On 1/23/18 12:23 PM, wrote:
On 23 Jan 2018 16:36:46 GMT, Keyser Soze wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:

Received a letter today from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts advising
all gun license holders on record that as of February 1, 2018
the purchase, sale or offering for sale of a bump stock or trigger crank
is unlawful.

Furthermore, effective after 90 days of February 1, 2018, the new law
makes possession of either, regardless of what type of license you have
unlawful, including possession in a private home. Even if you hold a
machine gun license, bump stocks and trigger cranks are illegal to own
after the 90 day period.

The letter goes on to state that if you have either of these devices you
are required by law to contact your local police department or the
Massachusetts State Police to arrange to transfer them for destruction
by the police.

Retention of either beyond the 90 day period will expose the owner to
criminal prosecution.


I’ve not encountered the term “trigger crank� before your posting of it.

Don't get out much huh?
They have been around at least 50 years. I made one that clamps on the
trigger guard from a small motor I got from IBM with a cam on it. The
thing worked ok but I was not sure about the legality or usefulness so
I put it away. It may still be in my junk at my Ex's house if it
didn't get tossed. My biggest problem with it was the old Marlin SA
.22 rifle I had would not cycle as fast as the motor ran. It ended up
running erratically.


I had to look it up. Never heard of it. I'm "cheap" with blowing off
ammo, so the one time I fired a fully auto rifle was enough for me. I do
admire the rapid-fire skills of Jerry Miculek with revolvers, though.

On 1/23/2018 12:54 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

Received a letter today from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts advising
all gun license holders on record that as of February 1, 2018
the purchase, sale or offering for sale of a bump stock or trigger crank
is unlawful.

Furthermore, effective after 90 days of February 1, 2018, the new law
makes possession of either, regardless of what type of license you have
unlawful, including possession in a private home. Even if you hold a
machine gun license, bump stocks and trigger cranks are illegal to own
after the 90 day period.

The letter goes on to state that if you have either of these devices you
are required by law to contact your local police department or the
Massachusetts State Police to arrange to transfer them for destruction
by the police.

Retention of either beyond the 90 day period will expose the owner to
criminal prosecution.


I heard that you need a permission slip to carry pepper spray and
tbat you have to go to Ruggles street station to get it. For
those unfamiliar with Ruggles street, you are better off not
knowing.



At one time a minimum of a FID card was required to purchase and/or
carry pepper spray (Mace) in MA. It was classified as ammunition.
However, the law was changed in 2014 and no license or permit is
required and is legal for those 18 years old and up.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 12:30:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/23/2018 12:24 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:

Received a letter today from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts advising
all gun license holders on record that as of February 1, 2018
the purchase, sale or offering for sale of a bump stock or trigger crank
is unlawful.

Furthermore, effective after 90 days of February 1, 2018, the new law
makes possession of either, regardless of what type of license you have
unlawful, including possession in a private home. Even if you hold a
machine gun license, bump stocks and trigger cranks are illegal to own
after the 90 day period.

The letter goes on to state that if you have either of these devices you
are required by law to contact your local police department or the
Massachusetts State Police to arrange to transfer them for destruction
by the police.

Retention of either beyond the 90 day period will expose the owner to
criminal prosecution.


They state may be required to buy them.



Not according to the letter. It requires anyone who owns them to
transfer them to the police for destruction.

They can take it up with Greg. :-)


I bet you see a modification in that policy. They will certainly hear
from the NRA and they might even have the ACLU join the suit. I
understand most people don't care about "taking" bump stocks but it is
the "taking" that is unconstitutional. What if they decided
motorcycles or horses were too dangerous to own and told you to turn
them in? It is the same issue from a legal standpoint. It is a post
facto law and an uncompensated taking.

On 1/23/18 12:46 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 12:22:51 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/23/2018 12:15 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 11:27:54 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Received a letter today from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts advising
all gun license holders on record that as of February 1, 2018
the purchase, sale or offering for sale of a bump stock or trigger crank
is unlawful.

Furthermore, effective after 90 days of February 1, 2018, the new law
makes possession of either, regardless of what type of license you have
unlawful, including possession in a private home. Even if you hold a
machine gun license, bump stocks and trigger cranks are illegal to own
after the 90 day period.

