On 1/4/2018 1:07 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 12:42:29 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 08:54:03 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 17:19:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/3/2018 2:28 PM, Its Me wrote:
Light flurries now, the predictions range from a dusting to 1-2 inches. Worse the closer to the coast you get. My BIL at James Island (Charleston) sent a picture earlier of maybe 1/4 inch and still falling. Very unusual for them.

It's out of here in a few hours and headed up the coast. Good luck!



Damn. I was hoping it would dump a foot in Mt. Pleasant, just to shut
my son up.

Last I heard it is supposed to "explode" as it comes up the coast,
becoming essentially a winter hurricane.

"Bombogenesis" is the technical term, and the popular "bomb cyclone" is a shortened version of it,
according to our weather folks.

They do seem to just make up names for things these days. I think the
classic was "Super Storm Sandy" to talk about something that was not
even a hurricane, it was just "super" for people who were not used to
tropical weather.
It is far from unprecedented tho. There was a real Cat 3 there in the
30s.
I have certainly seen that weather pattern in DC tho and this is not
even the worst case. The snow would actually be more of a problem if
the "eye" of that low was farther west so your wind was drawing wet
gulf stream air up into the cold front north of you. That is what
gives DC over a foot of snow a day and if it stalls, you
"Knickerbocker" snow.


Up here a Cat 1 hurricane in the summer might be preferable over what is
going on right now. When you look at this storm on radar it is
developing a very defined rotation as it is winding up and getting
bigger. Snowfall rate here is 2-3 inches/hr and the temp is dropping
like a rock since this morning. Pretty much a white-out out there.

Major flooding in Justin's former town with 4 disabled cars with people
trapped inside, one a woman with 2 kids. Water is over the wheel wells.
Fire and National Guard are responding.

My old stomping grounds in Scituate is really getting clobbered ...
worst in over 30 years despite improvements in sea walls, etc. A TV
reporter nut was standing on the porch of a house about 30 feet from the
seawall and he was getting soaked with spray, along with dodging sea ice
that is being thrown up onto the roofs of houses.

So far we haven't had any power glitches here but I fully expect we'll
lose it in the next hour or so. Wind where I am is gusting 55-60 mph.

Best of luck in all that. I think I'd be getting out the extension cords and prioritizing my
electricity requirements!


Did that yesterday ... that's why I was firing up the Honda to test.

I have a new plan. If power goes out I am going to shut off the main
breaker and then backfeed the generator output through a 15 amp outlet
that's in the shed. It's on the same branch of the split 240v house
supply as the furnace and a couple of rooms. All my lighting is LED, so
that's a tiny load. The generator will run those plus the furnace
system with no problem and I don't need to have extension cords running
anywhere.

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 12:42:29 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/4/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 08:54:03 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 17:19:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/3/2018 2:28 PM, Its Me wrote:
Light flurries now, the predictions range from a dusting to 1-2 inches. Worse the closer to the coast you get. My BIL at James Island (Charleston) sent a picture earlier of maybe 1/4 inch and still falling. Very unusual for them.

It's out of here in a few hours and headed up the coast. Good luck!



Damn. I was hoping it would dump a foot in Mt. Pleasant, just to shut
my son up.

Last I heard it is supposed to "explode" as it comes up the coast,
becoming essentially a winter hurricane.

"Bombogenesis" is the technical term, and the popular "bomb cyclone" is a shortened version of it,
according to our weather folks.

They do seem to just make up names for things these days. I think the
classic was "Super Storm Sandy" to talk about something that was not
even a hurricane, it was just "super" for people who were not used to
tropical weather.
It is far from unprecedented tho. There was a real Cat 3 there in the
30s.
I have certainly seen that weather pattern in DC tho and this is not
even the worst case. The snow would actually be more of a problem if
the "eye" of that low was farther west so your wind was drawing wet
gulf stream air up into the cold front north of you. That is what
gives DC over a foot of snow a day and if it stalls, you
"Knickerbocker" snow.


Up here a Cat 1 hurricane in the summer might be preferable over what is
going on right now. When you look at this storm on radar it is
developing a very defined rotation as it is winding up and getting
bigger. Snowfall rate here is 2-3 inches/hr and the temp is dropping
like a rock since this morning. Pretty much a white-out out there.

Major flooding in Justin's former town with 4 disabled cars with people
trapped inside, one a woman with 2 kids. Water is over the wheel wells.
Fire and National Guard are responding.

