Another ...
 

On Sun, 1 Jul 2018 02:15:43 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:

Fretwell's point on industrial gases is...absurd.


What is absurd on the industrial gases? Columbine and at least one other
mass attack had rigged propane bombs, which luckily failed to explode.

Those were just kids who flunked chemistry or never watched Myth
busters. The gas inside the tank is not particularly dangerous.

Another ...
 

Alex wrote:
True North wrote:
ohn H

- hide quoted text -

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 16:44:54 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

Mr. Luddite

- show quoted text -

"This is why we need uniform gun laws rather than the patchwork system we
have now"



Bingo!
Federal laws should regulate firearms and the laws exactly the same
from Hillbilly Heaven, Virginia to Boston's finest neighbourhoods.
"You've no idea what the **** you're talking about."

Really?
We get more of your news on cable tv than we need or want.



Many cities with the toughest gun laws, like Chicago, have the most
gun-related crime. The problem is the people with the guns don't care
about the laws and use stolen guns for their crimes. The majority of
these cities have Democrats for mayors. Ask your friend about that.



When we were in Alaska I commented on the amount of guns. Was told an
armed society is a polite society.

Another ...
 

wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 21:15:38 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


The same video games and movies pretty much are played and watched in
democracies around the world. Why don't those societies have the sort of
mass shootings we do? Could it be the easy availability of guns and a
gun culture?

We have a much more violent culture over all. We have more people
beating other people to death with their bare hands than most of those
other countries have, total murders, in any given year.
To those other countries, Grand Theft Auto is just a fantasy. If you
live in Baltimore or Chicago, it looks a lot like your daily life and
you probably know guys who steal cars for a living.

I know the news only wants to report white people getting killed at
school or at work but if that was the only murders we had, we would
look better than Sweden. The fact remains drug and gang violence, just
like those video games, is what drives our murder rate.

Next time I get bored I will load the new 2016 FBI crime data set into
a database manager and give you all some "views" you don't see on TV.

If I just slice out "europeans" killing "europeans" I bet we start
looking a lot more like Europe.
Of course then you will call me a racist.


We were a country that was pretty much settle by aggressive, misfits.
Took a lot to pack what little you owned and figured out a way to get to
America or you were a debtor or thief that was sent here. I think that is
one of the reasons the African background people whose ancestors came as
slaves have more problems than the later immigration groups. They were a
docile group. If you were aggressive, you were either a supplier or you
were dead.

Another ...
 

wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jul 2018 02:15:43 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:

Fretwell's point on industrial gases is...absurd.


What is absurd on the industrial gases? Columbine and at least one other
mass attack had rigged propane bombs, which luckily failed to explode.

Those were just kids who flunked chemistry or never watched Myth
busters. The gas inside the tank is not particularly dangerous.


They tried to use a small explosive to rupture the tank I think. Did not
rupture. And a fast leaking tank is a bomb. Couple years ago, in Dublin,
Ca near me, a minister was blown through the glass patio doors when the
tank developed a giant leak.

Another ...
 

On 6/30/2018 8:58 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:59:21 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/30/2018 2:05 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 13:56:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/30/2018 10:34 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/30/18 9:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/30/2018 7:44 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 17:19:51 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:28:47 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 6/29/18 12:09 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/29/2018 11:38 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/29/18 11:32 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:05:34 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 6/28/18 10:55 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 21:13:47 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 6/28/18 8:50 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/28/2018 8:38 PM, Tim wrote:
Mr. Luddite

... shooting in Annapolis, MD ?
..........

This strict gun control laws are really paying off, aren’t
they?



Tim, it's more like this country has gone totally crazy and
out of
control.Â* No clues yet what this guy's motive was but it won't
surprise me if he turns out to beÂ* a right wing nutcase.


Well, for what it is worth, the police have identified the
guy from
photo recognition software. It was reported he did
"something" to
obliterate his fingerprints. He's a white man, 39 years old,
named
Jarrod Warren Ramos, according to multiple law enforcement
sources, who
apparently lives in Laurel, Maryland.

