https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxGQ5t4lvI

Enjoy.
--

Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns!

On 2/17/2016 12:11 PM, John H. wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxGQ5t4lvI

Enjoy.


Telarc has put out a number of Super Audio CD's, this being one of them.

Hopefully, you have a Super Audio CD player (Sony) and
amplifier/receiver that
will accept it's 6 channel output with each channel having a dedicated,
discrete input. The amp/receiver must be then put in direct, 6 channel
mode, (often called "Multi-Channel Input" driving a main left, main
right, center, left rear, right rear and subwoofer. Most Telarc SACD
are hybrid, meaning they will also play on a conventional CD player but
you will lose superior fidelity of a SACD recording. Conventional,
digital "Surround Sound" ... be it 5.1 or 7.1 is *not* SACD.

In addition, SACD's are recorded completely differently than a regular
CD. It's complicated and hard to explain but it uses phase modulation
rather than amplitude modulation. Basically, it's much like the
fidelity difference between AM and FM radio. Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz which means it can't
broadcast the full audio frequency spectrum that the human ear can
detect. FM, in addition to being frequency modulated rather than
amplitude modulated has a 200Khz bandwidth.

The only negative about SACD's is the limited number of them available
and the fact that Sony is the only manufacturer of SACD players (last I
knew).

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:36:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz

That is why most records made in the 60s and earlier sound like they
do. They were mixed to play on the radio. It wasn't until "hi fi" LPs
came around that you started getting decent sound. Even those got
"remastered" for CDs. When you play old tunes on a good system that
limitation becomes immediately apparent. I doubt the original source
material even exists to remaster them in a lot of cases. I suppose
they can try to expand the sound digitally but it will just be a guess
about what it was supposed to be.

On 2/17/2016 1:01 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:36:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz

That is why most records made in the 60s and earlier sound like they
do. They were mixed to play on the radio. It wasn't until "hi fi" LPs
came around that you started getting decent sound. Even those got
"remastered" for CDs. When you play old tunes on a good system that
limitation becomes immediately apparent. I doubt the original source
material even exists to remaster them in a lot of cases. I suppose
they can try to expand the sound digitally but it will just be a guess
about what it was supposed to be.



I don't think the old recordings were purposely mixed to play on the
radio. High quality recordings were being made in the 30's and 40's.
They just don't sound very good on AM. Also .. that 10Khz bandwidth
is really only 5Khz available for audio modulation. The 10Khz is the
total of what the allocated spectrum is above and below the carrier
frequency. So, you are only hearing up to 5Khz.

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 12:36:09 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2016 12:11 PM, John H. wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxGQ5t4lvI

Enjoy.


Telarc has put out a number of Super Audio CD's, this being one of them.

Hopefully, you have a Super Audio CD player (Sony) and
amplifier/receiver that
will accept it's 6 channel output with each channel having a dedicated,
discrete input. The amp/receiver must be then put in direct, 6 channel
mode, (often called "Multi-Channel Input" driving a main left, main
right, center, left rear, right rear and subwoofer. Most Telarc SACD
are hybrid, meaning they will also play on a conventional CD player but
you will lose superior fidelity of a SACD recording. Conventional,
digital "Surround Sound" ... be it 5.1 or 7.1 is *not* SACD.

In addition, SACD's are recorded completely differently than a regular
CD. It's complicated and hard to explain but it uses phase modulation
rather than amplitude modulation. Basically, it's much like the
fidelity difference between AM and FM radio. Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz which means it can't
broadcast the full audio frequency spectrum that the human ear can
detect. FM, in addition to being frequency modulated rather than
amplitude modulated has a 200Khz bandwidth.

While the channel separation (bandwidth) of FM is 200khz, it is used for several signals. The resulting audio bandwidth is 15khz.

It's really unfortunate that the US adopted the stereo FM system it did. While it maintained compatibility with the mono FM receivers of the day, it severely limited the performance of the FM stereo signal. We're still suffering with it today.

Oh, and there are scores of SACD players on the market now. And while some have the analog outputs you describe, most of the modern players are also Blu-ray, and transport the audio via HDMI. It then depends on your AV receiver to decode and route the audio to the discrete channels.

On 2/17/16 12:36 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2016 12:11 PM, John H. wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxGQ5t4lvI

Enjoy.


Telarc has put out a number of Super Audio CD's, this being one of them.

Hopefully, you have a Super Audio CD player (Sony) and
amplifier/receiver that
will accept it's 6 channel output with each channel having a dedicated,
discrete input. The amp/receiver must be then put in direct, 6 channel
mode, (often called "Multi-Channel Input" driving a main left, main
right, center, left rear, right rear and subwoofer. Most Telarc SACD
are hybrid, meaning they will also play on a conventional CD player but
you will lose superior fidelity of a SACD recording. Conventional,
digital "Surround Sound" ... be it 5.1 or 7.1 is *not* SACD.

In addition, SACD's are recorded completely differently than a regular
CD. It's complicated and hard to explain but it uses phase modulation
rather than amplitude modulation. Basically, it's much like the
fidelity difference between AM and FM radio. Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz which means it can't
broadcast the full audio frequency spectrum that the human ear can
detect. FM, in addition to being frequency modulated rather than
amplitude modulated has a 200Khz bandwidth.

The only negative about SACD's is the limited number of them available
and the fact that Sony is the only manufacturer of SACD players (last I
knew).



My criteria is how much do the "super" CDs sound like a live concert.
The few I have heard on really good sound systems sound over-engineered
to me, sort of like an AUDI car. They sure as hell don't sound like you
are sitting in the expensive seats at a serious music concert.

