Lapierre
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 10:27:09 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:


11:34 AMKeyser Soze
- show quoted text -
Ahh, shootouts coming in Ohio public schools of the kind no one wants.
Wonderful.
.....

It’s already a one way gun fight, Harry. It might be a bit better than throwing books and staple guns back at the perp.
Actually if they had one of these under every desk a shooter might
look for a softer target. Imagine 160 of these babies from 40 kids
coming at your head in 10-20 seconds.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Active%20sh...onse%20kit.jpg
It would be like the "stoning scene" in the life of brian.

Lapierre
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:42:00 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:15:49 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 10:46 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 10:19 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/22/18 10:09 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Watching and listening to Wayne Lapierre speak at the CPAC.

Guy is really screwed up, IMO.

He's a perfect candidate to be "Baker-acted."** :)

Love his idea (well, not his idea) of hardening schools to keep out
the gun nuts. Schools don't have enough $$$ to supply kids with
pencils and paper.


I can certainly understand why opinions on gun control issues are so
divided and so earnestly defended.

Isn't somewhere in the middle a common sense and appropriate for the
times position to take?



While we are "hardening schools," we'll have to harden shopping centers,
churches, outdoor concert venues, parking lots, et cetera. The idea of
having a policeman or armed teaching guarding an entire school is
laughable. Most schools are pretty large, multi-floor buildings.

I tend to agree but in Florida there is usually only one unlocked door
from the outside, the one in the lobby. Either someone blocked another
door open or this guy came in with the other students, carrying a
rifle. Either are possible I suppose.
I do agree that we need to control the nuts. Eliminating soft targets
is pretty much impossible and eliminating potential weapons will just
be a whack a mole game, simply trying to prevent the last attack, not
the next one.

Or someone could have opened a side door for him at a pre-selected time.

Lapierre
 

wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 10:27:09 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:


11:34 AMKeyser Soze
- show quoted text -
Ahh, shootouts coming in Ohio public schools of the kind no one wants.
Wonderful.
.....

It’s already a one way gun fight, Harry. It might be a bit better than
throwing books and staple guns back at the perp.
Actually if they had one of these under every desk a shooter might
look for a softer target. Imagine 160 of these babies from 40 kids
coming at your head in 10-20 seconds.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Active%20sh...onse%20kit.jpg
It would be like the "stoning scene" in the life of brian.


Maybe if the kids and teachers were armed like Harry’s picture, Boko Haram
and school shooters would have a hard, short life.

Lapierre
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:58:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/2/2018 12:34 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/22/18 12:15 PM, Tim wrote:
Keyser Soze
- show quoted text -
While we are "hardening schools," we'll have to harden shopping centers,
churches, outdoor concert venues, parking lots, et cetera. The idea of
having a policeman or armed teaching guarding an entire school is
laughable. Most schools are pretty large, multi-floor buildings.
...

Really?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...iff/index.html




Ahh, shootouts coming in Ohio public schools of the kind no one wants.
Wonderful.


Watching the second day of meetings with Trump today. He's coming down
hard on the side of arming certain qualified teachers, janitors,
ex-military etc. to create an "offensive" defense. He praises the NRA
although he has differences with what Wayne LaPierre advocated today.
It is obvious he is hell bent for election (pun not intended) to do
something about school mass shootings.



Good. Let him do something. I don't recall a case of a teacher shooting a bunch of kids (not that
they wouldn't want to every now and then), so let those qualified be armed - secretly, of course.

Lapierre
 

On 2/22/2018 4:47 PM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:58:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/2/2018 12:34 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/22/18 12:15 PM, Tim wrote:
Keyser Soze
- show quoted text -
While we are "hardening schools," we'll have to harden shopping centers,
churches, outdoor concert venues, parking lots, et cetera. The idea of
having a policeman or armed teaching guarding an entire school is
laughable. Most schools are pretty large, multi-floor buildings.
...

Really?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...iff/index.html




Ahh, shootouts coming in Ohio public schools of the kind no one wants.
Wonderful.


Watching the second day of meetings with Trump today. He's coming down
hard on the side of arming certain qualified teachers, janitors,
ex-military etc. to create an "offensive" defense. He praises the NRA
although he has differences with what Wayne LaPierre advocated today.
It is obvious he is hell bent for election (pun not intended) to do
something about school mass shootings.



Good. Let him do something. I don't recall a case of a teacher shooting a bunch of kids (not that
they wouldn't want to every now and then), so let those qualified be armed - secretly, of course.



Given the lack of any other serious options, I have no problem with his
proposal. At least something would be tried.

