Tick Tock
 

One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Tick Tock
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 09:32:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Tick Tock
 

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

Tick Tock
 

On 2/23/2018 10:09 AM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?



I don't know what the legalities are.

Tick Tock
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.

Tick Tock
 

On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

Tick Tock
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:15:24 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

Tick Tock
 

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)

Tick Tock
 

On 2/23/2018 3:53 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:15:24 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html




??

Tick Tock
 

On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

Tick Tock
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:00:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:53 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:15:24 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html




??

Hit the wrong button. Unlike one of our associates here, I'm not perfect.

Tick Tock
 

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 5:03:07 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

We're not communicating. :)
The fix will be done by the vendor selling the items that the banks won't honor. The vendor losing sales will change the credit card reporting so the banks won't be able to tell that the item is a firearm, and the sale will go through. Your new Ruger purchase will say "Misc pet supplies", or something similar.

Tick Tock
 

Mr. Luddite wrote:

One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA
sponsored Visa cards.


1) Wells Fargo will open an account for anyone and let them charge anything.
2) Criminals pay in cash.

Tick Tock
 

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem
to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card
companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's
hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at
the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify
the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural
King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve
transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying
$479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.


So, they are going to ban sales from Walmart? I check out at any store,
and the amount is verified. That is all that is verified.

Tick Tock
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:22:22 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)

That is only $100 more than a jug of Garlon. Throw in a jug of Roundup
Pro and you are over.

Tick Tock
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:03:00 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

The merchants and customers are going to be the ones who fix it.
Credit card companies court them, not the other way around. If Rural
King says I will only honor cards that accept gun sales, they won't
have any problem finding bankers who will go along. I am sure there
are banks who would love to get NRAs business.
I am just not sure how this would really work. If Chase says they will
not honor a gun purchase but BoA will, how does the merchant know?
What will Visa/ MC say about it? Who gets stuck when the charge is
denied and the customer has already left the store?
Like others have said, the merchant will just stop sending merchandise
details with the charge, assuming they do now.
I know when we had the store, everything was just "merchandise". Visa
and MC only got what we entered into the machine and that was what
came from the card swipe or manual entry and the amount. That is also
all I ever see on my CC receipt, along with the system generated
transaction number.
If I am making a claim against the credit card company, I need to
attach the actual sales receipt with that transaction number on it.

Tick Tock
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:58:37 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 5:03:07 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

We're not communicating. :)
The fix will be done by the vendor selling the items that the banks won't honor. The vendor losing sales will change the credit card reporting so the banks won't be able to tell that the item is a firearm, and the sale will go through. Your new Ruger purchase will say "Misc pet supplies", or something similar.

I don't see how the bank gets that information anyway. It is possible
to do if the CC reader is part of the POS terminal but since I do a
lot of business with small companies that use a stand alone machine, I
know they don't get anything but totals from that. It is just what the
guy types in plus the card swipe or chip read. I have to believe the
system on the other end is also getting the same transaction data from
a POS. Why would they maintain 2 systems? I guess I could call one of
my IBM buddies and ask, assuming any of them are still working.
Maybe Wayne knows.

Tick Tock
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:43:08 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:58:37 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 5:03:07 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

We're not communicating. :)
The fix will be done by the vendor selling the items that the banks won't honor. The vendor losing sales will change the credit card reporting so the banks won't be able to tell that the item is a firearm, and the sale will go through. Your new Ruger purchase will say "Misc pet supplies", or something similar.

I don't see how the bank gets that information anyway. It is possible
to do if the CC reader is part of the POS terminal but since I do a
lot of business with small companies that use a stand alone machine, I
know they don't get anything but totals from that. It is just what the
guy types in plus the card swipe or chip read. I have to believe the
system on the other end is also getting the same transaction data from
a POS. Why would they maintain 2 systems? I guess I could call one of
my IBM buddies and ask, assuming any of them are still working.
Maybe Wayne knows.