Ramos has a connection to the paper. He filed a defamation claim
in 2012
against the paper but the case was dismissed. He also has a
minor
conviction for "harassment" some years ago.



Tim thinks Maryland has "strict" gun laws. That's kind of funny,
since
Maryland doesn't have "strict" gun laws.

They have most of the things people are clamoring for as
"sensible"
or "common sense" gun laws
* handgun license to buy one
* handgun de facto registration
*Assault Weapons ban
* high cap magazine ban
* universal background checks on all sales
* red flag law

Do they still have that stupid fired case law?


As I said, Maryland does not have strict gun laws.

There is no "handgun license." There is a "handgun qualification
license."Â* Even an idiot like Alex could get one.

I'm not sure what "handgun de facto registration" means.

There is no "assault weapons ban." Most AR-15 type rifles are
banned if
they don't have heavy barrels, but you can buy an AR-10 off the
shelf,
and any number of different semi-auto rifles.

Only the sale of hi-cap mags are prohibited. Possession is
legal, as is
buying them across the state line and bringing them into Maryland.

I have no idea what a "red flag" law is.

Your state is one of the ones the left uses for examples of
sensible
gun laws. BTE to enlighten you the red flag law mean they had the
ability to take Ramos' shotgun based on his social media
rantings but
they didn't.

Thanks for pointing out the futility tho.


Ahh, so there's nothing that can be done. Let 'er rip!


I've come to the conclusion that there really is nothing that can
be done in terms of new gun laws mainly because of how many guns
already exist and the lack of records as to where they are or who
owns them. Yeah, mandatory background checks, etc., may help but most
places already have them.

The only thing I can think of .... and this will cause indigestion
for
many here ... is a required registration of all guns
and strict enforcement of the required registration.Â* If for some
reason
you are found to be in possession of a firearm that is not
registered to
you as it's owner, it results in immediate confiscation of that
firearm.

The data base or registry identifies the owner and the owner is held
responsible for it and it's use.Â* If stolen, sold or legally
transferred a report of that event or transfer would be required
within
48 hours.

Not dissimilar for titles for vehicles.

So to some ... go take an antacid.

It's the tiny bit of liberal DNA in me.







I'd certainly support complete registration of all firearms as a
decent
start. Used firearms must be registered, too. Along with the
registration, a mandatory background check of the purchaser. All
firearms, no exceptions.

That would not have changed any of the recent shootings at all.
They had no problem tracing this guy's shotgun back to the dealer
within hours. What would registration do?


I can't understand why you are so down on registration of firearms
and the attendant paperwork and
bureaucracy.

The purpose of all that is to help find the perpetrator when he robs
a 7/11, shoots someone, and
leaves his gun on the counter as he departs.

Now get off this negative attitude!



There's another aspect of mandatory gun registration that I'd like to
see implemented and enforced.Â* Similar to some of the Admiralty/Maritime
laws, I think firearms used in any kind of criminal activity should have
some level of responsibility traced back to the owner on record,
regardless if the owner on record was even remotely connected to the
crime committed.

Before Greg points out that it "wouldn't have prevented any mass
killings" so therefore it's not helpful,Â* I'd like to make the point
that perhaps with some criminal responsibility hanging on owner's
heads they may be more careful in the control of who has access to
their firearms.Â* I am thinking of the kid in one of these shootings
who got the firearm from his mother who technically owned it.

It's more of an issue of reinforcing awareness of the responsibility
that goes with having firearms.

1 or 2 new laws certainly are not going to end mass shootings or
criminal activities using firearms.Â* What is required is a cultural
change that includes those who are so adamant about their 2nd
Amendment rights and all the naysayers who find every reason in the
world to argue that any further attempt to control the use and
ownership of firearms is fruitless.Â* Change has to start somewhere.
Better to recognize and
accept that there's a serious problem and support those reasonable
attempts to at least have some potential affect than to turn a blind
eye and wake up someday to find that far more draconian measures have
been enacted.

I fully support the right to gun ownership for last resort self defense
and sporting activities.Â* With that right comes responsibility however.



I'd extend that responsibility to anyone who "gifts" a kid a firearm.


