12:45 PMPoco Deplorevole
- show quoted text -
The pipes, jetting and K&N air filters made a hell of a difference in the way mine ran.
....

Oh yes I'm sure it would. I'm limited in mine to what I can do. Seeing mine is electronic fuel injected, anout the only things available is through Harpers, there's some "performance" mufflers. And also available is a $300.00 computer box, and that's about it..

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

https://store.58cycle.com/product_p/...FRYbgQodK0oD8g

On 5/1/2017 2:15 PM, Tim wrote:

12:45 PMPoco Deplorevole
- show quoted text -
The pipes, jetting and K&N air filters made a hell of a difference in the way mine ran.
...

Oh yes I'm sure it would. I'm limited in mine to what I can do. Seeing mine is electronic fuel injected, anout the only things available is through Harpers, there's some "performance" mufflers. And also available is a $300.00 computer box, and that's about it..

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

https://store.58cycle.com/product_p/...FRYbgQodK0oD8g



Do you really think K&N air filters make a difference? I've tried them
on two different vehicles, one with a carb and one that was fuel
injected. Other than being a bit louder under full throttle, I didn't
see any performance difference. Isn't it true that a stock air filter
is designed to pass the maximum amount of air that the intake can
handle? If so, of what benefit is a K&N? They may be capable of more
air passing through them under test conditions but if the intake only
demands what a stock filter can handle, what's the point?

On Mon, 1 May 2017 14:27:26 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 2:15 PM, Tim wrote:

12:45 PMPoco Deplorevole
- show quoted text -
The pipes, jetting and K&N air filters made a hell of a difference in the way mine ran.
...

Oh yes I'm sure it would. I'm limited in mine to what I can do. Seeing mine is electronic fuel injected, anout the only things available is through Harpers, there's some "performance" mufflers. And also available is a $300.00 computer box, and that's about it..

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

https://store.58cycle.com/product_p/...FRYbgQodK0oD8g



Do you really think K&N air filters make a difference? I've tried them
on two different vehicles, one with a carb and one that was fuel
injected. Other than being a bit louder under full throttle, I didn't
see any performance difference. Isn't it true that a stock air filter
is designed to pass the maximum amount of air that the intake can
handle? If so, of what benefit is a K&N? They may be capable of more
air passing through them under test conditions but if the intake only
demands what a stock filter can handle, what's the point?

I don't know if the K&Ns pass more air or not. With the three changes I made to my bike it
accelerated much faster. I do know that I can dismount, clean, oil, and replace the K&Ns in about a
half hour. The stock air filter would take at least an hour just to get to it...buried under the gas
tank between frame members with tubes going everywhere.

Here's what the stock filter looks like:

https://www.harpermoto.com/images/pl...air-filter.jpg

Here's a pic showing how it's mounted, but you have to look very closely. It's under the top center
frame member, between the two side frame members, snuggled down between the two cylinders.

http://image.wikifoundry.com/image/1...3686/GW448H336

Here's the K&N installation:

http://www.spedizione.nl/wp-content/...-3-2015-41.jpg

2:17 PMPoco Deplorevole
- show quoted text -
I don't know if the K&Ns pass more air or not. With the three changes I made to my bike it
accelerated much faster. I do know that I can dismount, clean, oil, and replace the K&Ns in about a
half hour. The stock air filter would take at least an hour just to get to it...buried under the gas
tank between frame members with tubes going everywhere.

Here's what the stock filter looks like:

https://www.harpermoto.com/images/pl...air-filter.jpg

Here's a pic showing how it's mounted, but you have to look very closely. It's under the top center
frame member, between the two side frame members, snuggled down between the two cylinders.

http://image.wikifoundry.com/image/1...3686/GW448H336
----

That's one thing I liked about my old ambassador. It had a simple paper element in a tin box full of vents. Changing the filter was a snap. That was then and this is now...

