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Default Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale

On 1/2/2020 1:31 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 22:50:10 -0500 (EST), Justan Ohlphart
wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night...

https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks
ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge.

Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever
decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the
newer technology available.


Did you read what John wrote? People who trust their GPS blindly, hit
things that are not in the database. The database for the bay here is
pretty much useless anyway unless you just accept "don't go there" as
an answer.
The other issue is, if your electronics fail, do you just drop anchor
and call sea tow, hoping they can triangulate your position on their
radio or something?
I know people who think their Garmin Chart Plotter is all they ever
need. They don't even have a compass and no charts on board ... if
they could read them in the first place.

If that chart plotter craps out they are screwed, particularly at
night.

OTOH I navigate at night using local landmarks (radio towers, condos,
mangrove islands I recognize) and simply knowing where I am and where
I am going.



Greg, your feelings are pretty much exactly how I felt when I first got
into ocean boating. But once I graduated to the larger boats equipped
with GPS, chart plotters and radar I realized that technology had much
to offer over the old ways.

I still had paper charts aboard and obviously a compass but found that
the only time I had to use the charts was to program way-points into
the chart plotter before getting underway in the morning. Never had
to revert to navigating by charts and compass alone.


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Default Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale

On Thu, 02 Jan 2020 01:31:11 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 22:50:10 -0500 (EST), Justan Ohlphart
wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night...

https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks
ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge.

Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever
decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the
newer technology available.


Did you read what John wrote? People who trust their GPS blindly, hit
things that are not in the database. The database for the bay here is
pretty much useless anyway unless you just accept "don't go there" as
an answer.
The other issue is, if your electronics fail, do you just drop anchor
and call sea tow, hoping they can triangulate your position on their
radio or something?
I know people who think their Garmin Chart Plotter is all they ever
need. They don't even have a compass and no charts on board ... if
they could read them in the first place.

If that chart plotter craps out they are screwed, particularly at
night.

OTOH I navigate at night using local landmarks (radio towers, condos,
mangrove islands I recognize) and simply knowing where I am and where
I am going.


The key words are, "People who trust their GPS blindly..."

Obviously that's stupid. Boating without a compass and charts is stupid.

Using electronics as an aid is not stupid.
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Default Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale

On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge.



Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever
decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the
newer technology available.



I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood
and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in
the days of compasses and paper charts.


===

There's no question about it. I started long distance cruising in
1974 when we bought our first sailboat big enough to sleep on. We had
no electronic aids at all other than an old fashioned, flashing light
depth sounder, and an inexpensive radio direction finder which was
cumbersome to use and very imprecise. The RDF and depth sounder put
us ahead of many other boat of that time however, and we navigated for
many years and thousands of miles with nothing else. Dead reckoning
and shore bearings were the gold standards of coastal navigation until
the mid 1980s when Loran-C became widely available. Suddenly we now
knew where we were within 100 yards or so, at least most of the time.
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Posts: 148
Default Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale

On 1/2/2020 1:31 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 22:50:10 -0500 (EST), Justan Ohlphart
wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night...

https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks
ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge.

Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever
decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the
newer technology available.


Did you read what John wrote? People who trust their GPS blindly, hit
things that are not in the database. The database for the bay here is
pretty much useless anyway unless you just accept "don't go there" as
an answer.
The other issue is, if your electronics fail, do you just drop anchor
and call sea tow, hoping they can triangulate your position on their
radio or something?
I know people who think their Garmin Chart Plotter is all they ever
need. They don't even have a compass and no charts on board ... if
they could read them in the first place.

If that chart plotter craps out they are screwed, particularly at
night.

OTOH I navigate at night using local landmarks (radio towers, condos,
mangrove islands I recognize) and simply knowing where I am and where
I am going.

I did.
Knowing where you are and where you are going is a lot easier if you
have help from a variety of electronic and mechanical instruments.
Having local knowledge helps if you are local and you can see what is
around you.
I remember when all I had was a compass, binoculars, a chart and a Ray
Jefferson RDF.Dividers and parallel rules came shortly after. We've come
a long way since then.



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Default Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale

On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night...

https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks
ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge.


Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever
decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the
newer technology available.



I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood
and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in
the days of compasses and paper charts.


That still doesn't mean you can avoid learning the basics of
seamanship and navigation. For a river and bay boater like me, that is
all overkill anyway. If I was trying to find a small Caribbean island
in a big ocean, I see the need but just trying to avoid a jetty or
oyster bar that may not be in the database in the first place is just
giving a false sense of security.
  #17   Report Post  
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Default Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale

On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:14:10 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/2/2020 1:31 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 22:50:10 -0500 (EST), Justan Ohlphart
wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night...

https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks
ina 42’ boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge.

Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever
decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the
newer technology available.


Did you read what John wrote? People who trust their GPS blindly, hit
things that are not in the database. The database for the bay here is
pretty much useless anyway unless you just accept "don't go there" as
an answer.
The other issue is, if your electronics fail, do you just drop anchor
and call sea tow, hoping they can triangulate your position on their
radio or something?
I know people who think their Garmin Chart Plotter is all they ever
need. They don't even have a compass and no charts on board ... if
they could read them in the first place.

If that chart plotter craps out they are screwed, particularly at
night.

OTOH I navigate at night using local landmarks (radio towers, condos,
mangrove islands I recognize) and simply knowing where I am and where
I am going.



Greg, your feelings are pretty much exactly how I felt when I first got
into ocean boating. But once I graduated to the larger boats equipped
with GPS, chart plotters and radar I realized that technology had much
to offer over the old ways.

I still had paper charts aboard and obviously a compass but found that
the only time I had to use the charts was to program way-points into
the chart plotter before getting underway in the morning. Never had
to revert to navigating by charts and compass alone.