===

I am not an expert on retail systems but my understanding is that
credit card sales are an all or nothing proposition, meaning that
credit card companies can ban the merchant but not the product. The
legal marijuana industry is up against this - banks will just will not
do business with them so all sales are cash. The same thing could
happen to gun stores but not a mass merchandiser like Walmart.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

Tick Tock
 

On 2/24/2018 7:07 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:43:08 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:58:37 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 5:03:07 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

We're not communicating. :)
The fix will be done by the vendor selling the items that the banks won't honor. The vendor losing sales will change the credit card reporting so the banks won't be able to tell that the item is a firearm, and the sale will go through. Your new Ruger purchase will say "Misc pet supplies", or something similar.

I don't see how the bank gets that information anyway. It is possible
to do if the CC reader is part of the POS terminal but since I do a
lot of business with small companies that use a stand alone machine, I
know they don't get anything but totals from that. It is just what the
guy types in plus the card swipe or chip read. I have to believe the
system on the other end is also getting the same transaction data from
a POS. Why would they maintain 2 systems? I guess I could call one of
my IBM buddies and ask, assuming any of them are still working.
Maybe Wayne knows.


===

I am not an expert on retail systems but my understanding is that
credit card sales are an all or nothing proposition, meaning that
credit card companies can ban the merchant but not the product. The
legal marijuana industry is up against this - banks will just will not
do business with them so all sales are cash. The same thing could
happen to gun stores but not a mass merchandiser like Walmart.


It has been a while so I may not have this correct but I seem to
remember that when I had the guitar shop and set up an account to accept
credit cards, one of the available service options was a record of
specific item sales based on an inventory number or something. I didn't
opt for it and just went for the basic credit card service. It had to
do with tying sales to your inventory control system which I didn't have
or need.

I think a record of taxed and non-taxed items is recorded because it's
used as the basis for monthly state sales tax records and payments.

I liked and encouraged cash sales. :-)

Tick Tock
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:58:37 -0800 (PST), Its Me wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 5:03:07 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

We're not communicating. :)
The fix will be done by the vendor selling the items that the banks won't honor. The vendor losing sales will change the credit card reporting so the banks won't be able to tell that the item is a firearm, and the sale will go through. Your new Ruger purchase will say "Misc pet supplies", or something similar.

The VISA paper said "...won’t do business with retailers that sell assault weapons, high-capacity
magazines and bump stocks...".

The vendor would have to hide the fact that the items were part of the inventory, not hide the sale
of each item. By checking a vendor's web site a bank could easily see what the vendor carried. Or,
the bank could have someone go into the vendor's place of business.

Tick Tock
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:18 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem
to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card
companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's
hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at
the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify
the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural
King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve
transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying
$479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.


So, they are going to ban sales from Walmart? I check out at any store,
and the amount is verified. That is all that is verified.

Only if that particular Walmart sells 'military style' weapons.

Tick Tock
 

On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 7:35:10 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:58:37 -0800 (PST), Its Me wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 5:03:07 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina.. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

We're not communicating. :)
The fix will be done by the vendor selling the items that the banks won't honor. The vendor losing sales will change the credit card reporting so the banks won't be able to tell that the item is a firearm, and the sale will go through. Your new Ruger purchase will say "Misc pet supplies", or something similar.

The VISA paper said "...won’t do business with retailers that sell assault weapons, high-capacity
magazines and bump stocks...".

The vendor would have to hide the fact that the items were part of the inventory, not hide the sale
of each item. By checking a vendor's web site a bank could easily see what the vendor carried. Or,
the bank could have someone go into the vendor's place of business.

So that's discrimination. It's supposed to be illegal to discriminate based on your religious or moral beliefs. I suppose it's OK to discriminate based on your gun beliefs.

