more expensive and eat your savings.

Do you really think we can print massive amounts of money while the
GDP is crashing without consequences?



I don't have a clue. All I know is it has been working for
about 50-60 years and the sky hasn't fallen yet.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com