Another ...
 

Its Me wrote:
On Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 11:41:50 AM UTC-4, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/30/18 11:33 AM, True North wrote:
Keyser Soze

- show quoted text -

"I'd extend that responsibility to anyone who "gifts" a kid a firearm."


I agree wholeheartedly and unequivocally with this post.
I would add that ex military types, who should know better, get double the punishment.



I heard that a very, very special place in hell is reserved for hateful,
racist pieces of **** like Herring. I don't believe in hell, but, if it
does exist, I am sure it would be chock full of Herring-like guys.
Justan, of course, would be stuck forever in purgatory, not being smart
enough to know the electronic door code for hell is 666.

Wow. You are a childish, immature asshole. You are special.


At least he stole something that was unique.writing.

Another ...
 

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/30/18 7:55 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/30/2018 7:36 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/30/2018 5:51 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:38:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/30/2018 12:10 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 09:30:52 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/30/2018 7:44 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 17:19:51 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:28:47 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 6/29/18 12:09 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/29/2018 11:38 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/29/18 11:32 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:05:34 -0400, Keyser Soze

wrote:

On 6/28/18 10:55 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 21:13:47 -0400, Keyser Soze

wrote:

On 6/28/18 8:50 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/28/2018 8:38 PM, Tim wrote:
Mr. Luddite

... shooting in Annapolis, MD ?
..........

This strict gun control laws are really paying off,
aren’t they?



Tim, it's more like this country has gone totally crazy
and out of
control.Â* No clues yet what this guy's motive was but
it won't
surprise me if he turns out to beÂ* a right wing nutcase.


Well, for what it is worth, the police have identified
the guy from
photo recognition software. It was reported he did
"something" to
obliterate his fingerprints. He's a white man, 39 years
old, named
Jarrod Warren Ramos, according to multiple law enforcement
sources, who
apparently lives in Laurel, Maryland.

Ramos has a connection to the paper. He filed a
defamation claim
in 2012
against the paper but the case was dismissed. He also
has a minor
conviction for "harassment" some years ago.



Tim thinks Maryland has "strict" gun laws. That's kind
of funny,
since
Maryland doesn't have "strict" gun laws.

They have most of the things people are clamoring for as
"sensible"
or "common sense" gun laws
* handgun license to buy one
* handgun de facto registration
*Assault Weapons ban
* high cap magazine ban
* universal background checks on all sales
* red flag law

Do they still have that stupid fired case law?


As I said, Maryland does not have strict gun laws.

There is no "handgun license." There is a "handgun
qualification
license."Â* Even an idiot like Alex could get one.

I'm not sure what "handgun de facto registration" means.

There is no "assault weapons ban." Most AR-15 type rifles
are banned if
they don't have heavy barrels, but you can buy an AR-10
off the shelf,
and any number of different semi-auto rifles.

Only the sale of hi-cap mags are prohibited. Possession is
legal, as is
buying them across the state line and bringing them into
Maryland.

I have no idea what a "red flag" law is.

Your state is one of the ones the left uses for examples of
sensible
gun laws. BTE to enlighten you the red flag law mean they
had the
ability to take Ramos' shotgun based on his social media
rantings but
they didn't.

Thanks for pointing out the futility tho.


Ahh, so there's nothing that can be done. Let 'er rip!


I've come to the conclusion that there really is nothing that
can
be done in terms of new gun laws mainly because of how many guns
already exist and the lack of records as to where they are or
who
owns them. Yeah, mandatory background checks, etc., may help
but most
places already have them.

The only thing I can think of .... and this will cause
indigestion for
many here ... is a required registration of all guns
and strict enforcement of the required registration.Â* If for
some reason
you are found to be in possession of a firearm that is not
registered to
you as it's owner, it results in immediate confiscation of
that firearm.

The data base or registry identifies the owner and the owner
is held
responsible for it and it's use.Â* If stolen, sold or legally
transferred a report of that event or transfer would be
required within
48 hours.

Not dissimilar for titles for vehicles.

So to some ... go take an antacid.

It's the tiny bit of liberal DNA in me.







I'd certainly support complete registration of all firearms as
a decent
start. Used firearms must be registered, too. Along with the
registration, a mandatory background check of the purchaser. All
firearms, no exceptions.

That would not have changed any of the recent shootings at all.
They had no problem tracing this guy's shotgun back to the dealer
within hours. What would registration do?


I can't understand why you are so down on registration of firearms
and the attendant paperwork and
bureaucracy.

The purpose of all that is to help find the perpetrator when he
robs
a 7/11, shoots someone, and
leaves his gun on the counter as he departs.

Now get off this negative attitude!



