Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and do not have a
gun safety certificate. Need a certificate as a minor to drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being able to buy a
firearm. Military service would qualify. Hunter safety course would
qualify. CCW course would qualify.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:04:02 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:21 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 03:24:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:11:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 3:45 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:21:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 12:13 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 07:25:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Here's a weird one. In Massachusetts, one of the most liberal states, a
15 year old can legally purchase and own a long gun with his/her
parent's permission.


If the parents are OK with it, can't a kid have any gun they want at
any age? Who is going to stop them?
I had my first shotgun at 14-15 when I started to hunt but I had a .22
for years before that. I suppose technically it was my dad's, handed
down from my grandfather but I had free access to it and they sold
ammo at the 7-11.


Fortunately, most parents I know personally have more smarts and a sense
of responsibility to allow their kids at any minor age to own guns.


That is Acela corridor thinking again and big city thinking at that.
In the early 60s hunting was a thing most of my friends did before
they could drive and this was just outside of DC in PG county.
Like I said, the 7-11 sold shotgun shells and .22s
I am sure that sounds strange today but you could walk in the woods
all the way from the DC line behind Eastover shopping center and
Forest Heights to the river, down past where National Harbor is now
and never see a thing but woods. That was 4 or 5 square miles
contiguous with the woods behind my house before they built the
interstate. Typically we did not really do much hunting east of 210
but there were some good quail and rabbit fields before you got there,
pretty much where the right of way for I-495 is now. West of 210 there
was just about anything you could expect to find in Maryland.
The strange thing is there is still a pretty big undeveloped parcel
down there right now.



There are plenty people who hunt in Massachusetts and the areas we've
lived in are probably more heavily wooded than your experience in
Maryland. The last house I lived in with my parents as a kid was
surrounded by tens of thousands of acres of woods and undeveloped land.

I still don't know of any parent I know who would allow a minor child to
have his/her very own gun. BB guns, yes. Firearms ... no.



===

I grew up in a semi-rural area of upstate NY and many of my friends
had their own 22s and/or shot guns. Not one was ever injured or
involved in any gun related incident.


Did your friends have AR-15s and have a Rambo mindset?


Now you have changed the subject then haven't you?
You went from "no minor should ever have anything but a BB gun" to
assuming we want our kid to have an AR. That being said, I am sure out
west where it is relatively safe to shoot one, there are teenagers
with ARs. They would usually start with a .22rf and demonstrate that
they are safe and knowledgable first but there are plenty of people
out in flyover country who understand a gun is a tool.



How have I changed the subject? My point was that you really can't
compare what was common 50 years ago to today. AR-15s had not been
invented that I know of and I don't think a teenager could run down
to the local gun store back then and buy a rifle designed for the
military back then.

I guess you never went to Ye Olde Hunter in Alexandria. They
specialized in old military rifles. Granted most were bolt action
because that was what most militaries had but you could also buy an M1
carbine with 20 and 30 round magazines if you had the money or any
number of SA pistols, pretty cheap. I was 19 when I bought my 34
Barretta for $40 and I walked out the door with it. Same with a .38
super 1911.


AR was around. 50 years ago. Basic we used M1 carbine in Air Force.
Probably first time I fired M16 was yearly qualifying in about 1967. We
were not allowed autofire.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/24/18 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:50:48 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:05:25 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:19:14 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per 100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per 100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January, authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased' firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting. Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

These people are in the business of selling illegal drugs that they
have no problem finding. Why would it be hard to find illegal guns?
In fact I bet a lot of street level drug deals are trading drugs for
stolen guns.

We're not talking about 'illegal' guns. We're talking about gun control laws. Those apply to the law
abiding, not the drug and illegal gun dealers.

Yeah, why look at the majority of the murders when you can pass more
laws that *might* have an effect on less than 2% of them?
Most of these guns were purchased legally by adults.
Of course that has consequences too. Back in the 60s and 70s it was
all about "Saturday Night Specials". Small caliber, cheap, imported
handguns were banned. Now the thugs are carrying 9mm and .45 Sigs,
Glocks and S&Ws. Was that an improvement? At least when they had a no
name .32 auto, there was a good chance it would jam and you could run
away. Even if they hit you it was a .22, .25 or .32 usually with FMJ
bullets. That is far more survivable than being hit by a high
performance 9mm or .45.


What little I've read on that subject seems to indicate the more
ferocious round is the .357 Magnum. I don't really want to find out,
though. :)

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:50:48 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:05:25 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:19:14 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a
very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per
100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per
100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January,
authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk
Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun
offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los
Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased'
firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting.
Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

These people are in the business of selling illegal drugs that they
have no problem finding. Why would it be hard to find illegal guns?
In fact I bet a lot of street level drug deals are trading drugs for
stolen guns.

We're not talking about 'illegal' guns. We're talking about gun control
laws. Those apply to the law
abiding, not the drug and illegal gun dealers.

Yeah, why look at the majority of the murders when you can pass more
laws that *might* have an effect on less than 2% of them?
Most of these guns were purchased legally by adults.
Of course that has consequences too. Back in the 60s and 70s it was
all about "Saturday Night Specials". Small caliber, cheap, imported
handguns were banned. Now the thugs are carrying 9mm and .45 Sigs,
Glocks and S&Ws. Was that an improvement? At least when they had a no
name .32 auto, there was a good chance it would jam and you could run
away. Even if they hit you it was a .22, .25 or .32 usually with FMJ
bullets. That is far more survivable than being hit by a high
performance 9mm or .45.


What little I've read on that subject seems to indicate the more
ferocious round is the .357 Magnum. I don't really want to find out,
though. :)


Lots more power than a 9mm. Problem with the .357 is it goes though the
target and hits someone though a house wall or a mile later hits some
innocent bystanders.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

John H. wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 00:26:49 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 15:11:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I just didn't grow up with my parents saying, "Why don't you go out and
play with your .22 rifle" just to get me out of their hair. It was bad
enough when (in the middle of the summer) they finally caught me going
outside with a winter coat, knit hat and carrying swimming googles.
They weren't aware of the BB gun fights a bunch of us had.