I see no problem if the "kid" is of legal age to own the firearm and
it is transferred to him along with a new registration of ownership.

That leaves the original owner (gifter) with no further responsibility.

Of course under the rules I have proposed if someone just gifts a
firearm to someone without any documentation of the transfer, the
original owner should still be held responsible if that firearm ever
becomes used in criminal activity.


I still ask, why is documentation a mitigator in any crimes?
What difference does it really make?
Virtually every one of these mass shootings involve legally purchased
and properly documented firearms.

When you look at the bulk of the murders (around the drug trade), the
guns are usually stolen and I doubt anyone will be rushing down to the
police station to register a stolen gun, particularly since most are
barred from owning one in the first place.



Because we have to change our thinking about gun ownership, not outlaw them.

You said you had a shotgun at 15 and "unfettered" access to a .22 before
then. Tim just mentioned that he had a .357 at 15 and a .44 at 17.

Obviously both of you were responsible and careful with them otherwise
either or both of you would not be around to be posting in rec.boats today.

But, let me ask you this:

Do you (and Tim) think that now-a-days any 15 year old kid in your
neighborhoods should have the right to have a shotgun or a .357 whatever
it was?

Is your confidence in other families and the parents that control
them high enough to feel comfortable with kids barely beyond puberty
walking around with those firearms?

Not me. Many parents today don't even enforce some of the basic
rules we grew up with.



So now, at least, you seem to be admitting this is a societal problem
more than a gun problem. Why not put the same scrutiny on parents that
you want to put on guns?
Why do we need to wait until a kid shoots up his school or more likely
kills himself before we even start to look at what kind of parents and
family structure they have?
We have spent so much time freeing "mom" from her main responsibility
raising her kids to pursue a career and told everyone single parent
household families are fine that we have forgotten kids need parents.




Greg, I have been suggesting all throughout this discussion that we
*have* a societal problem, i.e. "culture" that includes a lax attitude
about guns, the responsibilities that come with having them and the
easy access of getting them. In no way do I think a registration
requirement for gun ownership is going to solve all our problems but
I think you have to start somewhere. Guns have played a role in most
of the mass shootings that have occurred it seems, so if we are going
to try to change our culture it seems like that is a good place to start.

Another ...
 

On 6/30/2018 9:22 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/30/18 9:18 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 19:56:38 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:36:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The laws governing the purchase of a shotgun in Florida are stricter
than those in Maryland.

I bought a shotgun in Florida back when we wintered down there after
we found a 4-5 foot rattlesnake coiled up at our front door one day.

Like Maryland, they did a quick telephone background check, rang me up
but I had to wait several days to pick it up and take it home.

Maryland lets you take it home the same day after the quick phone
background check.

===

Are you sure about that?Â* I've never had to wait for anything other
than the background check and that only takes a few minutes, if that.
Filling out the form takes longer.


California used to have no waiting period for long guns, only handguns.
Not now, all have 10 day waiting period.Â* I remember buying my Remington
1100 San Francisco Gun Exchange.Â*Â* Yes SF used to have gun stores.Â* And
they wrapped it in brown paper and handed it to me.Â*Â* My Ithaca 37 from
monkey ward, handed to me with a box of gratis shells.

I am trying to remember the last gun I had to wait for. It was
certainly a while ago if ever. In Florida a CCW gets you out the door
as soon as the NICS check clears and you get the paperwork done.
I really have not bought than many guns tho. Nothing like Harry the
gun dealer or our resident collector.
The last handgun I bought from a store up north was before the GCA68
at Ye Olde Hunter in Alexandria and I think you just paid the man and
left with it. It was a half a century ago tho. I may be wrongÂ* ;-)

I wonder if anyone still has those records?


When I bought my CZ Scorpion some months ago, I walked out of the store
after paying for it in no more than 20 minutes. Just the quick NICS
check. It's usually five full days of waiting for a handgun.


It may be that if you have a LTC or other permit (if required) the
waiting period is waived because you have already had a full background
check.

