(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 3 Nov 2003 05:02:04 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

Steven Shelikoff, the racing expert wrote:


Actually, the area of the wheel exposed to the gas in a race car tire is
pretty large compared to the area of the tire since they are wide and
low profile.

Not in all types of racing. Actually, in some types, the narrower the
better, less contact area, less friction. Take a salt flat racer, for
instance.

Yeah, and bicycle racing.

Though it doesn't apply much to boat trailer tires, the heat
conductivity of the gas would work against tire cooling in the case of
race cars and aircraft since it would serve to increase the rate of tire
heating in heavy brake application. Many aircraft tire failures are due

Of course it all depends on the type of racing. During most racing like
road racing, twisty corners, etc, heavy braking is applied but for very
short durations. Superspeedway racing, not at all.

Are you really trying to say that on superspeedways, they don't use
brakes at all? That's pretty stupid. They actually use brakes as
opposed to letting off the throttle, trying to keep the enginer RPM's
up. It takes forever to get those restictor plate engines back up to
speed. They do, however, use completely different brake setups,
smaller rotors, pads. These smaller, thinner rotors will get quite
hot, quite quickly.

Sorry to dissapoint you but at NASCAR restrictor plate races like at
Talladega and Daytona, the driver will almost without exception have
the gas pedal to the floor and not touch the brakes all day.

Pure horse****!!!!! They do, indeed, keep the throttle wide open, but
they DO use the brakes, and quite a lot. They use the brakes as
opposed to letting up on the throttle when drafting, to avoid loosing
engine rpms from what is commonly refered to as "lifting". So, to say
that they "not touch the brakes all day" is, again, false.

They even
tape up the brake vents for more downforce since there's little need to
cool the brakes.

Actually, almost all teams don't even use brake ducting on
superspeedways, if that is what you mean by "brake vents".

That's the exact opposite from short track and road course races where
they use the brakes so much that they need blowers to cool the them
since the vents don't provide enough cooling. They use a beefy braking
setup for those races since they have twice the power available so
there's much more to overcome braking losses, and they really need the
brakes.

Steve

The "beefy" brakes are because they have to slow the car from say,
130mph in the straight at Bristol, down to 60mph in turns 1 and 2, in
the shortest amount of time. It's all about being able to hold that
130mph until the last possible moment, slamming on the brakes until
the car takes a "set" (meaning it goes from pushing, or understeer, to
loose, or oversteer.), then being able to get back into the throttle.
Of course, I'm sure, you are an expert, as always!!!!
Oh, and your Nascar tire diatribe is wrong, and stupid.

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...

Pure horse****!!!!! They do, indeed, keep the throttle wide open, but
they DO use the brakes, and quite a lot. They use the brakes as
opposed to letting up on the throttle when drafting, to avoid loosing
engine rpms from what is commonly refered to as "lifting".


I ask you again: What type of connection do they use between the engine and
the wheels that allows the engine RPMs to stay high while the car slows
down?

Rod

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:11:13 -0800, "Rod McInnis"
wrote:


"basskisser" wrote in message
. com...

Pure horse****!!!!! They do, indeed, keep the throttle wide open, but
they DO use the brakes, and quite a lot. They use the brakes as
opposed to letting up on the throttle when drafting, to avoid loosing
engine rpms from what is commonly refered to as "lifting".


I ask you again: What type of connection do they use between the engine and
the wheels that allows the engine RPMs to stay high while the car slows
down?

He's full of crap as usual. They do use the brakes without lifting off
the gas pedal but not to avoid loosing engine rpms. It avoids the short
time lag in getting power back if you lift off the pedal. It also
avoids abrupt changes in handling and suspension geometry that you get
when you lift off the gas pedal, which shifts the front/rear weight
distribution around.

Steve

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...

They do use the brakes without lifting off
the gas pedal but not to avoid loosing engine rpms. It avoids the short
time lag in getting power back if you lift off the pedal.

Yeah, I know.