My old stomping grounds in Scituate is really getting clobbered ...
worst in over 30 years despite improvements in sea walls, etc. A TV
reporter nut was standing on the porch of a house about 30 feet from the
seawall and he was getting soaked with spray, along with dodging sea ice
that is being thrown up onto the roofs of houses.

So far we haven't had any power glitches here but I fully expect we'll
lose it in the next hour or so. Wind where I am is gusting 55-60 mph.

We saw that on the news here. They were pointing out that this
certainly looked "tropical".

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:16:34 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/4/2018 1:07 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 12:42:29 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 08:54:03 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 17:19:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/3/2018 2:28 PM, Its Me wrote:
Light flurries now, the predictions range from a dusting to 1-2 inches. Worse the closer to the coast you get. My BIL at James Island (Charleston) sent a picture earlier of maybe 1/4 inch and still falling. Very unusual for them.

It's out of here in a few hours and headed up the coast. Good luck!



Damn. I was hoping it would dump a foot in Mt. Pleasant, just to shut
my son up.

Last I heard it is supposed to "explode" as it comes up the coast,
becoming essentially a winter hurricane.

"Bombogenesis" is the technical term, and the popular "bomb cyclone" is a shortened version of it,
according to our weather folks.

They do seem to just make up names for things these days. I think the
classic was "Super Storm Sandy" to talk about something that was not
even a hurricane, it was just "super" for people who were not used to
tropical weather.
It is far from unprecedented tho. There was a real Cat 3 there in the
30s.
I have certainly seen that weather pattern in DC tho and this is not
even the worst case. The snow would actually be more of a problem if
the "eye" of that low was farther west so your wind was drawing wet
gulf stream air up into the cold front north of you. That is what
gives DC over a foot of snow a day and if it stalls, you
"Knickerbocker" snow.


Up here a Cat 1 hurricane in the summer might be preferable over what is
going on right now. When you look at this storm on radar it is
developing a very defined rotation as it is winding up and getting
bigger. Snowfall rate here is 2-3 inches/hr and the temp is dropping
like a rock since this morning. Pretty much a white-out out there.

Major flooding in Justin's former town with 4 disabled cars with people
trapped inside, one a woman with 2 kids. Water is over the wheel wells.
Fire and National Guard are responding.

My old stomping grounds in Scituate is really getting clobbered ...
worst in over 30 years despite improvements in sea walls, etc. A TV
reporter nut was standing on the porch of a house about 30 feet from the
seawall and he was getting soaked with spray, along with dodging sea ice
that is being thrown up onto the roofs of houses.

So far we haven't had any power glitches here but I fully expect we'll
lose it in the next hour or so. Wind where I am is gusting 55-60 mph.

Best of luck in all that. I think I'd be getting out the extension cords and prioritizing my
electricity requirements!


Did that yesterday ... that's why I was firing up the Honda to test.

I have a new plan. If power goes out I am going to shut off the main
breaker and then backfeed the generator output through a 15 amp outlet
that's in the shed. It's on the same branch of the split 240v house
supply as the furnace and a couple of rooms. All my lighting is LED, so
that's a tiny load. The generator will run those plus the furnace
system with no problem and I don't need to have extension cords running
anywhere.


I would trip the 240v breakers if you do that. You can back feed the
other side through the load if you don't and that is not a good thing.
You may not actually have any 240v stuff tho if your big stuff is
fossil.

On 1/4/2018 2:13 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:16:34 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/4/2018 1:07 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 12:42:29 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 08:54:03 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 17:19:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/3/2018 2:28 PM, Its Me wrote:
Light flurries now, the predictions range from a dusting to 1-2 inches. Worse the closer to the coast you get. My BIL at James Island (Charleston) sent a picture earlier of maybe 1/4 inch and still falling. Very unusual for them.

It's out of here in a few hours and headed up the coast. Good luck!



Damn. I was hoping it would dump a foot in Mt. Pleasant, just to shut
my son up.

Last I heard it is supposed to "explode" as it comes up the coast,
becoming essentially a winter hurricane.

"Bombogenesis" is the technical term, and the popular "bomb cyclone" is a shortened version of it,
according to our weather folks.

