On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:38:31 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/17/16 12:36 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2016 12:11 PM, John H. wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxGQ5t4lvI

Enjoy.


Telarc has put out a number of Super Audio CD's, this being one of them.

Hopefully, you have a Super Audio CD player (Sony) and
amplifier/receiver that
will accept it's 6 channel output with each channel having a dedicated,
discrete input. The amp/receiver must be then put in direct, 6 channel
mode, (often called "Multi-Channel Input" driving a main left, main
right, center, left rear, right rear and subwoofer. Most Telarc SACD
are hybrid, meaning they will also play on a conventional CD player but
you will lose superior fidelity of a SACD recording. Conventional,
digital "Surround Sound" ... be it 5.1 or 7.1 is *not* SACD.

In addition, SACD's are recorded completely differently than a regular
CD. It's complicated and hard to explain but it uses phase modulation
rather than amplitude modulation. Basically, it's much like the
fidelity difference between AM and FM radio. Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz which means it can't
broadcast the full audio frequency spectrum that the human ear can
detect. FM, in addition to being frequency modulated rather than
amplitude modulated has a 200Khz bandwidth.

The only negative about SACD's is the limited number of them available
and the fact that Sony is the only manufacturer of SACD players (last I
knew).



My criteria is how much do the "super" CDs sound like a live concert.
The few I have heard on really good sound systems sound over-engineered
to me, sort of like an AUDI car. They sure as hell don't sound like you
are sitting in the expensive seats at a serious music concert.

This one will probably sound much better on our systems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cseIRp9t5UE

--

Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns!

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:38:31 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/17/16 12:36 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2016 12:11 PM, John H. wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxGQ5t4lvI

Enjoy.


Telarc has put out a number of Super Audio CD's, this being one of them.

Hopefully, you have a Super Audio CD player (Sony) and
amplifier/receiver that
will accept it's 6 channel output with each channel having a dedicated,
discrete input. The amp/receiver must be then put in direct, 6 channel
mode, (often called "Multi-Channel Input" driving a main left, main
right, center, left rear, right rear and subwoofer. Most Telarc SACD
are hybrid, meaning they will also play on a conventional CD player but
you will lose superior fidelity of a SACD recording. Conventional,
digital "Surround Sound" ... be it 5.1 or 7.1 is *not* SACD.

In addition, SACD's are recorded completely differently than a regular
CD. It's complicated and hard to explain but it uses phase modulation
rather than amplitude modulation. Basically, it's much like the
fidelity difference between AM and FM radio. Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz which means it can't
broadcast the full audio frequency spectrum that the human ear can
detect. FM, in addition to being frequency modulated rather than
amplitude modulated has a 200Khz bandwidth.

The only negative about SACD's is the limited number of them available
and the fact that Sony is the only manufacturer of SACD players (last I
knew).




My criteria is how much do the "super" CDs sound like a live concert.
The few I have heard on really good sound systems sound over-engineered
to me, sort of like an AUDI car. They sure as hell don't sound like you
are sitting in the expensive seats at a serious music concert.

BTW .. a true "audiophile" (which I am *not*) would be dismayed at the
sight of a bass or treble control or any other circuit that "colors" the
sound of the recording. I am not that far gone with this stuff. Living
rooms and listening areas vary acoustically and really can't duplicate a
concert hall or your local live music hot spot.

I've played with audio stuff for years but have pretty much lost
interest in it. I am cleaning out our house and you wouldn't believe
the gear I am tossing. Came across a big box *full* of directional
audio connects that must have cost a fortune to accumulate over the
years. Problem is, I never bought into the "directional" BS to begin
with. The idea is that the capacitive reactance changes along it's
length and the directional cables compensate for any losses.
My problem with that is that at audio frequencies there is *no*
capacitive or inductive reactance generated anyway. At higher freqs ..
like RF ... yes, the transmission line becomes reactive to frequency but
not at audio freqs.