It is especially common on cars that use a turbo charger as it will keep the
exhaust manifold hot and the turbo spun up so they can have maximum boost
when they really need it. I am sure it gets carried over to normally
aspirated engines just because the drivers get into a habit and don't want
to break it.

I was just pushing basskisser to see if he could apply any amount of reason
to anything he says. He seems to get a little bit of knowledge and applies
it all wrong. The RPMs high while the car slows down was just so obvious an
error, yet he repeated the statement multiple times even after being
challenged.

Rod

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:46:20 -0800, "Rod McInnis"
wrote:


"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...

They do use the brakes without lifting off
the gas pedal but not to avoid loosing engine rpms. It avoids the short
time lag in getting power back if you lift off the pedal.

Yeah, I know.

It is especially common on cars that use a turbo charger as it will keep the
exhaust manifold hot and the turbo spun up so they can have maximum boost
when they really need it. I am sure it gets carried over to normally
aspirated engines just because the drivers get into a habit and don't want
to break it.

It's a very long time for turbo cars, but is still there in normally
aspirated cars. Must have something to do with inertia. lol

I was just pushing basskisser to see if he could apply any amount of reason
to anything he says. He seems to get a little bit of knowledge and applies
it all wrong. The RPMs high while the car slows down was just so obvious an
error, yet he repeated the statement multiple times even after being
challenged.

There is no rhyme or reason for anything basskisser says. He's an idiot
and if he says something, you can be fairly certain that the opposite is
true.

Steve

"Rod McInnis" wrote in message ...
"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...

They do use the brakes without lifting off
the gas pedal but not to avoid loosing engine rpms. It avoids the short
time lag in getting power back if you lift off the pedal.

Yeah, I know.

It is especially common on cars that use a turbo charger as it will keep the
exhaust manifold hot and the turbo spun up so they can have maximum boost
when they really need it. I am sure it gets carried over to normally
aspirated engines just because the drivers get into a habit and don't want
to break it.

I was just pushing basskisser to see if he could apply any amount of reason
to anything he says. He seems to get a little bit of knowledge and applies
it all wrong. The RPMs high while the car slows down was just so obvious an
error, yet he repeated the statement multiple times even after being
challenged.

Rod

Are you just trying to be funny, or are you really not very bright?

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:11:13 -0800, "Rod McInnis"
wrote:


"basskisser" wrote in message
. com...

Pure horse****!!!!! They do, indeed, keep the throttle wide open, but
they DO use the brakes, and quite a lot. They use the brakes as
opposed to letting up on the throttle when drafting, to avoid loosing
engine rpms from what is commonly refered to as "lifting".


I ask you again: What type of connection do they use between the engine and
the wheels that allows the engine RPMs to stay high while the car slows
down?

He's full of crap as usual. They do use the brakes without lifting off
the gas pedal but not to avoid loosing engine rpms. It avoids the short
time lag in getting power back if you lift off the pedal. It also
avoids abrupt changes in handling and suspension geometry that you get
when you lift off the gas pedal, which shifts the front/rear weight
distribution around.

Steve

You're stupidity is showing again. Using the brakes does anything BUT
"avoid abrupt changes in handling....." In racing circles, it's
commonly refered to as "taking a set", when you are ram rodding into a
corner, the car tends to push, braking allows the car to "take a set",
which actually makes the car a little loose, but loose is fast, to a
point. Now, are you really saying that lifting the throttle shifts the
front to rear weight, but braking does not???!!!!!! By the way, the
driver can adjust brake bias from his seat, just a turn of the knob.

On 7 Nov 2003 05:02:50 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:11:13 -0800, "Rod McInnis"
wrote:


"basskisser" wrote in message
. com...

Pure horse****!!!!! They do, indeed, keep the throttle wide open, but
they DO use the brakes, and quite a lot. They use the brakes as
opposed to letting up on the throttle when drafting, to avoid loosing
engine rpms from what is commonly refered to as "lifting".