I saw that the Navy is going back to teaching celestial navigation to
their crews so somebody must think it is important. I suppose someone
pointed out the GPS satellites might only last a couple days in a real
war.
I am not saying these new things are not handy. I am just saying
everyone is depending on technology too much and forgetting basic
skills. It is not just boating. Stand next to a broken cash register
and watch the kid try to make change. It is scary.
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Posts: 4,553
Default Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H.
wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:John H.
wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex
wrote: Last night...
https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/
Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That
happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow
the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going
slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42Â’ boat.For sure speed.
Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line
offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone
knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is
taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge.



Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever
decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the
newer technology available.



I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood
and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in
the days of compasses and paper charts.


===

There's no question about it. I started long distance cruising in
1974 when we bought our first sailboat big enough to sleep on. We had
no electronic aids at all other than an old fashioned, flashing light
depth sounder, and an inexpensive radio direction finder which was
cumbersome to use and very imprecise. The RDF and depth sounder put
us ahead of many other boat of that time however, and we navigated for
many years and thousands of miles with nothing else. Dead reckoning
and shore bearings were the gold standards of coastal navigation until
the mid 1980s when Loran-C became widely available. Suddenly we now
knew where we were within 100 yards or so, at least most of the time.


I can remember as a kid in the 1950’s, using a cheap portable radio with a
directional antenna to help navigate back to the Golden Gate Bridge in the
fog from the Farallon Islands. A coupe radio stations had a tower by the
eastern end of the Oakland Bay Bridge which somewhat lined up with the
Gate.

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Default Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale

Wrote in message:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:14:10 -0500, "Mr. wrote:On 1/2/2020 1:31 AM,
wrote: On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 22:50:10 -0500 (EST), Justan Ohlphart wrote: Wrote in message: On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H. wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:John H. wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex wrote: Last night... https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/ Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42+IBk boat.For sure speed. Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge. Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the newer technology available. Did you read what John wrote? People who trust their GPS blindly, hit things that are not in the database. The database for the bay here is pretty much useless anyway unless you just accept "don't go there" as an answer. The other issue is, if your electronics fail, do you just drop anchor and call sea tow, hoping they can triangulate your position on their radio or something? I know people who think their Garmin Chart Plotter is all they ever need. They don't even have a compass and no charts on board ... if they could read them in the first place. If that chart plotter craps out they are screwed, particularly at night. OTOH I navigate at night using local landmarks (radio towers, condos, mangrove islands I recognize) and simply knowing where I am and where I am going. Greg, your feelings are pretty much exactly how I felt when I first gotinto ocean boating. But once I graduated to the larger boats equippedwith GPS, chart plotters and radar I realized that technology had muchto offer over the old ways.I still had paper charts aboard and obviously a compass but found thatthe only time I had to use the charts was to program way-points intothe chart plotter before getting underway in the morning. Never hadto revert to navigating by charts and compass alone.I saw that the Navy is going back to teaching celestial navigation totheir crews so somebody must think it is important. I suppose someonepointed out the GPS satellites might only last a couple days in a realwar. I am not saying these new things are not handy. I am just sayingeveryone is depending on technology too much and forgetting basicskills. It is not just boating. Stand next to a broken cash registerand watch the kid try to make change. It is scary.

Pretty soon all us folks who remember how it used to be will be
dead and material currency will be a collectors item. Wars will
be fought with joysticks. Future combatants are being trained by
video games.


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
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Default Boat crash in Ft. Lauderdale

On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 17:04:44 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 07:05:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/1/2020 10:50 PM, Justan Ohlphart wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 13:00:28 -0500, John H.
wrote:On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 16:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:John H.
wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:13:43 -0500, Alex
wrote: Last night...
https://wsvn.com/news/local/several-injured-after-boat-crashes-into-jetty-near-fort-lauderdale/
Cocktails? Not every jetty shows up on a GPS. That
happened a few times in Deale, MD, when folks would follow
the GPS to get home. Midnight and speed. He was not going
slow to get that far up the rocks ina 42? boat.For sure speed.
Same thing happens in Deale. Going fast and taking the line
offered by the GPS hasbeen the problem more than once. Everyone
knows I am the real Luddite here but I fear modernelectronics is
taking the place of basic seamanship and the importanceof local knowledge.


Why do you fear modern ways of navigating? If you should ever
decide to expand your horizons, you might embrace some of the
newer technology available.



I think that the advent of GPS, chart plotters and radar (if understood
and used properly) have made boating (and aviation) much safer than in
the days of compasses and paper charts.


===

There's no question about it. I started long distance cruising in
1974 when we bought our first sailboat big enough to sleep on. We had
no electronic aids at all other than an old fashioned, flashing light
depth sounder, and an inexpensive radio direction finder which was
cumbersome to use and very imprecise. The RDF and depth sounder put
us ahead of many other boat of that time however, and we navigated for
many years and thousands of miles with nothing else. Dead reckoning
and shore bearings were the gold standards of coastal navigation until
the mid 1980s when Loran-C became widely available. Suddenly we now
knew where we were within 100 yards or so, at least most of the time.


I can remember as a kid in the 1950’s, using a cheap portable radio with a
directional antenna to help navigate back to the Golden Gate Bridge in the
fog from the Farallon Islands. A coupe radio stations had a tower by the
eastern end of the Oakland Bay Bridge which somewhat lined up with the
Gate.


I started using the radio towers here for a visual indication of where
I was and they all have unique blink rates at night so they are easy
to differentiate. It turns out there are three that do an excellent
job of marking the path you need to move around in the bay at night
and if you also use the 96 K-Rock tower, in conjunction with the
bridge lights to get through Big Carlos Pass without hitting the bars
on both sides.
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