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#2
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Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in the days of compasses and paper charts. === There's no question about it. I started long distance cruising in 1974 when we bought our first sailboat big enough to sleep on. We had no electronic aids at all other than an old fashioned, flashing light depth sounder, and an inexpensive radio direction finder which was cumbersome to use and very imprecise. The RDF and depth sounder put us ahead of many other boat of that time however, and we navigated for many years and thousands of miles with nothing else. Dead reckoning and shore bearings were the gold standards of coastal navigation until the mid 1980s when Loran-C became widely available. Suddenly we now knew where we were within 100 yards or so, at least most of the time. |
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#3
posted to rec.boats
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Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in the days of compasses and paper charts. === There's no question about it. I started long distance cruising in 1974 when we bought our first sailboat big enough to sleep on. We had no electronic aids at all other than an old fashioned, flashing light depth sounder, and an inexpensive radio direction finder which was cumbersome to use and very imprecise. The RDF and depth sounder put us ahead of many other boat of that time however, and we navigated for many years and thousands of miles with nothing else. Dead reckoning and shore bearings were the gold standards of coastal navigation until the mid 1980s when Loran-C became widely available. Suddenly we now knew where we were within 100 yards or so, at least most of the time. I can remember as a kid in the 1950’s, using a cheap portable radio with a directional antenna to help navigate back to the Golden Gate Bridge in the fog from the Farallon Islands. A coupe radio stations had a tower by the eastern end of the Oakland Bay Bridge which somewhat lined up with the Gate. |
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#4
posted to rec.boats
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Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 17:04:44 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42? boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in the days of compasses and paper charts. === There's no question about it. I started long distance cruising in 1974 when we bought our first sailboat big enough to sleep on. We had no electronic aids at all other than an old fashioned, flashing light depth sounder, and an inexpensive radio direction finder which was cumbersome to use and very imprecise. The RDF and depth sounder put us ahead of many other boat of that time however, and we navigated for many years and thousands of miles with nothing else. Dead reckoning and shore bearings were the gold standards of coastal navigation until the mid 1980s when Loran-C became widely available. Suddenly we now knew where we were within 100 yards or so, at least most of the time. I can remember as a kid in the 1950’s, using a cheap portable radio with a directional antenna to help navigate back to the Golden Gate Bridge in the fog from the Farallon Islands. A coupe radio stations had a tower by the eastern end of the Oakland Bay Bridge which somewhat lined up with the Gate. I started using the radio towers here for a visual indication of where I was and they all have unique blink rates at night so they are easy to differentiate. It turns out there are three that do an excellent job of marking the path you need to move around in the bay at night and if you also use the 96 K-Rock tower, in conjunction with the bridge lights to get through Big Carlos Pass without hitting the bars on both sides. |
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#5
posted to rec.boats
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Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in the days of compasses and paper charts. That still doesn't mean you can avoid learning the basics of seamanship and navigation. For a river and bay boater like me, that is all overkill anyway. If I was trying to find a small Caribbean island in a big ocean, I see the need but just trying to avoid a jetty or oyster bar that may not be in the database in the first place is just giving a false sense of security. |
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#6
posted to rec.boats
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Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
On 1/2/2020 11:29 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in the days of compasses and paper charts. That still doesn't mean you can avoid learning the basics of seamanship and navigation. For a river and bay boater like me, that is all overkill anyway. If I was trying to find a small Caribbean island in a big ocean, I see the need but just trying to avoid a jetty or oyster bar that may not be in the database in the first place is just giving a false sense of security. Don't think we were talking "seamanship". That's a wide ranging subject. Boating with "local knowledge" really isn't celestial navigation either. I think very few of us .... with the exception of Wayne ... really needs to know how to navigate by the stars. Even local boating for me was primarily local knowledge. Even on fishing trips, 30-40 miles off shore didn't require any great navigation skills. In fact, without GPS, it would be almost impossible to find our "secret spot" for cod. Without GPS, I would probably be up to a half mile away. With GPS, I could find the rise on the ocean bottom in 260 feet of water that was our "secret spot" within a couple of yards. If the GPS crapped out, all I really had to do is follow the compass west. Eventually, I'd hit land. |
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#7
posted to rec.boats
