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General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 07:21:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 3/28/2020 11:08 PM, wrote: On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 19:56:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/27/2020 7:35 PM, Tim wrote: Mr. Luddite - show quoted text - Take a chill pill. Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla. What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case. It was GM (big business, remember?) who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. “ - show quoted text - I’m surprised that someone like Toyota or Honda hasn’t already put them into production. Or the people who make CPAC machines for that matter Toyota or Honda could probably do it but I am not sure they fall under the Defense Production Act. Maybe the US plants do. The key isn't a need to re-invent the wheel. The key is manufacturing capacity and space to do it, something the auto manufacturers have. You may not need to reinvent the wheel but you can certainly make stamped steel wheels and not those gold plated things that cost $30,000 and do far more than you really need. I would simply fall back to the difference between a M1928 (Al Capone) Thompson SMG and the stamped steel M3 Grease Gun. Certainly the Thompson is prettier and has more features but when you just want to throw lead at the bad guy, an M3 is all you need. All we are trying to do is help someone get air in their lungs and back out. In reality that is all a CPAP machine is too. Tim is right. Similar function and technology. I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator. Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC. He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially. They start with a oxygen face mask. If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate. At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. I suppose the CPAP just does not provide the delivery pressure to inflate a lung. I have seen one, my IBM buddy has one now but I never really paid that much attention to it. |
General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:00:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 3/29/2020 7:50 AM, John wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:22:36 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. I seem to be more like a 20 year cycle but I am not as rich as you ;-) I keep thinking I should get rid of my 97 Honda but I can't think of why. I am going to run it till it blows up, call AAA, have it towed, take my tags and mail them the title. Right now we have three vehicles in the driveway and only one driver. I really should get rid of something. I need a truck, my wife won't ride an anything but the Lincoln and I still like driving my Honda so I guess that is that. I keep thinking I want a car. Looking at old Mercedes diesels or something like a Honda civic or crv. The only advantage it would have would be better mileage than the truck. But then I think of the cost of the car, insurance, maintenance, taxes, and gas, and realize it would probably take me about 47 years to break even on the fuel cost savings. So, I still don't have the auto. Sometimes you should do things simply because you feel like it or it interests you. All in moderation, of course. I had the last F-250 for almost 9 years but I also had a "kicker" car just for running around town or simply because it interested me. As a result, after almost 9 years the F-250 only had about 43K miles on it and when I traded it in the dealership was drooling over getting it. I used the F-250 mostly for what it was designed to do ... pulling a trailer with the tractor on it, plowing snow in the winter and hauling heavy stuff like landscaping bricks, etc. Only took it for a long distance once (to South Carolina and back) and had fun trying to average better than 15 miles per gallon. :-) For a while I was using the truck mostly for pulling the trailer. But I find it much more comfortable than my wife's Subaru, so we've started using it for trailerless trips also. I try, on the interstate, to keep the mileage above 22, without the trailer, and above 12 with the trailer. For the local stuff, I'll use the motorcycle if the weather's decent. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 07:21:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 11:08 PM, wrote: On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 19:56:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/27/2020 7:35 PM, Tim wrote: Mr. Luddite - show quoted text - Take a chill pill. Or maybe you've already taken too many? First of all, it's not like GM or Ford or Tesla has to start from scratch. The POTUS under the Defense Production Act can order the design drawings, manufacturing procedures, bills of material with sources from any current manufacturer to be given to GM, Ford or Tesla. What the auto manufacturers bring to the table is manufacturing capacity. Second, I am surprised to see you dumping on the Donald in this case. It was GM (big business, remember?) who was trying to extort and take advantage of a national crisis. “ - show quoted text - I’m surprised that someone like Toyota or Honda hasn’t already put them into production. Or the people who make CPAC machines for that matter Toyota or Honda could probably do it but I am not sure they fall under the Defense Production Act. Maybe the US plants do. The key isn't a need to re-invent the wheel. The key is manufacturing capacity and space to do it, something the auto manufacturers have. You may not need to reinvent the wheel but you can certainly make stamped steel wheels and not those gold plated things that cost $30,000 and do far more than you really need. I would simply fall back to the difference between a M1928 (Al Capone) Thompson SMG and the stamped steel M3 Grease Gun. Certainly the Thompson is prettier and has more features but when you just want to throw lead at the bad guy, an M3 is all you need. All we are trying to do is help someone get air in their lungs and back out. In reality that is all a CPAP machine is too. Tim is right. Similar function and technology. I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator. Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC. He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially. They start with a oxygen face mask. If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate. At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. I suppose the CPAP just does not provide the delivery pressure to inflate a lung. I have seen one, my IBM buddy has one now but I never really paid that much attention to it. A good article on what happens to the lung: https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/healt...deo/index.html -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
