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This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. |
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On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 11:29:46 AM UTC-6, Mr. Luddite wrote:
This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. At that range if you'd shot it, it would be it's word against yours.. Looked justifiable to me |
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On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 12:29:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Seems like we went through that just the other day! I think a round in the ground would be the best idea, initially. I'd be worried about rabies also, with a wild animal such as a coyote or fox. -- Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns! |
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On 2/9/2016 12:34 PM, Tim wrote:
On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 11:29:46 AM UTC-6, Mr. Luddite wrote: This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. At that range if you'd shot it, it would be it's word against yours.. Looked justifiable to me My question is this though: Let's say a neighbor heard the shot and called the cops. I'd probably be justified in shooting it if I felt threatened by it but I'd also probably get written up for unlawful discharge of a firearm in a residential area. |
Visitor
On 2/9/2016 11:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 12:34 PM, Tim wrote: On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 11:29:46 AM UTC-6, Mr. Luddite wrote: This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. At that range if you'd shot it, it would be it's word against yours.. Looked justifiable to me My question is this though: Let's say a neighbor heard the shot and called the cops. I'd probably be justified in shooting it if I felt threatened by it but I'd also probably get written up for unlawful discharge of a firearm in a residential area. Definitely depends on your state laws... In my state, Coyotes are considered nuisance animals, and there is no restrictions on shooting them on sight. In a residential area, you are covered by self-defense laws if you are in danger of being attacked. Doesn't meant the cops wouldn't give you a hard time about it, though. A little .22 pistol would be pretty quiet and cause neighbors to wonder if it was really a shot they just heard... |
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On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 12:29:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. There are lots of laws you have to consider. I doubt a coyote is protected in any way (an invasive exotic) but you might have issues with "discharge of a firearm" (distance from dwellings etc). You might need a hunting license and there is probably a tree hugger law about "cruelty to animals" in the peoples republic of Massachusetts. I think if I had livestock it was threatening, I would take it. |
Visitor
On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 12:43:41 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 12:29:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Seems like we went through that just the other day! I think a round in the ground would be the best idea, initially. I'd be worried about rabies also, with a wild animal such as a coyote or fox. -- Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns! I'd miss the ground and put it in his head. Coyotes are open season year-round in SC. You can also bait and call them. They have dropped the deer population by 30% or more. They eat the fawns. |
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On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:43:53 -0500, John H.
wrote: Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Seems like we went through that just the other day! I think a round in the ground would be the best idea, initially. I'd be worried about rabies also, with a wild animal such as a coyote or fox. === Once you discharge a firearm in a restricted area you are potentially subject to legal action, so you might as well make it a shot to center of mass. There's less risk of a ricochet that way and you remove the threat. If no one hears and reports the shot, your only problem is disposing of the coyote. |
Visitor
wrote:
On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:43:53 -0500, John H. wrote: Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Seems like we went through that just the other day! I think a round in the ground would be the best idea, initially. I'd be worried about rabies also, with a wild animal such as a coyote or fox. === Once you discharge a firearm in a restricted area you are potentially subject to legal action, so you might as well make it a shot to center of mass. There's less risk of a ricochet that way and you remove the threat. If no one hears and reports the shot, your only problem is disposing of the coyote. Tractor backfired. |
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On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 11:06:55 -0800, Califbill billnews wrote:
wrote: On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:43:53 -0500, John H. wrote: Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Seems like we went through that just the other day! I think a round in the ground would be the best idea, initially. I'd be worried about rabies also, with a wild animal such as a coyote or fox. === Once you discharge a firearm in a restricted area you are potentially subject to legal action, so you might as well make it a shot to center of mass. There's less risk of a ricochet that way and you remove the threat. If no one hears and reports the shot, your only problem is disposing of the coyote. Tractor backfired. === That works if no one sees it and the blood is gone before the cops show up. Once you start tampering and covering up the charges get worse however. |
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On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 12:04:40 PM UTC-6, Ryan P. wrote:
On 2/9/2016 11:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/9/2016 12:34 PM, Tim wrote: On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 11:29:46 AM UTC-6, Mr. Luddite wrote: This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. At that range if you'd shot it, it would be it's word against yours.. Looked justifiable to me My question is this though: Let's say a neighbor heard the shot and called the cops. I'd probably be justified in shooting it if I felt threatened by it but I'd also probably get written up for unlawful discharge of a firearm in a residential area. Definitely depends on your state laws... In my state, Coyotes are considered nuisance animals, and there is no restrictions on shooting them on sight. In a residential area, you are covered by self-defense laws if you are in danger of being attacked. Same here... |