There's another aspect of mandatory gun registration that I'd
like to
see implemented and enforced.Â* Similar to some of the
Admiralty/Maritime
laws, I think firearms used in any kind of criminal activity
should have
some level of responsibility traced back to the owner on record,
regardless if the owner on record was even remotely connected to the
crime committed.

Before Greg points out that it "wouldn't have prevented any mass
killings" so therefore it's not helpful,Â* I'd like to make the point
that perhaps with some criminal responsibility hanging on owner's
heads
they may be more careful in the control of who has access to their
firearms.Â* I am thinking of the kid in one of these shootings who
got
the firearm from his mother who technically owned it.

Since there was no problem establishing who owned the gun, again,
what
would registration accomplish?
It is just one more layer of bureaucracy and no doubt tax.
Laws requiring proper storage of the gun already exist, even in gun
friendly states like Florida but, since Lanza (Sandy Hook) shot his
mom when he took the gun, I doubt the law would have much punishment
available to use against her.



It's kinda fun watching you come up with every reason in the world
to do nothing.



Bull****. He's not advocating 'do nothing'. He's pointing out the
futility of passing more laws
which do nothing to stop the shootings but do create more government
jobs and paperwork.



Bull**** yourself.Â* It seems any attempt to even discuss possibilities
of how to address the killing that takes place using guns is countered
by "it wouldn't have stopped ...."

That has not been my point throughout this discussion.



All the discussion has been about laws to stop the killings.Â*Â* Murder is
outlawed, has not helped.Â*Â* The discussion should be on what would change
the culture of violence.Â*Â* You have popular games like Grand Theft Auto.
Really graphic.Â*Â* The movies since the spaghetti westerns have glorified
bloody killing in slow,motion.Â*Â* These changes are good?Â*Â* We have a
modern
Prohibition like alcohol, which created the Mobs.Â*Â* Now we have a drug
culture, that does drive by shootings to define territory, not
necessarily
to eliminate competition.Â*Â* Changing the registration laws would do jack
**** for reducing the violence.



"Changing our culture"Â* regarding guns has been the main point I have
been trying to make ... perhaps poorly.

Registering all firearms will not immediately reduce gun violence or
mass shootings but it is a step towards raising an "awareness" about
guns in our society overall.Â* Seems every time a bunch of innocent
people get killed it's all the news for a week or so and then it's back
to life as usual.

Combine that with your example of violent video games and a oh-hum
acceptance of blood and gore in the movies that is a component of the
"culture" we have now.Â* Isn't it time for us to start really thinking
about what is being accepted as "normal"?



The same video games and movies pretty much are played and watched in
democracies around the world. Why don't those societies have the sort of
mass shootings we do? Could it be the easy availability of guns and a
gun culture?


They seem to have people putting bombs in subways, Driving a car down the
sidewalk. China had a guy use a machete. Different tools.

Another ...
 

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/30/18 11:33 AM, True North wrote:
Keyser Soze

- show quoted text -

"I'd extend that responsibility to anyone who "gifts" a kid a firearm."


I agree wholeheartedly and unequivocally with this post.
I would add that ex military types, who should know better, get
double the punishment.



I heard that a very, very special place in hell is reserved for
hateful, racist pieces of **** like Herring. I don't believe in hell,
but, if it does exist, I am sure it would be chock full of
Herring-like guys. Justan, of course, would be stuck forever in
purgatory, not being smart enough to know the electronic door code for
hell is 666.

That was dumb. Carry on.

Another ...
 

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 19:12:44 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


There still is no minimum age requirement to purchase and own a long gun
however and no permits, proof of training or anything is required.

Seems nuts to me in this day and age. The way I read it a 7 year old
can buy a shotgun or a .22.

A buyer must be 18 to purchase a long gun in Maryland.

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-la...n/minimum-age/



That's a federal law. Note this sentence on another website by the
same Giffords Law Center that you just cited:

"However, there appears to be no minimum age to possess a rifle or
shotgun in the state."

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/minimum-age-to-purchase-possess-in-maryland/

The one I linked to was last updated in November of 2017. Perhaps
Maryland's laws have been further updated since.


"Possess" would imply simply having one with you, like when you are
hunting. That is why they are pretty soft on an age. Kids can hunt
with their parents at almost any age. Same with just plinking in the
woods or on a range. I know it may sound foreign to you but you see
little kids out west standing over an elk or antelope they just shot
in hunting magazines all the time.

Another ...
 

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/30/18 9:00 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/30/2018 8:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:38:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/30/2018 12:10 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 09:30:52 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/30/2018 7:44 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 17:19:51 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:28:47 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 6/29/18 12:09 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/29/2018 11:38 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/29/18 11:32 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:05:34 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 6/28/18 10:55 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 21:13:47 -0400, Keyser Soze

wrote:

On 6/28/18 8:50 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/28/2018 8:38 PM, Tim wrote:
Mr. Luddite

... shooting in Annapolis, MD ?
..........

