On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 23:02:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


I wonder how many service members are discharged before turning 21
anyway, but I understand your point. Military service matures most.


Very few, I'd reckon.


Kiddy cruise. Join the navy reserves while in high school. When you
graduated, went to basic and 2 years duty. Then discharged. At least
when I was in high school.

That was pretty much everyone who was drafted when that was a thing
and the 4 years after your 2 "in" was inactive reserve.
Unfortunately they "extended" a lot of those guys in the late 60s,
exploiting that inactive reserve clause. The guys in the grass were
usually 2 and out if they didn't re up but there were a lot of support
USAF and maybe even navy guys with critical skills who had to do the
whole 6 year nut.
I was in a 1 year reserve program that got extended by a month (13
months active duty), putting me pretty much in the same VA category as
a 2 year guy. I never used any of it.

wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 23:02:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


I wonder how many service members are discharged before turning 21
anyway, but I understand your point. Military service matures most.


Very few, I'd reckon.


Kiddy cruise. Join the navy reserves while in high school. When you
graduated, went to basic and 2 years duty. Then discharged. At least
when I was in high school.

That was pretty much everyone who was drafted when that was a thing
and the 4 years after your 2 "in" was inactive reserve.
Unfortunately they "extended" a lot of those guys in the late 60s,
exploiting that inactive reserve clause. The guys in the grass were
usually 2 and out if they didn't re up but there were a lot of support
USAF and maybe even navy guys with critical skills who had to do the
whole 6 year nut.
I was in a 1 year reserve program that got extended by a month (13
months active duty), putting me pretty much in the same VA category as
a 2 year guy. I never used any of it.


I transferred out of my reserve unit 5 days before the general volunteered
the wing for active duty with the Pueblo crisis. He got another star and
all the rest of the unit pretty much got screwed.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 05:24:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 23:02:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


I wonder how many service members are discharged before turning 21
anyway, but I understand your point. Military service matures most.


Very few, I'd reckon.


Kiddy cruise. Join the navy reserves while in high school. When you
graduated, went to basic and 2 years duty. Then discharged. At least
when I was in high school.

That was pretty much everyone who was drafted when that was a thing
and the 4 years after your 2 "in" was inactive reserve.
Unfortunately they "extended" a lot of those guys in the late 60s,
exploiting that inactive reserve clause. The guys in the grass were
usually 2 and out if they didn't re up but there were a lot of support
USAF and maybe even navy guys with critical skills who had to do the
whole 6 year nut.
I was in a 1 year reserve program that got extended by a month (13
months active duty), putting me pretty much in the same VA category as
a 2 year guy. I never used any of it.


I transferred out of my reserve unit 5 days before the general volunteered
the wing for active duty with the Pueblo crisis. He got another star and
all the rest of the unit pretty much got screwed.

We had a Lt Cmdr who resigned his commission in the USCGR because he
had decided the Coast Guard was going to call up a unit and the unit
they were most likely to call was the ORTAUG ("ship augmentation" deck
apes) in Washington DC.
In the end he screwed up. They never called up any units
It was really silly anyway. The only CG units in Vietnam were river
patrol boats and pretty much all of the reserves were there to provide
manpower on Navy vessels. There was no shortage of those Navy guys and
they would probably have wanted the guys in the ORTEL anyway
(Electronic rates).
They had more volunteers for the river boats than slots so that was
not going to be a thing.

On 2/26/18 1:26 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 05:24:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 23:02:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


I wonder how many service members are discharged before turning 21
anyway, but I understand your point. Military service matures most.


Very few, I'd reckon.


Kiddy cruise. Join the navy reserves while in high school. When you
graduated, went to basic and 2 years duty. Then discharged. At least
when I was in high school.

That was pretty much everyone who was drafted when that was a thing
and the 4 years after your 2 "in" was inactive reserve.
Unfortunately they "extended" a lot of those guys in the late 60s,
exploiting that inactive reserve clause. The guys in the grass were
usually 2 and out if they didn't re up but there were a lot of support
USAF and maybe even navy guys with critical skills who had to do the
whole 6 year nut.
I was in a 1 year reserve program that got extended by a month (13
months active duty), putting me pretty much in the same VA category as
a 2 year guy. I never used any of it.