General Motors
On 3/29/2020 8:11 AM, John wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:00:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/29/2020 7:50 AM, John wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:22:36 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. I seem to be more like a 20 year cycle but I am not as rich as you ;-) I keep thinking I should get rid of my 97 Honda but I can't think of why. I am going to run it till it blows up, call AAA, have it towed, take my tags and mail them the title. Right now we have three vehicles in the driveway and only one driver. I really should get rid of something. I need a truck, my wife won't ride an anything but the Lincoln and I still like driving my Honda so I guess that is that. I keep thinking I want a car. Looking at old Mercedes diesels or something like a Honda civic or crv. The only advantage it would have would be better mileage than the truck. But then I think of the cost of the car, insurance, maintenance, taxes, and gas, and realize it would probably take me about 47 years to break even on the fuel cost savings. So, I still don't have the auto. Sometimes you should do things simply because you feel like it or it interests you. All in moderation, of course. I had the last F-250 for almost 9 years but I also had a "kicker" car just for running around town or simply because it interested me. As a result, after almost 9 years the F-250 only had about 43K miles on it and when I traded it in the dealership was drooling over getting it. I used the F-250 mostly for what it was designed to do ... pulling a trailer with the tractor on it, plowing snow in the winter and hauling heavy stuff like landscaping bricks, etc. Only took it for a long distance once (to South Carolina and back) and had fun trying to average better than 15 miles per gallon. :-) For a while I was using the truck mostly for pulling the trailer. But I find it much more comfortable than my wife's Subaru, so we've started using it for trailerless trips also. I try, on the interstate, to keep the mileage above 22, without the trailer, and above 12 with the trailer. For the local stuff, I'll use the motorcycle if the weather's decent. The F-350 diesel I had previous to the F-250 gasser was purchased for the same reason ... towing a fifth wheel RV. It delivered above 20 mpg in normal use ... assuming the 6.0L engine it had ran. I had tried a GM 2500 diesel as well and it rode a lot softer than the Ford. It was a nice truck but I went for the Ford in the end. Should have researched the problems with that engine more. Worst riding truck I had was a 1998 Dodge Ram 2500. Rode like a brick but was otherwise a nice truck. The Fords ride better but not as nice as the GM offerings. I haven't tried a F-150 though. I've heard they ride like a large car, being on a different suspension than the Superduty Fords. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:21:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 3/29/2020 8:11 AM, John wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:00:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/29/2020 7:50 AM, John wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:22:36 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. I seem to be more like a 20 year cycle but I am not as rich as you ;-) I keep thinking I should get rid of my 97 Honda but I can't think of why. I am going to run it till it blows up, call AAA, have it towed, take my tags and mail them the title. Right now we have three vehicles in the driveway and only one driver. I really should get rid of something. I need a truck, my wife won't ride an anything but the Lincoln and I still like driving my Honda so I guess that is that. I keep thinking I want a car. Looking at old Mercedes diesels or something like a Honda civic or crv. The only advantage it would have would be better mileage than the truck. But then I think of the cost of the car, insurance, maintenance, taxes, and gas, and realize it would probably take me about 47 years to break even on the fuel cost savings. So, I still don't have the auto. Sometimes you should do things simply because you feel like it or it interests you. All in moderation, of course. I had the last F-250 for almost 9 years but I also had a "kicker" car just for running around town or simply because it interested me. As a result, after almost 9 years the F-250 only had about 43K miles on it and when I traded it in the dealership was drooling over getting it. I used the F-250 mostly for what it was designed to do ... pulling a trailer with the tractor on it, plowing snow in the winter and hauling heavy stuff like landscaping bricks, etc. Only took it for a long distance once (to South Carolina and back) and had fun trying to average better than 15 miles per gallon. :-) For a while I was using the truck mostly for pulling the trailer. But I find it much more comfortable than my wife's Subaru, so we've started using it for trailerless trips also. I try, on the interstate, to keep the mileage above 22, without the trailer, and above 12 with the trailer. For the local stuff, I'll use the motorcycle if the weather's decent. The F-350 diesel I had previous to the F-250 gasser was purchased for the same reason ... towing a fifth wheel RV. It delivered above 20 mpg in normal use ... assuming the 6.0L engine it had ran. I had tried a GM 2500 diesel as well and it rode a lot softer than the Ford. It was a nice truck but I went for the Ford in the end. Should have researched the problems with that engine more. Worst riding truck I had was a 1998 Dodge Ram 2500. Rode like a brick but was otherwise a nice truck. The Fords ride better but not as nice as the GM offerings. I haven't tried a F-150 though. I've heard they ride like a large car, being on a different suspension than the Superduty Fords. Before I bought my first pickup, a GMC, I test drove a Dodge. You're right, it was the absolute worst riding vehicle I've been in, other than maybe an M-60 tank going cross-country. We didnt' go two miles, in town, and took it back to the dealer with a 'no thanks'. -- Freedom Isn't Free! |