Lapierre
 

On 2/22/18 5:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 4:47 PM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:58:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/2/2018 12:34 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/22/18 12:15 PM, Tim wrote:
Keyser Soze
- show quoted text -
While we are "hardening schools," we'll have to harden shopping
centers,
churches, outdoor concert venues, parking lots, et cetera. The idea of
having a policeman or armed teaching guarding an entire school is
laughable. Most schools are pretty large, multi-floor buildings.
...

Really?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...iff/index.html





Ahh, shootouts coming in Ohio public schools of the kind no one wants.
Wonderful.


Watching the second day of meetings with Trump today.Â* He's coming down
hard on the side of arming certain qualified teachers, janitors,
ex-military etc. to create an "offensive"Â* defense.Â*Â* He praises the NRA
although he has differences with what Wayne LaPierre advocated today.
It is obvious he is hell bent for election (pun not intended) to do
something about school mass shootings.



Good. Let him do something. I don't recall a case of a teacher
shooting a bunch of kids (not that
they wouldn't want to every now and then), so let those qualified be
armed - secretly, of course.



Given the lack of any other serious options, I have no problem with his
proposal.Â* At least something would be tried.





Yes, the NRA would love to see more firearms sold, more ammo sold, more
firearms in the hands of more people (teachers) and, hell, if a school
is still shot up, well, there weren't enough armed teachers at that
school, eh? The NRA is not offering a "serious" option.

Lapierre
 

On 2/22/2018 5:58 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/22/18 5:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 4:47 PM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:58:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/2/2018 12:34 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/22/18 12:15 PM, Tim wrote:
Keyser Soze
- show quoted text -
While we are "hardening schools," we'll have to harden shopping
centers,
churches, outdoor concert venues, parking lots, et cetera. The
idea of
having a policeman or armed teaching guarding an entire school is
laughable. Most schools are pretty large, multi-floor buildings.
...

Really?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...iff/index.html





Ahh, shootouts coming in Ohio public schools of the kind no one wants.
Wonderful.


Watching the second day of meetings with Trump today.Â* He's coming down
hard on the side of arming certain qualified teachers, janitors,
ex-military etc. to create an "offensive"Â* defense.Â*Â* He praises the
NRA
although he has differences with what Wayne LaPierre advocated today.
It is obvious he is hell bent for election (pun not intended) to do
something about school mass shootings.



Good. Let him do something. I don't recall a case of a teacher
shooting a bunch of kids (not that
they wouldn't want to every now and then), so let those qualified be
armed - secretly, of course.



Given the lack of any other serious options, I have no problem with
his proposal.Â* At least something would be tried.





Yes, the NRA would love to see more firearms sold, more ammo sold, more
firearms in the hands of more people (teachers) and, hell, if a school
is still shot up, well, there weren't enough armed teachers at that
school, eh? The NRA is not offering a "serious" option.


No serious options are being offered. Even you acknowledged that the
mental health and reporting avenue is too "complex" to address in a
reasonable period of time. Gun lovers won't stand for any kind of
restrictions of their rights. Politicians (even those of your party)
won't touch the subject with a ten foot pole. Lots of talk, then it
dies down until the next mass shooting.

Given the lack of viable, timely and effective options, the best I've
heard so far is reducing the response time from 5 to 10 minutes to less
than a minute. If that means training and arming volunteer teachers and
school administrators, it's better than nothing. Nobody should be
forced or required to be armed. Perhaps volunteer ex-law enforcement or
qualified and well screened ex-military could add to the protection on a
part-time, rotating basis.

There are risks of course. The arriving police may mistake an armed
teacher as a "bad" guy. Maybe some form of easily and quickly identity
confirmation could be conceived.

Not ideal, but better than nothing for now.

Lapierre
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:45:48 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:42:00 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:15:49 -0500, Keyser Soze

While we are "hardening schools," we'll have to harden shopping centers,
churches, outdoor concert venues, parking lots, et cetera. The idea of
having a policeman or armed teaching guarding an entire school is
laughable. Most schools are pretty large, multi-floor buildings.

I tend to agree but in Florida there is usually only one unlocked door
from the outside, the one in the lobby. Either someone blocked another
door open or this guy came in with the other students, carrying a
rifle. Either are possible I suppose.
I do agree that we need to control the nuts. Eliminating soft targets
is pretty much impossible and eliminating potential weapons will just
be a whack a mole game, simply trying to prevent the last attack, not
the next one.

Or someone could have opened a side door for him at a pre-selected time.

That person should be charged with murder too if that is what
happened. There is video in these schools so we should know that by
now.
That is really the easiest way to "harden" the schools anyway. Just
increase the number of cameras and be able to isolate a shooter with
doors that can be closed and locked remotely. That along with
notification systems would do more than armed guards. If they can
monitor the shooter from a central location and send the video to the
cops along with exactly where the guy is, taking him will be a lot
easier. If the teachers know immediately to lock the classroom door
and get everyone behind the safe line (an area that can't be seen from
the hall), they can just hunker down and wait.