Tick Tock
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:36:45 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:03:00 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

The merchants and customers are going to be the ones who fix it.
Credit card companies court them, not the other way around. If Rural
King says I will only honor cards that accept gun sales, they won't
have any problem finding bankers who will go along. I am sure there
are banks who would love to get NRAs business.
I am just not sure how this would really work. If Chase says they will
not honor a gun purchase but BoA will, how does the merchant know?

The computer won't let the charge go through from that vendor.

What will Visa/ MC say about it? Who gets stuck when the charge is
denied and the customer has already left the store?

The charge is denied when the card is run through the machine.

Like others have said, the merchant will just stop sending merchandise
details with the charge, assuming they do now.

It's not the details of the charge, it's the vendor itself.

I know when we had the store, everything was just "merchandise". Visa
and MC only got what we entered into the machine and that was what
came from the card swipe or manual entry and the amount. That is also
all I ever see on my CC receipt, along with the system generated
transaction number.
If I am making a claim against the credit card company, I need to
attach the actual sales receipt with that transaction number on it.

You need to go read the article posted by Luddite.

Tick Tock
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:33:47 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 7:07 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:43:08 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:58:37 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 5:03:07 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased. And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

We're not communicating. :)
The fix will be done by the vendor selling the items that the banks won't honor. The vendor losing sales will change the credit card reporting so the banks won't be able to tell that the item is a firearm, and the sale will go through. Your new Ruger purchase will say "Misc pet supplies", or something similar.

I don't see how the bank gets that information anyway. It is possible
to do if the CC reader is part of the POS terminal but since I do a
lot of business with small companies that use a stand alone machine, I
know they don't get anything but totals from that. It is just what the
guy types in plus the card swipe or chip read. I have to believe the
system on the other end is also getting the same transaction data from
a POS. Why would they maintain 2 systems? I guess I could call one of
my IBM buddies and ask, assuming any of them are still working.
Maybe Wayne knows.


===

I am not an expert on retail systems but my understanding is that
credit card sales are an all or nothing proposition, meaning that
credit card companies can ban the merchant but not the product. The
legal marijuana industry is up against this - banks will just will not
do business with them so all sales are cash. The same thing could
happen to gun stores but not a mass merchandiser like Walmart.


It has been a while so I may not have this correct but I seem to
remember that when I had the guitar shop and set up an account to accept
credit cards, one of the available service options was a record of
specific item sales based on an inventory number or something. I didn't
opt for it and just went for the basic credit card service. It had to
do with tying sales to your inventory control system which I didn't have
or need.

I think a record of taxed and non-taxed items is recorded because it's
used as the basis for monthly state sales tax records and payments.

I liked and encouraged cash sales. :-)


The Florida department of revenue uses your sales figures and cross
checks against the wholesale items you purchase "tax free". They are
really counting on your accountant being honest and I assume they have
a hammer they use if he cheats.
We did a lot of cash business in and out so it was really just what we
wanted to report. (basically what went through the register)
In the flower business there is a lot of cash bouncing around,
particularly on the wholesale end so you problem is usually justifying
your expense number more than your revenue number.
I am guessing the IRS has tightened that up a bit with the enhanced
1099 reporting but I bet these people still have the "basket man" and
a few local growers who want cash and do not give you an invoice.

Tick Tock
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:35:09 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:58:37 -0800 (PST), Its Me wrote:


This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

We're not communicating. :)
The fix will be done by the vendor selling the items that the banks won't honor. The vendor losing sales will change the credit card reporting so the banks won't be able to tell that the item is a firearm, and the sale will go through. Your new Ruger purchase will say "Misc pet supplies", or something similar.

The VISA paper said "...won’t do business with retailers that sell assault weapons, high-capacity
magazines and bump stocks...".

The vendor would have to hide the fact that the items were part of the inventory, not hide the sale
of each item. By checking a vendor's web site a bank could easily see what the vendor carried. Or,
the bank could have someone go into the vendor's place of business.