I transferred out of my reserve unit 5 days before the general volunteered
the wing for active duty with the Pueblo crisis. He got another star and
all the rest of the unit pretty much got screwed.

We had a Lt Cmdr who resigned his commission in the USCGR because he
had decided the Coast Guard was going to call up a unit and the unit
they were most likely to call was the ORTAUG ("ship augmentation" deck
apes) in Washington DC.
In the end he screwed up. They never called up any units
It was really silly anyway. The only CG units in Vietnam were river
patrol boats and pretty much all of the reserves were there to provide
manpower on Navy vessels. There was no shortage of those Navy guys and
they would probably have wanted the guys in the ORTEL anyway
(Electronic rates).
They had more volunteers for the river boats than slots so that was
not going to be a thing.



Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that the only rec.boats
poster here who might have been shot at by elements of the various North
Vietnamese ground forces was Herring, and, in his case, deservedly so.

The rest of you fellas didn't see that sort of combat, correct? That
includes you, Luddite, Bilious Bill, FlaJim, W'hine, et cetera.

On 2/26/2018 6:44 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/26/18 1:26 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 05:24:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 23:02:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


I wonder how many service members are discharged before turning 21
anyway, but I understand your point.Â* Military service matures most.


Very few, I'd reckon.


Kiddy cruise.Â*Â* Join the navy reserves while in high school.Â*Â* When
you
graduated, went to basic and 2 years duty.Â*Â* Then discharged.Â* At
least
when I was in high school.

That was pretty much everyone who was drafted when that was a thing
and the 4 years after your 2 "in" was inactive reserve.
Unfortunately they "extended" a lot of those guys in the late 60s,
exploiting that inactive reserve clause. The guys in the grass were
usually 2 and out if they didn't re up but there were a lot of support
USAF and maybe even navy guys with critical skills who had to do the
whole 6 year nut.
I was in a 1 year reserve program that got extended by a month (13
months active duty), putting me pretty much in the same VA category as
a 2 year guy. I never used any of it.


I transferred out of my reserve unit 5 days before the general
volunteered
the wing for active duty with the Pueblo crisis.Â*Â* He got another
star and
all the rest of the unit pretty much got screwed.

We had a Lt Cmdr who resigned his commission in the USCGR because he
had decided the Coast Guard was going to call up a unit and the unit
they were most likely to call was the ORTAUG ("ship augmentation" deck
apes) in Washington DC.
In the end he screwed up. They never called up any units
It was really silly anyway. The only CG units in Vietnam were river
patrol boats and pretty much all of the reserves were there to provide
manpower on Navy vessels. There was no shortage of those Navy guys and
they would probably have wanted the guys in the ORTEL anyway
(Electronic rates).
They had more volunteers for the river boats than slots so that was
not going to be a thing.



Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that the only rec.boats
poster here who might have been shot at by elements of the various North
Vietnamese ground forces was Herring, and, in his case, deservedly so.

The rest of you fellas didn't see that sort of combat, correct? That
includes you, Luddite, Bilious Bill, FlaJim, W'hine, et cetera.


Actually, my feeling is that it's none of your business but:

For me only a short, six week experience in coastal areas off Vietnam
early in my Navy adventure. Left due to an injury that although minor
(and not fully documented as to how), still required medical attention
not readily available and was eventually transferred back to the states.

No Harry. It was not "self inflicted". :-)

Certainly not a "combat vet" nor do I consider myself a Vietnam Vet even
though my service records document Vietnam service. Compared to others I
never felt I was there long enough nor did I experience what others
(like my Hospital Corpsman buddy) experienced. He disagrees but I have
too much respect for those who had to spend full tours there.

I never wanted to be thought of as another John Kerry so to me it was
no big deal.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 06:44:09 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 2/26/18 1:26 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 05:24:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 23:02:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


I wonder how many service members are discharged before turning 21
anyway, but I understand your point. Military service matures most.


Very few, I'd reckon.


Kiddy cruise. Join the navy reserves while in high school. When you
graduated, went to basic and 2 years duty. Then discharged. At least
when I was in high school.