The letter goes on to state that if you have either of these devices you
are required by law to contact your local police department or the
Massachusetts State Police to arrange to transfer them for destruction
by the police.

Retention of either beyond the 90 day period will expose the owner to
criminal prosecution.

Perhaps they need a lesson in constitutional law
"Article I Section 9 (3). No bill of attainder or ex post facto law
shall be passed."
The 14th amendment expanded that protection to laws made by states.

They can tax the hell out of them but "taking" them without "just
compensation" (5th amendment) is unconstitutional.

Plan on your state spending some time in court.



Heh. Greg, would you like the telephone number for the MA Secretary of
State or the AG's office? Perhaps you could educate them in
Constitutional Law.

Me? I couldn't care less. Don't have either of those devices and have
no interest in them.

I only care about the loss of fundamental rights and if a state can
suddenly make something illegal that used to be legal and confiscate
it, we are all in trouble. What's next?
BTW I expect NRA will be these soon enough


States have the ability to regulate. The prohibition against Bills of
Attainder does not prevent arrest. You can demand a trial.

On 1/23/2018 2:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 12:30:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/23/2018 12:24 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:

Received a letter today from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts advising
all gun license holders on record that as of February 1, 2018
the purchase, sale or offering for sale of a bump stock or trigger crank
is unlawful.

Furthermore, effective after 90 days of February 1, 2018, the new law
makes possession of either, regardless of what type of license you have
unlawful, including possession in a private home. Even if you hold a
machine gun license, bump stocks and trigger cranks are illegal to own
after the 90 day period.

The letter goes on to state that if you have either of these devices you
are required by law to contact your local police department or the
Massachusetts State Police to arrange to transfer them for destruction
by the police.

Retention of either beyond the 90 day period will expose the owner to
criminal prosecution.


They state may be required to buy them.



Not according to the letter. It requires anyone who owns them to
transfer them to the police for destruction.

They can take it up with Greg. :-)


I bet you see a modification in that policy. They will certainly hear
from the NRA and they might even have the ACLU join the suit. I
understand most people don't care about "taking" bump stocks but it is
the "taking" that is unconstitutional. What if they decided
motorcycles or horses were too dangerous to own and told you to turn
them in? It is the same issue from a legal standpoint. It is a post
facto law and an uncompensated taking.



You forget. I live in Massachusetts.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 1/23/18 12:46 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 12:22:51 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/23/2018 12:15 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 11:27:54 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Received a letter today from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts advising
all gun license holders on record that as of February 1, 2018
the purchase, sale or offering for sale of a bump stock or trigger crank
is unlawful.

Furthermore, effective after 90 days of February 1, 2018, the new law
makes possession of either, regardless of what type of license you have
unlawful, including possession in a private home. Even if you hold a
machine gun license, bump stocks and trigger cranks are illegal to own
after the 90 day period.

The letter goes on to state that if you have either of these devices you
are required by law to contact your local police department or the
Massachusetts State Police to arrange to transfer them for destruction
by the police.

Retention of either beyond the 90 day period will expose the owner to
criminal prosecution.

Perhaps they need a lesson in constitutional law
"Article I Section 9 (3). No bill of attainder or ex post facto law
shall be passed."
The 14th amendment expanded that protection to laws made by states.

They can tax the hell out of them but "taking" them without "just
compensation" (5th amendment) is unconstitutional.

Plan on your state spending some time in court.



Heh. Greg, would you like the telephone number for the MA Secretary of
State or the AG's office? Perhaps you could educate them in
Constitutional Law.

Me? I couldn't care less. Don't have either of those devices and have
no interest in them.

I only care about the loss of fundamental rights and if a state can
suddenly make something illegal that used to be legal and confiscate
it, we are all in trouble. What's next?
BTW I expect NRA will be these soon enough


States have the ability to regulate. The prohibition against Bills of
Attainder does not prevent arrest. You can demand a trial.