See that must be a northern thing. I never heard of anyone shooting at
someone else with a BB gun when we were growing up. It was still a gun
and we were taught to not even point it at someone. My father would
have stomped a mud hole in my ass if he saw me point a cap gun at
someone.

We never had BB gun fights, but we did have a lot of 'Fanner 50' fights.
I suppose my parents were a
bit less strict than yours. We had to collect bottles to buy caps with!

Later on we collected wire, burned of the insulation, and sold the copper
to the junk yard. Didn't
get much, but it would be enough to buy a box of .22 shorts. I think they
were about 50 cents a box
then.


Maybe less than that. 22lr was 50 cents a box here. Cheaper by the
brick.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/24/2018 1:03 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.


Wow. That certainly disqualifies all the other honorably discharged vets.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/24/18 1:27 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 1:03 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.


Wow.Â* That certainly disqualifies all the other honorably discharged vets.


Not at all...I just think that if there are new rules in guns, they
should apply to everyone.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/24/18 1:20 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:50:48 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:05:25 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:19:14 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a
very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per
100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per
100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January,
authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk
Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun
offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los
Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased'
firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting.
Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

These people are in the business of selling illegal drugs that they
have no problem finding. Why would it be hard to find illegal guns?
In fact I bet a lot of street level drug deals are trading drugs for
stolen guns.

We're not talking about 'illegal' guns. We're talking about gun control
laws. Those apply to the law
abiding, not the drug and illegal gun dealers.

Yeah, why look at the majority of the murders when you can pass more
laws that *might* have an effect on less than 2% of them?
Most of these guns were purchased legally by adults.
Of course that has consequences too. Back in the 60s and 70s it was
all about "Saturday Night Specials". Small caliber, cheap, imported
handguns were banned. Now the thugs are carrying 9mm and .45 Sigs,
Glocks and S&Ws. Was that an improvement? At least when they had a no
name .32 auto, there was a good chance it would jam and you could run
away. Even if they hit you it was a .22, .25 or .32 usually with FMJ
bullets. That is far more survivable than being hit by a high
performance 9mm or .45.


What little I've read on that subject seems to indicate the more
ferocious round is the .357 Magnum. I don't really want to find out,
though. :)


Lots more power than a 9mm. Problem with the .357 is it goes though the
target and hits someone though a house wall or a mile later hits some
innocent bystanders.



Well, then, if you have to shoot a thug with your .357 MAG, you should
make sure he is standing in front of a good backstop. :)

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:07:27 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.

We aren't talking about the range tho are we.



It doesn't matter where you are. Cops catch you out "hunting" or
shooting in the woods with a magazine in excess of 10 round capacity you
will loose it, the gun and your permit to have one.


That is just you and maybe Bill. Even the formally Free State of
Maryland, Harry can have a 50 round magazine that he bought in
Virginia.


We do not need a permit to own a firearm. We are limited to 10round mags
on any rifle.

You still have a banned list tho don't you?

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and do not have a
gun safety certificate. Need a certificate as a minor to drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being able to buy a
firearm. Military service would qualify. Hunter safety course would
qualify. CCW course would qualify.

That wouldn't bother me a bit. Twenty-one years old and gun safety course for a mil-style firearm.
And, a voter ID!

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and do not have a
gun safety certificate. Need a certificate as a minor to drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being able to buy a
firearm. Military service would qualify. Hunter safety course would
qualify. CCW course would qualify.

I am all for training but what training? In Florida it seems to be
more legal than practical. They spend most of the time telling you
can't really shoot anyone and then talk about basic firearm safety,
how to carry your weapon, how to secure your weapon etc.
The other extreme would be going to Gunsite but that is up in five
figures for the comprehensive courses.
I am afraid the lefties would call that "murder school" because it in
99% tactical.
I would certainly agree CCW courses could be more extensive. Like most
things government mandated they just tend to be superficial.

It is like when people tell me drivers are "tested". Yeah when they
were 16 they demonstrated they could drive around some cones without
hitting any and parallel park. From then on for the next 60 to 80
years it is just send in a check. Some states do an eye test but far
from all and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck that.
Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:26 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:

I guess you never went to Ye Olde Hunter in Alexandria. They
specialized in old military rifles. Granted most were bolt action
because that was what most militaries had but you could also buy an M1
carbine with 20 and 30 round magazines if you had the money or any
number of SA pistols, pretty cheap. I was 19 when I bought my 34
Barretta for $40 and I walked out the door with it. Same with a .38
super 1911.


AR was around. 50 years ago. Basic we used M1 carbine in Air Force.
Probably first time I fired M16 was yearly qualifying in about 1967. We
were not allowed autofire.

I never saw an M16 until the absolute last day I was in the CG. I was
at Yorktown processing out and went to see my old chief who was
"gunner" there. He asked if I wanted to go to the range with him and I
did. We shot some .45 for old times sake (he taught me to shoot) then
he asked if I wanted to try an M16. I fired about 10 in semi and did
the rest in bursts. I am not even sure if this was the A1 or A2 that
only fires 3 at a time but short bursts was how I learned to shoot
anyway ... on a M2.

We had M1s on the ship. I hear they got M14s later but I never saw
one. On the reserve cruises we were not gunners mates like the FTs on
active duty. It was pretty much just a boat ride.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/24/2018 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and do not have a
gun safety certificate. Need a certificate as a minor to drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being able to buy a
firearm. Military service would qualify. Hunter safety course would
qualify. CCW course would qualify.

I am all for training but what training? In Florida it seems to be
more legal than practical. They spend most of the time telling you
can't really shoot anyone and then talk about basic firearm safety,
how to carry your weapon, how to secure your weapon etc.
The other extreme would be going to Gunsite but that is up in five
figures for the comprehensive courses.
I am afraid the lefties would call that "murder school" because it in
99% tactical.
I would certainly agree CCW courses could be more extensive. Like most
things government mandated they just tend to be superficial.

