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General Motors
Apparently, after promising to tool up to produce ventilators, GM started demanding excessive up front money, jacking the price per ventilator up and producing less than was originally promised. Trump just punched back, invoking the Defense Production Act to require General Motors to produce the ventilators, like it or not. That's it. I am trading my GM Canyon in on a Ford. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
On 3/27/20 6:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
Apparently, after promising to tool up to produce ventilators, GM started demanding excessive up front money, jacking the price per ventilator up and producing less than was originally promised. Trump just punched back, invoking the Defense Production Act to require General Motors to produce the ventilators, like it or not. That's it. I am trading my GM Canyon in on a Ford. We now lead the world in COVOID-19 cases, partly as a result of Trump's zigzagging, lying, and stalling on coming up with real responses to the virus. MAGA. Hospital ventilators are not simple devices. If GM doesn't buy the technology and dies and so forth, I wonder how quickly the auto company can produce them in numbers. |
General Motors
On 3/27/2020 7:07 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 3/27/20 6:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: Apparently, after promising to tool up to produce ventilators, GM started demanding excessive up front money, jacking the price per ventilator up and producing less than was originally promised. Trump just punched back, invoking the Defense Production Act to require General Motors to produce the ventilators, like it or not. That's it. I am trading my GM Canyon in on a Ford. We now lead the world in COVOID-19 cases, partly as a result of Trump's zigzagging, lying, and stalling on coming up with real responses to the virus. MAGA. Hospital ventilators are not simple devices. If GM doesn't buy the technology and dies and so forth, I wonder how quickly the auto company can produce them in numbers. Take a chill pill. Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla. What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case. It was GM (big business, remember?) who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
On 3/27/20 7:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/27/2020 7:07 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 3/27/20 6:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: Apparently, after promising to tool up to produce ventilators, GM started demanding excessive up front money, jacking the price per ventilator up and producing less than was originally promised. Trump just punched back, invoking the Defense Production Act to require General Motors to produce the ventilators, like it or not. That's it. I am trading my GM Canyon in on a Ford. We now lead the world in COVOID-19 cases, partly as a result of Trump's zigzagging, lying, and stalling on coming up with real responses to the virus. MAGA. Hospital ventilators are not simple devices. If GM doesn't buy the technology and dies and so forth, I wonder how quickly the auto company can produce them in numbers. Take a chill pill.Â* Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla.Â* What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case.Â* It was GM (big business, remember?)Â* who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. Extortion is the byword of Trump. Have we spent $100 million yet on his golfing weekends? It's going to take GM and anyone else some time...weeks, months? to start producing reliable ventilators. |
General Motors
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 3/27/20 7:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/27/2020 7:07 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 3/27/20 6:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: Apparently, after promising to tool up to produce ventilators, GM started demanding excessive up front money, jacking the price per ventilator up and producing less than was originally promised. Trump just punched back, invoking the Defense Production Act to require General Motors to produce the ventilators, like it or not. That's it. I am trading my GM Canyon in on a Ford. We now lead the world in COVOID-19 cases, partly as a result of Trump's zigzagging, lying, and stalling on coming up with real responses to the virus. MAGA. Hospital ventilators are not simple devices. If GM doesn't buy the technology and dies and so forth, I wonder how quickly the auto company can produce them in numbers. Take a chill pill. Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla. What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case. It was GM (big business, remember?) who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. Extortion is the byword of Trump. Have we spent $100 million yet on his golfing weekends?It's going to take GM and anyone else some time...weeks, months? to start producing reliable ventilators. Is your wife any good at recognizeing mental illness? -- .. ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
General Motors
Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text - Take a chill pill. Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla. What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case. It was GM (big business, remember?) who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. “ - show quoted text - I’m surprised that someone like Toyota or Honda hasn’t already put them into production. Or the people who make CPAC machines for that matter |
General Motors