And you can demand large compensation for the arrest.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 13:28:25 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 1/23/18 12:23 PM, wrote:


Don't get out much huh?
They have been around at least 50 years. I made one that clamps on the
trigger guard from a small motor I got from IBM with a cam on it. The
thing worked ok but I was not sure about the legality or usefulness so
I put it away. It may still be in my junk at my Ex's house if it
didn't get tossed. My biggest problem with it was the old Marlin SA
.22 rifle I had would not cycle as fast as the motor ran. It ended up
running erratically.


I had to look it up. Never heard of it. I'm "cheap" with blowing off
ammo, so the one time I fired a fully auto rifle was enough for me. I do
admire the rapid-fire skills of Jerry Miculek with revolvers, though.

I pretty much got my full auto fill when we had to shoot or throw over
the side 12,000 rounds of 50 cal. We also had a couple thousand rounds
of 30-06 in M1 clips. Most of them were just tossed but I did shoot a
hundred or so I suppose before the day was out, just demonstrating the
M1 to guys who had only seen them in the movies. Most of the guys shot
until the clip flew out and they were done.
The 50 was more popular but usually only for a half a can or so.
WE threw a bunch over the side. I did manage to get 100 rounds of .50
cal and a couple of bandoliers of 30-06 in my sea bag.
When I had the 10-22 my IBM/cop buddy shot it most of the times I had
it out of the safe. He provided the venue. I was mostly interested in
my M1A and the Ruger KP90.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 14:42:51 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 1/23/18 12:46 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 12:22:51 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/23/2018 12:15 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 11:27:54 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Received a letter today from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts advising
all gun license holders on record that as of February 1, 2018
the purchase, sale or offering for sale of a bump stock or trigger crank
is unlawful.

Furthermore, effective after 90 days of February 1, 2018, the new law
makes possession of either, regardless of what type of license you have
unlawful, including possession in a private home. Even if you hold a
machine gun license, bump stocks and trigger cranks are illegal to own
after the 90 day period.

The letter goes on to state that if you have either of these devices you
are required by law to contact your local police department or the
Massachusetts State Police to arrange to transfer them for destruction
by the police.

Retention of either beyond the 90 day period will expose the owner to
criminal prosecution.

Perhaps they need a lesson in constitutional law
"Article I Section 9 (3). No bill of attainder or ex post facto law
shall be passed."
The 14th amendment expanded that protection to laws made by states.

They can tax the hell out of them but "taking" them without "just
compensation" (5th amendment) is unconstitutional.

Plan on your state spending some time in court.



Heh. Greg, would you like the telephone number for the MA Secretary of
State or the AG's office? Perhaps you could educate them in
Constitutional Law.

Me? I couldn't care less. Don't have either of those devices and have
no interest in them.

I only care about the loss of fundamental rights and if a state can
suddenly make something illegal that used to be legal and confiscate
it, we are all in trouble. What's next?
BTW I expect NRA will be these soon enough


States have the ability to regulate. The prohibition against Bills of
Attainder does not prevent arrest. You can demand a trial.

You picked the wrong part. The thing that makes this unconstitutional
is the "ex post facto" law. If something was legal when you did it,
they can't come back on you after they made it illegal and if they
take your property, legally obtained, they have to compensate you.
These are rights granted in the constitution and the 14th amendment
expands them to include laws made by states.
They could give you $5 or something and make you sue them to prove
that was not "just compensation" but with the few number of plaintiffs
and the relatively low prices on these things in the first place that
probably will not attract a lawyer. That is why you need the NRA or
the ACLU to step in.
Somebody really needs to watch the government of they will just keep
chipping away at our rights and as Martin Niemölle so eloquently said,
eventually they will come for you. (or something you do care about)

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 14:52:28 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/23/2018 2:39 PM, wrote:


I bet you see a modification in that policy. They will certainly hear
from the NRA and they might even have the ACLU join the suit. I
understand most people don't care about "taking" bump stocks but it is
the "taking" that is unconstitutional. What if they decided
motorcycles or horses were too dangerous to own and told you to turn
them in? It is the same issue from a legal standpoint. It is a post
facto law and an uncompensated taking.



You forget. I live in Massachusetts.

Yeah that is supposed to be the cradle of liberty.
You guys threw the tea in the water over taxes and unarmed patriots
charged redcoats over the right to have a snow ball fight.
Now look at you.
That wasn't an earthquake in Sanbornton
John Adams is rolling over in his grave