It is like when people tell me drivers are "tested". Yeah when they
were 16 they demonstrated they could drive around some cones without
hitting any and parallel park. From then on for the next 60 to 80
years it is just send in a check. Some states do an eye test but far
from all and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck that.
Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.



The permit course I took was only 4 hours of instruction and an hour on
the range. That's it. Instructors must be NRA certified and that's the
minimum course required for a permit.

My son and his wife took a much more extensive course here in MA before
they moved to SC. I've forgotten how long it was exactly but they went
2 or 3 evenings a week for over a month.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 12:57:12 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/24/18 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:50:48 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:05:25 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:19:14 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per 100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per 100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January, authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased' firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting. Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

These people are in the business of selling illegal drugs that they
have no problem finding. Why would it be hard to find illegal guns?
In fact I bet a lot of street level drug deals are trading drugs for
stolen guns.

We're not talking about 'illegal' guns. We're talking about gun control laws. Those apply to the law
abiding, not the drug and illegal gun dealers.

Yeah, why look at the majority of the murders when you can pass more
laws that *might* have an effect on less than 2% of them?
Most of these guns were purchased legally by adults.
Of course that has consequences too. Back in the 60s and 70s it was
all about "Saturday Night Specials". Small caliber, cheap, imported
handguns were banned. Now the thugs are carrying 9mm and .45 Sigs,
Glocks and S&Ws. Was that an improvement? At least when they had a no
name .32 auto, there was a good chance it would jam and you could run
away. Even if they hit you it was a .22, .25 or .32 usually with FMJ
bullets. That is far more survivable than being hit by a high
performance 9mm or .45.


What little I've read on that subject seems to indicate the more
ferocious round is the .357 Magnum. I don't really want to find out,
though. :)

The old school thinking was that even a .38 was superior to the 9mm
but that was before people started making decent 9mm bullets (or
indecent ones if you like)
The FBI was at the leading edge of that research. They originally
thought the 10mm was going to be their gun but it turned out to be too
hot, even for those guys. Then they pushed back to the .40 S&W but
when the better performing 9mm came along they went to it.
Dead is still dead but I think the old school .357 may not really be
any better than a new 9mm. Now when you put that same technology in a
..357 case, you really have something but only 6 times, not 16-19.
I am old school enough to like my .45
Thanks to Chief/Gunner Rawls I can actually hit what I am aiming at
with it and not really have to think about it much. I also think the
recoil is less than or at least more manageable than the .357 for
quick follow up shots. I think it is like the difference between a
rifle and a shotgun.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 1:20 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:50:48 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:05:25 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:19:14 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a
very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per
100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per
100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January,
authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk
Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun
offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los
Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased'
firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting.
Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

These people are in the business of selling illegal drugs that they
have no problem finding. Why would it be hard to find illegal guns?
In fact I bet a lot of street level drug deals are trading drugs for
stolen guns.

We're not talking about 'illegal' guns. We're talking about gun control
laws. Those apply to the law
abiding, not the drug and illegal gun dealers.

Yeah, why look at the majority of the murders when you can pass more
laws that *might* have an effect on less than 2% of them?
Most of these guns were purchased legally by adults.
Of course that has consequences too. Back in the 60s and 70s it was
all about "Saturday Night Specials". Small caliber, cheap, imported
handguns were banned. Now the thugs are carrying 9mm and .45 Sigs,
Glocks and S&Ws. Was that an improvement? At least when they had a no
name .32 auto, there was a good chance it would jam and you could run
away. Even if they hit you it was a .22, .25 or .32 usually with FMJ
bullets. That is far more survivable than being hit by a high
performance 9mm or .45.


What little I've read on that subject seems to indicate the more
ferocious round is the .357 Magnum. I don't really want to find out,
though. :)


Lots more power than a 9mm. Problem with the .357 is it goes though the
target and hits someone though a house wall or a mile later hits some
innocent bystanders.



Well, then, if you have to shoot a thug with your .357 MAG, you should
make sure he is standing in front of a good backstop. :)


I have a friend who is a retired cop. He had to shoot at a robber one
day. He aimed up a little so would not hit a car on the freeway if a
miss. Went a mile and through the sheet metal wall of a building and
wounded a lady in the neck. Inch one way, Miss, other way dead. He says
he still gets chills looking at the building.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 15:55:49 -0500, wrote:

Some states do an eye test but far
from all, and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck that.

Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.

===

Judging from some of the drivers on the road this time of year, I'd
guess that it is not uncommon.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 13:03:42 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.

Obviously, an honorable discharge wouldn't catch all the deviants. But how many of them used the
weapons under discussion to shoot kids in the schools under discussion?

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:10:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and do not have a
gun safety certificate. Need a certificate as a minor to drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being able to buy a
firearm. Military service would qualify. Hunter safety course would
qualify. CCW course would qualify.

I am all for training but what training? In Florida it seems to be
more legal than practical. They spend most of the time telling you
can't really shoot anyone and then talk about basic firearm safety,
how to carry your weapon, how to secure your weapon etc.
The other extreme would be going to Gunsite but that is up in five
figures for the comprehensive courses.
I am afraid the lefties would call that "murder school" because it in
99% tactical.
I would certainly agree CCW courses could be more extensive. Like most
things government mandated they just tend to be superficial.

It is like when people tell me drivers are "tested". Yeah when they
were 16 they demonstrated they could drive around some cones without
hitting any and parallel park. From then on for the next 60 to 80
years it is just send in a check. Some states do an eye test but far
from all and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck that.
Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.



The permit course I took was only 4 hours of instruction and an hour on
the range. That's it. Instructors must be NRA certified and that's the
minimum course required for a permit.

My son and his wife took a much more extensive course here in MA before
they moved to SC. I've forgotten how long it was exactly but they went
2 or 3 evenings a week for over a month.

The guys who teach here are usually off duty or former cops. I suppose
that is why it is so heavy on the law.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:32:35 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 15:55:49 -0500, wrote:

Some states do an eye test but far
from all, and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck that.

Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.

===

Judging from some of the drivers on the road this time of year, I'd
guess that it is not uncommon.