On 3/27/2020 7:26 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 3/27/20 7:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/27/2020 7:07 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 3/27/20 6:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: Apparently, after promising to tool up to produce ventilators, GM started demanding excessive up front money, jacking the price per ventilator up and producing less than was originally promised. Trump just punched back, invoking the Defense Production Act to require General Motors to produce the ventilators, like it or not. That's it. I am trading my GM Canyon in on a Ford. We now lead the world in COVOID-19 cases, partly as a result of Trump's zigzagging, lying, and stalling on coming up with real responses to the virus. MAGA. Hospital ventilators are not simple devices. If GM doesn't buy the technology and dies and so forth, I wonder how quickly the auto company can produce them in numbers. Take a chill pill.Â* Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla.Â* What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case.Â* It was GM (big business, remember?)Â* who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. Extortion is the byword of Trump. Have we spent $100 million yet on his golfing weekends? It's going to take GM and anyone else some time...weeks, months? to start producing reliable ventilators. Maybe we'll need them. Hopefully we won't. But knowledge has been gained about how to be prepared and there's talk that even if this cycle of covid-19 dies down, it may be back again ... or something like it. You are treating this as if it's business as usual. It's not. This is a national emergency the likes of which none of us have seen in our life time. Extraordinary measures are in order. Two days ago the Dems were accusing Trump of not fully invoking the Defense Act. He was criticized of relying on the promises of GM, Ford and Tesla. But now that GM is playing games and he fully invokes the Defense Act, he's now being criticized by the same people for doing it. If there's anything that can be used to dump on Trump you and your pals will take full advantage of it. It's a little disgusting under the circumstances. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 3/27/20 7:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/27/2020 7:07 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 3/27/20 6:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: Apparently, after promising to tool up to produce ventilators, GM started demanding excessive up front money, jacking the price per ventilator up and producing less than was originally promised. Trump just punched back, invoking the Defense Production Act to require General Motors to produce the ventilators, like it or not. That's it. I am trading my GM Canyon in on a Ford. We now lead the world in COVOID-19 cases, partly as a result of Trump's zigzagging, lying, and stalling on coming up with real responses to the virus. MAGA. Hospital ventilators are not simple devices. If GM doesn't buy the technology and dies and so forth, I wonder how quickly the auto company can produce them in numbers. Take a chill pill. Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla. What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case. It was GM (big business, remember?) who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. Extortion is the byword of Trump. Have we spent $100 million yet on his golfing weekends?It's going to take GM and anyone else some time...weeks, months? to start producing reliable ventilators. What does Fat Boy know about business and manufacturing? Why, he can't even manage his own widdle life. -- .. ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
General Motors
On 3/27/2020 7:35 PM, Tim wrote:
Mr. Luddite - show quoted text - Take a chill pill. Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla. What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case. It was GM (big business, remember?) who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. “ - show quoted text - I’m surprised that someone like Toyota or Honda hasn’t already put them into production. Or the people who make CPAC machines for that matter Toyota or Honda could probably do it but I am not sure they fall under the Defense Production Act. Maybe the US plants do. The key isn't a need to re-invent the wheel. The key is manufacturing capacity and space to do it, something the auto manufacturers have. Issue here is that GM, Ford and Tesla offered without being asked or directed to by invoking the act. GM apparently reneged somewhat, lowering how many they could build and upping the price. Remains to be seen what Ford and Tesla does. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 3/27/2020 7:26 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 3/27/20 7:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/27/2020 7:07 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 3/27/20 6:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: Apparently, after promising to tool up to produce ventilators, GM started demanding excessive up front money, jacking the price per ventilator up and producing less than was originally promised. Trump just punched back, invoking the Defense Production Act to require General Motors to produce the ventilators, like it or not. That's it. I am trading my GM Canyon in on a Ford. We now lead the world in COVOID-19 cases, partly as a result of Trump's zigzagging, lying, and stalling on coming up with real responses to the virus. MAGA. Hospital ventilators are not simple devices. If GM doesn't buy the technology and dies and so forth, I wonder how quickly the auto company can produce them in numbers. Take a chill pill. Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla. What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case. It was GM (big business, remember?) who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. Extortion is the byword of Trump. Have we spent $100 million yet on his golfing weekends? It's going to take GM and anyone else some time...weeks, months? to start producing reliable ventilators. Maybe we'll need them. Hopefully we won't. But knowledge has beengained about how to be prepared and there's talk that even if thiscycle of covid-19 dies down, it may be back again ... or somethinglike it.You are treating this as if it's business as usual. It's not.This is a national emergency the likes of which none of us haveseen in our life time.Extraordinary measures are in order.Two days ago the Dems were accusingTrump of not fully invoking the Defense Act. He wascriticized of relying onthe promises of GM, Ford and Tesla. But now that GM is playinggames and he fully invokes the Defense Act, he's now beingcriticized by the same people for doing it.If there's anythingthat can be used to dump on Trump you and your pals will take fulladvantage of it.It's a little disgusting under the circumstances.