I ask you again: What type of connection do they use between the engine and
the wheels that allows the engine RPMs to stay high while the car slows
down?

He's full of crap as usual. They do use the brakes without lifting off
the gas pedal but not to avoid loosing engine rpms. It avoids the short
time lag in getting power back if you lift off the pedal. It also
avoids abrupt changes in handling and suspension geometry that you get
when you lift off the gas pedal, which shifts the front/rear weight
distribution around.

You're stupidity is showing again. Using the brakes does anything BUT
"avoid abrupt changes in handling....." In racing circles, it's
commonly refered to as "taking a set", when you are ram rodding into a
corner, the car tends to push, braking allows the car to "take a set",
which actually makes the car a little loose, but loose is fast, to a
point. Now, are you really saying that lifting the throttle shifts the
front to rear weight, but braking does not???!!!!!! By the way, the

Nope. I'm saying that lifting off the throttle will cause an abrupt
change in handling. Applying the brakes also does that. But why have 2
abrupt changed in handling if you only have to have one?

driver can adjust brake bias from his seat, just a turn of the knob.

Something else you've read somewhere and don't know how to apply? Nice.

Steve

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message
driver can adjust brake bias from his seat, just a turn of the knob.

Something else you've read somewhere and don't know how to apply? Nice.

Steve

Are you saying that it isn't done? Really? Hell, every Winston cup car
now has the ability to adjust brake bias from the cockpit. Anybody
that knows anything about racing knows this: this is from Dale
Jarrett's crew chief, a little Q and A session on nascar.com:

Question: We hear a lot about the driver's ability to change the brake
bias in the car while driving, but they never explain how it actually
works and how the driver changes it. At which tracks would they use
this more than others and why?

ANSWER: You have a brake bias adjustor that adjusts the front to rear
brake bias. The driver can manually do that by turning a knob that's
located right by the shifter handle. One revolution clockwise would
adjust the front and one revolution counter clockwise would adjust the
rear. The adjustor changes the bias by about 30 to 50 pounds per
revolution. The driver only adjusts the brake bias during a run for
fuel burn-off or because the car is pushing or is loose.

Still don't think it's done? Still don't think I knew what I was
talking about?

On 10 Nov 2003 09:47:11 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message
driver can adjust brake bias from his seat, just a turn of the knob.

Something else you've read somewhere and don't know how to apply? Nice.

Steve

Are you saying that it isn't done? Really? Hell, every Winston cup car
now has the ability to adjust brake bias from the cockpit. Anybody
that knows anything about racing knows this: this is from Dale
Jarrett's crew chief, a little Q and A session on nascar.com:

Of course it's done. But the part you snipped shows that you have no
idea what adjusting the brake bias does and doesn't do.


Question: We hear a lot about the driver's ability to change the brake
bias in the car while driving, but they never explain how it actually
works and how the driver changes it. At which tracks would they use
this more than others and why?

ANSWER: You have a brake bias adjustor that adjusts the front to rear
brake bias. The driver can manually do that by turning a knob that's
located right by the shifter handle. One revolution clockwise would
adjust the front and one revolution counter clockwise would adjust the
rear. The adjustor changes the bias by about 30 to 50 pounds per
revolution. The driver only adjusts the brake bias during a run for
fuel burn-off or because the car is pushing or is loose.

Still don't think it's done? Still don't think I knew what I was
talking about?

Yes, I still don't think you know what you're talking about. Because it
is not relavent at all in your post where you first brought up adjusting
the brake bias. Now that you've looked it up on the web, I'm glad to
see that you've learned what it does (well, maybe not learned but at
least you can regurgitate a blurb about it) because you didn't know
before. Now you can go back and look at the part you snipped to see why
it's irrelavent.

Now that you've proven that it may be possible for you to learn
something, let's see if you can use that power to realize that drivers
don't use the brakes "quite a lot" during restrictor plate races. In
fact, they avoid using the brakes at all costs because in that type of
racing, just a tap of the brakes costs them positions.

Steve