My FIL is 89, damn near 90 and he is still out there in a new
Cadillac. He did back down from the Northstar but it is still a pretty
peppy boat. I think it is 268 HP Turbo 2 liter.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/24/2018 5:13 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:10:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and do not have a
gun safety certificate. Need a certificate as a minor to drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being able to buy a
firearm. Military service would qualify. Hunter safety course would
qualify. CCW course would qualify.

I am all for training but what training? In Florida it seems to be
more legal than practical. They spend most of the time telling you
can't really shoot anyone and then talk about basic firearm safety,
how to carry your weapon, how to secure your weapon etc.
The other extreme would be going to Gunsite but that is up in five
figures for the comprehensive courses.
I am afraid the lefties would call that "murder school" because it in
99% tactical.
I would certainly agree CCW courses could be more extensive. Like most
things government mandated they just tend to be superficial.

It is like when people tell me drivers are "tested". Yeah when they
were 16 they demonstrated they could drive around some cones without
hitting any and parallel park. From then on for the next 60 to 80
years it is just send in a check. Some states do an eye test but far
from all and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck that.
Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.



The permit course I took was only 4 hours of instruction and an hour on
the range. That's it. Instructors must be NRA certified and that's the
minimum course required for a permit.

My son and his wife took a much more extensive course here in MA before
they moved to SC. I've forgotten how long it was exactly but they went
2 or 3 evenings a week for over a month.


The guys who teach here are usually off duty or former cops. I suppose
that is why it is so heavy on the law.


The one I had was a retired cop. He got his NRA certification and
teaches the course as a part-time retirement job. His course was
sprinkled with many "lawful" suggestions including encounters with
police, what to say and what not to say.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:07:27 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.

We aren't talking about the range tho are we.



It doesn't matter where you are. Cops catch you out "hunting" or
shooting in the woods with a magazine in excess of 10 round capacity you
will loose it, the gun and your permit to have one.


That is just you and maybe Bill. Even the formally Free State of
Maryland, Harry can have a 50 round magazine that he bought in
Virginia.


We do not need a permit to own a firearm. We are limited to 10round mags
on any rifle.

You still have a banned list tho don't you?


Yup. As you say, does not really make sense. S&W M&P AR with bullet
button is legal. But if you had, I think, a flash suppressor added, is
now illegal.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 5:13 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:10:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and do not have a
gun safety certificate. Need a certificate as a minor to drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being able to buy a
firearm. Military service would qualify. Hunter safety course would
qualify. CCW course would qualify.

I am all for training but what training? In Florida it seems to be
more legal than practical. They spend most of the time telling you
can't really shoot anyone and then talk about basic firearm safety,
how to carry your weapon, how to secure your weapon etc.
The other extreme would be going to Gunsite but that is up in five
figures for the comprehensive courses.
I am afraid the lefties would call that "murder school" because it in
99% tactical.
I would certainly agree CCW courses could be more extensive. Like most
things government mandated they just tend to be superficial.

It is like when people tell me drivers are "tested". Yeah when they
were 16 they demonstrated they could drive around some cones without
hitting any and parallel park. From then on for the next 60 to 80
years it is just send in a check. Some states do an eye test but far
from all and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck that.
Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.



The permit course I took was only 4 hours of instruction and an hour on
the range. That's it. Instructors must be NRA certified and that's the
minimum course required for a permit.

My son and his wife took a much more extensive course here in MA before
they moved to SC. I've forgotten how long it was exactly but they went
2 or 3 evenings a week for over a month.


The guys who teach here are usually off duty or former cops. I suppose
that is why it is so heavy on the law.


The one I had was a retired cop. He got his NRA certification and
teaches the course as a part-time retirement job. His course was
sprinkled with many "lawful" suggestions including encounters with
police, what to say and what not to say.




I would like to see a more hunter safety course type training. We had
maybe 8 hours classroom and a 1/2 day at the range.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:46:21 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 13:03:42 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.

Obviously, an honorable discharge wouldn't catch all the deviants. But how many of them used the
weapons under discussion to shoot kids in the schools under discussion?

Well Whitman used a rifle to shoot students but it was a bolt action,
as was Oswald's., McVeigh didn't use a gun at all and racked up a much
higher death count. I am not really sure what point they are making in
an AR 15 rant. It really sounds more like my argument that banning ARs
is pretty meaningless.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 00:40:44 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 5:13 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:10:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and do not have a
gun safety certificate. Need a certificate as a minor to drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being able to buy a
firearm. Military service would qualify. Hunter safety course would
qualify. CCW course would qualify.

I am all for training but what training? In Florida it seems to be
more legal than practical. They spend most of the time telling you
can't really shoot anyone and then talk about basic firearm safety,
how to carry your weapon, how to secure your weapon etc.
The other extreme would be going to Gunsite but that is up in five
figures for the comprehensive courses.
I am afraid the lefties would call that "murder school" because it in
99% tactical.
I would certainly agree CCW courses could be more extensive. Like most
things government mandated they just tend to be superficial.

It is like when people tell me drivers are "tested". Yeah when they
were 16 they demonstrated they could drive around some cones without
hitting any and parallel park. From then on for the next 60 to 80
years it is just send in a check. Some states do an eye test but far
from all and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck that.
Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.



The permit course I took was only 4 hours of instruction and an hour on
the range. That's it. Instructors must be NRA certified and that's the
minimum course required for a permit.

My son and his wife took a much more extensive course here in MA before
they moved to SC. I've forgotten how long it was exactly but they went
2 or 3 evenings a week for over a month.


The guys who teach here are usually off duty or former cops. I suppose
that is why it is so heavy on the law.


The one I had was a retired cop. He got his NRA certification and
teaches the course as a part-time retirement job. His course was
sprinkled with many "lawful" suggestions including encounters with
police, what to say and what not to say.




I would like to see a more hunter safety course type training. We had
maybe 8 hours classroom and a 1/2 day at the range.

That may be more than the military gets if you are not in the army or
the marines.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 00:40:44 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 5:13 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:10:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and do not have a
gun safety certificate. Need a certificate as a minor to drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being able to buy a
firearm. Military service would qualify. Hunter safety course would
qualify. CCW course would qualify.