On 5/1/2017 3:17 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2017 14:27:26 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 2:15 PM, Tim wrote:

12:45 PMPoco Deplorevole
- show quoted text -
The pipes, jetting and K&N air filters made a hell of a difference in the way mine ran.
...

Oh yes I'm sure it would. I'm limited in mine to what I can do. Seeing mine is electronic fuel injected, anout the only things available is through Harpers, there's some "performance" mufflers. And also available is a $300.00 computer box, and that's about it..

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

https://store.58cycle.com/product_p/...FRYbgQodK0oD8g



Do you really think K&N air filters make a difference? I've tried them
on two different vehicles, one with a carb and one that was fuel
injected. Other than being a bit louder under full throttle, I didn't
see any performance difference. Isn't it true that a stock air filter
is designed to pass the maximum amount of air that the intake can
handle? If so, of what benefit is a K&N? They may be capable of more
air passing through them under test conditions but if the intake only
demands what a stock filter can handle, what's the point?

I don't know if the K&Ns pass more air or not. With the three changes I made to my bike it
accelerated much faster. I do know that I can dismount, clean, oil, and replace the K&Ns in about a
half hour. The stock air filter would take at least an hour just to get to it...buried under the gas
tank between frame members with tubes going everywhere.

Here's what the stock filter looks like:

https://www.harpermoto.com/images/pl...air-filter.jpg

Here's a pic showing how it's mounted, but you have to look very closely. It's under the top center
frame member, between the two side frame members, snuggled down between the two cylinders.

http://image.wikifoundry.com/image/1...3686/GW448H336

Here's the K&N installation:

http://www.spedizione.nl/wp-content/...-3-2015-41.jpg




I never tried a K&N on any of my motorcycles so I have no personal
experience. However, I was curious and ran across this explanation in a
motorcycle forum. Guy seems to know what he's talking about:



"Several years ago a bunch of BMW motorcycle enthusiasts decided to test
the claims. They dyno tested several bikes with factory air filters, K&N
filters, and NO filter, and made several runs.

There was exactly zero measurable power increase.

The claims tend to work like this:

-Factory air filter produces 1.5" H2O pressure drop.
-Wonder filter produces only 0.5" H2O pressure drop.

Wonder filter is 300% better!!!

This ignores the fact that atmospheric pressure is about 384"H2O.
Therefore a 1.5" pressure drop represents, at most, a 0.3% power loss.
If the improvement were directly proportional to pressure, then the
wonder filter might produce a 0.2% power increase, which is completely
buried in the noise of temperature variations and barometric pressure
changes. But this is not the case. Mass flow varies as the square root
of pressure drop, so that difference in pressure allows only 0.1% more
mass flow.

The actual difference is even less than that though. Because the filter
is only part of the total pressure drop between open atmosphere and the
inside of the cylinders. Most of the drop is still going to be getting
past the intake valve(s). Tuned intakes can mitigate this over narrow
rpm ranges, and this is of course where peak torque is measured, so
really sensitive measurements may pick up an improvement in peak torque,
but anywere else the pressure loss across the filter is meaningless.

On Mon, 1 May 2017 16:21:35 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 3:17 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2017 14:27:26 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 2:15 PM, Tim wrote:

12:45 PMPoco Deplorevole
- show quoted text -
The pipes, jetting and K&N air filters made a hell of a difference in the way mine ran.
...

Oh yes I'm sure it would. I'm limited in mine to what I can do. Seeing mine is electronic fuel injected, anout the only things available is through Harpers, there's some "performance" mufflers. And also available is a $300.00 computer box, and that's about it..

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

https://store.58cycle.com/product_p/...FRYbgQodK0oD8g



Do you really think K&N air filters make a difference? I've tried them
on two different vehicles, one with a carb and one that was fuel
injected. Other than being a bit louder under full throttle, I didn't
see any performance difference. Isn't it true that a stock air filter
is designed to pass the maximum amount of air that the intake can
handle? If so, of what benefit is a K&N? They may be capable of more
air passing through them under test conditions but if the intake only
demands what a stock filter can handle, what's the point?