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Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/2/2020 11:29 AM, wrote: On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks a 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in the days of compasses and paper charts. That still doesn't mean you can avoid learning the basics of seamanship and navigation. For a river and bay boater like me, that is all overkill anyway. If I was trying to find a small Caribbean island in a big ocean, I see the need but just trying to avoid a jetty or oyster bar that may not be in the database in the first place is just giving a false sense of security. Don't think we were talking "seamanship". That's a wide ranging subject. Boating with "local knowledge" really isn't celestial navigation either. I think very few of us .... with the exception of Wayne ... really needs to know how to navigate by the stars. Even local boating for me was primarily local knowledge. Even on fishing trips, 30-40 miles off shore didn't require any great navigation skills. In fact, without GPS, it would be almost impossible to find our "secret spot" for cod. Without GPS, I would probably be up to a half mile away. With GPS, I could find the rise on the ocean bottom in 260 feet of water that was our "secret spot" within a couple of yards. If the GPS crapped out, all I really had to do is follow the compass west. Eventually, I'd hit land. Unfortunately, if I headed west looking for land, odds are I would have empty tank before land. |
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#8
posted to rec.boats
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Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
On Thursday, January 2, 2020 at 6:17:08 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 1/2/2020 11:29 AM, wrote: On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks a 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in the days of compasses and paper charts. That still doesn't mean you can avoid learning the basics of seamanship and navigation. For a river and bay boater like me, that is all overkill anyway. If I was trying to find a small Caribbean island in a big ocean, I see the need but just trying to avoid a jetty or oyster bar that may not be in the database in the first place is just giving a false sense of security. Don't think we were talking "seamanship". That's a wide ranging subject. |
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#9
posted to rec.boats
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Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 15:30:59 -0800 (PST), Its Me wrote:
On Thursday, January 2, 2020 at 6:17:08 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 1/2/2020 11:29 AM, wrote: On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks a 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in the days of compasses and paper charts. That still doesn't mean you can avoid learning the basics of seamanship and navigation. For a river and bay boater like me, that is all overkill anyway. If I was trying to find a small Caribbean island in a big ocean, I see the need but just trying to avoid a jetty or oyster bar that may not be in the database in the first place is just giving a false sense of security. Don't think we were talking "seamanship". That's a wide ranging subject. Boating with "local knowledge" really isn't celestial navigation either. I think very few of us .... with the exception of Wayne ... really needs to know how to navigate by the stars. Even local boating for me was primarily local knowledge. Even on fishing trips, 30-40 miles off shore didn't require any great navigation skills. In fact, without GPS, it would be almost impossible to find our "secret spot" for cod. Without GPS, I would probably be up to a half mile away. With GPS, I could find the rise on the ocean bottom in 260 feet of water that was our "secret spot" within a couple of yards. If the GPS crapped out, all I really had to do is follow the compass west. Eventually, I'd hit land. Unfortunately, if I headed west looking for land, odds are I would have empty tank before land. Turn your compass around.  LOL! |
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#10
posted to rec.boats
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Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 23:17:06 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 1/2/2020 11:29 AM, wrote: On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks a 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in the days of compasses and paper charts. That still doesn't mean you can avoid learning the basics of seamanship and navigation. For a river and bay boater like me, that is all overkill anyway. If I was trying to find a small Caribbean island in a big ocean, I see the need but just trying to avoid a jetty or oyster bar that may not be in the database in the first place is just giving a false sense of security. Don't think we were talking "seamanship". That's a wide ranging subject. Boating with "local knowledge" really isn't celestial navigation either. I think very few of us .... with the exception of Wayne ... really needs to know how to navigate by the stars. Even local boating for me was primarily local knowledge. Even on fishing trips, 30-40 miles off shore didn't require any great navigation skills. In fact, without GPS, it would be almost impossible to find our "secret spot" for cod. Without GPS, I would probably be up to a half mile away. With GPS, I could find the rise on the ocean bottom in 260 feet of water that was our "secret spot" within a couple of yards. If the GPS crapped out, all I really had to do is follow the compass west. Eventually, I'd hit land. Unfortunately, if I headed west looking for land, odds are I would have empty tank before land. Me too. That was how the 5 "lost patrol" guys died. They were over the Atlantic and thought they were in the Gulf. My sailboat buddy did the opposite coming back from Belize. They thought they were in the Atlantic and they were in the Gulf. They decided due North was the best plan. They would hit North Carolina. They hit St Pete. Being a sailboat, fuel was not an issue but food and water were getting pretty serious. |
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