I am all for training but what training? In Florida it seems to be
more legal than practical. They spend most of the time telling you
can't really shoot anyone and then talk about basic firearm safety,
how to carry your weapon, how to secure your weapon etc.
The other extreme would be going to Gunsite but that is up in five
figures for the comprehensive courses.
I am afraid the lefties would call that "murder school" because it in
99% tactical.
I would certainly agree CCW courses could be more extensive. Like most
things government mandated they just tend to be superficial.

It is like when people tell me drivers are "tested". Yeah when they
were 16 they demonstrated they could drive around some cones without
hitting any and parallel park. From then on for the next 60 to 80
years it is just send in a check. Some states do an eye test but far
from all and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck that.
Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.



The permit course I took was only 4 hours of instruction and an hour on
the range. That's it. Instructors must be NRA certified and that's the
minimum course required for a permit.

My son and his wife took a much more extensive course here in MA before
they moved to SC. I've forgotten how long it was exactly but they went
2 or 3 evenings a week for over a month.


The guys who teach here are usually off duty or former cops. I suppose
that is why it is so heavy on the law.


The one I had was a retired cop. He got his NRA certification and
teaches the course as a part-time retirement job. His course was
sprinkled with many "lawful" suggestions including encounters with
police, what to say and what not to say.




I would like to see a more hunter safety course type training. We had
maybe 8 hours classroom and a 1/2 day at the range.

That may be more than the military gets if you are not in the army or
the marines.


Air Force b@sic we got one day inside with safety and aiming and breaking
down the weapon and a day at the range. If you were going to posted in a
shooting area, they told us we would get lots more training later.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/25/2018 1:00 AM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 00:40:44 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 5:13 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:10:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and do not have a
gun safety certificate. Need a certificate as a minor to drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being able to buy a
firearm. Military service would qualify. Hunter safety course would
qualify. CCW course would qualify.

I am all for training but what training? In Florida it seems to be
more legal than practical. They spend most of the time telling you
can't really shoot anyone and then talk about basic firearm safety,
how to carry your weapon, how to secure your weapon etc.
The other extreme would be going to Gunsite but that is up in five
figures for the comprehensive courses.
I am afraid the lefties would call that "murder school" because it in
99% tactical.
I would certainly agree CCW courses could be more extensive. Like most
things government mandated they just tend to be superficial.

It is like when people tell me drivers are "tested". Yeah when they
were 16 they demonstrated they could drive around some cones without
hitting any and parallel park. From then on for the next 60 to 80
years it is just send in a check. Some states do an eye test but far
from all and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck that.
Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.



The permit course I took was only 4 hours of instruction and an hour on
the range. That's it. Instructors must be NRA certified and that's the
minimum course required for a permit.

My son and his wife took a much more extensive course here in MA before
they moved to SC. I've forgotten how long it was exactly but they went
2 or 3 evenings a week for over a month.


The guys who teach here are usually off duty or former cops. I suppose
that is why it is so heavy on the law.


The one I had was a retired cop. He got his NRA certification and
teaches the course as a part-time retirement job. His course was
sprinkled with many "lawful" suggestions including encounters with
police, what to say and what not to say.




I would like to see a more hunter safety course type training. We had
maybe 8 hours classroom and a 1/2 day at the range.

That may be more than the military gets if you are not in the army or
the marines.


Air Force b@sic we got one day inside with safety and aiming and breaking
down the weapon and a day at the range. If you were going to posted in a
shooting area, they told us we would get lots more training later.



Same with the Navy back in the old days. Those who went on to become
Gunner's Mates received more extensive training later.

The ships I was on often held training and shooting exercises for
everyone on the helicopter deck while at sea. We got to try just about
everything in the small arms locker.

Today's Navy includes more extensive training in firearms even in basic
training.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:43:52 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:46:21 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 13:03:42 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.

Obviously, an honorable discharge wouldn't catch all the deviants. But how many of them used the
weapons under discussion to shoot kids in the schools under discussion?

Well Whitman used a rifle to shoot students but it was a bolt action,
as was Oswald's., McVeigh didn't use a gun at all and racked up a much
higher death count. I am not really sure what point they are making in
an AR 15 rant. It really sounds more like my argument that banning ARs
is pretty meaningless.

Ask Harry. It was his rant against an honorable discharge.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 06:59:56 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/25/2018 1:00 AM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 00:40:44 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 5:13 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:10:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and do not have a
gun safety certificate. Need a certificate as a minor to drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being able to buy a
firearm. Military service would qualify. Hunter safety course would
qualify. CCW course would qualify.

I am all for training but what training? In Florida it seems to be
more legal than practical. They spend most of the time telling you
can't really shoot anyone and then talk about basic firearm safety,
how to carry your weapon, how to secure your weapon etc.
The other extreme would be going to Gunsite but that is up in five
figures for the comprehensive courses.
I am afraid the lefties would call that "murder school" because it in
99% tactical.
I would certainly agree CCW courses could be more extensive. Like most
things government mandated they just tend to be superficial.

It is like when people tell me drivers are "tested". Yeah when they
were 16 they demonstrated they could drive around some cones without
hitting any and parallel park. From then on for the next 60 to 80
years it is just send in a check. Some states do an eye test but far
from all and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck that.
Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.



The permit course I took was only 4 hours of instruction and an hour on
the range. That's it. Instructors must be NRA certified and that's the
minimum course required for a permit.

My son and his wife took a much more extensive course here in MA before
they moved to SC. I've forgotten how long it was exactly but they went
2 or 3 evenings a week for over a month.


The guys who teach here are usually off duty or former cops. I suppose
that is why it is so heavy on the law.


The one I had was a retired cop. He got his NRA certification and
teaches the course as a part-time retirement job. His course was
sprinkled with many "lawful" suggestions including encounters with
police, what to say and what not to say.




I would like to see a more hunter safety course type training. We had
maybe 8 hours classroom and a 1/2 day at the range.

That may be more than the military gets if you are not in the army or
the marines.