I don't know if the K&Ns pass more air or not. With the three changes I made to my bike it
accelerated much faster. I do know that I can dismount, clean, oil, and replace the K&Ns in about a
half hour. The stock air filter would take at least an hour just to get to it...buried under the gas
tank between frame members with tubes going everywhere.

Here's what the stock filter looks like:

https://www.harpermoto.com/images/pl...air-filter.jpg

Here's a pic showing how it's mounted, but you have to look very closely. It's under the top center
frame member, between the two side frame members, snuggled down between the two cylinders.

http://image.wikifoundry.com/image/1...3686/GW448H336

Here's the K&N installation:

http://www.spedizione.nl/wp-content/...-3-2015-41.jpg




I never tried a K&N on any of my motorcycles so I have no personal
experience. However, I was curious and ran across this explanation in a
motorcycle forum. Guy seems to know what he's talking about:



"Several years ago a bunch of BMW motorcycle enthusiasts decided to test
the claims. They dyno tested several bikes with factory air filters, K&N
filters, and NO filter, and made several runs.

There was exactly zero measurable power increase.

The claims tend to work like this:

-Factory air filter produces 1.5" H2O pressure drop.
-Wonder filter produces only 0.5" H2O pressure drop.

Wonder filter is 300% better!!!

This ignores the fact that atmospheric pressure is about 384"H2O.
Therefore a 1.5" pressure drop represents, at most, a 0.3% power loss.
If the improvement were directly proportional to pressure, then the
wonder filter might produce a 0.2% power increase, which is completely
buried in the noise of temperature variations and barometric pressure
changes. But this is not the case. Mass flow varies as the square root
of pressure drop, so that difference in pressure allows only 0.1% more
mass flow.

The actual difference is even less than that though. Because the filter
is only part of the total pressure drop between open atmosphere and the
inside of the cylinders. Most of the drop is still going to be getting
past the intake valve(s). Tuned intakes can mitigate this over narrow
rpm ranges, and this is of course where peak torque is measured, so
really sensitive measurements may pick up an improvement in peak torque,
but anywere else the pressure loss across the filter is meaningless.

My use of K&Ns on the Guzzi is purely convenience...and they're cheap. The two on their now have
lasted over 25 years. Can't bitch about that.

On 5/1/2017 5:01 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2017 16:21:35 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 3:17 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2017 14:27:26 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 2:15 PM, Tim wrote:

12:45 PMPoco Deplorevole
- show quoted text -
The pipes, jetting and K&N air filters made a hell of a difference in the way mine ran.
...

Oh yes I'm sure it would. I'm limited in mine to what I can do. Seeing mine is electronic fuel injected, anout the only things available is through Harpers, there's some "performance" mufflers. And also available is a $300.00 computer box, and that's about it..

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

https://store.58cycle.com/product_p/...FRYbgQodK0oD8g



Do you really think K&N air filters make a difference? I've tried them
on two different vehicles, one with a carb and one that was fuel
injected. Other than being a bit louder under full throttle, I didn't
see any performance difference. Isn't it true that a stock air filter
is designed to pass the maximum amount of air that the intake can
handle? If so, of what benefit is a K&N? They may be capable of more
air passing through them under test conditions but if the intake only
demands what a stock filter can handle, what's the point?

I don't know if the K&Ns pass more air or not. With the three changes I made to my bike it
accelerated much faster. I do know that I can dismount, clean, oil, and replace the K&Ns in about a
half hour. The stock air filter would take at least an hour just to get to it...buried under the gas
tank between frame members with tubes going everywhere.