That said, based on the websites I've looked at, a permit is *not*
required, nor is any proof of training to purchase a unregulated
long gun in Maryland. Perhaps that's when a waiting period is imposed?

Anyway, the point is that the recent Maryland shooter did not require
a permit to purchase the shotgun he used and was likely only subject
to the quick criminal background check they quickly do by phone. If the
court issues he previously had with his beef with the newspaper were
dismissed, there was no criminal background.

Another ...
 

On 6/30/2018 9:23 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 16:02:27 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/30/2018 3:44 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:36:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The laws governing the purchase of a shotgun in Florida are stricter
than those in Maryland.

I bought a shotgun in Florida back when we wintered down there after
we found a 4-5 foot rattlesnake coiled up at our front door one day.

Like Maryland, they did a quick telephone background check, rang me up
but I had to wait several days to pick it up and take it home.

Maryland lets you take it home the same day after the quick phone
background check.

===

Are you sure about that? I've never had to wait for anything other
than the background check and that only takes a few minutes, if that.
Filling out the form takes longer.



I am sure. It was back in 2003 though, so perhaps the rules have
changed. They did the instant (phone) background check, I paid for the
the shotgun but the store had to hold it for something like 5 days
before I could pick it up. Bought it at a WalMart of all places.
Winchester 20 gauge.

It could also have been because I was not
a permanent Florida resident. Don't know. I never had a Florida
driver's license. Florida was kinda strange. I bought and registered
a pickup truck down there with Florida tags but I didn't need a
Florida driver's license to do it.

I still have the shotgun. Never been fired. But now I have a minor problem.

Because I bought it in Florida (well before I had a LTC permit
in Massachusetts) it is technically illegal for me to have it up here.
I didn't know all the rules and laws back then and it may be difficult
for me to legally transfer or sell it. This state has no record that I
have it.

I am sure if I just turned it over to the town police (which is probably
what I'll do when the time comes) they will just take it with no
questions asked.

Bring it back to Florida and sell it.
Alternately list it on one of the gun consignment web sites and sell
it. A Mass FFL will actually be the seller of record to BATF.



The Massachusetts FFL who I talked to won't touch it because I have no
proof of ownership. If I had originally purchased it in Massachusetts
there would be no problem because the transaction would be in the
state database (registration).

It's not a big deal. I am going to look into the information that John
provided. I am about to get rid of most of my firearms anyway. I'll
keep the one I occasionally carry and probably one other. The rest
are just collecting dust in a gun safe.

Another ...
 

On 6/30/2018 9:26 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 16:20:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

If you have a gun stolen from you and you don't even notice it's
missing, I don't think you should have had that gun in the first place.

It might be quite a while before I noticed one missing unless they
made a mess getting to it. Most of mine are all locked away in out of
the way places that are not easy to get to.



Florida is not on the list of states with mandatory reporting of
stolen guns. Here's the list:

States with Mandatory Loss/Theft Reporting Laws

California
Connecticut
Delaware
District of Columbia
Illinois
Maryland (handguns and assault weapons only)
Massachusetts
Michigan (thefts only)
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Rhode Island

That's only 11 states out of the entire USA. Crazy.

Another ...
 

On 6/30/2018 9:26 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 19:12:44 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 6/30/2018 5:55 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:11:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 6/30/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 12:20:13 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 10:34:17 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 6/30/18 9:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/30/2018 7:44 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 17:19:51 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:28:47 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 6/29/18 12:09 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/29/2018 11:38 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/29/18 11:32 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:05:34 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 6/28/18 10:55 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 21:13:47 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 6/28/18 8:50 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/28/2018 8:38 PM, Tim wrote:
Mr. Luddite

... shooting in Annapolis, MD ?
..........

This strict gun control laws are really paying off, aren’t
they?



Tim, it's more like this country has gone totally crazy and
out of
control.Â* No clues yet what this guy's motive was but it won't
surprise me if he turns out to beÂ* a right wing nutcase.


Well, for what it is worth, the police have identified the guy
from
photo recognition software. It was reported he did "something" to
obliterate his fingerprints. He's a white man, 39 years old,
named
Jarrod Warren Ramos, according to multiple law enforcement
sources, who
apparently lives in Laurel, Maryland.