They do seem to just make up names for things these days. I think the
classic was "Super Storm Sandy" to talk about something that was not
even a hurricane, it was just "super" for people who were not used to
tropical weather.
It is far from unprecedented tho. There was a real Cat 3 there in the
30s.
I have certainly seen that weather pattern in DC tho and this is not
even the worst case. The snow would actually be more of a problem if
the "eye" of that low was farther west so your wind was drawing wet
gulf stream air up into the cold front north of you. That is what
gives DC over a foot of snow a day and if it stalls, you
"Knickerbocker" snow.


Up here a Cat 1 hurricane in the summer might be preferable over what is
going on right now. When you look at this storm on radar it is
developing a very defined rotation as it is winding up and getting
bigger. Snowfall rate here is 2-3 inches/hr and the temp is dropping
like a rock since this morning. Pretty much a white-out out there.

Major flooding in Justin's former town with 4 disabled cars with people
trapped inside, one a woman with 2 kids. Water is over the wheel wells.
Fire and National Guard are responding.

My old stomping grounds in Scituate is really getting clobbered ...
worst in over 30 years despite improvements in sea walls, etc. A TV
reporter nut was standing on the porch of a house about 30 feet from the
seawall and he was getting soaked with spray, along with dodging sea ice
that is being thrown up onto the roofs of houses.

So far we haven't had any power glitches here but I fully expect we'll
lose it in the next hour or so. Wind where I am is gusting 55-60 mph.

Best of luck in all that. I think I'd be getting out the extension cords and prioritizing my
electricity requirements!


Did that yesterday ... that's why I was firing up the Honda to test.

I have a new plan. If power goes out I am going to shut off the main
breaker and then backfeed the generator output through a 15 amp outlet
that's in the shed. It's on the same branch of the split 240v house
supply as the furnace and a couple of rooms. All my lighting is LED, so
that's a tiny load. The generator will run those plus the furnace
system with no problem and I don't need to have extension cords running
anywhere.


I would trip the 240v breakers if you do that. You can back feed the
other side through the load if you don't and that is not a good thing.
You may not actually have any 240v stuff tho if your big stuff is
fossil.



That goes without saying but maybe I should have mentioned it. Besides
the main, I will shut off *all* the breakers including the 240v AC,
water heater and stove. Then, I'll turn on the 15 amp breaker that
feeds the shed, the 15 amp breaker that feeds the furnace and one or two
others *if* they are on the same leg of the 240 service.

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:16:34 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 1:07 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 12:42:29 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 08:54:03 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 17:19:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/3/2018 2:28 PM, Its Me wrote:
Light flurries now, the predictions range from a dusting to 1-2 inches. Worse the closer to the coast you get. My BIL at James Island (Charleston) sent a picture earlier of maybe 1/4 inch and still falling. Very unusual for them.

It's out of here in a few hours and headed up the coast. Good luck!



Damn. I was hoping it would dump a foot in Mt. Pleasant, just to shut
my son up.

Last I heard it is supposed to "explode" as it comes up the coast,
becoming essentially a winter hurricane.

"Bombogenesis" is the technical term, and the popular "bomb cyclone" is a shortened version of it,
according to our weather folks.

They do seem to just make up names for things these days. I think the
classic was "Super Storm Sandy" to talk about something that was not
even a hurricane, it was just "super" for people who were not used to
tropical weather.
It is far from unprecedented tho. There was a real Cat 3 there in the
30s.
I have certainly seen that weather pattern in DC tho and this is not
even the worst case. The snow would actually be more of a problem if
the "eye" of that low was farther west so your wind was drawing wet
gulf stream air up into the cold front north of you. That is what
gives DC over a foot of snow a day and if it stalls, you
"Knickerbocker" snow.


Up here a Cat 1 hurricane in the summer might be preferable over what is
going on right now. When you look at this storm on radar it is
developing a very defined rotation as it is winding up and getting
bigger. Snowfall rate here is 2-3 inches/hr and the temp is dropping
like a rock since this morning. Pretty much a white-out out there.

Major flooding in Justin's former town with 4 disabled cars with people
trapped inside, one a woman with 2 kids. Water is over the wheel wells.
Fire and National Guard are responding.

My old stomping grounds in Scituate is really getting clobbered ...
worst in over 30 years despite improvements in sea walls, etc. A TV
reporter nut was standing on the porch of a house about 30 feet from the
seawall and he was getting soaked with spray, along with dodging sea ice
that is being thrown up onto the roofs of houses.

So far we haven't had any power glitches here but I fully expect we'll
lose it in the next hour or so. Wind where I am is gusting 55-60 mph.

