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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,961
Default Far OT for my creative friends.

On 1/15/2018 4:47 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 13:47:33 -0500,

wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 02:23:21 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 23:37:16 -0500,

wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 22:09:37 -0500,
wrote:

45 years ago I was in a bar in Chicago and they had a laser deal that
plotted the 2 channels of the sound system as a Lissajous pattern on
the back wall.
I tried to make one using an old Neon laser and mirrors on speaker
drivers about 40 years ago. It was almost working when the free used
laser I had crapped out. Now that laser diodes cost less than a stick
of gum I wanted to try again. What is the best way to steer the laser?
Piezo crystal or some kind of mirror solution


===

I'm not an expert on piezo crystal optics but I think you'll have more
fun engineering an electromechanical linkage to a mirror. It will
also be more intuitive and use readily available components.


That was my thinking before I started working on laser printers but
these days it is a pretty mature science and those parts may be as
cheap as lasers. I found out the first time down the rabbit hole, you
need a 1st surface mirror. A regular silver on glass mirror creates a
ghost image. I ended up with a dental mirror sans handle, epoxied to a
coil spring with arms going out to 2 small speaker cones 90 degrees
out. The laser I had was a neon, about 1.5" in diameter and a foot
long that needed a HV power supply to spark up. These days you can get
a diode that runs on 4.5vdc. Just about the time I got the geometry
right, my laser broke.
I came up with another laser down here but it was pressed into service
at the flower store and went with the store. That design was still a
little funky and I wanted to try something different.
I really don't believe that in the 70s they were using a crystal tho.
We did us one in a 3800 but it only deflected in one axis.
I may be missing a whole different concept in steering a laser. I
thought Richard may have dabbled in this stuff.


===

I'm assuming you'd need two mirrors - one for X axis positioning and a
second for the Y axis. There are lots of devices with fairly bright
lasers these days. Perhaps you could get one on EBAY or at a garage
sale. Of course you'd need to be happy with either red or green. I've
got some green gun sight lasers that are fairly bright, and there are
lots of laser pointers around that are allegedly bright enough to
blind aircraft pilots.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com


The 2 mirror solution was my first thought and I tried it with regular
mirrors but the glazing caused the ghost problem.
My second swing at it was a single mirror that I could swing in 2 axis
with a spring as a center pivot. That was a 1st surface dental mirror.
Just when I was starting to get results the laser quit and I shelved
the project.
These days the laser is the trivial part. Red and green laser diodes
can be salvaged from old pointers or simply ordered as a part, dirt
cheap. You can also scavenge some very powerful blue lasers from DVD
drives but they are strong enough to be a serious eye hazard.

It has been pointed out to me that you can just get a "visualization"
file for a MP3 player that does this exact thing on a big screen TV.



The only laser "pointer" system I had any participation in (in a small
way) was the 500 terawatt (no typo), 192 beam NIF laser at the Lawrence
Livermore National Laboratory. (LLNL) Many of the beam handling optics
for the laser bay received optical coatings using one of the optical
coaters my company built. We originally built the system for the
Laboratory for Laser Energetics (LLE) at the University of Rochester for
a similar, but smaller, 60 beam laser system. When LLNL solicited
optical coating services to supply the coated optics for NIF, nobody
except the LLE could meet the power and damage specs. It was quite a
feather in our and the Lab for Laser Energetics caps for a while and we
ended up with additional contracts directly with Lawrence Livermore.

Both the NIF laser system and the Omega laser system at the LLE UofR
fire a multi-beam, high power laser from multiple but symmetrical
directions onto a tiny "target", compressing it. In the case of the NIF
system, it creates a nuclear fusion reaction by compressing hydrogen.

High tech stuff that I only understand the surface level of.


  #12   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,961
Default Far OT for my creative friends.

On 1/15/2018 5:21 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/15/2018 4:47 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 13:47:33 -0500,

wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 02:23:21 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 23:37:16 -0500,

wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 22:09:37 -0500,
wrote:

45 years ago I was in a bar in Chicago and they had a laser deal that
plotted the 2 channels of the sound system as a Lissajous pattern on
the back wall.
I tried to make one using an old Neon laser and mirrors on speaker
drivers about 40 years ago. It was almost working when the free used
laser I had crapped out. Now that laser diodes cost less than a stick
of gum I wanted to try again. What is the best way to steer the
laser?
Piezo crystal or some kind of mirror solution


===

I'm not an expert on piezo crystal optics but I think you'll have more
fun engineering an electromechanical linkage to a mirror.Â* It will
also be more intuitive and use readily available components.


