Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On 9/7/16 9:43 AM, justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 9/7/16 8:40 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 9/6/2016 8:00 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/6/16 7:29 PM, justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 9/6/16 5:44 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 17:07:41 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Leaving students bewildered and stranded. Anyone know more about
this government action against education?

===

The problem is that studens were misled about their employment
opportunities and then defaulted on their government backed student
loans when they couldn't get jobs. The ITT training wasn't quite as
rigorous as the US Navy's and neither were their admission standards.



The Navy has admission standards? Beyond fogging a mirror?


You'd be surprised.


Not if you got in...

The problem with your accusations is that you have no idea what you are
talking about. The Navy has many jobs ... called "ratings" ... and each
one has a minimum score required (along with other specific
requirements), to attend the rating's particular school(s). Some
require enlistments beyond the typical 4 years due to the length of the
schools and the educational investment the government makes. Without
giving away any unnecessary details, the rating and schools "Justan"
attended required one of the highest qualifying scores. You may be
good at sentence structure, prepositional phrases and teaching bonehead
English but it's highly unlikely you would have qualified for the Navy
schools he attended.




Oh, yeah, because the "details" from 50 years ago are significant today.
I get it.


Nothing stands still like the English language.
Once you master
it, it's yours for life. That holds true for most of the union
trades as well. Rules and standards change a bit but once a brick
stacker always a brick stacker. Technology is a different story.
You can't stagnate like an English proffessor and expect to move
along or even keep a job. So you're right. You also proved that a
pedestrian skill set like you have is not that hard to come by
and is of little value, especially for bragging rights.


What the hell would you know about intellectual pursuits? Answer?
Nothing. And you don't seem to know much about the skilled trades,
either. In fact, there's little evidence here you know much about anything.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 06:33:36 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/6/16 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 23:01:28 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 21:49:23 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

wrote:

Why would I want Navy electronics training?

I know, it is a science, you are an artist.


I took and got A's in a good number of university math and science classes.
As I have and had no interest in being in the navy, why would I want navy
electronics training?

I suppose if you want to spend 2 years learning what you could learn
in 6 weeks, go for it.


Ahh. Your anti-intellectual nonsense

Why is learning things faster anti intellectual?
It seems to me they dumb down schools to the lowest common denominator
and call it being intellectual. How is that right?
It is funny that the only schools who operate that way are the ones
that charge you by the hour so it is not all that amazing.
Schools run by people who have an interest in teaching you quickly, go
much faster with classes 7 or 8 hours a day at a much faster tempo and
if you can't keep up, you get kicked out.
Personally I prefer going fast. Even the IBM schools and the navy
school was not really challenging me. Public school was a joke to me
and my private school was barely holding my attention.
Give me the books and a little nudge in the right direction and I will
ace your test.



Fortunately, for the good of mankind, there are ways to learn other than
by rote.

Who said anything about "rote". The best learning is "experience" and
you do not get that in school but reading to book gives you the
knowledge to use that experience effectively.
In modern technology, books are not really that valuable once you get
past a few basic concepts because the information is obsolete before
the book can be printed and the instructors are woefully obsolete if
they are not rotating through the field in a very regular basis.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On 9/7/16 10:50 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 06:33:36 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/6/16 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 23:01:28 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 21:49:23 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

wrote:

Why would I want Navy electronics training?

I know, it is a science, you are an artist.


I took and got A's in a good number of university math and science classes.
As I have and had no interest in being in the navy, why would I want navy
electronics training?

I suppose if you want to spend 2 years learning what you could learn
in 6 weeks, go for it.


Ahh. Your anti-intellectual nonsense

Why is learning things faster anti intellectual?
It seems to me they dumb down schools to the lowest common denominator
and call it being intellectual. How is that right?
It is funny that the only schools who operate that way are the ones
that charge you by the hour so it is not all that amazing.
Schools run by people who have an interest in teaching you quickly, go
much faster with classes 7 or 8 hours a day at a much faster tempo and
if you can't keep up, you get kicked out.
Personally I prefer going fast. Even the IBM schools and the navy
school was not really challenging me. Public school was a joke to me
and my private school was barely holding my attention.
Give me the books and a little nudge in the right direction and I will
ace your test.



Fortunately, for the good of mankind, there are ways to learn other than
by rote.

Who said anything about "rote". The best learning is "experience" and
you do not get that in school . . .

Sure you do. Well, maybe not in the courses you took.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Wednesday, September 7, 2016 at 8:50:47 AM UTC-4, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/7/16 8:41 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 9/6/2016 9:12 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/6/16 8:11 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 20:00:32 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:



Not if you got in...

I doubt you would get much more than the statistical guessing average
(~25%) on the ETST (a test that is a prereq for Navy electronics
training)


Why would I want Navy electronics training?


Not to worry. You wouldn't qualify for it anyway.



You mean, my soldering and assembling a half dozen Radio Shack kits
(from the Crown Street store) while I was in junior high and high
school, my ability to take completely apart and properly reassemble
outboard motors and lawnmower engines, and my A's and B's in algebra,
geometry, chemistry, calculus, and physics in high school wouldn't have
done it for me? Damn! Then I guess I would have had to go to college and
not join the navy. Drats!

Our company trains middle aged ladies with high school diplomas to be electronic assemblers in a few days. The kits you built are the equivalent of paint-by-number paintings. Your daddy's outboards that you may have torn down are a far cry from today's which require special tools and likely factory training to do what you claim.