Best of luck in all that. I think I'd be getting out the extension cords and prioritizing my
electricity requirements!


Did that yesterday ... that's why I was firing up the Honda to test.

I have a new plan. If power goes out I am going to shut off the main
breaker and then backfeed the generator output through a 15 amp outlet
that's in the shed. It's on the same branch of the split 240v house
supply as the furnace and a couple of rooms. All my lighting is LED, so
that's a tiny load. The generator will run those plus the furnace
system with no problem and I don't need to have extension cords running
anywhere.


Well, you know more about electricity than I do. That's something I'd never try. Came across this
while looking for info. Don't know if it'll help or you already have it down.

http://www.tcscooters.com/backfeed.htm

I like steps 1-3:

If you are going to backfeed your home, you must be very carefully and follow the directions below.
If you fail to follow them you can kill a line worker, kill yourself or blow up your generator.
Again I'll say, get a licensed electrician.

Step One, the most important step of all is to turn off the main breakers.
Step two, turn off the main breakers.
Step three, turn off the main breakers. Do you get the idea?
Step four, remember to plug the generator end in last. If the generator is running and you are using
two male ends the house end plug is live!

On 1/4/2018 2:53 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:16:34 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 1:07 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 12:42:29 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 08:54:03 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 17:19:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/3/2018 2:28 PM, Its Me wrote:
Light flurries now, the predictions range from a dusting to 1-2 inches. Worse the closer to the coast you get. My BIL at James Island (Charleston) sent a picture earlier of maybe 1/4 inch and still falling. Very unusual for them.

It's out of here in a few hours and headed up the coast. Good luck!



Damn. I was hoping it would dump a foot in Mt. Pleasant, just to shut
my son up.

Last I heard it is supposed to "explode" as it comes up the coast,
becoming essentially a winter hurricane.

"Bombogenesis" is the technical term, and the popular "bomb cyclone" is a shortened version of it,
according to our weather folks.

They do seem to just make up names for things these days. I think the
classic was "Super Storm Sandy" to talk about something that was not
even a hurricane, it was just "super" for people who were not used to
tropical weather.
It is far from unprecedented tho. There was a real Cat 3 there in the
30s.
I have certainly seen that weather pattern in DC tho and this is not
even the worst case. The snow would actually be more of a problem if
the "eye" of that low was farther west so your wind was drawing wet
gulf stream air up into the cold front north of you. That is what
gives DC over a foot of snow a day and if it stalls, you
"Knickerbocker" snow.


Up here a Cat 1 hurricane in the summer might be preferable over what is
going on right now. When you look at this storm on radar it is
developing a very defined rotation as it is winding up and getting
bigger. Snowfall rate here is 2-3 inches/hr and the temp is dropping
like a rock since this morning. Pretty much a white-out out there.

Major flooding in Justin's former town with 4 disabled cars with people
trapped inside, one a woman with 2 kids. Water is over the wheel wells.
Fire and National Guard are responding.

My old stomping grounds in Scituate is really getting clobbered ...
worst in over 30 years despite improvements in sea walls, etc. A TV
reporter nut was standing on the porch of a house about 30 feet from the
seawall and he was getting soaked with spray, along with dodging sea ice
that is being thrown up onto the roofs of houses.

So far we haven't had any power glitches here but I fully expect we'll
lose it in the next hour or so. Wind where I am is gusting 55-60 mph.

Best of luck in all that. I think I'd be getting out the extension cords and prioritizing my
electricity requirements!


Did that yesterday ... that's why I was firing up the Honda to test.

I have a new plan. If power goes out I am going to shut off the main
breaker and then backfeed the generator output through a 15 amp outlet
that's in the shed. It's on the same branch of the split 240v house
supply as the furnace and a couple of rooms. All my lighting is LED, so
that's a tiny load. The generator will run those plus the furnace
system with no problem and I don't need to have extension cords running
anywhere.


Well, you know more about electricity than I do. That's something I'd never try. Came across this
while looking for info. Don't know if it'll help or you already have it down.

http://www.tcscooters.com/backfeed.htm

I like steps 1-3:

If you are going to backfeed your home, you must be very carefully and follow the directions below.
If you fail to follow them you can kill a line worker, kill yourself or blow up your generator.
Again I'll say, get a licensed electrician.

Step One, the most important step of all is to turn off the main breakers.
Step two, turn off the main breakers.
Step three, turn off the main breakers. Do you get the idea?
Step four, remember to plug the generator end in last. If the generator is running and you are using
two male ends the house end plug is live!