That was my thinking before I started working on laser printers but
these days it is a pretty mature science and those parts may be as
cheap as lasers. I found out the first time down the rabbit hole, you
need a 1st surface mirror. A regular silver on glass mirror creates a
ghost image. I ended up with a dental mirror sans handle, epoxied to a
coil spring with arms going out to 2 small speaker cones 90 degrees
out. The laser I had was a neon, about 1.5" in diameter and a foot
long that needed a HV power supply to spark up. These days you can get
a diode that runs on 4.5vdc. Just about the time I got the geometry
right, my laser broke.
I came up with another laser down here but it was pressed into service
at the flower store and went with the store. That design was still a
little funky and I wanted to try something different.
I really don't believe that in the 70s they were using a crystal tho.
We did us one in a 3800 but it only deflected in one axis.
I may be missing a whole different concept in steering a laser. I
thought Richard may have dabbled in this stuff.


===

I'm assuming you'd need two mirrors - one for X axis positioning and a
second for the Y axis.Â* There are lots of devices with fairly bright
lasers these days.Â* Perhaps you could get one on EBAY or at a garage
sale.Â* Of course you'd need to be happy with either red or green. I've
got some green gun sight lasers that are fairly bright, and there are
lots of laser pointers around that are allegedly bright enough to
blind aircraft pilots.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com


The 2 mirror solution was my first thought and I tried it with regular
mirrors but the glazing caused the ghost problem.
My second swing at it was a single mirror that I could swing in 2 axis
with a spring as a center pivot. That was a 1st surface dental mirror.
Just when I was starting to get results the laser quit and I shelved
the project.
These days the laser is the trivial part. Red and green laser diodes
can be salvaged from old pointers or simply ordered as a part, dirt
cheap. You can also scavenge some very powerful blue lasers from DVD
drives but they are strong enough to be a serious eye hazard.

It has been pointed out to me that you can just get a "visualization"
file for a MP3 player that does this exact thing on a big screen TV.



The only laser "pointer" system I had any participation in (in a small
way)Â* was the 500 terawatt (no typo), 192 beam NIF laser at the Lawrence
Livermore National Laboratory. (LLNL)Â* Many of the beam handling optics
for the laser bay received optical coatings using one of the optical
coaters my company built.Â* We originally built the system for the
Laboratory for Laser Energetics (LLE) at the University of Rochester for
a similar, but smaller, 60 beam laser system.Â* When LLNL solicited
optical coating services to supply the coated optics for NIF, nobody
except the LLE could meet the power and damage specs.Â* It was quite a
feather in our and the Lab for Laser Energetics caps for a while and we
ended up with additional contracts directly with Lawrence Livermore.

Both the NIF laser system and the Omega laser system at the LLE UofR
fire a multi-beam, high power laser from multiple but symmetrical
directions onto a tiny "target", compressing it.Â* In the case of the NIF
system, it creates a nuclear fusion reaction by compressing hydrogen.

High tech stuff that I only understand the surface level of.




Forgot a link for those interested in the NIF program:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Ignition_Facility#Driver_laser
  #13   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,961
Default Far OT for my creative friends.

On 1/15/2018 5:10 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 15:59:29 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/15/2018 1:47 PM,
wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 02:23:21 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 23:37:16 -0500,

wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 22:09:37 -0500,
wrote:

45 years ago I was in a bar in Chicago and they had a laser deal that
plotted the 2 channels of the sound system as a Lissajous pattern on
the back wall.
I tried to make one using an old Neon laser and mirrors on speaker
drivers about 40 years ago. It was almost working when the free used
laser I had crapped out. Now that laser diodes cost less than a stick
of gum I wanted to try again. What is the best way to steer the laser?
Piezo crystal or some kind of mirror solution


===

I'm not an expert on piezo crystal optics but I think you'll have more
fun engineering an electromechanical linkage to a mirror. It will
also be more intuitive and use readily available components.


That was my thinking before I started working on laser printers but
these days it is a pretty mature science and those parts may be as
cheap as lasers. I found out the first time down the rabbit hole, you
need a 1st surface mirror. A regular silver on glass mirror creates a
ghost image. I ended up with a dental mirror sans handle, epoxied to a
coil spring with arms going out to 2 small speaker cones 90 degrees
out. The laser I had was a neon, about 1.5" in diameter and a foot
long that needed a HV power supply to spark up. These days you can get
a diode that runs on 4.5vdc. Just about the time I got the geometry
right, my laser broke.
I came up with another laser down here but it was pressed into service
at the flower store and went with the store. That design was still a
little funky and I wanted to try something different.
I really don't believe that in the 70s they were using a crystal tho.
We did us one in a 3800 but it only deflected in one axis.
I may be missing a whole different concept in steering a laser. I
thought Richard may have dabbled in this stuff.