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com Fat Harry's brain was wired by liberal progressive union politics. He is incapable of individual thought. Hate is what he was taught. Hate is what he does. My little dog has more brain cells than our fat boy from Mary-Land. -- .. ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
General Motors
On 3/27/20 7:56 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/27/2020 7:35 PM, Tim wrote: Mr. Luddite - show quoted text - Take a chill pill.Â* Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla.Â* What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case.Â* It was GM (big business, remember?)Â* who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. “ - show quoted text - I’m surprised that someone like Toyota or Honda hasn’t already put them into production.Â* Or the people who make CPAC machines for that matter Toyota or Honda could probably do it but I am not sure they fall under the Defense Production Act.Â* Maybe the US plants do. The key isn't a need to re-invent the wheel.Â* The key is manufacturing capacity and space to do it,Â* something the auto manufacturers have. Issue here is that GM, Ford and Tesla offered without being asked or directed to by invoking the act.Â* GM apparently reneged somewhat, lowering how many they could build and upping the price. Remains to be seen what Ford and Tesla does. The reality is, the Trump Administration is not being transparent on this issue, and therefore we don't know what transpired between Trump and GM. Just today, he apparently told Pence not to call the governors of at least two states regarding the virus because they didn't "appreciate" him. |
General Motors
On 3/27/20 7:48 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/27/2020 7:26 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 3/27/20 7:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/27/2020 7:07 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 3/27/20 6:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: Apparently, after promising to tool up to produce ventilators, GM started demanding excessive up front money, jacking the price per ventilator up and producing less than was originally promised. Trump just punched back, invoking the Defense Production Act to require General Motors to produce the ventilators, like it or not. That's it. I am trading my GM Canyon in on a Ford. We now lead the world in COVOID-19 cases, partly as a result of Trump's zigzagging, lying, and stalling on coming up with real responses to the virus. MAGA. Hospital ventilators are not simple devices. If GM doesn't buy the technology and dies and so forth, I wonder how quickly the auto company can produce them in numbers. Take a chill pill.Â* Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla.Â* What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case.Â* It was GM (big business, remember?)Â* who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. Extortion is the byword of Trump. Have we spent $100 million yet on his golfing weekends? It's going to take GM and anyone else some time...weeks, months? to start producing reliable ventilators. Maybe we'll need them.Â* Hopefully we won't.Â* But knowledge has been gained about how to be prepared and there's talk that even if this cycle of covid-19 dies down, it may be back again ... or something like it. You are treating this as if it's business as usual.Â* It's not. This is a national emergency the likes of which none of us have seen in our life time. Extraordinary measures are in order. Two days ago the Dems were accusing Trump of not fully invoking the Defense Act.Â* He was criticized of relying on the promises of GM, Ford and Tesla.Â* But now that GM is playing games and he fully invokes the Defense Act, he's now being criticized by the same people for doing it. If there's anything that can be used to dump on Trump you and your pals will take full advantage of it. It's a little disgusting under the circumstances. What's your source for stating that GM is playing games? Trump or one of his administration lackeys? |
General Motors
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 3/27/20 7:56 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/27/2020 7:35 PM, Tim wrote: Mr. Luddite - show quoted text - Take a chill pill. Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla. What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case. It was GM (big business, remember?) who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. +IBw - show quoted text - I+IBk-m surprised that someone like Toyota or Honda hasn+IBk-t already put them into production. Or the people who make CPAC machines for that matter Toyota or Honda could probably do it but I am not sure they fall under the Defense Production Act. Maybe the US plants do. The key isn't a need to re-invent the wheel. The key is manufacturing capacity and space to do it, something the auto manufacturers have. Issue here is that GM, Ford and Tesla offered without being asked or directed to by invoking the act. GM apparently reneged somewhat, lowering how many they could build and upping the price. Remains to be seen what Ford and Tesla does. The reality is, the Trump Administration is not being transparent on this issue, and therefore we don't know what transpired between Trump and GM. Just today, he apparently told Pence not to call the governors of at least two states regarding the virus because they didn't "appreciate" him. Which begs the question , If Fat Harry doesn't know what transpired how does he known Trump hasn't been transparent? Fat Harry needs to engage his brain before he lets crap fly from his keyboard. -- .. ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