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 17:28:52 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:38:31 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/17/16 12:36 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2016 12:11 PM, John H. wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxGQ5t4lvI

Enjoy.


Telarc has put out a number of Super Audio CD's, this being one of them.

Hopefully, you have a Super Audio CD player (Sony) and
amplifier/receiver that
will accept it's 6 channel output with each channel having a dedicated,
discrete input. The amp/receiver must be then put in direct, 6 channel
mode, (often called "Multi-Channel Input" driving a main left, main
right, center, left rear, right rear and subwoofer. Most Telarc SACD
are hybrid, meaning they will also play on a conventional CD player but
you will lose superior fidelity of a SACD recording. Conventional,
digital "Surround Sound" ... be it 5.1 or 7.1 is *not* SACD.

In addition, SACD's are recorded completely differently than a regular
CD. It's complicated and hard to explain but it uses phase modulation
rather than amplitude modulation. Basically, it's much like the
fidelity difference between AM and FM radio. Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz which means it can't
broadcast the full audio frequency spectrum that the human ear can
detect. FM, in addition to being frequency modulated rather than
amplitude modulated has a 200Khz bandwidth.

The only negative about SACD's is the limited number of them available
and the fact that Sony is the only manufacturer of SACD players (last I
knew).




My criteria is how much do the "super" CDs sound like a live concert.
The few I have heard on really good sound systems sound over-engineered
to me, sort of like an AUDI car. They sure as hell don't sound like you
are sitting in the expensive seats at a serious music concert.

BTW .. a true "audiophile" (which I am *not*) would be dismayed at the
sight of a bass or treble control or any other circuit that "colors" the
sound of the recording. I am not that far gone with this stuff. Living
rooms and listening areas vary acoustically and really can't duplicate a
concert hall or your local live music hot spot.

I've played with audio stuff for years but have pretty much lost
interest in it. I am cleaning out our house and you wouldn't believe
the gear I am tossing. Came across a big box *full* of directional
audio connects that must have cost a fortune to accumulate over the
years. Problem is, I never bought into the "directional" BS to begin
with. The idea is that the capacitive reactance changes along it's
length and the directional cables compensate for any losses.
My problem with that is that at audio frequencies there is *no*
capacitive or inductive reactance generated anyway. At higher freqs ..
like RF ... yes, the transmission line becomes reactive to frequency but
not at audio freqs.


I'm in the market for a new computer sound system. The one I've got now doesn't do
justice to the 'normal' Telarc.
--

Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns!

On 2/17/16 5:28 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:38:31 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/17/16 12:36 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2016 12:11 PM, John H. wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxGQ5t4lvI

Enjoy.


Telarc has put out a number of Super Audio CD's, this being one of
them.

Hopefully, you have a Super Audio CD player (Sony) and
amplifier/receiver that
will accept it's 6 channel output with each channel having a dedicated,
discrete input. The amp/receiver must be then put in direct, 6 channel
mode, (often called "Multi-Channel Input" driving a main left, main
right, center, left rear, right rear and subwoofer. Most Telarc SACD
are hybrid, meaning they will also play on a conventional CD player but
you will lose superior fidelity of a SACD recording. Conventional,
digital "Surround Sound" ... be it 5.1 or 7.1 is *not* SACD.

In addition, SACD's are recorded completely differently than a regular
CD. It's complicated and hard to explain but it uses phase modulation
rather than amplitude modulation. Basically, it's much like the
fidelity difference between AM and FM radio. Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz which means it can't
broadcast the full audio frequency spectrum that the human ear can
detect. FM, in addition to being frequency modulated rather than
amplitude modulated has a 200Khz bandwidth.

The only negative about SACD's is the limited number of them available
and the fact that Sony is the only manufacturer of SACD players (last I
knew).




My criteria is how much do the "super" CDs sound like a live concert.
The few I have heard on really good sound systems sound over-engineered
to me, sort of like an AUDI car. They sure as hell don't sound like you
are sitting in the expensive seats at a serious music concert.