I doubt Visa is in a hurry to blow off Walmart.
My guess is that if this really gets traction, there will be a
company, probably affiliated with NRA and the other shooting
organizations that spring up with their own card.
That 38% of the marketplace is certainly big enough to attract a bank.
Personally I think I would just pay cash or use a debit card if I was
buying another gun. I doubt that is going to happen tho.

Tick Tock
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:56:08 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:18 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:


So, they are going to ban sales from Walmart? I check out at any store,
and the amount is verified. That is all that is verified.

Only if that particular Walmart sells 'military style' weapons.

That would be all of them around here and when they are done with
this, any semi auto with a box magazine will be "military".
I know they are just talking about AR-15s but that is where the slope
gets slippery. It will certainly be everything on the 1994 banned list
and anything that remotely resembles that.
You only have to look at the laws in Md, Ca, NJ and Ma to see that.
Maryland may be the loosest, just because their law makers are "gun
dumb".

Tick Tock
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:01:12 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:36:45 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:03:00 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

The merchants and customers are going to be the ones who fix it.
Credit card companies court them, not the other way around. If Rural
King says I will only honor cards that accept gun sales, they won't
have any problem finding bankers who will go along. I am sure there
are banks who would love to get NRAs business.
I am just not sure how this would really work. If Chase says they will
not honor a gun purchase but BoA will, how does the merchant know?

The computer won't let the charge go through from that vendor.

What will Visa/ MC say about it? Who gets stuck when the charge is
denied and the customer has already left the store?

The charge is denied when the card is run through the machine.

Like others have said, the merchant will just stop sending merchandise
details with the charge, assuming they do now.

It's not the details of the charge, it's the vendor itself.

I know when we had the store, everything was just "merchandise". Visa
and MC only got what we entered into the machine and that was what
came from the card swipe or manual entry and the amount. That is also
all I ever see on my CC receipt, along with the system generated
transaction number.
If I am making a claim against the credit card company, I need to
attach the actual sales receipt with that transaction number on it.

You need to go read the article posted by Luddite.

So you are saying Visa will stop taking charges from Walmart, not
bloody likely.
If they do, expect Visa/MC to get some new competition.

Tick Tock
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible. I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude

Tick Tock
 

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:43:08 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:58:37 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 5:03:07 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 4:22 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 1:15:29 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:32:13 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
One of the reactions to the mass shootings last week comes from the
banking and financial institutions. Reports are circulating that many
are considering ending the ability to purchase firearms with credit
cards issued by them.

Looks like that movement has started. The National Bank of Omaha has
announced that they will not renew their contract to issue NRA sponsored
Visa cards.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how they could do that. It would
seem to be easy enough to code firearms in such a way that the
card companies wouldn't know exactly what was being purchased.
And it's hard to believe it would hold up in court.

What's next? Not allowing you to buy a big gulp and a chili dog
at the 7-11 with your card because they don't think it's good for you?

I agree. my receipts just say "merchandize", no matter what I buy.



That's not how it works. The store ID for the transaction is sent
electronically along with the sales data. Some have the merchandise
identified as well.

If a bank will not honor a sale from that store, the transaction will be
denied.

This article happens to be from the liberal NYTimes but similar articles
are available from other sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

One of my points is that the sales data sent doesn't have to identify
the merchandise, and even if it does it can be obscured. When Rural
King starts losing sales because credit card X won't approve
transactions, you can bet they'll fix that in a flash. You'll be
buying $479 worth of Purina. :)



This action is being considered by the banks that issue the credit
cards. There's no reason for them to "fix" it if they decide not to
honor firearms sales.

We're not communicating. :)
The fix will be done by the vendor selling the items that the banks
won't honor. The vendor losing sales will change the credit card
reporting so the banks won't be able to tell that the item is a
firearm, and the sale will go through. Your new Ruger purchase will
say "Misc pet supplies", or something similar.