Air Force b@sic we got one day inside with safety and aiming and breaking
down the weapon and a day at the range. If you were going to posted in a
shooting area, they told us we would get lots more training later.



Same with the Navy back in the old days. Those who went on to become
Gunner's Mates received more extensive training later.

The ships I was on often held training and shooting exercises for
everyone on the helicopter deck while at sea. We got to try just about
everything in the small arms locker.

Today's Navy includes more extensive training in firearms even in basic
training.

We spent a lot of time in the classroom and a lot of time on the range. The range was a several mile
walk from the barracks, so we did get our exercise. This was at Fort Leonard Wood, MO.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/25/18 6:59 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2018 1:00 AM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 00:40:44 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 5:13 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:10:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the
rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns,"
Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we
have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related
shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't
think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and
do not have a
gun safety certificate.Â*Â* Need a certificate as a minor to
drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the
conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so
tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might
have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun
charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being
able to buy a
firearm.Â*Â* Military service would qualify.Â*Â* Hunter safety
course would
qualify.Â*Â* CCW course would qualify.

I am all for training but what training? In Florida it seems to be
more legal than practical. They spend most of the time telling you
can't really shoot anyone and then talk about basic firearm safety,
how to carry your weapon,Â* how to secure your weapon etc.
The other extreme would be going to Gunsite but that is up in five
figures for the comprehensive courses.
I am afraid the lefties would call that "murder school" because
it in
99% tactical.
I would certainly agree CCW courses could be more extensive.
Like most
things government mandated they just tend to be superficial.

It is like when people tell me drivers are "tested". Yeah when they
were 16 they demonstrated they could drive around some cones
without
hitting any and parallel park. From then on for the next 60 to 80
years it is just send in a check. Some states do an eye test but
far
from all and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck that.
Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.



The permit course I took was only 4 hours of instruction and an
hour on
the range.Â* That's it.Â* Instructors must be NRA certified and
that's the
minimum course required for a permit.

My son and his wife took a much more extensive course here in MA
before
they moved to SC.Â* I've forgotten how long it was exactly but
they went
2 or 3 evenings a week for over a month.


The guys who teach here are usually off duty or former cops. I
suppose
that is why it is so heavy on the law.


The one I had was a retired cop.Â* He got his NRA certification and
teaches the course as a part-time retirement job.Â* His course was
sprinkled with many "lawful" suggestions including encounters with
police, what to say and what not to say.




I would like to see a more hunter safety course type training.Â*Â* We had
maybe 8 hours classroom and a 1/2 day at the range.

That may be more than the military gets if you are not in the army or
the marines.


Air Force b@sic we got one day inside with safety and aiming and breaking
down the weapon and a day at the range.Â* If you were going to posted in a
shooting area, they told us we would get lots more training later.



Same with the Navy back in the old days. Those who went on to become
Gunner's Mates received more extensive training later.

The ships I was on often held training and shooting exercises for
everyone on the helicopter deck while at sea.Â* We got to try just about
everything in the small arms locker.

Today's Navy includes more extensive training in firearms evenÂ* in basic
training.


How extensive?

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/25/2018 10:58 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/25/18 6:59 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2018 1:00 AM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 00:40:44 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 5:13 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:10:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the
rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns,"
Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we
have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related
shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I
don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and
do not have a
gun safety certificate.Â*Â* Need a certificate as a minor to
drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the
conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so
tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might
have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun
charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being
able to buy a
firearm.Â*Â* Military service would qualify.Â*Â* Hunter safety
course would
qualify.Â*Â* CCW course would qualify.

I am all for training but what training? In Florida it seems to be
more legal than practical. They spend most of the time telling you
can't really shoot anyone and then talk about basic firearm
safety,
how to carry your weapon,Â* how to secure your weapon etc.
The other extreme would be going to Gunsite but that is up in five
figures for the comprehensive courses.
I am afraid the lefties would call that "murder school" because
it in
99% tactical.
I would certainly agree CCW courses could be more extensive.
Like most
things government mandated they just tend to be superficial.

It is like when people tell me drivers are "tested". Yeah when
they
were 16 they demonstrated they could drive around some cones
without
hitting any and parallel park. From then on for the next 60 to 80
years it is just send in a check. Some states do an eye test
but far
from all and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck
that.
Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.



The permit course I took was only 4 hours of instruction and an
hour on
the range.Â* That's it.Â* Instructors must be NRA certified and
that's the
minimum course required for a permit.

My son and his wife took a much more extensive course here in MA
before
they moved to SC.Â* I've forgotten how long it was exactly but
they went
2 or 3 evenings a week for over a month.


The guys who teach here are usually off duty or former cops. I
suppose
that is why it is so heavy on the law.


The one I had was a retired cop.Â* He got his NRA certification and
teaches the course as a part-time retirement job.Â* His course was
sprinkled with many "lawful" suggestions including encounters with
police, what to say and what not to say.




I would like to see a more hunter safety course type training.Â*Â* We
had
maybe 8 hours classroom and a 1/2 day at the range.

That may be more than the military gets if you are not in the army or
the marines.


Air Force b@sic we got one day inside with safety and aiming and
breaking
down the weapon and a day at the range.Â* If you were going to posted
in a
shooting area, they told us we would get lots more training later.



Same with the Navy back in the old days. Those who went on to become
Gunner's Mates received more extensive training later.

The ships I was on often held training and shooting exercises for
everyone on the helicopter deck while at sea.Â* We got to try just
about everything in the small arms locker.

Today's Navy includes more extensive training in firearms evenÂ* in
basic training.


How extensive?


Certainly not as extensive as the Marines or Army recruits but more than
I experienced back in 1968. Navy recruits today must qualify with a 9mm
(Glock) and a shotgun, although according to my son and son-in-law they
also used a M4.

https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/navy-weapons-qualification-course.html

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 06:59:56 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/25/2018 1:00 AM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 00:40:44 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 5:13 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:10:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and do not have a
gun safety certificate. Need a certificate as a minor to drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being able to buy a
firearm. Military service would qualify. Hunter safety course would
qualify. CCW course would qualify.