BTW .. a true "audiophile" (which I am *not*) would be dismayed at the
sight of a bass or treble control or any other circuit that "colors" the
sound of the recording. I am not that far gone with this stuff. Living
rooms and listening areas vary acoustically and really can't duplicate a
concert hall or your local live music hot spot.

I've played with audio stuff for years but have pretty much lost
interest in it. I am cleaning out our house and you wouldn't believe
the gear I am tossing. Came across a big box *full* of directional
audio connects that must have cost a fortune to accumulate over the
years. Problem is, I never bought into the "directional" BS to begin
with. The idea is that the capacitive reactance changes along it's
length and the directional cables compensate for any losses.
My problem with that is that at audio frequencies there is *no*
capacitive or inductive reactance generated anyway. At higher freqs ..
like RF ... yes, the transmission line becomes reactive to frequency but
not at audio freqs.



If it sounds good to me, I'm happy with it.

On 2/17/2016 2:38 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/17/16 12:36 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2016 12:11 PM, John H. wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxGQ5t4lvI

Enjoy.


Telarc has put out a number of Super Audio CD's, this being one of them.

Hopefully, you have a Super Audio CD player (Sony) and
amplifier/receiver that
will accept it's 6 channel output with each channel having a dedicated,
discrete input. The amp/receiver must be then put in direct, 6 channel
mode, (often called "Multi-Channel Input" driving a main left, main
right, center, left rear, right rear and subwoofer. Most Telarc SACD
are hybrid, meaning they will also play on a conventional CD player but
you will lose superior fidelity of a SACD recording. Conventional,
digital "Surround Sound" ... be it 5.1 or 7.1 is *not* SACD.

In addition, SACD's are recorded completely differently than a regular
CD. It's complicated and hard to explain but it uses phase modulation
rather than amplitude modulation. Basically, it's much like the
fidelity difference between AM and FM radio. Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz which means it can't
broadcast the full audio frequency spectrum that the human ear can
detect. FM, in addition to being frequency modulated rather than
amplitude modulated has a 200Khz bandwidth.

The only negative about SACD's is the limited number of them available
and the fact that Sony is the only manufacturer of SACD players (last I
knew).



My criteria is how much do the "super" CDs sound like a live concert.
The few I have heard on really good sound systems sound over-engineered
to me, sort of like an AUDI car. They sure as hell don't sound like you
are sitting in the expensive seats at a serious music concert.

A lot of issues there Harry. One is the sound system itself, it's
positioning and how much of a sound stage it can create without benefit
of creative mixing and recording. Also, I really do not care for
surround sound where the rear or side speakers are producing an
unnatural sound stage. You don't sit in the middle of a band or
orchestra when listening to music. The better recordings will capture
the subtle reflections of sound from the rear, and the audio system
needs to be adjusted and set up so they are not exaggerated.

I like simple, 2 channel stereo with well recorded music. A dipole
speaker design ... like your maggies or the Martin Logans I had work
well to produce a sound stage *if* you have them positioned properly.
So will the old Bose 901's when properly set up.

BTW, the sound stage can be 3 dimensional when set up well. Not just
left to right, but fore and aft as well. A well set up system will
create a sound illusion that "places the instruments or vocals.

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 5:01:50 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2016 2:38 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/17/16 12:36 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2016 12:11 PM, John H. wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxGQ5t4lvI

Enjoy.


Telarc has put out a number of Super Audio CD's, this being one of them.

Hopefully, you have a Super Audio CD player (Sony) and
amplifier/receiver that
will accept it's 6 channel output with each channel having a dedicated,
discrete input. The amp/receiver must be then put in direct, 6 channel
mode, (often called "Multi-Channel Input" driving a main left, main
right, center, left rear, right rear and subwoofer. Most Telarc SACD
are hybrid, meaning they will also play on a conventional CD player but
you will lose superior fidelity of a SACD recording. Conventional,
digital "Surround Sound" ... be it 5.1 or 7.1 is *not* SACD.