Ramos has a connection to the paper. He filed a defamation claim
in 2012
against the paper but the case was dismissed. He also has a minor
conviction for "harassment" some years ago.



Tim thinks Maryland has "strict" gun laws. That's kind of funny,
since
Maryland doesn't have "strict" gun laws.

They have most of the things people are clamoring for as
"sensible"
or "common sense" gun laws
* handgun license to buy one
* handgun de facto registration
*Assault Weapons ban
* high cap magazine ban
* universal background checks on all sales
* red flag law

Do they still have that stupid fired case law?


As I said, Maryland does not have strict gun laws.

There is no "handgun license." There is a "handgun qualification
license."Â* Even an idiot like Alex could get one.

I'm not sure what "handgun de facto registration" means.

There is no "assault weapons ban." Most AR-15 type rifles are
banned if
they don't have heavy barrels, but you can buy an AR-10 off the
shelf,
and any number of different semi-auto rifles.

Only the sale of hi-cap mags are prohibited. Possession is
legal, as is
buying them across the state line and bringing them into Maryland.

I have no idea what a "red flag" law is.

Your state is one of the ones the left uses for examples of sensible
gun laws. BTE to enlighten you the red flag law mean they had the
ability to take Ramos' shotgun based on his social media rantings
but
they didn't.

Thanks for pointing out the futility tho.


Ahh, so there's nothing that can be done. Let 'er rip!


I've come to the conclusion that there really is nothing that can
be done in terms of new gun laws mainly because of how many guns
already exist and the lack of records as to where they are or who
owns them. Yeah, mandatory background checks, etc., may help but most
places already have them.

The only thing I can think of .... and this will cause indigestion for
many here ... is a required registration of all guns
and strict enforcement of the required registration.Â* If for some
reason
you are found to be in possession of a firearm that is not
registered to
you as it's owner, it results in immediate confiscation of that
firearm.

The data base or registry identifies the owner and the owner is held
responsible for it and it's use.Â* If stolen, sold or legally
transferred a report of that event or transfer would be required
within
48 hours.

Not dissimilar for titles for vehicles.

So to some ... go take an antacid.

It's the tiny bit of liberal DNA in me.







I'd certainly support complete registration of all firearms as a decent
start. Used firearms must be registered, too. Along with the
registration, a mandatory background check of the purchaser. All
firearms, no exceptions.

That would not have changed any of the recent shootings at all.
They had no problem tracing this guy's shotgun back to the dealer
within hours. What would registration do?


I can't understand why you are so down on registration of firearms and
the attendant paperwork and
bureaucracy.

The purpose of all that is to help find the perpetrator when he robs a
7/11, shoots someone, and
leaves his gun on the counter as he departs.

Now get off this negative attitude!



There's another aspect of mandatory gun registration that I'd like to
see implemented and enforced.Â* Similar to some of the Admiralty/Maritime
laws, I think firearms used in any kind of criminal activity should have
some level of responsibility traced back to the owner on record,
regardless if the owner on record was even remotely connected to the
crime committed.

Before Greg points out that it "wouldn't have prevented any mass
killings" so therefore it's not helpful,Â* I'd like to make the point
that perhaps with some criminal responsibility hanging on owner's heads
they may be more careful in the control of who has access to their
firearms.Â* I am thinking of the kid in one of these shootings who got
the firearm from his mother who technically owned it.

It's more of an issue of reinforcing awareness of the responsibility
that goes with having firearms.

1 or 2 new laws certainly are not going to end mass shootings or
criminal activities using firearms.Â* What is required is a cultural
change that includes those who are so adamant about their 2nd Amendment
rights and all the naysayers who find every reason in the world to argue
that any further attempt to control the use and ownership of firearms is
fruitless.Â* Change has to start somewhere.Â* Better to recognize and
accept that there's a serious problem and support those reasonable
attempts to at least have some potential affect than to turn a blind eye
and wake up someday to find that far more draconian measures have been
enacted.