General Motors
Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text - I've been window shopping (on the computer) but right now isn't the best time to be out at car/truck dealerships. In July it will be 3 years since I bought the GMC Canyon. For my purposes it has been fine with no major issues other than a problem GM had using the wrong transmission fluid that caused a "shutter". That was fixed and I have no complaints. I've always liked Fords though. If Ford ponies up and helps with the covid-19 crisis and with memories of them not taking a bail-out back in 2009 like GM did, it may be enough for me to dump the Canyon and buy a Ford something. - show quoted text -“ I’ve driven ford products for about the last 20 years with no complaints. Just bought a used f-150 a month ago. |
General Motors
On 3/28/20 10:59 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
I've been window shopping (on the computer) but right now isn't the best time to be out at car/truck dealerships.Â* In July it will be 3 years since I bought the GMC Canyon. For my purposes it has been fine with no major issues other than a problem GM had using the wrong transmission fluid that caused a "shutter".Â* That was fixed and I have no complaints. I've always liked Fords though.Â* If Ford ponies up and helps with the covid-19 crisis and with memories of them not taking a bail-out back in 2009 like GM did, it may be enough for me to dump the Canyon and buy a Ford something. You'd trade in a perfectly good vehicle based on bull**** Trump is spreading about GM? Heh heh heh. You boyz are something else. I just hit 40,000 miles in my Toyota Tacoma with absolutely no issues. I did replace a battery and I get the 10,000 mile service done like clockwork. Truck still looks new. Can't think of a reason to trade it in on a new one, not even with the email offers I keep getting from the dealer. |
General Motors
John H
- show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one |
General Motors
On 3/28/2020 12:25 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 3/28/20 10:59 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I've been window shopping (on the computer) but right now isn't the best time to be out at car/truck dealerships.Â* In July it will be 3 years since I bought the GMC Canyon. For my purposes it has been fine with no major issues other than a problem GM had using the wrong transmission fluid that caused a "shutter".Â* That was fixed and I have no complaints. I've always liked Fords though.Â* If Ford ponies up and helps with the covid-19 crisis and with memories of them not taking a bail-out back in 2009 like GM did, it may be enough for me to dump the Canyon and buy a Ford something. You'd trade in a perfectly good vehicle based on bull**** Trump is spreading about GM? Heh heh heh. You boyz are something else. I just hit 40,000 miles in my Toyota Tacoma with absolutely no issues. I did replace a battery and I get the 10,000 mile service done like clockwork. Truck still looks new. Can't think of a reason to trade it in on a new one, not even with the email offers I keep getting from the dealer. So? Because you can't think of a reason to trade it in, I can't? You really are something else. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote:
John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. And here I thought every 10-12 years was extravagant! -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
General Motors
On 3/28/2020 5:13 PM, John wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. And here I thought every 10-12 years was extravagant! Well, it sorta sinks in when I realize that even a gas powered truck today costs almost twice what our first house cost when I left the Navy. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 17:22:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 3/28/2020 5:13 PM, John wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. And here I thought every 10-12 years was extravagant! Well, it sorta sinks in when I realize that even a gas powered truck today costs almost twice what our first house cost when I left the Navy. I sold my first house, in Tampa, for $12,500. And it was a decent sized three bedroom. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
General Motors
John wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 17:22:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 5:13 PM, John wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. And here I thought every 10-12 years was extravagant! Well, it sorta sinks in when I realize that even a gas powered truck today costs almost twice what our first house cost when I left the Navy. I sold my first house, in Tampa, for $12,500. And it was a decent sized three bedroom. -- Freedom Isn't Free! My first new car, a 1964 Chevy Impala SS 4 speed, 300 hp 327, cost me $3371 out the door in September of 1963. My first house in 1969 costs $25,000 3 bedroom in pleasant Hill, CA. My last truck cost $5900 for the sales tax and registration. |
General Motors