I definitely agree that not everyone should do this. The best way is to
have an automatic transfer box installed to code by a licensed electrician.

That said, I've done this several times, including the house we had in
Florida after Wilma. I have sufficient knowledge of what I am doing but
even so, I stop, check and re-check before firing up the generator and
throwing the breaker that it backfeeds through.

It's illegal, but safe if you pay attention and know something about
house wiring.

Here's a little test that I've even tried on licensed electricians to
see how knowledgeable they a

Your house service is usually 240vac, split phase. Split phase means
two "hot" leads, a neutral (used with both hot legs) and a ground (which
really is tied to the neutral leg. Across the two "hot" leads you have
240 volts which is used for stoves, large AC units, etc. Between either
hot lead and neutral you have 120 volts which is used for your outlets,
lighting, refrig and small appliances. Your panel box is supposed to be
wired to balance the loads as best as possible. So, here's the
question. Let's say:

Leg "A" of the 120 volt supply is drawing 40 amps.
Leg "B" of the 120 volt supply is drawing 30 amps.

How much current is flowing through the common neutral leg that is used
for both legs?

The answer is 10 amps.

Many people assume it is the sum of both current draws or 70 amps in
this example and it's amazing how many "electricians" don't know that.
They don't realize that the two "hot" legs are 180 degrees out of phase,
so the current in the neutral adds algebraically.

That's why the neutral feed from the street to your power panel is the
same size wire as the two hot leads. It will never carry more than what
one hot leg is rated to draw.

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 15:23:28 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 2:53 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:16:34 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 1:07 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 12:42:29 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 08:54:03 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 17:19:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/3/2018 2:28 PM, Its Me wrote:
Light flurries now, the predictions range from a dusting to 1-2 inches. Worse the closer to the coast you get. My BIL at James Island (Charleston) sent a picture earlier of maybe 1/4 inch and still falling. Very unusual for them.

It's out of here in a few hours and headed up the coast. Good luck!



Damn. I was hoping it would dump a foot in Mt. Pleasant, just to shut
my son up.

Last I heard it is supposed to "explode" as it comes up the coast,
becoming essentially a winter hurricane.

"Bombogenesis" is the technical term, and the popular "bomb cyclone" is a shortened version of it,
according to our weather folks.

They do seem to just make up names for things these days. I think the
classic was "Super Storm Sandy" to talk about something that was not
even a hurricane, it was just "super" for people who were not used to
tropical weather.
It is far from unprecedented tho. There was a real Cat 3 there in the
30s.
I have certainly seen that weather pattern in DC tho and this is not
even the worst case. The snow would actually be more of a problem if
the "eye" of that low was farther west so your wind was drawing wet
gulf stream air up into the cold front north of you. That is what
gives DC over a foot of snow a day and if it stalls, you
"Knickerbocker" snow.


Up here a Cat 1 hurricane in the summer might be preferable over what is
going on right now. When you look at this storm on radar it is
developing a very defined rotation as it is winding up and getting
bigger. Snowfall rate here is 2-3 inches/hr and the temp is dropping
like a rock since this morning. Pretty much a white-out out there.

Major flooding in Justin's former town with 4 disabled cars with people
trapped inside, one a woman with 2 kids. Water is over the wheel wells.
Fire and National Guard are responding.

My old stomping grounds in Scituate is really getting clobbered ...
worst in over 30 years despite improvements in sea walls, etc. A TV
reporter nut was standing on the porch of a house about 30 feet from the
seawall and he was getting soaked with spray, along with dodging sea ice
that is being thrown up onto the roofs of houses.

So far we haven't had any power glitches here but I fully expect we'll
lose it in the next hour or so. Wind where I am is gusting 55-60 mph.

Best of luck in all that. I think I'd be getting out the extension cords and prioritizing my
electricity requirements!


Did that yesterday ... that's why I was firing up the Honda to test.

I have a new plan. If power goes out I am going to shut off the main
breaker and then backfeed the generator output through a 15 amp outlet
that's in the shed. It's on the same branch of the split 240v house
supply as the furnace and a couple of rooms. All my lighting is LED, so
that's a tiny load. The generator will run those plus the furnace
system with no problem and I don't need to have extension cords running
anywhere.