I fully support the right to gun ownership for last resort self defense
and sporting activities.Â* With that right comes responsibility however.



I'd extend that responsibility to anyone who "gifts" a kid a firearm.

I suspect that has more to do with your desire to outlaw hunting in
all forms than preventing mass shootings since millions of "kids" are
given guns every year and a minuscule fraction ever do anything wrong
with them. (other than murder helpless animals)


There you go again. I have ne desire to outlaw hunting in all forms, as ypu
phrase it.

You certainly never miss a chance to criticize it but that still
leaves us with the fact that "kids" are allowed to hunt alone in most
states, including Maryland so that must mean they have unsupervised
use of a firearm.


I was 15 when I got my first shotgun. I had unfettered access to a .22
before that.


I was just looking at Maryland's gun laws including the most recent
changes. The focus of the changes seem to be on assault type "military"
looking long guns and restrictions on magazine capacities.

There still is no minimum age requirement to purchase and own a long gun
however and no permits, proof of training or anything is required.

Seems nuts to me in this day and age. The way I read it a 7 year old
can buy a shotgun or a .22.

A buyer must be 18 to purchase a long gun in Maryland.

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-la...n/minimum-age/



That's a federal law. Note this sentence on another website by the
same Giffords Law Center that you just cited:

"However, there appears to be no minimum age to possess a rifle or
shotgun in the state."

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/minimum-age-to-purchase-possess-in-maryland/

The one I linked to was last updated in November of 2017. Perhaps
Maryland's laws have been further updated since.


Possession and buying are two different things. An adult can buy one and let a kid use it for
hunting or even give it to the kid. But, the kid can't buy it.



You're right. I misunderstood what the website said.

Another ...
 

On 6/30/2018 9:27 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 19:13:17 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 6/30/2018 6:02 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:02:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 6/30/2018 12:17 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 10:34:17 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 6/30/18 9:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/30/2018 7:44 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 17:19:51 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:28:47 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 6/29/18 12:09 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/29/2018 11:38 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/29/18 11:32 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:05:34 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 6/28/18 10:55 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 21:13:47 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 6/28/18 8:50 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/28/2018 8:38 PM, Tim wrote:
Mr. Luddite

... shooting in Annapolis, MD ?
..........

This strict gun control laws are really paying off, aren’t
they?



Tim, it's more like this country has gone totally crazy and
out of
control.Â* No clues yet what this guy's motive was but it won't
surprise me if he turns out to beÂ* a right wing nutcase.


Well, for what it is worth, the police have identified the guy
from
photo recognition software. It was reported he did "something" to
obliterate his fingerprints. He's a white man, 39 years old,
named
Jarrod Warren Ramos, according to multiple law enforcement
sources, who
apparently lives in Laurel, Maryland.

Ramos has a connection to the paper. He filed a defamation claim
in 2012
against the paper but the case was dismissed. He also has a minor
conviction for "harassment" some years ago.



Tim thinks Maryland has "strict" gun laws. That's kind of funny,
since
Maryland doesn't have "strict" gun laws.

They have most of the things people are clamoring for as
"sensible"
or "common sense" gun laws
* handgun license to buy one
* handgun de facto registration
*Assault Weapons ban
* high cap magazine ban
* universal background checks on all sales
* red flag law

Do they still have that stupid fired case law?


As I said, Maryland does not have strict gun laws.

There is no "handgun license." There is a "handgun qualification
license."Â* Even an idiot like Alex could get one.

I'm not sure what "handgun de facto registration" means.

There is no "assault weapons ban." Most AR-15 type rifles are
banned if
they don't have heavy barrels, but you can buy an AR-10 off the
shelf,
and any number of different semi-auto rifles.

Only the sale of hi-cap mags are prohibited. Possession is
legal, as is
buying them across the state line and bringing them into Maryland.

I have no idea what a "red flag" law is.

Your state is one of the ones the left uses for examples of sensible
gun laws. BTE to enlighten you the red flag law mean they had the
ability to take Ramos' shotgun based on his social media rantings
but
they didn't.

Thanks for pointing out the futility tho.