On 2/17/2016 1:21 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2016 1:01 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:36:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz

That is why most records made in the 60s and earlier sound like they
do. They were mixed to play on the radio. It wasn't until "hi fi" LPs
came around that you started getting decent sound. Even those got
"remastered" for CDs. When you play old tunes on a good system that
limitation becomes immediately apparent. I doubt the original source
material even exists to remaster them in a lot of cases. I suppose
they can try to expand the sound digitally but it will just be a guess
about what it was supposed to be.



I don't think the old recordings were purposely mixed to play on the
radio. High quality recordings were being made in the 30's and 40's.
They just don't sound very good on AM. Also .. that 10Khz bandwidth
is really only 5Khz available for audio modulation. The 10Khz is the
total of what the allocated spectrum is above and below the carrier
frequency. So, you are only hearing up to 5Khz.


Amplitude modulation

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:36:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2016 12:11 PM, John H. wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxGQ5t4lvI

Enjoy.


Telarc has put out a number of Super Audio CD's, this being one of them.

Hopefully, you have a Super Audio CD player (Sony) and
amplifier/receiver that
will accept it's 6 channel output with each channel having a dedicated,
discrete input. The amp/receiver must be then put in direct, 6 channel
mode, (often called "Multi-Channel Input" driving a main left, main
right, center, left rear, right rear and subwoofer. Most Telarc SACD
are hybrid, meaning they will also play on a conventional CD player but
you will lose superior fidelity of a SACD recording. Conventional,
digital "Surround Sound" ... be it 5.1 or 7.1 is *not* SACD.

In addition, SACD's are recorded completely differently than a regular
CD. It's complicated and hard to explain but it uses phase modulation
rather than amplitude modulation. Basically, it's much like the
fidelity difference between AM and FM radio. Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz which means it can't
broadcast the full audio frequency spectrum that the human ear can
detect. FM, in addition to being frequency modulated rather than
amplitude modulated has a 200Khz bandwidth.

The only negative about SACD's is the limited number of them available
and the fact that Sony is the only manufacturer of SACD players (last I
knew).

Actually, I made a mistake. I should have said the one below was my favorite CD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cseIRp9t5UE

This is the one I've got, thank God, and it plays very well on my Bose stuff. It came
out, I believe, in 1980. Probably before SACD was invented.
--

Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns!

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:38:31 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/17/16 12:36 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2016 12:11 PM, John H. wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxGQ5t4lvI

Enjoy.


Telarc has put out a number of Super Audio CD's, this being one of them.

Hopefully, you have a Super Audio CD player (Sony) and
amplifier/receiver that
will accept it's 6 channel output with each channel having a dedicated,
discrete input. The amp/receiver must be then put in direct, 6 channel
mode, (often called "Multi-Channel Input" driving a main left, main
right, center, left rear, right rear and subwoofer. Most Telarc SACD
are hybrid, meaning they will also play on a conventional CD player but
you will lose superior fidelity of a SACD recording. Conventional,
digital "Surround Sound" ... be it 5.1 or 7.1 is *not* SACD.

In addition, SACD's are recorded completely differently than a regular
CD. It's complicated and hard to explain but it uses phase modulation
rather than amplitude modulation. Basically, it's much like the
fidelity difference between AM and FM radio. Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz which means it can't
broadcast the full audio frequency spectrum that the human ear can
detect. FM, in addition to being frequency modulated rather than
amplitude modulated has a 200Khz bandwidth.

The only negative about SACD's is the limited number of them available
and the fact that Sony is the only manufacturer of SACD players (last I
knew).



My criteria is how much do the "super" CDs sound like a live concert.
The few I have heard on really good sound systems sound over-engineered
to me, sort of like an AUDI car. They sure as hell don't sound like you
are sitting in the expensive seats at a serious music concert.

This one will probably sound much better on our systems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cseIRp9t5UE

--

Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns!

On 2/17/2016 3:21 PM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/17/2016 1:21 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2016 1:01 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:36:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz

That is why most records made in the 60s and earlier sound like they
do. They were mixed to play on the radio. It wasn't until "hi fi" LPs
came around that you started getting decent sound. Even those got
"remastered" for CDs. When you play old tunes on a good system that
limitation becomes immediately apparent. I doubt the original source
material even exists to remaster them in a lot of cases. I suppose
they can try to expand the sound digitally but it will just be a guess
about what it was supposed to be.



I don't think the old recordings were purposely mixed to play on the
radio. High quality recordings were being made in the 30's and 40's.
They just don't sound very good on AM. Also .. that 10Khz bandwidth
is really only 5Khz available for audio modulation. The 10Khz is the
total of what the allocated spectrum is above and below the carrier
frequency. So, you are only hearing up to 5Khz.


Amplitude modulation

AM is "amplitude modulation" however what I was referring to is what
the "modulation" is. AM has a 5khz band for audio, 5Khz on each side of
the carrier freq for a total of 10Khz. For example:

WBZ in Boston transmits on a carrier frequency of 1030Khz. If they
modulate that carrier with a 1hz test tone (audio) the frequencies
received by the AM radio are 1031Khz and 1029Khz. In the old days the
1029Khz would be discarded but I think they use that side of the carrier
freq for station ID info and attempts at AM stereo.

The AM receiver has a "beat frequency oscillator" which is tuned to the
carrier freq of 1030Khz. The oscillator freq (1030Khz) and the received
transmitted freq (with the test tone) are "beat" together in a
superheterodyne circuit which yields the original freqs, the sum of the
freqs and the difference between the freqs. The difference is what is
used, being the 1Khz tone which is sent to the amplifier section and
then to the speaker. But, the maximum *audio* modulation can only be 5Khz.