I don't see how the bank gets that information anyway. It is possible
to do if the CC reader is part of the POS terminal but since I do a
lot of business with small companies that use a stand alone machine, I
know they don't get anything but totals from that. It is just what the
guy types in plus the card swipe or chip read. I have to believe the
system on the other end is also getting the same transaction data from
a POS. Why would they maintain 2 systems? I guess I could call one of
my IBM buddies and ask, assuming any of them are still working.
Maybe Wayne knows.


===

I am not an expert on retail systems but my understanding is that
credit card sales are an all or nothing proposition, meaning that
credit card companies can ban the merchant but not the product. The
legal marijuana industry is up against this - banks will just will not
do business with them so all sales are cash. The same thing could
happen to gun stores but not a mass merchandiser like Walmart.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



The federal government bans bank accounts for marijuana dealers. Is a big
problem for the state and the dealer. How do you pay your taxes? What
do you do with the gobs of cash? Guy I know says is Brother in law has a
pot dispensaries in Oregon. $100k a week. The paper is a big problem.

Tick Tock
 

On 2/24/2018 1:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible. I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude



I'll bet in 2 weeks we won't be discussing AR-15s here either. The
subject will die as usual in the media as well once all the funerals are
over.

Unless there's another mass shooting.

Tick Tock
 

On 2/24/18 1:34 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 1:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible.Â* I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude



I'll bet in 2 weeks we won't be discussing AR-15s here either. The
subject will die as usual in the media as well once all the funerals are
over.

Unless there's another mass shooting.

Unless? Unless?

Tick Tock
 

On 2/24/2018 1:52 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 1:34 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 1:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible.Â* I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude



I'll bet in 2 weeks we won't be discussing AR-15s here either. The
subject will die as usual in the media as well once all the funerals
are over.

Unless there's another mass shooting.

Unless?Â* Unless?

Yeah. I guess I should have said, "Until".

Tick Tock
 

Wrote in message:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible. I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude


Why don't we just ban everything the ATF people regulate and be
done with it. Of the three, I don't know which is
deadliest.
--
x


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Tick Tock
 

On 2/24/2018 2:25 PM, justan wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible. I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude


Why don't we just ban everything the ATF people regulate and be
done with it. Of the three, I don't know which is
deadliest.



Greg seems to think that all of our society problems are mutually
inclusive, meaning you can only fix 'em if you fix *all* of them at
once. It's ok to take one or two at a time.

Tick Tock
 

On 2/24/18 2:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 2:25 PM, justan wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible.Â* I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude


Why don't we just ban everything the ATF people regulate and be
Â* done with it. Of the three, I don't know which is
Â* deadliest.



Greg seems to think that all of our society problems are mutually
inclusive, meaning you can only fix 'em if you fix *all* of them at
once.Â* It's ok to take one or two at a time.



My take on Greg is that he has no interest in anything other than the
anti-rule, anti-regulation, anti-societal libertarian nonsense. That
means no regulatory efforts to fix anything. Don't like dirty air? Wear
a gas mask. Dirty water? Filter it. Too many high-powered guns in the
wrong hands? Wear body armor.

Tick Tock
 

On 2/24/2018 2:50 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 2:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 2:25 PM, justan wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible.Â* I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude


Why don't we just ban everything the ATF people regulate and be
Â* done with it. Of the three, I don't know which is
Â* deadliest.



Greg seems to think that all of our society problems are mutually
inclusive, meaning you can only fix 'em if you fix *all* of them at
once.Â* It's ok to take one or two at a time.



My take on Greg is that he has no interest in anything other than the
anti-rule, anti-regulation, anti-societal libertarian nonsense. That
means no regulatory efforts to fix anything. Don't like dirty air? Wear
a gas mask. Dirty water? Filter it. Too many high-powered guns in the
wrong hands? Wear body armor.