Well, you know more about electricity than I do. That's something I'd never try. Came across this
while looking for info. Don't know if it'll help or you already have it down.

http://www.tcscooters.com/backfeed.htm

I like steps 1-3:

If you are going to backfeed your home, you must be very carefully and follow the directions below.
If you fail to follow them you can kill a line worker, kill yourself or blow up your generator.
Again I'll say, get a licensed electrician.

Step One, the most important step of all is to turn off the main breakers.
Step two, turn off the main breakers.
Step three, turn off the main breakers. Do you get the idea?
Step four, remember to plug the generator end in last. If the generator is running and you are using
two male ends the house end plug is live!



I definitely agree that not everyone should do this. The best way is to
have an automatic transfer box installed to code by a licensed electrician.

That said, I've done this several times, including the house we had in
Florida after Wilma. I have sufficient knowledge of what I am doing but
even so, I stop, check and re-check before firing up the generator and
throwing the breaker that it backfeeds through.

It's illegal, but safe if you pay attention and know something about
house wiring.

Here's a little test that I've even tried on licensed electricians to
see how knowledgeable they a

Your house service is usually 240vac, split phase. Split phase means
two "hot" leads, a neutral (used with both hot legs) and a ground (which
really is tied to the neutral leg. Across the two "hot" leads you have
240 volts which is used for stoves, large AC units, etc. Between either
hot lead and neutral you have 120 volts which is used for your outlets,
lighting, refrig and small appliances. Your panel box is supposed to be
wired to balance the loads as best as possible. So, here's the
question. Let's say:

Leg "A" of the 120 volt supply is drawing 40 amps.
Leg "B" of the 120 volt supply is drawing 30 amps.

How much current is flowing through the common neutral leg that is used
for both legs?

The answer is 10 amps.

Many people assume it is the sum of both current draws or 70 amps in
this example and it's amazing how many "electricians" don't know that.
They don't realize that the two "hot" legs are 180 degrees out of phase,
so the current in the neutral adds algebraically.

That's why the neutral feed from the street to your power panel is the
same size wire as the two hot leads. It will never carry more than what
one hot leg is rated to draw.

I would have guessed 35. But, that's just proof of how little I know about electricity, off the top
of my head.

Harry would have got it right.

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 3:23:33 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/4/2018 2:53 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:16:34 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 1:07 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 12:42:29 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 08:54:03 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 17:19:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/3/2018 2:28 PM, Its Me wrote:
Light flurries now, the predictions range from a dusting to 1-2 inches. Worse the closer to the coast you get. My BIL at James Island (Charleston) sent a picture earlier of maybe 1/4 inch and still falling. Very unusual for them.

It's out of here in a few hours and headed up the coast. Good luck!



Damn. I was hoping it would dump a foot in Mt. Pleasant, just to shut
my son up.

Last I heard it is supposed to "explode" as it comes up the coast,
becoming essentially a winter hurricane.

"Bombogenesis" is the technical term, and the popular "bomb cyclone" is a shortened version of it,
according to our weather folks.

They do seem to just make up names for things these days. I think the
classic was "Super Storm Sandy" to talk about something that was not
even a hurricane, it was just "super" for people who were not used to
tropical weather.
It is far from unprecedented tho. There was a real Cat 3 there in the
30s.
I have certainly seen that weather pattern in DC tho and this is not
even the worst case. The snow would actually be more of a problem if
the "eye" of that low was farther west so your wind was drawing wet
gulf stream air up into the cold front north of you. That is what
gives DC over a foot of snow a day and if it stalls, you
"Knickerbocker" snow.


Up here a Cat 1 hurricane in the summer might be preferable over what is
going on right now. When you look at this storm on radar it is
developing a very defined rotation as it is winding up and getting
bigger. Snowfall rate here is 2-3 inches/hr and the temp is dropping
like a rock since this morning. Pretty much a white-out out there.

Major flooding in Justin's former town with 4 disabled cars with people
trapped inside, one a woman with 2 kids. Water is over the wheel wells.
Fire and National Guard are responding.

My old stomping grounds in Scituate is really getting clobbered ...
worst in over 30 years despite improvements in sea walls, etc. A TV
reporter nut was standing on the porch of a house about 30 feet from the
seawall and he was getting soaked with spray, along with dodging sea ice
that is being thrown up onto the roofs of houses.

So far we haven't had any power glitches here but I fully expect we'll
lose it in the next hour or so. Wind where I am is gusting 55-60 mph.