General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote:
I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator. Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC. He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially. They start with a oxygen face mask. If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate. At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. === I read somewhere recently that the survival rate for ICU patients on ventilators was about 50%, and virtually all of the 50% survivors had some permanent lung damage. Unfortunately I don't have the original cite for that. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 07:50:30 -0400, John wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:22:36 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:53:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/28/2020 1:12 PM, Tim wrote: John H - show quoted text - The new Ford 150 looks like a super truck. My SIL got one through the company, and he loves it. - show quoted text -“ Can’t afford to buy new but would love to have one I may change my mind when I start seriously looking. A new vehicle every 3-4 years is one unnecessary luxury I still afford myself though. I seem to be more like a 20 year cycle but I am not as rich as you ;-) I keep thinking I should get rid of my 97 Honda but I can't think of why. I am going to run it till it blows up, call AAA, have it towed, take my tags and mail them the title. Right now we have three vehicles in the driveway and only one driver. I really should get rid of something. I need a truck, my wife won't ride an anything but the Lincoln and I still like driving my Honda so I guess that is that. I keep thinking I want a car. Looking at old Mercedes diesels or something like a Honda civic or crv. The only advantage it would have would be better mileage than the truck. But then I think of the cost of the car, insurance, maintenance, taxes, and gas, and realize it would probably take me about 47 years to break even on the fuel cost savings. So, I still don't have the auto. -- === You can pick up older Mercedes diesels for fairly reasonable prices. We just sold a 2007 E320 with 130K miles on it for $3K, the Kelly bluebook price. The car still looked great and ran very well most of the time. It had begun to develop some annoying electronic glitches however that our mechanic couldn't get a handle on. It was a v6 turbo diesel that developed 400 ft-lbs of torque and got over 30 mpg. The fuel range on trips was close to 700 miles. Except for the glitches it was still a great car that will probably go another 70K miles or more. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
On 3/29/2020 11:13 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote: I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator. Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC. He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially. They start with a oxygen face mask. If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate. At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. === I read somewhere recently that the survival rate for ICU patients on ventilators was about 50%, and virtually all of the 50% survivors had some permanent lung damage. Unfortunately I don't have the original cite for that. The doc I heard said basically the same thing which was a surprise to me. The ventilators that are being talked about so much are the "last ditch" effort to try to save people who are severely affected and the survival rate, as you say and as the doc said, is only about 50 percent ... maybe even less. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
General Motors
On 3/29/20 12:02 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/29/2020 11:13 AM, wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:04:49 -0400, wrote: I saw a doctor being asked if a CPAP machine could be modified for use as a ventilator.Â*Â* Answer was "No". Also saw another doc who is currently working in a hospital in NYC.Â* He explained the protocols and steps taken when a person is admitted with covid-19 and has difficulty breathing. They are not put on a ventilator initially.Â* They start with a oxygen face mask.Â* If the patient responds well, that's all they do. Often though, the patient will initially seem to do better but then deteriorate.Â* At that point they use another type of oxygen delivery system that is under pressure. If that fails, they go to another oxygen system that I can't remember how it differs, but somehow it's a 'high delivery" system. If that fails the patient is then put on a ventilator. The doc said the ventilator is used when all else has failed and is used as a last resort. I still haven't heard what the survival rate is when measures go that far. === I read somewhere recently that the survival rate for ICU patients on ventilators was about 50%, and virtually all of the 50% survivors had some permanent lung damage.Â* Unfortunately I don't have the original cite for that. The doc I heard said basically the same thing which was a surprise to me.Â* The ventilators that are being talked about so much are the "last ditch" effort to try to save people who are severely affected and the survival rate, as you say and as the doc said, is only about 50 percent ... maybe even less. What we need are massive, city by city rallies of Trump supporters interacting on a close, personal level, especially the ones who bought into their saviour's bull**** of how insignificant the impact of the virus would be. Party on, and then head to Florida's west coast beaches. |
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