===

I'm assuming you'd need two mirrors - one for X axis positioning and a
second for the Y axis. There are lots of devices with fairly bright
lasers these days. Perhaps you could get one on EBAY or at a garage
sale. Of course you'd need to be happy with either red or green. I've
got some green gun sight lasers that are fairly bright, and there are
lots of laser pointers around that are allegedly bright enough to
blind aircraft pilots.



Greg: Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwawj0A8P6w


That was where the 2 lasers I scored once I moved here went. We did a
similar thing to that with mirrored flower containers on turn tables
for the Cooper Group (major Holiday In franchiser) at big 3 day
conference they had here in Ft Myers. Judy had the contract for
decorating at the conference when we had the flower store. One of the
containers was a big hex shaped thing (6 mirrors) and the other was a
disco ball sort of thing on a big cylinder. By positioning the lasers
right we had beams bouncing around the whole room. A little tobacco
smoke really got it going.
The staff decided a smoke machine would really be cool and they had
one in their disco. What they didn't know is the smoke detectors in
the disco were disabled.
Imagine a bunch of Cooper Group executives standing in the parking lot
in their underwear at 5AM (most with a hangover) waiting for the South
Trail Fire Department to tell them it was a false alarm.
They kept the lasers, they lost the smoke machine,



I imagine it would be fun to build, especially for someone with your
interests but I bought a programmable, multi-pattern laser projector
(actually, high powered LEDs) for the stage we had at the guitar/music
shop. It worked amazingly well and only cost about $80. It had a
microphone in it as well so the display could react to the music being
played if desired. Couple of times I combined it with a fog machine
that really made it look cool. Got sick of the fog smell though.


  #15   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Dec 2017
Posts: 225
Default Far OT for my creative friends.

John H wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 13:47:33 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 02:23:21 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 23:37:16 -0500,

wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 22:09:37 -0500,
wrote:

45 years ago I was in a bar in Chicago and they had a laser deal that
plotted the 2 channels of the sound system as a Lissajous pattern on
the back wall.
I tried to make one using an old Neon laser and mirrors on speaker
drivers about 40 years ago. It was almost working when the free used
laser I had crapped out. Now that laser diodes cost less than a stick
of gum I wanted to try again. What is the best way to steer the laser?
Piezo crystal or some kind of mirror solution

===

I'm not an expert on piezo crystal optics but I think you'll have more
fun engineering an electromechanical linkage to a mirror. It will
also be more intuitive and use readily available components.

That was my thinking before I started working on laser printers but
these days it is a pretty mature science and those parts may be as
cheap as lasers. I found out the first time down the rabbit hole, you
need a 1st surface mirror. A regular silver on glass mirror creates a
ghost image. I ended up with a dental mirror sans handle, epoxied to a
coil spring with arms going out to 2 small speaker cones 90 degrees
out. The laser I had was a neon, about 1.5" in diameter and a foot
long that needed a HV power supply to spark up. These days you can get
a diode that runs on 4.5vdc. Just about the time I got the geometry
right, my laser broke.
I came up with another laser down here but it was pressed into service
at the flower store and went with the store. That design was still a
little funky and I wanted to try something different.
I really don't believe that in the 70s they were using a crystal tho.
We did us one in a 3800 but it only deflected in one axis.
I may be missing a whole different concept in steering a laser. I
thought Richard may have dabbled in this stuff.

===

I'm assuming you'd need two mirrors - one for X axis positioning and a
second for the Y axis. There are lots of devices with fairly bright
lasers these days. Perhaps you could get one on EBAY or at a garage
sale. Of course you'd need to be happy with either red or green. I've
got some green gun sight lasers that are fairly bright, and there are
lots of laser pointers around that are allegedly bright enough to
blind aircraft pilots.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

Greg could buy this for me. I'd take out the laser and send it to him -- free!

http://www.kimberamerica.com/micro-9-cc

Such a deal!



Over $100 off MSRP here but I'm sure you can find it cheaper!

https://www.eurooptic.com/KIMBER-330...m--330010.aspx


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posted to rec.boats
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,637
Default Far OT for my creative friends.