I like Greg and have respect for his accomplishments, knowledge and
technical expertise. But I don't think I've ever come across anyone
who can come up with as many reasons why you *can't* do something as he
can. It makes me chuckle sometimes.

It's a little surprising because usually those with a technical or
engineering bent are just the opposite. Tell an engineer he can't do
something and he'll spend a lifetime trying to prove you wrong.

Tick Tock
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 13:34:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 1:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible. I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude



I'll bet in 2 weeks we won't be discussing AR-15s here either. The
subject will die as usual in the media as well once all the funerals are
over.

Unless there's another mass shooting.

Or unless the next guy uses a seiga

Tick Tock
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 14:39:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 2:25 PM, justan wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible. I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude


Why don't we just ban everything the ATF people regulate and be
done with it. Of the three, I don't know which is
deadliest.



Greg seems to think that all of our society problems are mutually
inclusive, meaning you can only fix 'em if you fix *all* of them at
once. It's ok to take one or two at a time.


Certainly true but why start with the one that causes a few hundred
deaths and ignore the ones that cause tens of thousands or even
millions?
Oh I forgot, they aren't news and the fix would be inconvenient for a
lot of people.

Tick Tock
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 14:50:08 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/24/18 2:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 2:25 PM, justan wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible.Â* I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude


Why don't we just ban everything the ATF people regulate and be
Â* done with it. Of the three, I don't know which is
Â* deadliest.



Greg seems to think that all of our society problems are mutually
inclusive, meaning you can only fix 'em if you fix *all* of them at
once.Â* It's ok to take one or two at a time.



My take on Greg is that he has no interest in anything other than the
anti-rule, anti-regulation, anti-societal libertarian nonsense. That
means no regulatory efforts to fix anything. Don't like dirty air? Wear
a gas mask. Dirty water? Filter it. Too many high-powered guns in the
wrong hands? Wear body armor.

I am sure I am doing more about water quality than anyone else here

Tick Tock
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 14:58:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 2:50 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 2:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 2:25 PM, justan wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:36:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I'll betcha it's not so much a case of being anti-gun as it is legal
beagles recognizing that litigation could extend not only to the
shooter, the store that sold him the firearm (already happens) and to
the financing agency that made the purchase possible.Â* I'll bet more
credit card issuers will start prohibiting the use of their cards for
firearm purchases in the future.

There is legislation in place that shields sellers and manufacturers.
The left really wants to change that but not with much success so far.
This credit card thing is just kubuki theater. Like you say, once the
water calms down I bet it goes away, particularly if a number of big
chains decide to tell them to **** off.
Like someone said before, where does this stop? Are they going to stop
processing charges for dangerous food next? Far more people die from
obesity related disease than from guns, by a couple orders of
magnitude


Why don't we just ban everything the ATF people regulate and be
Â* done with it. Of the three, I don't know which is
Â* deadliest.



Greg seems to think that all of our society problems are mutually
inclusive, meaning you can only fix 'em if you fix *all* of them at
once.Â* It's ok to take one or two at a time.



My take on Greg is that he has no interest in anything other than the
anti-rule, anti-regulation, anti-societal libertarian nonsense. That
means no regulatory efforts to fix anything. Don't like dirty air? Wear
a gas mask. Dirty water? Filter it. Too many high-powered guns in the
wrong hands? Wear body armor.


I like Greg and have respect for his accomplishments, knowledge and
technical expertise. But I don't think I've ever come across anyone
who can come up with as many reasons why you *can't* do something as he
can. It makes me chuckle sometimes.

It's a little surprising because usually those with a technical or
engineering bent are just the opposite. Tell an engineer he can't do
something and he'll spend a lifetime trying to prove you wrong.

I lived my life on the other end of that product cycle and I see what
engineers can't do.
If they weren't wrong so often I would not have had a job.
I didn't lose my job because they got any better. It was just because
we simply throw away their mistakes and buy a new one instead of
trying to fix it.