Here's what the stock filter looks like:

https://www.harpermoto.com/images/pl...air-filter.jpg

Here's a pic showing how it's mounted, but you have to look very closely. It's under the top center
frame member, between the two side frame members, snuggled down between the two cylinders.

http://image.wikifoundry.com/image/1...3686/GW448H336

Here's the K&N installation:

http://www.spedizione.nl/wp-content/...-3-2015-41.jpg




I never tried a K&N on any of my motorcycles so I have no personal
experience. However, I was curious and ran across this explanation in a
motorcycle forum. Guy seems to know what he's talking about:



"Several years ago a bunch of BMW motorcycle enthusiasts decided to test
the claims. They dyno tested several bikes with factory air filters, K&N
filters, and NO filter, and made several runs.

There was exactly zero measurable power increase.

The claims tend to work like this:

-Factory air filter produces 1.5" H2O pressure drop.
-Wonder filter produces only 0.5" H2O pressure drop.

Wonder filter is 300% better!!!

This ignores the fact that atmospheric pressure is about 384"H2O.
Therefore a 1.5" pressure drop represents, at most, a 0.3% power loss.
If the improvement were directly proportional to pressure, then the
wonder filter might produce a 0.2% power increase, which is completely
buried in the noise of temperature variations and barometric pressure
changes. But this is not the case. Mass flow varies as the square root
of pressure drop, so that difference in pressure allows only 0.1% more
mass flow.

The actual difference is even less than that though. Because the filter
is only part of the total pressure drop between open atmosphere and the
inside of the cylinders. Most of the drop is still going to be getting
past the intake valve(s). Tuned intakes can mitigate this over narrow
rpm ranges, and this is of course where peak torque is measured, so
really sensitive measurements may pick up an improvement in peak torque,
but anywere else the pressure loss across the filter is meaningless.

My use of K&Ns on the Guzzi is purely convenience...and they're cheap. The two on their now have
lasted over 25 years. Can't bitch about that.



Understand. My problem are the claims that K&N air filters increase
horsepower and performance. By themselves, I don't buy it. If you
change your 2 barrel Carter for a 4 barrel Holley and add a K&N ... sure.

When I was 16 or 17 my first car was a '62 Ford Galaxie. It was fun to
take the air cleaner assembly completely off and floor it to hear the
roar of the air entering the intake through carb. Car didn't go any
faster. It just made more noise.

4:22 PMMr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
Understand. My problem are the claims that K&N air filters increase
horsepower and performance. By themselves, I don't buy it. If you
change your 2 barrel Carter for a 4 barrel Holley and add a K&N ... sure.

When I was 16 or 17 my first car was a '62 Ford Galaxie. It was fun to
take the air cleaner assembly completely off and floor it to hear the
roar of the air entering the intake through carb. Car didn't go any
faster. It just made more noise.
.....

Yup. A buddy did that to his dads 70 olds with a 45, only all he did was take the lid off the filter canister.. Problem was he floored it and the engine coughed and died. He knew the old man was going to kill him for blowing it up.
But when we raised the hood we were relieved at what actually happened. When he nailed it, that 700cfm "Rotten-Chester quadra-junk" sucked so hard it grabbed a generous amount of the fiber noise insulation attached to the underside of thehood and tried to eat it. It looked like the carb was full of black cotton candy.

With a flashlight and needle nose pliers we dug everything out at least the best we could, put it all together , and luckily it started and ran fine.. he parked it. And not a word was said. Kid never did that again...

On Mon, 1 May 2017 17:22:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 5:01 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2017 16:21:35 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 3:17 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2017 14:27:26 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 5/1/2017 2:15 PM, Tim wrote:

12:45 PMPoco Deplorevole
- show quoted text -
The pipes, jetting and K&N air filters made a hell of a difference in the way mine ran.
...

Oh yes I'm sure it would. I'm limited in mine to what I can do. Seeing mine is electronic fuel injected, anout the only things available is through Harpers, there's some "performance" mufflers. And also available is a $300.00 computer box, and that's about it..