That was pretty much everyone who was drafted when that was a thing
and the 4 years after your 2 "in" was inactive reserve.
Unfortunately they "extended" a lot of those guys in the late 60s,
exploiting that inactive reserve clause. The guys in the grass were
usually 2 and out if they didn't re up but there were a lot of support
USAF and maybe even navy guys with critical skills who had to do the
whole 6 year nut.
I was in a 1 year reserve program that got extended by a month (13
months active duty), putting me pretty much in the same VA category as
a 2 year guy. I never used any of it.


I transferred out of my reserve unit 5 days before the general volunteered
the wing for active duty with the Pueblo crisis. He got another star and
all the rest of the unit pretty much got screwed.

We had a Lt Cmdr who resigned his commission in the USCGR because he
had decided the Coast Guard was going to call up a unit and the unit
they were most likely to call was the ORTAUG ("ship augmentation" deck
apes) in Washington DC.
In the end he screwed up. They never called up any units
It was really silly anyway. The only CG units in Vietnam were river
patrol boats and pretty much all of the reserves were there to provide
manpower on Navy vessels. There was no shortage of those Navy guys and
they would probably have wanted the guys in the ORTEL anyway
(Electronic rates).
They had more volunteers for the river boats than slots so that was
not going to be a thing.



Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that the only rec.boats
poster here who might have been shot at by elements of the various North
Vietnamese ground forces was Herring, and, in his case, deservedly so.

The rest of you fellas didn't see that sort of combat, correct? That
includes you, Luddite, Bilious Bill, FlaJim, W'hine, et cetera.

And what the **** does your comment have to do with the discussion?

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 06:44:09 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/26/18 1:26 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 05:24:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 23:02:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


I wonder how many service members are discharged before turning 21
anyway, but I understand your point. Military service matures most.


Very few, I'd reckon.


Kiddy cruise. Join the navy reserves while in high school. When you
graduated, went to basic and 2 years duty. Then discharged. At least
when I was in high school.

That was pretty much everyone who was drafted when that was a thing
and the 4 years after your 2 "in" was inactive reserve.
Unfortunately they "extended" a lot of those guys in the late 60s,
exploiting that inactive reserve clause. The guys in the grass were
usually 2 and out if they didn't re up but there were a lot of support
USAF and maybe even navy guys with critical skills who had to do the
whole 6 year nut.
I was in a 1 year reserve program that got extended by a month (13
months active duty), putting me pretty much in the same VA category as
a 2 year guy. I never used any of it.


I transferred out of my reserve unit 5 days before the general volunteered
the wing for active duty with the Pueblo crisis. He got another star and
all the rest of the unit pretty much got screwed.

We had a Lt Cmdr who resigned his commission in the USCGR because he
had decided the Coast Guard was going to call up a unit and the unit
they were most likely to call was the ORTAUG ("ship augmentation" deck
apes) in Washington DC.
In the end he screwed up. They never called up any units
It was really silly anyway. The only CG units in Vietnam were river
patrol boats and pretty much all of the reserves were there to provide
manpower on Navy vessels. There was no shortage of those Navy guys and
they would probably have wanted the guys in the ORTEL anyway
(Electronic rates).
They had more volunteers for the river boats than slots so that was
not going to be a thing.



Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that the only rec.boats
poster here who might have been shot at by elements of the various North
Vietnamese ground forces was Herring, and, in his case, deservedly so.

The rest of you fellas didn't see that sort of combat, correct? That
includes you, Luddite, Bilious Bill, FlaJim, W'hine, et cetera.

The reality is the vast majority of people in the military 65-74, were
not in the grass, just as the majority of Korea or even WWII veterans
were not actually in combat. What's your point?

On 2/25/2018 9:44 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 23:02:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


I wonder how many service members are discharged before turning 21
anyway, but I understand your point. Military service matures most.


Very few, I'd reckon.


Kiddy cruise. Join the navy reserves while in high school. When you
graduated, went to basic and 2 years duty. Then discharged. At least
when I was in high school.