Lapierre
 

On 2/22/18 2:42 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:15:49 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 10:46 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 10:19 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/22/18 10:09 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Watching and listening to Wayne Lapierre speak at the CPAC.

Guy is really screwed up, IMO.

He's a perfect candidate to be "Baker-acted."Â*Â* :)

Love his idea (well, not his idea) of hardening schools to keep out
the gun nuts. Schools don't have enough $$$ to supply kids with
pencils and paper.


I can certainly understand why opinions on gun control issues are so
divided and so earnestly defended.

Isn't somewhere in the middle a common sense and appropriate for the
times position to take?



While we are "hardening schools," we'll have to harden shopping centers,
churches, outdoor concert venues, parking lots, et cetera. The idea of
having a policeman or armed teaching guarding an entire school is
laughable. Most schools are pretty large, multi-floor buildings.

I tend to agree but in Florida there is usually only one unlocked door
from the outside, the one in the lobby. Either someone blocked another
door open or this guy came in with the other students, carrying a
rifle. Either are possible I suppose.
I do agree that we need to control the nuts. Eliminating soft targets
is pretty much impossible and eliminating potential weapons will just
be a whack a mole game, simply trying to prevent the last attack, not
the next one.



The Florida school was spread out over more than one building and
apparently there was legitimate student and teacher traffic between the
buildings during the day, so locked door access might have been an issue.

The high school I went to had many exit doors, but only one entrance
door. A side door led to the track and field area, but once the kids got
out there, the only way back in through that door was with the help of a
key one of the teachers or coaches had on his/her person.

All the kids gathered in front of the school in the morning until the
opening bell rang. Then, the front doors opened and a crew of assistant
principals/teachers looked everyone over as the students stormed in. I
suppose a kid could have sneaked in with a revolver, but to the best of
my knowledge, it didn't happen back then.

My dad had a few guns. The pistols were kept in a safe at his store, and
the shotgun was kept locked up at the outdoor sports club where he shot
clays. I didn't even know about one of the handguns until after he died
and I opened the safe. I gave them to one of his long-time buddies, and
I donated the shotgun to the club.

Lapierre
 

On 2/23/2018 7:53 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/22/18 2:42 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:15:49 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/22/18 10:46 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 10:19 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/22/18 10:09 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Watching and listening to Wayne Lapierre speak at the CPAC.

Guy is really screwed up, IMO.

He's a perfect candidate to be "Baker-acted."Â*Â* :)

Love his idea (well, not his idea) of hardening schools to keep out
the gun nuts. Schools don't have enough $$$ to supply kids with
pencils and paper.


I can certainly understand why opinions on gun control issues are so
divided and so earnestly defended.

Isn't somewhere in the middle a common sense and appropriate for the
times position to take?



While we are "hardening schools," we'll have to harden shopping centers,
churches, outdoor concert venues, parking lots, et cetera. The idea of
having a policeman or armed teaching guarding an entire school is
laughable. Most schools are pretty large, multi-floor buildings.

I tend to agree but in Florida there is usually only one unlocked door
from the outside, the one in the lobby. Either someone blocked another
door open or this guy came in with the other students, carrying a
rifle. Either are possible I suppose.
I do agree that we need to control the nuts. Eliminating soft targets
is pretty much impossible and eliminating potential weapons will just
be a whack a mole game, simply trying to prevent the last attack, not
the next one.



The Florida school was spread out over more than one building and
apparently there was legitimate student and teacher traffic between the
buildings during the day, so locked door access might have been an issue.

The high school I went to had many exit doors, but only one entrance
door. A side door led to the track and field area, but once the kids got
out there, the only way back in through that door was with the help of a
key one of the teachers or coaches had on his/her person.

All the kids gathered in front of the school in the morning until the
opening bell rang. Then, the front doors opened and a crew of assistant
principals/teachers looked everyone over as the students stormed in. I
suppose a kid could have sneaked in with a revolver, but to the best of
my knowledge, it didn't happen back then.

My dad had a few guns. The pistols were kept in a safe at his store, and
the shotgun was kept locked up at the outdoor sports club where he shot
clays. I didn't even know about one of the handguns until after he died
and I opened the safe. I gave them to one of his long-time buddies, and
I donated the shotgun to the club.


The high school I attended in CT (Amity) had locked doors except the
main ones visible from the main office area. All the other doors and
ground floor windows were locked but it was to keep students *in* not to
keep outsiders from entering. I used to skip the last period study hall
all the time to go to work at the garage I worked at after school. I
didn't try to escape from windows or locked doors. I just walked past
the main office with my books under my arm, waved at the office people
and walked out the door. It's amazing what you can do if you act like
you are supposed to be doing what you are doing. No one ever challenged me.