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detai...zi/jackal-1100

https://store.58cycle.com/product_p/...FRYbgQodK0oD8g



Do you really think K&N air filters make a difference? I've tried them
on two different vehicles, one with a carb and one that was fuel
injected. Other than being a bit louder under full throttle, I didn't
see any performance difference. Isn't it true that a stock air filter
is designed to pass the maximum amount of air that the intake can
handle? If so, of what benefit is a K&N? They may be capable of more
air passing through them under test conditions but if the intake only
demands what a stock filter can handle, what's the point?

I don't know if the K&Ns pass more air or not. With the three changes I made to my bike it
accelerated much faster. I do know that I can dismount, clean, oil, and replace the K&Ns in about a
half hour. The stock air filter would take at least an hour just to get to it...buried under the gas
tank between frame members with tubes going everywhere.

Here's what the stock filter looks like:

https://www.harpermoto.com/images/pl...air-filter.jpg

Here's a pic showing how it's mounted, but you have to look very closely. It's under the top center
frame member, between the two side frame members, snuggled down between the two cylinders.

http://image.wikifoundry.com/image/1...3686/GW448H336

Here's the K&N installation:

http://www.spedizione.nl/wp-content/...-3-2015-41.jpg




I never tried a K&N on any of my motorcycles so I have no personal
experience. However, I was curious and ran across this explanation in a
motorcycle forum. Guy seems to know what he's talking about:



"Several years ago a bunch of BMW motorcycle enthusiasts decided to test
the claims. They dyno tested several bikes with factory air filters, K&N
filters, and NO filter, and made several runs.

There was exactly zero measurable power increase.

The claims tend to work like this:

-Factory air filter produces 1.5" H2O pressure drop.
-Wonder filter produces only 0.5" H2O pressure drop.

Wonder filter is 300% better!!!

This ignores the fact that atmospheric pressure is about 384"H2O.
Therefore a 1.5" pressure drop represents, at most, a 0.3% power loss.
If the improvement were directly proportional to pressure, then the
wonder filter might produce a 0.2% power increase, which is completely
buried in the noise of temperature variations and barometric pressure
changes. But this is not the case. Mass flow varies as the square root
of pressure drop, so that difference in pressure allows only 0.1% more
mass flow.

The actual difference is even less than that though. Because the filter
is only part of the total pressure drop between open atmosphere and the
inside of the cylinders. Most of the drop is still going to be getting
past the intake valve(s). Tuned intakes can mitigate this over narrow
rpm ranges, and this is of course where peak torque is measured, so
really sensitive measurements may pick up an improvement in peak torque,
but anywere else the pressure loss across the filter is meaningless.

My use of K&Ns on the Guzzi is purely convenience...and they're cheap. The two on their now have
lasted over 25 years. Can't bitch about that.



Understand. My problem are the claims that K&N air filters increase
horsepower and performance. By themselves, I don't buy it. If you
change your 2 barrel Carter for a 4 barrel Holley and add a K&N ... sure.

When I was 16 or 17 my first car was a '62 Ford Galaxie. It was fun to
take the air cleaner assembly completely off and floor it to hear the
roar of the air entering the intake through carb. Car didn't go any
faster. It just made more noise.



Yup. I've never read anything showing K&N performance increases except on K&N pubs or packages. On
my bike I think the jetting and open exhaust made the performance increase. And, of course, it helps
to have an HIV Positive physique, as Krause would say.

1:27 PMMr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
Do you really think K&N air filters make a difference? I've tried them
on two different vehicles, one with a carb and one that was fuel
injected. Other than being a bit louder under full throttle, I didn't
see any performance difference. Isn't it true that a stock air filter
is designed to pass the maximum amount of air that the intake can
handle? If so, of what benefit is a K&N? They may be capable of more
air passing through them under test conditions but if the intake only
demands what a stock filter can handle, what's the point?
......

Richard, I believe the KN is made for more extreme measures like dirt racing. Possibly giving better filtration but also more air flow while half clogged compared to OE when new...