On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 18:19:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: Apparently, after promising to tool up to produce ventilators, GM started demanding excessive up front money, jacking the price per ventilator up and producing less than was originally promised. Trump just punched back, invoking the Defense Production Act to require General Motors to produce the ventilators, like it or not. That's it. I am trading my GM Canyon in on a Ford. There was a guy from a ventilator company on NBC tonight saying they have a deal with GM so let's see how that goes. These things still take time. It took almost a year before the Guide Lamp division could tool up to make M3 submachine guns in WWII but once they did, they were rolling out the door by the thousands. I just wonder what we are going to do with a half million ventilators when this is all over. I am still fascinated with the bare bones designs after looking at the MIT thing. I see a few things they could improve right away. It is clear these boys were working with what they had in the robotics lab and the actuator is far too complicated, perhaps too fragile too for something that has to go three quarters of a million cycles or more a month. I think some kind of industrial bellows, a gear rack and a stepper motor might be more appropriate and cheaper. I doubt you even need a PIC. Maybe something as simple as a dual 556 timer, a D flipflop to make pretty square waves and a stepper motor driver chip. Timer one is the stepper motor drive and timer two sets up the timing and length of the stroke, in conjunction with the motor speed. A couple of opto sensors to tell you where the rack is and a pressure regulator. The brain could be a couple of garden variety CMOS gates just determine which way to go based on where the opto sensors says it is. I doubt I am much over $20 in parts plus the price of the can, a filter and the mask hose assembly. The reality is once someone designs the can and the mounting points for the hardware in a pattern that any metal fab shop can bang out, this is easily that $100 ventilator and it could be built in a light industrial bay anywhere. That is just me thinking out loud. I have every confidence American ingenuity will solve these problems pretty fast. BTW, no gloves, use a dog poop bag if you are just handling random objects that might be contaminated. (an idea from the military Facebook group) |
General Motors
On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 19:07:11 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote: Hospital ventilators are not simple devices. No because medical equipment salesmen sell them. The basic operation is pretty simple tho. You are just replicating a fireman squeezing a bag. Is the $100 one the greatest thing ever, probably not but if it keeps the person moving air through their lungs, that is all you need. I would rather have a $100 home made ventilator that works than just sit there wheezing, wishing a $30,000 one was available. |
General Motors
On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 19:56:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 3/27/2020 7:35 PM, Tim wrote: Mr. Luddite - show quoted text - Take a chill pill. Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla. What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case. It was GM (big business, remember?) who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. “ - show quoted text - I’m surprised that someone like Toyota or Honda hasn’t already put them into production. Or the people who make CPAC machines for that matter Toyota or Honda could probably do it but I am not sure they fall under the Defense Production Act. Maybe the US plants do. The key isn't a need to re-invent the wheel. The key is manufacturing capacity and space to do it, something the auto manufacturers have. You may not need to reinvent the wheel but you can certainly make stamped steel wheels and not those gold plated things that cost $30,000 and do far more than you really need. I would simply fall back to the difference between a M1928 (Al Capone) Thompson SMG and the stamped steel M3 Grease Gun. Certainly the Thompson is prettier and has more features but when you just want to throw lead at the bad guy, an M3 is all you need. All we are trying to do is help someone get air in their lungs and back out. In reality that is all a CPAP machine is too. Tim is right. Similar function and technology. |
General Motors
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. I seem to be more like a 20 year cycle but I am not as rich as you ;-) I keep thinking I should get rid of my 97 Honda but I can't think of why. I am going to run it till it blows up, call AAA, have it towed, take my tags and mail them the title. Right now we have three vehicles in the driveway and only one driver. I really should get rid of something. I need a truck, my wife won't ride an anything but the Lincoln and I still like driving my Honda so I guess that is that. |
General Motors
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 17:13:30 -0400, John wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. And here I thought every 10-12 years was extravagant! When I was 19-21 I was trading every year. I was putting 50k a year on them tho and those old Chevys were getting pretty tired by then. |
General Motors
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 17:22:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 3/28/2020 5:13 PM, John wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. And here I thought every 10-12 years was extravagant! Well, it sorta sinks in when I realize that even a gas powered truck today costs almost twice what our first house cost when I left the Navy. Yeah I paid $31k for this one in 1971 http://gfretwell.com/ftp/72house.jpg My ex still lives there. |
General Motors
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General Motors