You just don't get it. You may have taken algebra and physics, but the ability to apply them, along with electronic theory, to design and repair electronic circuits require *far* more of an understanding than that Radio Shack kit could even hint at. And to be honest, a good electronic technician has innate skills that just can't be taught, especially in a college environment. You can't teach a kid to ride a bike at a seminar, or a lecture.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 08:50:42 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/7/16 8:41 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 9/6/2016 9:12 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/6/16 8:11 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 20:00:32 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:



Not if you got in...

I doubt you would get much more than the statistical guessing average
(~25%) on the ETST (a test that is a prereq for Navy electronics
training)


Why would I want Navy electronics training?


Not to worry. You wouldn't qualify for it anyway.



You mean, my soldering and assembling a half dozen Radio Shack kits
(from the Crown Street store) while I was in junior high and high
school, my ability to take completely apart and properly reassemble
outboard motors and lawnmower engines, and my A's and B's in algebra,
geometry, chemistry, calculus, and physics in high school wouldn't have
done it for me? Damn! Then I guess I would have had to go to college and
not join the navy. Drats!

Did you actually understand how those "kits" worked and how to find
which part was bad when they didn't? If I showed you a wave form,
could you identify the circuit that created it?

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

8:22 AMMr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
Like many, I don't think I've ever had a problem with "thinking",
critical or otherwise. I certainly didn't learn to "think" while
attending civilian college courses ... mostly at night school after I
left the Navy. I was older than most of the students, having spent 9
years in the Navy, and was generally regarded as being "seasoned" and
more advanced in my "critical thinking" capabilities, both by my fellow
students and by the instructor.

Why do you seem to insist that there is only *one* path to education?
.......

Or you're ignorant if you go through life and don't have a liberal arts degree?

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 09:02:20 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

My guess is that the college course was designed to stretch your
thinking processes, and the navy course was designed to teach you to do
tasks. Thinking, after all, isn't really important, eh?

Right now the "thinking" they teach is thinking the $100,000 they
spent will actually help them get a job but after graduating they end
up getting a job a high school drop out could do.
Remember I just told you, three years after graduating from Bill
Clinton's diploma mill, 65% of the students are in default on their
loans because they are not working. Trump graduates do that well.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On 9/7/16 11:03 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 08:50:42 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/7/16 8:41 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 9/6/2016 9:12 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 9/6/16 8:11 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 20:00:32 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:



Not if you got in...

I doubt you would get much more than the statistical guessing average
(~25%) on the ETST (a test that is a prereq for Navy electronics
training)


Why would I want Navy electronics training?


Not to worry. You wouldn't qualify for it anyway.



You mean, my soldering and assembling a half dozen Radio Shack kits
(from the Crown Street store) while I was in junior high and high
school, my ability to take completely apart and properly reassemble
outboard motors and lawnmower engines, and my A's and B's in algebra,
geometry, chemistry, calculus, and physics in high school wouldn't have
done it for me? Damn! Then I guess I would have had to go to college and
not join the navy. Drats!

Did you actually understand how those "kits" worked and how to find
which part was bad when they didn't? If I showed you a wave form,
could you identify the circuit that created it?


My dad knew and he sorta showed me at his shop, or one of his
moonlighting part-timers did (he had a couple of guys who were senior
techs at Sikorsky). I didn't say I had the knowledge of a trained
electronics tech, but I am sure I could have learned if I wanted to do
so. I did "ace" physics, calc, and chem in high school, and these were
all AP courses taught in small classes by first-rate, no-nonsense teachers.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 10:51:54 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/7/16 10:50 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 06:33:36 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 9/6/16 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 23:01:28 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 21:49:23 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

wrote:

Why would I want Navy electronics training?

I know, it is a science, you are an artist.


I took and got A's in a good number of university math and science classes.
As I have and had no interest in being in the navy, why would I want navy
electronics training?

I suppose if you want to spend 2 years learning what you could learn
in 6 weeks, go for it.


Ahh. Your anti-intellectual nonsense

Why is learning things faster anti intellectual?
It seems to me they dumb down schools to the lowest common denominator
and call it being intellectual. How is that right?
It is funny that the only schools who operate that way are the ones
that charge you by the hour so it is not all that amazing.
Schools run by people who have an interest in teaching you quickly, go
much faster with classes 7 or 8 hours a day at a much faster tempo and
if you can't keep up, you get kicked out.
Personally I prefer going fast. Even the IBM schools and the navy
school was not really challenging me. Public school was a joke to me
and my private school was barely holding my attention.
Give me the books and a little nudge in the right direction and I will
ace your test.



Fortunately, for the good of mankind, there are ways to learn other than
by rote.

Who said anything about "rote". The best learning is "experience" and
you do not get that in school . . .

Sure you do. Well, maybe not in the courses you took.

I understand the university will teach you plenty of things with no
practical purpose. It is reflected in the unemployment and
underemployment rate of college graduates. That manifests itself in
the miserable rate that the trillion plus dollars worth of student
loans are being repaid.

Government shuts down ITT Tech
 

On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 08:10:17 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Why do you seem to insist that there is only *one* path to education?

I suppose for the same reason he thinks the only path to anything is
the one he took. Yet he ended up sitting on a bus for a couple hours a
day going to work at a time in his life when he should be retired and
enjoying his boat.