On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 18:48:43 -0500, Alex wrote:

John H wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 13:47:33 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 02:23:21 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 23:37:16 -0500,

wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 22:09:37 -0500,
wrote:

45 years ago I was in a bar in Chicago and they had a laser deal that
plotted the 2 channels of the sound system as a Lissajous pattern on
the back wall.
I tried to make one using an old Neon laser and mirrors on speaker
drivers about 40 years ago. It was almost working when the free used
laser I had crapped out. Now that laser diodes cost less than a stick
of gum I wanted to try again. What is the best way to steer the laser?
Piezo crystal or some kind of mirror solution

===

I'm not an expert on piezo crystal optics but I think you'll have more
fun engineering an electromechanical linkage to a mirror. It will
also be more intuitive and use readily available components.

That was my thinking before I started working on laser printers but
these days it is a pretty mature science and those parts may be as
cheap as lasers. I found out the first time down the rabbit hole, you
need a 1st surface mirror. A regular silver on glass mirror creates a
ghost image. I ended up with a dental mirror sans handle, epoxied to a
coil spring with arms going out to 2 small speaker cones 90 degrees
out. The laser I had was a neon, about 1.5" in diameter and a foot
long that needed a HV power supply to spark up. These days you can get
a diode that runs on 4.5vdc. Just about the time I got the geometry
right, my laser broke.
I came up with another laser down here but it was pressed into service
at the flower store and went with the store. That design was still a
little funky and I wanted to try something different.
I really don't believe that in the 70s they were using a crystal tho.
We did us one in a 3800 but it only deflected in one axis.
I may be missing a whole different concept in steering a laser. I
thought Richard may have dabbled in this stuff.

===

I'm assuming you'd need two mirrors - one for X axis positioning and a
second for the Y axis. There are lots of devices with fairly bright
lasers these days. Perhaps you could get one on EBAY or at a garage
sale. Of course you'd need to be happy with either red or green. I've
got some green gun sight lasers that are fairly bright, and there are
lots of laser pointers around that are allegedly bright enough to
blind aircraft pilots.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

Greg could buy this for me. I'd take out the laser and send it to him -- free!

http://www.kimberamerica.com/micro-9-cc

Such a deal!



Over $100 off MSRP here but I'm sure you can find it cheaper!

https://www.eurooptic.com/KIMBER-330...m--330010.aspx


No way would I ever buy one. I see people at the range with those things and laugh my ass off.
They'll shine them at a target and watch them bounce around. In a few seconds they must get
embarrassed and shut 'em off. Never to be seen again.
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jul 2007
Posts: 36,387
Default Far OT for my creative friends.

On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 18:54:03 -0500, John H
wrote:


No way would I ever buy one. I see people at the range with those things and laugh my ass off.
They'll shine them at a target and watch them bounce around. In a few seconds they must get
embarrassed and shut 'em off. Never to be seen again.


Lasers are not intended for slow fire bullseye shooting. They are
really for quick point and shoot situations or times when you can't
establish your normal hold or sight picture. (weak hand shooting from
behind cover or something)
I had one on my Ruger KP90 for a while and took it off. It seemed like
more of a distraction than a help. This was an early one that did not
really have great switch operation tho. I forgot about it until now.
That might be a good laser to play with for this project.

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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jul 2007
Posts: 36,387
Default Far OT for my creative friends.

On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 20:45:21 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 1/15/18 8:32 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 18:24:22 -0500,

wrote:


It has been pointed out to me that you can just get a "visualization"
file for a MP3 player that does this exact thing on a big screen TV.

===

Yes, but it wouldn't synchronize with your music.


Why not if it was the MP3 player generating the visualization?
That is what visualizations are. Usually they are so complex the
linkage to the music is not immediately apparent.



Don't forget the water fountains that are synchronized to the Muzak, er,
music, that you enjoy.


That is another strange thing that fascinates me. I have thought about
trying to make something like that for the pool since I have a pump
going anyway. The trick is finding valves that open and close fast
enough. The diaphragm valves in washing machines, sprinkler systems
and ice makers won't cut it.
I don't know if Wayne noticed it but I am roughed in for a fountain or
waterfall sort of thing in a corner of the pool already. There us an
additional 2" and 3/4" pipe going there, in addition to a return from
the pool pump that is on a valve now. (pipe is cheap and easy to put
in when the ground is open. Later not so much)

I did make a water cannon (Bellagio style) that would shoot a quart
sized slug of water across the river once for my neighbor. He wanted
to wet down people speeding in the no wake. He never actually had the
chance to use it tho. The diaphragm style 1" sprinkler valve was fine
for that but I was unloading a tank of air, not the water itself. The
water was sitting in a pipe in the river. A couple of cubic feet of
100 PSI air gave it quite a ride. Thanks to "Modern Marvels" I found
out that is how Bellagio does it.
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