This strict gun control laws are really paying off,
aren’t they?



Tim, it's more like this country has gone totally crazy
and out of
control.Â* No clues yet what this guy's motive was but it
won't
surprise me if he turns out to beÂ* a right wing nutcase.


Well, for what it is worth, the police have identified the
guy from
photo recognition software. It was reported he did
"something" to
obliterate his fingerprints. He's a white man, 39 years
old, named
Jarrod Warren Ramos, according to multiple law enforcement
sources, who
apparently lives in Laurel, Maryland.

Ramos has a connection to the paper. He filed a defamation
claim
in 2012
against the paper but the case was dismissed. He also has
a minor
conviction for "harassment" some years ago.



Tim thinks Maryland has "strict" gun laws. That's kind of
funny,
since
Maryland doesn't have "strict" gun laws.

They have most of the things people are clamoring for as
"sensible"
or "common sense" gun laws
* handgun license to buy one
* handgun de facto registration
*Assault Weapons ban
* high cap magazine ban
* universal background checks on all sales
* red flag law

Do they still have that stupid fired case law?


As I said, Maryland does not have strict gun laws.

There is no "handgun license." There is a "handgun
qualification
license."Â* Even an idiot like Alex could get one.

I'm not sure what "handgun de facto registration" means.

There is no "assault weapons ban." Most AR-15 type rifles
are banned if
they don't have heavy barrels, but you can buy an AR-10 off
the shelf,
and any number of different semi-auto rifles.

Only the sale of hi-cap mags are prohibited. Possession is
legal, as is
buying them across the state line and bringing them into
Maryland.

I have no idea what a "red flag" law is.

Your state is one of the ones the left uses for examples of
sensible
gun laws. BTE to enlighten you the red flag law mean they had
the
ability to take Ramos' shotgun based on his social media
rantings but
they didn't.

Thanks for pointing out the futility tho.


Ahh, so there's nothing that can be done. Let 'er rip!


I've come to the conclusion that there really is nothing that can
be done in terms of new gun laws mainly because of how many guns
already exist and the lack of records as to where they are or who
owns them. Yeah, mandatory background checks, etc., may help
but most
places already have them.

The only thing I can think of .... and this will cause
indigestion for
many here ... is a required registration of all guns
and strict enforcement of the required registration.Â* If for
some reason
you are found to be in possession of a firearm that is not
registered to
you as it's owner, it results in immediate confiscation of that
firearm.

The data base or registry identifies the owner and the owner is
held
responsible for it and it's use.Â* If stolen, sold or legally
transferred a report of that event or transfer would be
required within
48 hours.

Not dissimilar for titles for vehicles.

So to some ... go take an antacid.

It's the tiny bit of liberal DNA in me.







I'd certainly support complete registration of all firearms as a
decent
start. Used firearms must be registered, too. Along with the
registration, a mandatory background check of the purchaser. All
firearms, no exceptions.

That would not have changed any of the recent shootings at all.
They had no problem tracing this guy's shotgun back to the dealer
within hours. What would registration do?


I can't understand why you are so down on registration of firearms
and the attendant paperwork and
bureaucracy.

The purpose of all that is to help find the perpetrator when he
robs a 7/11, shoots someone, and
leaves his gun on the counter as he departs.

Now get off this negative attitude!



There's another aspect of mandatory gun registration that I'd like to
see implemented and enforced.Â* Similar to some of the
Admiralty/Maritime
laws, I think firearms used in any kind of criminal activity should
have
some level of responsibility traced back to the owner on record,
regardless if the owner on record was even remotely connected to the
crime committed.

Before Greg points out that it "wouldn't have prevented any mass
killings" so therefore it's not helpful,Â* I'd like to make the point
that perhaps with some criminal responsibility hanging on owner's
heads
they may be more careful in the control of who has access to their
firearms.Â* I am thinking of the kid in one of these shootings who got
the firearm from his mother who technically owned it.

Since there was no problem establishing who owned the gun, again, what
would registration accomplish?
It is just one more layer of bureaucracy and no doubt tax.
Laws requiring proper storage of the gun already exist, even in gun
friendly states like Florida but, since Lanza (Sandy Hook) shot his
mom when he took the gun, I doubt the law would have much punishment
available to use against her.



It's kinda fun watching you come up with every reason in the world
to do nothing.