Best of luck in all that. I think I'd be getting out the extension cords and prioritizing my
electricity requirements!


Did that yesterday ... that's why I was firing up the Honda to test.

I have a new plan. If power goes out I am going to shut off the main
breaker and then backfeed the generator output through a 15 amp outlet
that's in the shed. It's on the same branch of the split 240v house
supply as the furnace and a couple of rooms. All my lighting is LED, so
that's a tiny load. The generator will run those plus the furnace
system with no problem and I don't need to have extension cords running
anywhere.


Well, you know more about electricity than I do. That's something I'd never try. Came across this
while looking for info. Don't know if it'll help or you already have it down.

http://www.tcscooters.com/backfeed.htm

I like steps 1-3:

If you are going to backfeed your home, you must be very carefully and follow the directions below.
If you fail to follow them you can kill a line worker, kill yourself or blow up your generator.
Again I'll say, get a licensed electrician.

Step One, the most important step of all is to turn off the main breakers.
Step two, turn off the main breakers.
Step three, turn off the main breakers. Do you get the idea?
Step four, remember to plug the generator end in last. If the generator is running and you are using
two male ends the house end plug is live!



I definitely agree that not everyone should do this. The best way is to
have an automatic transfer box installed to code by a licensed electrician.

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 14:38:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/4/2018 2:13 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:16:34 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/4/2018 1:07 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 12:42:29 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 08:54:03 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 17:19:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/3/2018 2:28 PM, Its Me wrote:
Light flurries now, the predictions range from a dusting to 1-2 inches. Worse the closer to the coast you get. My BIL at James Island (Charleston) sent a picture earlier of maybe 1/4 inch and still falling. Very unusual for them.

It's out of here in a few hours and headed up the coast. Good luck!



Damn. I was hoping it would dump a foot in Mt. Pleasant, just to shut
my son up.

Last I heard it is supposed to "explode" as it comes up the coast,
becoming essentially a winter hurricane.

"Bombogenesis" is the technical term, and the popular "bomb cyclone" is a shortened version of it,
according to our weather folks.

They do seem to just make up names for things these days. I think the
classic was "Super Storm Sandy" to talk about something that was not
even a hurricane, it was just "super" for people who were not used to
tropical weather.
It is far from unprecedented tho. There was a real Cat 3 there in the
30s.
I have certainly seen that weather pattern in DC tho and this is not
even the worst case. The snow would actually be more of a problem if
the "eye" of that low was farther west so your wind was drawing wet
gulf stream air up into the cold front north of you. That is what
gives DC over a foot of snow a day and if it stalls, you
"Knickerbocker" snow.


Up here a Cat 1 hurricane in the summer might be preferable over what is
going on right now. When you look at this storm on radar it is
developing a very defined rotation as it is winding up and getting
bigger. Snowfall rate here is 2-3 inches/hr and the temp is dropping
like a rock since this morning. Pretty much a white-out out there.

Major flooding in Justin's former town with 4 disabled cars with people
trapped inside, one a woman with 2 kids. Water is over the wheel wells.
Fire and National Guard are responding.

My old stomping grounds in Scituate is really getting clobbered ...
worst in over 30 years despite improvements in sea walls, etc. A TV
reporter nut was standing on the porch of a house about 30 feet from the
seawall and he was getting soaked with spray, along with dodging sea ice
that is being thrown up onto the roofs of houses.

So far we haven't had any power glitches here but I fully expect we'll
lose it in the next hour or so. Wind where I am is gusting 55-60 mph.

Best of luck in all that. I think I'd be getting out the extension cords and prioritizing my
electricity requirements!


Did that yesterday ... that's why I was firing up the Honda to test.

I have a new plan. If power goes out I am going to shut off the main
breaker and then backfeed the generator output through a 15 amp outlet
that's in the shed. It's on the same branch of the split 240v house
supply as the furnace and a couple of rooms. All my lighting is LED, so
that's a tiny load. The generator will run those plus the furnace
system with no problem and I don't need to have extension cords running
anywhere.


I would trip the 240v breakers if you do that. You can back feed the
other side through the load if you don't and that is not a good thing.
You may not actually have any 240v stuff tho if your big stuff is
fossil.



That goes without saying but maybe I should have mentioned it. Besides
the main, I will shut off *all* the breakers including the 240v AC,
water heater and stove. Then, I'll turn on the 15 amp breaker that
feeds the shed, the 15 amp breaker that feeds the furnace and one or two
others *if* they are on the same leg of the 240 service.