That was pretty much everyone who was drafted when that was a thing
and the 4 years after your 2 "in" was inactive reserve.
Unfortunately they "extended" a lot of those guys in the late 60s,
exploiting that inactive reserve clause. The guys in the grass were
usually 2 and out if they didn't re up but there were a lot of support
USAF and maybe even navy guys with critical skills who had to do the
whole 6 year nut.
I was in a 1 year reserve program that got extended by a month (13
months active duty), putting me pretty much in the same VA category as
a 2 year guy. I never used any of it.



I did just short of 9 years active and was supposed to be discharged in
April. Started my short-timer's calendar and also sending out resumes
for jobs. Then, a few weeks before D-day, I was informed that my
enlistment had been extended for an additional 2 months. I went a
little bonkers because my understanding had been that after 8 years of
active duty, your required eligibility for military service was
complete. Anyway, I lost the argument but the CO of the command (this
was in Annapolis, MD) who was also a short-timer told me I could go home
for the last few weeks and just call in every morning for muster. I was
processed for discharge and my discharge papers would be mailed to me.
He also said he'd try to find out what the extension was all about
because it wasn't like I held a critical billet at the command and they
didn't need my replacement. The Navy was beginning to decommission the
command and were already mothballing equipment.

The CO found out that (unknown to me) I had been selected to attend a 5
week prep school called "Officer Development School (ODS)" which would
then lead to a direct commission to Warrant as an LDO (limited duty
officer). LDO's are not flag officers and can never be a CO of a ship
or anything. They usually serve in at commands that require their
educational and technical specialties.

Anyway, I didn't opt for it. The extension was to allow time for the
orders and the school schedule. Only problem was they neglected to tell
me about it in the paperwork shuffle. My only guess is that the Navy
had invested a lot of schools in me during my enlistment plus I had been
taking courses at local colleges and on-line and was not that far from
meeting a degree requirement.

My DD-214 includes the following statement: "Member's service extended
by two months. Extension was at the request and for the convenience of
the government".

On 2/26/2018 5:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2018 9:44 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 23:02:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


I wonder how many service members are discharged before turning 21
anyway, but I understand your point.Â* Military service matures most.


Very few, I'd reckon.


Kiddy cruise.Â*Â* Join the navy reserves while in high school.Â*Â* When you
graduated, went to basic and 2 years duty.Â*Â* Then discharged.Â* At least
when I was in high school.

That was pretty much everyone who was drafted when that was a thing
and the 4 years after your 2 "in" was inactive reserve.
Unfortunately they "extended" a lot of those guys in the late 60s,
exploiting that inactive reserve clause. The guys in the grass were
usually 2 and out if they didn't re up but there were a lot of support
USAF and maybe even navy guys with critical skills who had to do the
whole 6 year nut.
I was in a 1 year reserve program that got extended by a month (13
months active duty), putting me pretty much in the same VA category as
a 2 year guy. I never used any of it.



I did just short of 9 years active and was supposed to be discharged in
April.Â* Started my short-timer's calendar and also sending out resumes
for jobs.Â* Then, a few weeks before D-day, I was informed that my
enlistment had been extended for an additional 2 months.Â* I went a
little bonkers because my understanding had been that after 8 years of
active duty, your required eligibility for military service was
complete.Â* Anyway, I lost the argument but the CO of the command (this
was in Annapolis, MD) who was also a short-timer told me I could go home
for the last few weeks and just call in every morning for muster.Â* I was
processed for discharge and my discharge papers would be mailed to me.
He also said he'd try to find out what the extension was all about
because itÂ* wasn't like I held a critical billet at the command and they
didn't need my replacement.Â* The Navy was beginning to decommission the
commandÂ* and were already mothballing equipment.

The CO found out that (unknown to me) I had been selected to attend a 5
week prep schoolÂ* called "Officer Development School (ODS)" which would
then lead to a direct commission to Warrant as an LDO (limited duty
officer).Â* LDO's are not flag officers and can never be a CO of a ship
or anything.Â* They usually serve in at commands that require their
educational and technical specialties.

Anyway, I didn't opt for it.Â* The extension was to allow time for the
orders and the school schedule.Â* Only problem was they neglected to tell
me about it in the paperwork shuffle.Â* My only guess is that the Navy
had invested a lot of schools in me during my enlistment plus I had been
taking courses at local colleges and on-line and was not that far from
meeting a degree requirement.

