On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 22:25:11 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:10:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Sometimes I yearn for the good old days. Firing up a 50 HP Mercury
"Tower of Power" to go water-skiing with the 16' "run-a-bout".
The smell of the blue, unburned mixed fuel wafting in the air
and the oil slicks in the water at idle. Ah ... those were the
days.

===

You can still enjoy that experience if you go down to the islands and
buy a Yamaha "Enduro". They are all over the place, and in many
different hp ratings. Maybe I should go into the import business.

https://global.yamaha-motor.com/abou...er_source/001/

I imagine they are illegal to import but so is cocaine and there seems
to be plenty of that around. I guess if you sold them on Ebay or
Craig's list, nobody would say anything. There would be a problem for
anyone who likes a warranty tho.
I am guessing most parts would be the same as the old 2 strokes and
they seem to be around.

On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote:
I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner

Mariner outboard history
Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage.

Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally.

The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner� to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand.

Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new
Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the
American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles.

Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine
was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name.

When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with
Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same.

In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one
advantage� with its dual outboard brands.

However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant.

In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular.

In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S.


So now we know...

Interesting.

In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast, Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats, the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha.

Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a
smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2
smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those
old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he
likes working on motors.

On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:
- show quoted text -
Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a
smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2
smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those
old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he
likes working on motors.

.......
I’ve got a140 v4 and controls laid up for when the merc115 takes a big dump.

wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote:
I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner

Mariner outboard history
Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and
Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage.

Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two
outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal
market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard
line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally.

The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner� to invoke a reliable,
durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast,
high-performance image of the Mercury brand.

Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and
Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for
Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in
Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers,
eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new
Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new
endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to
Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the
previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe
and the United States; in conjunction with the
American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River
from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles.

Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the
Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the
joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the
Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to
haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine
was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and
Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha
was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name.

When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the
door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In
fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige
product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it
continued to be sold in direct competition with
Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more
similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in
1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same.

In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was
debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors
were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far
larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception
remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one
advantage� with its dual outboard brands.

However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand
strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number
of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing
costs for a single outboard brand would be significant.

In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but
to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular.

In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury
and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals —
for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality,
expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S.


So now we know...

Interesting.

In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast,
Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats,
the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha.

Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a
smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2
smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those
old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he
likes working on motors.


We are seeing a lot more new Suzuki here.

Bill
- show quoted text -
We are seeing a lot more new Suzuki here.

......

Suzuki is doing well in my area. There for a while the 2-smokers got a bad rap for scoring. Done know if people were mixing fuel wrong ow what. For a while in the local you saw lots of shiny Suzuki “parts� motors ..

On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:33:59 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote:
I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner

Mariner outboard history
Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and
Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage.

Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two
outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal
market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard
line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally.

The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner� to invoke a reliable,
durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast,
high-performance image of the Mercury brand.

Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and
Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for
Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in
Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers,
eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new
Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new
endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to
Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the
previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe
and the United States; in conjunction with the
American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River
from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles.

Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the
Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the
joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the
Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to
haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine
was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and
Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha
was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name.

When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the
door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In
fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige
product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it
continued to be sold in direct competition with
Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more
similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in
1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same.

In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was
debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors
were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far
larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception
remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one
advantage� with its dual outboard brands.

However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand
strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number
of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing
costs for a single outboard brand would be significant.

In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but
to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular.

In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury
and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals —
for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality,
expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S.


So now we know...

Interesting.

In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast,
Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats,
the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha.

Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a
smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2
smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those
old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he
likes working on motors.


We are seeing a lot more new Suzuki here.

The commercial operator here seems to like them after blowing up two
Etecs. I haven't talked to my captain buddies for a while but the last
time I talked to them their Zekes were clocking 5000-6000 hours each
and they have a bunch of them pushing pontoon boats 38-52 foot.

On 3/26/2019 3:00 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:33:59 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote:
I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner

Mariner outboard history
Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and
Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage.

Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two
outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal
market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard
line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally.

The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner� to invoke a reliable,
durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast,
high-performance image of the Mercury brand.

Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and
Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for
Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in
Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers,
eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new
Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new
endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to
Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the
previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe
and the United States; in conjunction with the
American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River
from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles.

Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the
Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the
joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the
Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to
haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine
was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and
Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha
was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name.

When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the
door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In
fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige
product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it
continued to be sold in direct competition with
Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more
similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in
1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same.

In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was
debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors
were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far
larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception
remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one
advantage� with its dual outboard brands.

However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand
strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number
of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing
costs for a single outboard brand would be significant.

In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but
to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular.

In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury
and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals —
for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality,
expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S.


So now we know...

Interesting.

In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast,
Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats,
the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha.

Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a
smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2
smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those
old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he
likes working on motors.


We are seeing a lot more new Suzuki here.

The commercial operator here seems to like them after blowing up two
Etecs. I haven't talked to my captain buddies for a while but the last
time I talked to them their Zekes were clocking 5000-6000 hours each
and they have a bunch of them pushing pontoon boats 38-52 foot.



Wasn't "Tom" a big advocate for E-tecs?



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:35:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner

Mariner outboard history
Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage.

Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally.

The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner� to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand.

Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new Mariner
Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the American
debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles.

Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine was
monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name.

When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with
Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same.

In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one
advantage� with its dual outboard brands.

However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant.

In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular.

In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S.


So now we know...

My 1989-90 Mariner 3 cyl 2 stroke 75 was identical to the Merc 70 and
the Yamaha 70 except Yamaha used their lower unit. Merc and Mariner
L/Us were the same and basically the same L/U that lives on as the
"Big Foot" on 40s to 60s along with being standard the 70-90.
I put around 4000 hours on that engine and still got $900 for it.

On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:35:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:
- show quoted text -
My 1989-90 Mariner 3 cyl 2 stroke 75 was identical to the Merc 70 and
the Yamaha 70 except Yamaha used their lower unit. Merc and Mariner
L/Us were the same and basically the same L/U that lives on as the
"Big Foot" on 40s to 60s along with being standard the 70-90.
I put around 4000 hours on that engine and still got $900 for it.
......

I do know that yamaha made mariners small in the late 70s

Tim wrote:

On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:35:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:
- show quoted text -
My 1989-90 Mariner 3 cyl 2 stroke 75 was identical to the Merc 70 and
the Yamaha 70 except Yamaha used their lower unit. Merc and Mariner
L/Us were the same and basically the same L/U that lives on as the
"Big Foot" on 40s to 60s along with being standard the 70-90.
I put around 4000 hours on that engine and still got $900 for it.
.....

I do know that yamaha made mariners small in the late 70s


I had a 15 Mariner on my 14’ aluminum skiff. Never a problem with that for
the years I had it. Even used it as a kicker for awhile on my Jet Boat.
Sold the motor and boat to,a guy who had a place in Baja. The motor was a
terrible kicker. The high thrust T-8 put it to shame. The mariner just
stirred the water, with little push at low speeds.