In addition, SACD's are recorded completely differently than a regular
CD. It's complicated and hard to explain but it uses phase modulation
rather than amplitude modulation. Basically, it's much like the
fidelity difference between AM and FM radio. Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz which means it can't
broadcast the full audio frequency spectrum that the human ear can
detect. FM, in addition to being frequency modulated rather than
amplitude modulated has a 200Khz bandwidth.

The only negative about SACD's is the limited number of them available
and the fact that Sony is the only manufacturer of SACD players (last I
knew).



My criteria is how much do the "super" CDs sound like a live concert.
The few I have heard on really good sound systems sound over-engineered
to me, sort of like an AUDI car. They sure as hell don't sound like you
are sitting in the expensive seats at a serious music concert.

A lot of issues there Harry. One is the sound system itself, it's
positioning and how much of a sound stage it can create without benefit
of creative mixing and recording. Also, I really do not care for
surround sound where the rear or side speakers are producing an
unnatural sound stage. You don't sit in the middle of a band or
orchestra when listening to music. The better recordings will capture
the subtle reflections of sound from the rear, and the audio system
needs to be adjusted and set up so they are not exaggerated.

It's just simple-minded to think that more accurate recordings are "over engineered". They are just more likely to expose the shortcomings of the equipment you are listening to them on, and your ears are fooling you even more to think what you've been hearing in the past is somehow better.

I like simple, 2 channel stereo with well recorded music. A dipole
speaker design ... like your maggies or the Martin Logans I had work
well to produce a sound stage *if* you have them positioned properly.
So will the old Bose 901's when properly set up.

I have to depart from you there. Bose 901s (or any of the Bose stuff) suffers from the "Bose" sound... highly tweaked and compensated. Not a fan at all.

BTW, the sound stage can be 3 dimensional when set up well. Not just
left to right, but fore and aft as well. A well set up system will
create a sound illusion that "places the instruments or vocals.

Yep. Someone can have highly rated and well-thought of equipment, but if it's not staged properly in the listening room, it will fail.

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:36:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2016 12:11 PM, John H. wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxGQ5t4lvI

Enjoy.


Telarc has put out a number of Super Audio CD's, this being one of them.

Hopefully, you have a Super Audio CD player (Sony) and
amplifier/receiver that
will accept it's 6 channel output with each channel having a dedicated,
discrete input. The amp/receiver must be then put in direct, 6 channel
mode, (often called "Multi-Channel Input" driving a main left, main
right, center, left rear, right rear and subwoofer. Most Telarc SACD
are hybrid, meaning they will also play on a conventional CD player but
you will lose superior fidelity of a SACD recording. Conventional,
digital "Surround Sound" ... be it 5.1 or 7.1 is *not* SACD.

In addition, SACD's are recorded completely differently than a regular
CD. It's complicated and hard to explain but it uses phase modulation
rather than amplitude modulation. Basically, it's much like the
fidelity difference between AM and FM radio. Many people don't realize
that AM radio's bandwidth is limited to 10Khz which means it can't
broadcast the full audio frequency spectrum that the human ear can
detect. FM, in addition to being frequency modulated rather than
amplitude modulated has a 200Khz bandwidth.

The only negative about SACD's is the limited number of them available
and the fact that Sony is the only manufacturer of SACD players (last I
knew).

Actually, I made a mistake. I should have said the one below was my favorite CD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cseIRp9t5UE

This is the one I've got, thank God, and it plays very well on my Bose stuff. It came
out, I believe, in 1980. Probably before SACD was invented.
--

Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns!

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:11:40 -0500, John H.
wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxGQ5t4lvI

Enjoy.

===

Thanks John, very nice performance and recording. That work has
always been one of my favorite symphonies. We once saw Leonard
Bernstein conduct it late in his career with the NY Philharmonic at
Lincoln Center.