On 3/29/2020 7:50 AM, John wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:22:36 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. I seem to be more like a 20 year cycle but I am not as rich as you ;-) I keep thinking I should get rid of my 97 Honda but I can't think of why. I am going to run it till it blows up, call AAA, have it towed, take my tags and mail them the title. Right now we have three vehicles in the driveway and only one driver. I really should get rid of something. I need a truck, my wife won't ride an anything but the Lincoln and I still like driving my Honda so I guess that is that. I keep thinking I want a car. Looking at old Mercedes diesels or something like a Honda civic or crv. The only advantage it would have would be better mileage than the truck. But then I think of the cost of the car, insurance, maintenance, taxes, and gas, and realize it would probably take me about 47 years to break even on the fuel cost savings. So, I still don't have the auto. Sometimes you should do things simply because you feel like it or it interests you. All in moderation, of course. I had the last F-250 for almost 9 years but I also had a "kicker" car just for running around town or simply because it interested me. As a result, after almost 9 years the F-250 only had about 43K miles on it and when I traded it in the dealership was drooling over getting it. I used the F-250 mostly for what it was designed to do ... pulling a trailer with the tractor on it, plowing snow in the winter and hauling heavy stuff like landscaping bricks, etc. Only took it for a long distance once (to South Carolina and back) and had fun trying to average better than 15 miles per gallon. :-) -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 07:21:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 3/28/2020 11:08 PM, wrote: On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 19:56:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/27/2020 7:35 PM, Tim wrote: Mr. Luddite - show quoted text - Take a chill pill. Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla. What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case. It was GM (big business, remember?) who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. “ - show quoted text - I’m surprised that someone like Toyota or Honda hasn’t already put them into production. Or the people who make CPAC machines for that matter Toyota or Honda could probably do it but I am not sure they fall under the Defense Production Act. Maybe the US plants do. The key isn't a need to re-invent the wheel. The key is manufacturing capacity and space to do it, something the auto manufacturers have. You may not need to reinvent the wheel but you can certainly make stamped steel wheels and not those gold plated things that cost $30,000 and do far more than you really need. I would simply fall back to the difference between a M1928 (Al Capone) Thompson SMG and the stamped steel M3 Grease Gun. Certainly the Thompson is prettier and has more features but when you just want to throw lead at the bad guy, an M3 is all you need. All we are trying to do is help someone get air in their lungs and back out. In reality that is all a CPAP machine is too. Tim is right. Similar function and technology. I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator. Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC. He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially. They start with a oxygen face mask. If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate. At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. I suppose the CPAP just does not provide the delivery pressure to inflate a lung. I have seen one, my IBM buddy has one now but I never really paid that much attention to it. |
General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:00:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 3/29/2020 7:50 AM, John wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:22:36 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. I seem to be more like a 20 year cycle but I am not as rich as you ;-) I keep thinking I should get rid of my 97 Honda but I can't think of why. I am going to run it till it blows up, call AAA, have it towed, take my tags and mail them the title. Right now we have three vehicles in the driveway and only one driver. I really should get rid of something. I need a truck, my wife won't ride an anything but the Lincoln and I still like driving my Honda so I guess that is that. I keep thinking I want a car. Looking at old Mercedes diesels or something like a Honda civic or crv. The only advantage it would have would be better mileage than the truck. But then I think of the cost of the car, insurance, maintenance, taxes, and gas, and realize it would probably take me about 47 years to break even on the fuel cost savings. So, I still don't have the auto. Sometimes you should do things simply because you feel like it or it interests you. All in moderation, of course. I had the last F-250 for almost 9 years but I also had a "kicker" car just for running around town or simply because it interested me. As a result, after almost 9 years the F-250 only had about 43K miles on it and when I traded it in the dealership was drooling over getting it. I used the F-250 mostly for what it was designed to do ... pulling a trailer with the tractor on it, plowing snow in the winter and hauling heavy stuff like landscaping bricks, etc. Only took it for a long distance once (to South Carolina and back) and had fun trying to average better than 15 miles per gallon. :-) For a while I was using the truck mostly for pulling the trailer. But I find it much more comfortable than my wife's Subaru, so we've started using it for trailerless trips also. I try, on the interstate, to keep the mileage above 22, without the trailer, and above 12 with the trailer. For the local stuff, I'll use the motorcycle if the weather's decent. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 07:21:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 11:08 PM, wrote: On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 19:56:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/27/2020 7:35 PM, Tim wrote: Mr. Luddite - show quoted text - Take a chill pill. Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla. What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case. It was GM (big business, remember?) who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. “ - show quoted text - I’m surprised that someone like Toyota or Honda hasn’t already put them into production. Or the people who make CPAC machines for that matter Toyota or Honda could probably do it but I am not sure they fall under the Defense Production Act. Maybe the US plants do. The key isn't a need to re-invent the wheel. The key is manufacturing capacity and space to do it, something the auto manufacturers have. You may not need to reinvent the wheel but you can certainly make stamped steel wheels and not those gold plated things that cost $30,000 and do far more than you really need. I would simply fall back to the difference between a M1928 (Al Capone) Thompson SMG and the stamped steel M3 Grease Gun. Certainly the Thompson is prettier and has more features but when you just want to throw lead at the bad guy, an M3 is all you need. All we are trying to do is help someone get air in their lungs and back out. In reality that is all a CPAP machine is too. Tim is right. Similar function and technology. I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator. Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC. He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially. They start with a oxygen face mask. If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate. At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. I suppose the CPAP just does not provide the delivery pressure to inflate a lung. I have seen one, my IBM buddy has one now but I never really paid that much attention to it. A good article on what happens to the lung: https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/healt...deo/index.html -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
General Motors
On 3/29/2020 8:11 AM, John wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:00:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/29/2020 7:50 AM, John wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:22:36 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. I seem to be more like a 20 year cycle but I am not as rich as you ;-) I keep thinking I should get rid of my 97 Honda but I can't think of why. I am going to run it till it blows up, call AAA, have it towed, take my tags and mail them the title. Right now we have three vehicles in the driveway and only one driver. I really should get rid of something. I need a truck, my wife won't ride an anything but the Lincoln and I still like driving my Honda so I guess that is that. I keep thinking I want a car. Looking at old Mercedes diesels or something like a Honda civic or crv. The only advantage it would have would be better mileage than the truck. But then I think of the cost of the car, insurance, maintenance, taxes, and gas, and realize it would probably take me about 47 years to break even on the fuel cost savings. So, I still don't have the auto. Sometimes you should do things simply because you feel like it or it interests you. All in moderation, of course. I had the last F-250 for almost 9 years but I also had a "kicker" car just for running around town or simply because it interested me. As a result, after almost 9 years the F-250 only had about 43K miles on it and when I traded it in the dealership was drooling over getting it. I used the F-250 mostly for what it was designed to do ... pulling a trailer with the tractor on it, plowing snow in the winter and hauling heavy stuff like landscaping bricks, etc. Only took it for a long distance once (to South Carolina and back) and had fun trying to average better than 15 miles per gallon. :-) For a while I was using the truck mostly for pulling the trailer. But I find it much more comfortable than my wife's Subaru, so we've started using it for trailerless trips also. I try, on the interstate, to keep the mileage above 22, without the trailer, and above 12 with the trailer. For the local stuff, I'll use the motorcycle if the weather's decent. The F-350 diesel I had previous to the F-250 gasser was purchased for the same reason ... towing a fifth wheel RV. It delivered above 20 mpg in normal use ... assuming the 6.0L engine it had ran. I had tried a GM 2500 diesel as well and it rode a lot softer than the Ford. It was a nice truck but I went for the Ford in the end. Should have researched the problems with that engine more. Worst riding truck I had was a 1998 Dodge Ram 2500. Rode like a brick but was otherwise a nice truck. The Fords ride better but not as nice as the GM offerings. I haven't tried a F-150 though. I've heard they ride like a large car, being on a different suspension than the Superduty Fords. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:21:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 3/29/2020 8:11 AM, John wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:00:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/29/2020 7:50 AM, John wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:22:36 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. I seem to be more like a 20 year cycle but I am not as rich as you ;-) I keep thinking I should get rid of my 97 Honda but I can't think of why. I am going to run it till it blows up, call AAA, have it towed, take my tags and mail them the title. Right now we have three vehicles in the driveway and only one driver. I really should get rid of something. I need a truck, my wife won't ride an anything but the Lincoln and I still like driving my Honda so I guess that is that. I keep thinking I want a car. Looking at old Mercedes diesels or something like a Honda civic or crv. The only advantage it would have would be better mileage than the truck. But then I think of the cost of the car, insurance, maintenance, taxes, and gas, and realize it would probably take me about 47 years to break even on the fuel cost savings. So, I still don't have the auto. Sometimes you should do things simply because you feel like it or it interests you. All in moderation, of course. I had the last F-250 for almost 9 years but I also had a "kicker" car just for running around town or simply because it interested me. As a result, after almost 9 years the F-250 only had about 43K miles on it and when I traded it in the dealership was drooling over getting it. I used the F-250 mostly for what it was designed to do ... pulling a trailer with the tractor on it, plowing snow in the winter and hauling heavy stuff like landscaping