Ahh, so there's nothing that can be done. Let 'er rip!


I've come to the conclusion that there really is nothing that can
be done in terms of new gun laws mainly because of how many guns
already exist and the lack of records as to where they are or who
owns them. Yeah, mandatory background checks, etc., may help but most
places already have them.

The only thing I can think of .... and this will cause indigestion for
many here ... is a required registration of all guns
and strict enforcement of the required registration.Â* If for some
reason
you are found to be in possession of a firearm that is not
registered to
you as it's owner, it results in immediate confiscation of that
firearm.

The data base or registry identifies the owner and the owner is held
responsible for it and it's use.Â* If stolen, sold or legally
transferred a report of that event or transfer would be required
within
48 hours.

Not dissimilar for titles for vehicles.

So to some ... go take an antacid.

It's the tiny bit of liberal DNA in me.







I'd certainly support complete registration of all firearms as a decent
start. Used firearms must be registered, too. Along with the
registration, a mandatory background check of the purchaser. All
firearms, no exceptions.

That would not have changed any of the recent shootings at all.
They had no problem tracing this guy's shotgun back to the dealer
within hours. What would registration do?


I can't understand why you are so down on registration of firearms and
the attendant paperwork and
bureaucracy.

The purpose of all that is to help find the perpetrator when he robs a
7/11, shoots someone, and
leaves his gun on the counter as he departs.

Now get off this negative attitude!



There's another aspect of mandatory gun registration that I'd like to
see implemented and enforced.Â* Similar to some of the Admiralty/Maritime
laws, I think firearms used in any kind of criminal activity should have
some level of responsibility traced back to the owner on record,
regardless if the owner on record was even remotely connected to the
crime committed.

Before Greg points out that it "wouldn't have prevented any mass
killings" so therefore it's not helpful,Â* I'd like to make the point
that perhaps with some criminal responsibility hanging on owner's heads
they may be more careful in the control of who has access to their
firearms.Â* I am thinking of the kid in one of these shootings who got
the firearm from his mother who technically owned it.

It's more of an issue of reinforcing awareness of the responsibility
that goes with having firearms.

1 or 2 new laws certainly are not going to end mass shootings or
criminal activities using firearms.Â* What is required is a cultural
change that includes those who are so adamant about their 2nd Amendment
rights and all the naysayers who find every reason in the world to argue
that any further attempt to control the use and ownership of firearms is
fruitless.Â* Change has to start somewhere.Â* Better to recognize and
accept that there's a serious problem and support those reasonable
attempts to at least have some potential affect than to turn a blind eye
and wake up someday to find that far more draconian measures have been
enacted.

I fully support the right to gun ownership for last resort self defense
and sporting activities.Â* With that right comes responsibility however.



I'd extend that responsibility to anyone who "gifts" a kid a firearm.

I suspect that has more to do with your desire to outlaw hunting in
all forms than preventing mass shootings since millions of "kids" are
given guns every year and a minuscule fraction ever do anything wrong
with them. (other than murder helpless animals)



No problem in states that allow "kids" to have rifles for hunting as
long as they are of the legal age for that state and the rifle is
registered to them. Of course the parents still have parental
responsibilities as to how and when it is used and stored.


Are there states that require the registration of rifles? Massachusetts doesn't, but I see
California does.

"The California Department of Justice ("DOJ") retains information about the purchaser and seller of
all in-state firearm sales and transfers, and requires that any firearms imported into the state be
reported to the DOJ.[14] Furthermore, the Attorney General is required by law to maintain a registry
containing the fingerprints and identifying information of the transferee, and the unique
identifying information of every firearm transferred in the state, pursuant to §11106.[15]"

...according to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_la...tates_by_state

Most states don't require registration of long guns.



I think they should.


We've kicked the paperwork requirement to death. We disagree.



We have. But one other point .... you corrected me about the difference
in Maryland's law regarding minimum age requirements. There's no
minimum age to possess an unregulated long gun but you have to be 18
to buy one. So, who is responsible for the 15 year old (or younger) kid
in possession of a rifle or shotgun?