At a certain point I think we have squeezed the gun issue about as
hard as we can. It is time to start trying to just stop the crazy
people who think it is OK to kill a bunch of innocent victims.
I have said many times, guns are for lazy people but it is far from
the only deadly thing out there. Some can be even more devastating.
There are plenty of industrial gasses that are totally unregulated and
have the ability to really do some damage.
How many people would recognize the smell of acetylene and know to run
like hell if they smelled it coming out of the vents in a building?



I guess this is what is called today as "having a conversation".

Nothing is really accomplished but points of view are identified.

Fretwell's point on industrial gases is...absurd.


What is absurd on the industrial gases? Columbine and at least one other
mass attack had rigged propane bombs, which luckily failed to explode.

Another ...
 

wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 18:26:19 -0400, John H.
wrote:
Well of course it's not true everywhere! I wouldn't give 'any kid' a
rifle, and I'm sure most
'responsible' adults feel the same way. But, back to what Greg said,
none of this extra paperwork
you propose would have stopped any of the shootings!

In my case the .22 was my grandfather's and he gave it to my dad with
the understanding I would get it when I got my first hunting license.
It was still in the house and if you think your kid does not have
unfettered access to anything in the house when you are not home, you
are just naive.
I just knew enough not to load and shoot it. I still knew how to take
it apart and clean it.
That was the cleanest, oiliest rifle you ever saw by the time I was
15. The stock was refinished and I had a sling on it.
Within a few months it became apparent in PG county, a shotgun was a
safer thing to hunt with because it is pretty hard to assure a mile of
free space. They got me a single shot Monkey Ward shotgun. I think
that may still be at my ex's house somewhere but she couldn't come up
with it the last time I was there. Her cousin may have it.




I did not “own� any firearms until after I was married. Dad had all I
needed. Just go over and borrow a couple.

Another ...
 

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 19:15:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/30/2018 6:16 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 15:44:54 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:36:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The laws governing the purchase of a shotgun in Florida are stricter
than those in Maryland.

I bought a shotgun in Florida back when we wintered down there after
we found a 4-5 foot rattlesnake coiled up at our front door one day.

Like Maryland, they did a quick telephone background check, rang me up
but I had to wait several days to pick it up and take it home.

Maryland lets you take it home the same day after the quick phone
background check.

===

Are you sure about that? I've never had to wait for anything other
than the background check and that only takes a few minutes, if that.
Filling out the form takes longer.

According to this, FL has a three day waiting period and some counties go up to five days:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_la...tates_by_state



This is why we need uniform gun laws rather than the patchwork system we
have now.


What may make perfect sense in a suburb of Boston sounds pretty stupid
to the people in Bad Rock Montana. That is why we have states and not
just one big city government running the whole country.

Another ...
 

True North wrote:
ohn H

- hide quoted text -

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 16:44:54 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

Mr. Luddite

- show quoted text -

"This is why we need uniform gun laws rather than the patchwork system we
have now"



Bingo!
Federal laws should regulate firearms and the laws exactly the same from Hillbilly Heaven, Virginia to Boston's finest neighbourhoods.
"You've no idea what the **** you're talking about."

Really?
We get more of your news on cable tv than we need or want.



Many cities with the toughest gun laws, like Chicago, have the most
gun-related crime. The problem is the people with the guns don't care
about the laws and use stolen guns for their crimes. The majority of
these cities have Democrats for mayors. Ask your friend about that.

Another ...
 

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 19:29:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/30/2018 6:50 PM, wrote:



No problem in states that allow "kids" to have rifles for hunting as
long as they are of the legal age for that state and the rifle is
registered to them. Of course the parents still have parental
responsibilities as to how and when it is used and stored.

I am not sure there is any state (except maybe Hawaii) that does not
allow 15 or 16 year old kids to hunt alone.
OTOH they still have to be 18 to own a gun so there is a flaw in the
logic.



Seems to me that there are plenty of flaws in our gun laws.

In your former Maryland, they have become very strict on handguns and
"assault" type long guns. Background checks, proof of training and
permits are required to own.

Yet, no permit, license, training certificate or background check is
required to buy a shotgun or other "unregulated" long gun.

What was it again that the guy used in Maryland the other day?


Not to beat the same old dead horse but if he had more training, might
he have actually killed more people?
How does that help?

Another ...
 

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 19:37:24 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Massachusetts allows "grandfathered" guns and transactions that took
place before (I think) 1996 or 1998.

Interesting, that would be every gun I own except the saturday night
special (Jennings 9) I got from a friend and that one has been around
the block so many times nobody knows who signed the 4473 for it. It
does appear I got the box of ammo that came with it, with 14 or 15
rounds missing, one magazine full. I shot 2 magazines worth and put it
away. It did go bang every time and at 7 yards put all the rounds in
the black.