I am all for training but what training? In Florida it seems to be
more legal than practical. They spend most of the time telling you
can't really shoot anyone and then talk about basic firearm safety,
how to carry your weapon, how to secure your weapon etc.
The other extreme would be going to Gunsite but that is up in five
figures for the comprehensive courses.
I am afraid the lefties would call that "murder school" because it in
99% tactical.
I would certainly agree CCW courses could be more extensive. Like most
things government mandated they just tend to be superficial.

It is like when people tell me drivers are "tested". Yeah when they
were 16 they demonstrated they could drive around some cones without
hitting any and parallel park. From then on for the next 60 to 80
years it is just send in a check. Some states do an eye test but far
from all and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck that.
Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.



The permit course I took was only 4 hours of instruction and an hour on
the range. That's it. Instructors must be NRA certified and that's the
minimum course required for a permit.

My son and his wife took a much more extensive course here in MA before
they moved to SC. I've forgotten how long it was exactly but they went
2 or 3 evenings a week for over a month.


The guys who teach here are usually off duty or former cops. I suppose
that is why it is so heavy on the law.


The one I had was a retired cop. He got his NRA certification and
teaches the course as a part-time retirement job. His course was
sprinkled with many "lawful" suggestions including encounters with
police, what to say and what not to say.




I would like to see a more hunter safety course type training. We had
maybe 8 hours classroom and a 1/2 day at the range.

That may be more than the military gets if you are not in the army or
the marines.


Air Force b@sic we got one day inside with safety and aiming and breaking
down the weapon and a day at the range. If you were going to posted in a
shooting area, they told us we would get lots more training later.



Same with the Navy back in the old days. Those who went on to become
Gunner's Mates received more extensive training later.

The ships I was on often held training and shooting exercises for
everyone on the helicopter deck while at sea. We got to try just about
everything in the small arms locker.

Today's Navy includes more extensive training in firearms even in basic
training.

Yup, the same is true in the CG. In boot camp we had a day or two at
the range but most of it was standing around because they only had
about 8-10 guys with live rifles at a time. We got a quick "this is
the 1911" thing but nobody shot one. It wasn't until I got on a ship
and lived with the gunner's mates that I got any real small arms
training. I spent a lot of time in the armory, learning how to take
them apart and put them back together with the GM3 on board.
He had to know, I just wanted to know. We raced putting the various
weapons together in "cave dark" situations. (close the door and it
really gets dark in an interior compartment). We could both put a M2
together and head space it in the dark in a couple minutes. We had a
1911 down to less than a minute starting with the parts in a box in
field strip condition.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 07:05:10 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:43:52 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:46:21 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 13:03:42 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.

Obviously, an honorable discharge wouldn't catch all the deviants. But how many of them used the
weapons under discussion to shoot kids in the schools under discussion?

Well Whitman used a rifle to shoot students but it was a bolt action,
as was Oswald's., McVeigh didn't use a gun at all and racked up a much
higher death count. I am not really sure what point they are making in
an AR 15 rant. It really sounds more like my argument that banning ARs
is pretty meaningless.

Ask Harry. It was his rant against an honorable discharge.

I tend to ignore his anti military rants. I understand that if he had
served, that would be all we heard about.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 11:14:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/25/2018 10:58 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:

Today's Navy includes more extensive training in firearms evenÂ* in
basic training.


How extensive?


Certainly not as extensive as the Marines or Army recruits but more than
I experienced back in 1968. Navy recruits today must qualify with a 9mm
(Glock) and a shotgun, although according to my son and son-in-law they
also used a M4.

https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/navy-weapons-qualification-course.html

All of the Coasties I see on the water are carrying a sidearm and you
have to qualify to do that.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/25/2018 12:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 06:59:56 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/25/2018 1:00 AM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 00:40:44 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 5:13 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:10:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2018 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:50:25 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and do not have a
gun safety certificate. Need a certificate as a minor to drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun charge
made it mandatory 20 years.


I am saying you need to pass a gun safety course before being able to buy a
firearm. Military service would qualify. Hunter safety course would
qualify. CCW course would qualify.

I am all for training but what training? In Florida it seems to be
more legal than practical. They spend most of the time telling you
can't really shoot anyone and then talk about basic firearm safety,
how to carry your weapon, how to secure your weapon etc.
The other extreme would be going to Gunsite but that is up in five
figures for the comprehensive courses.
I am afraid the lefties would call that "murder school" because it in
99% tactical.
I would certainly agree CCW courses could be more extensive. Like most
things government mandated they just tend to be superficial.

It is like when people tell me drivers are "tested". Yeah when they
were 16 they demonstrated they could drive around some cones without
hitting any and parallel park. From then on for the next 60 to 80
years it is just send in a check. Some states do an eye test but far
from all and if your eye doctor gives you a note you can duck that.
Florida renewed my mom's license and she was dead.



The permit course I took was only 4 hours of instruction and an hour on
the range. That's it. Instructors must be NRA certified and that's the
minimum course required for a permit.

My son and his wife took a much more extensive course here in MA before
they moved to SC. I've forgotten how long it was exactly but they went
2 or 3 evenings a week for over a month.


The guys who teach here are usually off duty or former cops. I suppose
that is why it is so heavy on the law.


The one I had was a retired cop. He got his NRA certification and
teaches the course as a part-time retirement job. His course was
sprinkled with many "lawful" suggestions including encounters with
police, what to say and what not to say.




I would like to see a more hunter safety course type training. We had
maybe 8 hours classroom and a 1/2 day at the range.

That may be more than the military gets if you are not in the army or
the marines.


Air Force b@sic we got one day inside with safety and aiming and breaking
down the weapon and a day at the range. If you were going to posted in a
shooting area, they told us we would get lots more training later.



Same with the Navy back in the old days. Those who went on to become
Gunner's Mates received more extensive training later.

The ships I was on often held training and shooting exercises for
everyone on the helicopter deck while at sea. We got to try just about
everything in the small arms locker.

Today's Navy includes more extensive training in firearms even in basic
training.