That should work and from what I figured out in Irma, you can have
most of the breakers on if you use a little discipline and turn things
off when you are not using them. The only breaker I really had off was
the water heater plus the main that was interlocked with the in feed
breaker. The central AC was off at the stat and we knew enough not to
use the oven. With some load management I could use a stove burner but
I had 2 propane burners in the outside kitchen so there was no need.
We pretty much walked around using things normally. The thing we
missed was hot water and it was ironic because the generator had
enough waste heat to boil the 40 gallon tank several times a day. That
was one I thought about quite a bit. The ambient was still well over
80 and my water heater is outside so it wasn't freezing water.

On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 14:53:54 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:16:34 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 1:07 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 12:42:29 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/4/2018 12:20 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 08:54:03 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 17:19:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/3/2018 2:28 PM, Its Me wrote:
Light flurries now, the predictions range from a dusting to 1-2 inches. Worse the closer to the coast you get. My BIL at James Island (Charleston) sent a picture earlier of maybe 1/4 inch and still falling. Very unusual for them.

It's out of here in a few hours and headed up the coast. Good luck!



Damn. I was hoping it would dump a foot in Mt. Pleasant, just to shut
my son up.

Last I heard it is supposed to "explode" as it comes up the coast,
becoming essentially a winter hurricane.

"Bombogenesis" is the technical term, and the popular "bomb cyclone" is a shortened version of it,
according to our weather folks.

They do seem to just make up names for things these days. I think the
classic was "Super Storm Sandy" to talk about something that was not
even a hurricane, it was just "super" for people who were not used to
tropical weather.
It is far from unprecedented tho. There was a real Cat 3 there in the
30s.
I have certainly seen that weather pattern in DC tho and this is not
even the worst case. The snow would actually be more of a problem if
the "eye" of that low was farther west so your wind was drawing wet
gulf stream air up into the cold front north of you. That is what
gives DC over a foot of snow a day and if it stalls, you
"Knickerbocker" snow.


Up here a Cat 1 hurricane in the summer might be preferable over what is
going on right now. When you look at this storm on radar it is
developing a very defined rotation as it is winding up and getting
bigger. Snowfall rate here is 2-3 inches/hr and the temp is dropping
like a rock since this morning. Pretty much a white-out out there.

Major flooding in Justin's former town with 4 disabled cars with people
trapped inside, one a woman with 2 kids. Water is over the wheel wells.
Fire and National Guard are responding.

My old stomping grounds in Scituate is really getting clobbered ...
worst in over 30 years despite improvements in sea walls, etc. A TV
reporter nut was standing on the porch of a house about 30 feet from the
seawall and he was getting soaked with spray, along with dodging sea ice
that is being thrown up onto the roofs of houses.

So far we haven't had any power glitches here but I fully expect we'll
lose it in the next hour or so. Wind where I am is gusting 55-60 mph.

Best of luck in all that. I think I'd be getting out the extension cords and prioritizing my
electricity requirements!


Did that yesterday ... that's why I was firing up the Honda to test.

I have a new plan. If power goes out I am going to shut off the main
breaker and then backfeed the generator output through a 15 amp outlet
that's in the shed. It's on the same branch of the split 240v house
supply as the furnace and a couple of rooms. All my lighting is LED, so
that's a tiny load. The generator will run those plus the furnace
system with no problem and I don't need to have extension cords running
anywhere.


Well, you know more about electricity than I do. That's something I'd never try. Came across this
while looking for info. Don't know if it'll help or you already have it down.

http://www.tcscooters.com/backfeed.htm

I like steps 1-3:

If you are going to backfeed your home, you must be very carefully and follow the directions below.
If you fail to follow them you can kill a line worker, kill yourself or blow up your generator.
Again I'll say, get a licensed electrician.

Step One, the most important step of all is to turn off the main breakers.
Step two, turn off the main breakers.
Step three, turn off the main breakers. Do you get the idea?
Step four, remember to plug the generator end in last. If the generator is running and you are using
two male ends the house end plug is live!

Ah the suicide cord.
A much better solution is a panel interlock if you have a spare slot
for a 1 or 2 pole breaker, depending on what generator you have. It
forces you to only have one on at a time (generator or main) You also
get to use an inlet plug on the generator breaker so you never have
live plug prongs.
It is also legal.
That is worth the $100 it costs.