My DD-214 includes the following statement:Â* "Member's service extended
by two months.Â* Extension was at the request and for the convenience of
the government".


I should correct something. I didn't do "on-line" courses. I did
traditional correspondents courses on the ships when we were deployed.
On-line courses didn't exist back then. :-)

Also, (and unknown to me at the time) I had been advanced in rank to
E-6 however the advancement notices had not been published. E-6 and
above was a per-requisite for the LDO program and the 2 month extension
allowed it to become official. I wouldn't have done it anyway. Why
would a more senior enlisted want to start all over again as a very
junior officer? No thanks. Besides, I had pretty much had enough of
the Navy by that time.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 07:40:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/26/2018 5:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2018 9:44 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 23:02:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:


I wonder how many service members are discharged before turning 21
anyway, but I understand your point.Â* Military service matures most.


Very few, I'd reckon.


Kiddy cruise.Â*Â* Join the navy reserves while in high school.Â*Â* When you
graduated, went to basic and 2 years duty.Â*Â* Then discharged.Â* At least
when I was in high school.

That was pretty much everyone who was drafted when that was a thing
and the 4 years after your 2 "in" was inactive reserve.
Unfortunately they "extended" a lot of those guys in the late 60s,
exploiting that inactive reserve clause. The guys in the grass were
usually 2 and out if they didn't re up but there were a lot of support
USAF and maybe even navy guys with critical skills who had to do the
whole 6 year nut.
I was in a 1 year reserve program that got extended by a month (13
months active duty), putting me pretty much in the same VA category as
a 2 year guy. I never used any of it.



I did just short of 9 years active and was supposed to be discharged in
April.Â* Started my short-timer's calendar and also sending out resumes
for jobs.Â* Then, a few weeks before D-day, I was informed that my
enlistment had been extended for an additional 2 months.Â* I went a
little bonkers because my understanding had been that after 8 years of
active duty, your required eligibility for military service was
complete.Â* Anyway, I lost the argument but the CO of the command (this
was in Annapolis, MD) who was also a short-timer told me I could go home
for the last few weeks and just call in every morning for muster.Â* I was
processed for discharge and my discharge papers would be mailed to me.
He also said he'd try to find out what the extension was all about
because itÂ* wasn't like I held a critical billet at the command and they
didn't need my replacement.Â* The Navy was beginning to decommission the
commandÂ* and were already mothballing equipment.

The CO found out that (unknown to me) I had been selected to attend a 5
week prep schoolÂ* called "Officer Development School (ODS)" which would
then lead to a direct commission to Warrant as an LDO (limited duty
officer).Â* LDO's are not flag officers and can never be a CO of a ship
or anything.Â* They usually serve in at commands that require their
educational and technical specialties.

Anyway, I didn't opt for it.Â* The extension was to allow time for the
orders and the school schedule.Â* Only problem was they neglected to tell
me about it in the paperwork shuffle.Â* My only guess is that the Navy
had invested a lot of schools in me during my enlistment plus I had been
taking courses at local colleges and on-line and was not that far from
meeting a degree requirement.

My DD-214 includes the following statement:Â* "Member's service extended
by two months.Â* Extension was at the request and for the convenience of
the government".


I should correct something. I didn't do "on-line" courses. I did
traditional correspondents courses on the ships when we were deployed.
On-line courses didn't exist back then. :-)

Also, (and unknown to me at the time) I had been advanced in rank to
E-6 however the advancement notices had not been published. E-6 and
above was a per-requisite for the LDO program and the 2 month extension
allowed it to become official. I wouldn't have done it anyway. Why
would a more senior enlisted want to start all over again as a very
junior officer? No thanks. Besides, I had pretty much had enough of
the Navy by that time.

I was supposed to be fast tracked in the CG and it was not uncommon
for guys to be E-6 (FT1) in 4 years with the CPO as the incentive to
ship over. Unfortunately me taking the GM 3&2 course and pushing that
instead of the FT3 that was pretty much automatic after "A" school,
derailed that path. When I got to my reserve unit I was in an ORTAUG
and back to being a Gunner's Mate until they finally found me 3 years
later. They gave me my FT3 crow and shipped me off to the ORTEL
(electronics unit). I couldn't wait to get out after that.