Yup, the same is true in the CG. In boot camp we had a day or two at
the range but most of it was standing around because they only had
about 8-10 guys with live rifles at a time. We got a quick "this is
the 1911" thing but nobody shot one. It wasn't until I got on a ship
and lived with the gunner's mates that I got any real small arms
training. I spent a lot of time in the armory, learning how to take
them apart and put them back together with the GM3 on board.
He had to know, I just wanted to know. We raced putting the various
weapons together in "cave dark" situations. (close the door and it
really gets dark in an interior compartment). We could both put a M2
together and head space it in the dark in a couple minutes. We had a
1911 down to less than a minute starting with the parts in a box in
field strip condition.



We did a little more with the 1911s. We actually had to "qualify" by
firing them at the range. Wasn't very difficult. I think it was more
to introduce everyone without any handgun experience to safety issues.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/25/2018 12:55 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 07:05:10 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:43:52 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:46:21 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 13:03:42 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.

Obviously, an honorable discharge wouldn't catch all the deviants. But how many of them used the
weapons under discussion to shoot kids in the schools under discussion?

Well Whitman used a rifle to shoot students but it was a bolt action,
as was Oswald's., McVeigh didn't use a gun at all and racked up a much
higher death count. I am not really sure what point they are making in
an AR 15 rant. It really sounds more like my argument that banning ARs
is pretty meaningless.

Ask Harry. It was his rant against an honorable discharge.

I tend to ignore his anti military rants. I understand that if he had
served, that would be all we heard about.



It's obvious Harry knows very little about the military other than what
he's been told or heard. He has already proven how easily he is
influenced by others. He parrots daily the latest DNC talking points.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/25/2018 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 11:14:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/25/2018 10:58 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:

Today's Navy includes more extensive training in firearms evenÂ* in
basic training.


How extensive?


Certainly not as extensive as the Marines or Army recruits but more than
I experienced back in 1968. Navy recruits today must qualify with a 9mm
(Glock) and a shotgun, although according to my son and son-in-law they
also used a M4.

https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/navy-weapons-qualification-course.html

All of the Coasties I see on the water are carrying a sidearm and you
have to qualify to do that.



My grandson recently passed his qualifications for boarding team member.
The qualification process is more than just being issued a Glock with
authorization to carry it. It's more like attending a police academy,
learning all the pertinent laws and rights of those boarded.

He's currently underway on his cutter doing drug intervention patrols.
Just left GTMO and a liberty call in San Juan. Should be back home in
April sometime. Looking forward to hearing of his adventures.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/25/18 1:33 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2018 12:55 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 07:05:10 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:43:52 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:46:21 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 13:03:42 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on
it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy
McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.

Obviously, an honorable discharge wouldn't catch all the deviants.
But how many of them used the
weapons under discussion to shoot kids in the schools under
discussion?

Well Whitman used a rifle to shoot students but it was a bolt action,
as was Oswald's., McVeigh didn't use a gun at all and racked up a much
higher death count. I am not really sure what point they are making in
an AR 15 rant. It really sounds more like my argument that banning ARs
is pretty meaningless.

Ask Harry. It was his rant against an honorable discharge.

I tend to ignore his anti military rants. I understand that if he had
served, that would be all we heard about.



It's obvious Harry knows very little about the military other than what
he's been told or heard.Â* He has already proven how easily he is
influenced by others.Â* He parrots daily the latest DNC talking points.



My point was that a honorable discharge shouldn't by itself be the
qualifier for obtaining a firearm. The discharge in the cases I cited
was not an indicator of decent behavior going forward. An age qualifier
of 21 plus a good quality background check are more significant.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On 2/25/2018 2:08 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/25/18 1:33 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2018 12:55 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 07:05:10 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:43:52 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:46:21 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 13:03:42 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit
on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee
Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy
McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.

Obviously, an honorable discharge wouldn't catch all the deviants.
But how many of them used the
weapons under discussion to shoot kids in the schools under
discussion?

Well Whitman used a rifle to shoot students but it was a bolt action,
as was Oswald's., McVeigh didn't use a gun at all and racked up a much
higher death count. I am not really sure what point they are making in
an AR 15 rant. It really sounds more like my argument that banning ARs
is pretty meaningless.

Ask Harry. It was his rant against an honorable discharge.

I tend to ignore his anti military rants. I understand that if he had
served, that would be all we heard about.



It's obvious Harry knows very little about the military other than
what he's been told or heard.Â* He has already proven how easily he is
influenced by others.Â* He parrots daily the latest DNC talking points.



My point was that a honorable discharge shouldn't by itself be the
qualifier for obtaining a firearm. The discharge in the cases I cited
was not an indicator of decent behavior going forward. An age qualifier
of 21 plus a good quality background check are more significant.


I've lost what the original proposition was but I don't disagree with you.

Kids Say the Darndest Things
 

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 14:41:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/25/2018 2:08 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/25/18 1:33 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2018 12:55 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 07:05:10 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:43:52 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:46:21 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 13:03:42 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit
on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee
Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy
McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.

Obviously, an honorable discharge wouldn't catch all the deviants.
But how many of them used the
weapons under discussion to shoot kids in the schools under
discussion?

Well Whitman used a rifle to shoot students but it was a bolt action,
as was Oswald's., McVeigh didn't use a gun at all and racked up a much
higher death count. I am not really sure what point they are making in
an AR 15 rant. It really sounds more like my argument that banning ARs
is pretty meaningless.

Ask Harry. It was his rant against an honorable discharge.

I tend to ignore his anti military rants. I understand that if he had
served, that would be all we heard about.



It's obvious Harry knows very little about the military other than
what he's been told or heard.* He has already proven how easily he is
influenced by others.* He parrots daily the latest DNC talking points.



My point was that a honorable discharge shouldn't by itself be the
qualifier for obtaining a firearm. The discharge in the cases I cited
was not an indicator of decent behavior going forward. An age qualifier
of 21 plus a good quality background check are more significant.


I've lost what the original proposition was but I don't disagree with you.


I had proposed a higher age requirement, at least 21, unless the individual had an honorary
discharge DD 214.