bricks, etc. Only took it for a long distance once (to South Carolina and back) and had fun trying to average better than 15 miles per gallon. :-) For a while I was using the truck mostly for pulling the trailer. But I find it much more comfortable than my wife's Subaru, so we've started using it for trailerless trips also. I try, on the interstate, to keep the mileage above 22, without the trailer, and above 12 with the trailer. For the local stuff, I'll use the motorcycle if the weather's decent. The F-350 diesel I had previous to the F-250 gasser was purchased for the same reason ... towing a fifth wheel RV. It delivered above 20 mpg in normal use ... assuming the 6.0L engine it had ran. I had tried a GM 2500 diesel as well and it rode a lot softer than the Ford. It was a nice truck but I went for the Ford in the end. Should have researched the problems with that engine more. Worst riding truck I had was a 1998 Dodge Ram 2500. Rode like a brick but was otherwise a nice truck. The Fords ride better but not as nice as the GM offerings. I haven't tried a F-150 though. I've heard they ride like a large car, being on a different suspension than the Superduty Fords. Before I bought my first pickup, a GMC, I test drove a Dodge. You're right, it was the absolute worst riding vehicle I've been in, other than maybe an M-60 tank going cross-country. We didnt' go two miles, in town, and took it back to the dealer with a 'no thanks'. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote:
I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator. Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC. He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially. They start with a oxygen face mask. If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate. At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. === I read somewhere recently that the survival rate for ICU patients on ventilators was about 50%, and virtually all of the 50% survivors had some permanent lung damage. Unfortunately I don't have the original cite for that. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 07:50:30 -0400, John wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:22:36 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. I seem to be more like a 20 year cycle but I am not as rich as you ;-) I keep thinking I should get rid of my 97 Honda but I can't think of why. I am going to run it till it blows up, call AAA, have it towed, take my tags and mail them the title. Right now we have three vehicles in the driveway and only one driver. I really should get rid of something. I need a truck, my wife won't ride an anything but the Lincoln and I still like driving my Honda so I guess that is that. I keep thinking I want a car. Looking at old Mercedes diesels or something like a Honda civic or crv. The only advantage it would have would be better mileage than the truck. But then I think of the cost of the car, insurance, maintenance, taxes, and gas, and realize it would probably take me about 47 years to break even on the fuel cost savings. So, I still don't have the auto. -- === You can pick up older Mercedes diesels for fairly reasonable prices. We just sold a 2007 E320 with 130K miles on it for $3K, the Kelly bluebook price. The car still looked great and ran very well most of the time. It had begun to develop some annoying electronic glitches however that our mechanic couldn't get a handle on. It was a v6 turbo diesel that developed 400 ft-lbs of torque and got over 30 mpg. The fuel range on trips was close to 700 miles. Except for the glitches it was still a great car that will probably go another 70K miles or more. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
On 3/29/2020 11:13 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote: I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator. Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC. He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially. They start with a oxygen face mask. If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate. At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. === I read somewhere recently that the survival rate for ICU patients on ventilators was about 50%, and virtually all of the 50% survivors had some permanent lung damage. Unfortunately I don't have the original cite for that. The doc I heard said basically the same thing which was a surprise to me. The ventilators that are being talked about so much are the "last ditch" effort to try to save people who are severely affected and the survival rate, as you say and as the doc said, is only about 50 percent ... maybe even less. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
On 3/29/20 12:02 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/29/2020 11:13 AM, wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote: I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator.Â*Â* Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC.Â* He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially.Â* They start with a oxygen face mask.Â* If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate.Â* At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. === I read somewhere recently that the survival rate for ICU patients on ventilators was about 50%, and virtually all of the 50% survivors had some permanent lung damage.Â* Unfortunately I don't have the original cite for that. The doc I heard said basically the same thing which was a surprise to me.Â* The ventilators that are being talked about so much are the "last ditch" effort to try to save people who are severely affected and the survival rate, as you say and as the doc said, is only about 50 percent ... maybe even less. What we need are massive, city by city rallies of Trump supporters interacting on a close, personal level, especially the ones who bought into their saviour's bull**** of how insignificant the impact of the virus would be. Party on, and then head to Florida's west coast beaches. |
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