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On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 12:52:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 2/9/2016 12:34 PM, Tim wrote: On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 11:29:46 AM UTC-6, Mr. Luddite wrote: This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. At that range if you'd shot it, it would be it's word against yours.. Looked justifiable to me My question is this though: Let's say a neighbor heard the shot and called the cops. I'd probably be justified in shooting it if I felt threatened by it but I'd also probably get written up for unlawful discharge of a firearm in a residential area. You have to be careful with that too. We had a guy who was charged with shooting a black bear that was chasing him in the yard. Maybe you should talk to Harry's guy and get a suppressor. |
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On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 11:06:55 -0800, Califbill billnews wrote:
wrote: On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:43:53 -0500, John H. wrote: Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Seems like we went through that just the other day! I think a round in the ground would be the best idea, initially. I'd be worried about rabies also, with a wild animal such as a coyote or fox. === Once you discharge a firearm in a restricted area you are potentially subject to legal action, so you might as well make it a shot to center of mass. There's less risk of a ricochet that way and you remove the threat. If no one hears and reports the shot, your only problem is disposing of the coyote. Tractor backfired. I drive enough shot pins around here that people don't even look up most of the time |
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On 2/9/2016 2:06 PM, Califbill wrote:
wrote: On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:43:53 -0500, John H. wrote: Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Seems like we went through that just the other day! I think a round in the ground would be the best idea, initially. I'd be worried about rabies also, with a wild animal such as a coyote or fox. === Once you discharge a firearm in a restricted area you are potentially subject to legal action, so you might as well make it a shot to center of mass. There's less risk of a ricochet that way and you remove the threat. If no one hears and reports the shot, your only problem is disposing of the coyote. Tractor backfired. "Oh, the dog? He's just sleeping". |
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Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:55 PM, wrote: On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 13:24:06 -0500, wrote: On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:43:53 -0500, John H. wrote: Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Seems like we went through that just the other day! I think a round in the ground would be the best idea, initially. I'd be worried about rabies also, with a wild animal such as a coyote or fox. === Once you discharge a firearm in a restricted area you are potentially subject to legal action, so you might as well make it a shot to center of mass. There's less risk of a ricochet that way and you remove the threat. If no one hears and reports the shot, your only problem is disposing of the coyote. SSS Shoot Shovel Shutup You Fla guys don't know much about frozen ground, do ya? Pile snow on top of the "dog". |
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On 2/9/2016 3:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:55 PM, wrote: On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 13:24:06 -0500, wrote: On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:43:53 -0500, John H. wrote: Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Seems like we went through that just the other day! I think a round in the ground would be the best idea, initially. I'd be worried about rabies also, with a wild animal such as a coyote or fox. === Once you discharge a firearm in a restricted area you are potentially subject to legal action, so you might as well make it a shot to center of mass. There's less risk of a ricochet that way and you remove the threat. If no one hears and reports the shot, your only problem is disposing of the coyote. SSS Shoot Shovel Shutup You Fla guys don't know much about frozen ground, do ya? Yeah... not much you could do quickly in a residential area up here in the winter in regards to digging holes. But again, if its in clear self defense, and you tell the LEO that shows up that you were fearful for your life (which is all you should EVER say if you ever shoot your gun outside of a gun range or hunting...), I doubt it would lead to any citations. In my area, there have been enough small pet kills by coyotes recently that anyone who shot one in the city would be thanked. |
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On 2/9/2016 12:29 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Coyotes are a protected species in your state even if it eats your dog or baby. |
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On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 12:29:46 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. One thing no one has mentioned... Coyotes aren't loners. They live in a family unit with at least a mate and possibly more "singles" to assist in hunting. The reproduce in late winter, so you may have a pair bedding down in a den to have pups. They rarely attack humans, but the wolf-coyote hybrid is more likely to attack, and something I read says in general they have become more aggressive because humans aren't harassing them in rural areas very much. Bottom line, if there's one, there's at least two or more. I did a little research recently because I had some that were hanging out in the area. I saw one crossing the road just down from the house. They were driving Buddy, my lab, nuts. They seemed to have moved on for now. |
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On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 12:52:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/9/2016 12:34 PM, Tim wrote: On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 11:29:46 AM UTC-6, Mr. Luddite wrote: This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. At that range if you'd shot it, it would be it's word against yours.. Looked justifiable to me My question is this though: Let's say a neighbor heard the shot and called the cops. I'd probably be justified in shooting it if I felt threatened by it but I'd also probably get written up for unlawful discharge of a firearm in a residential area. I don't think a neighbor would call the cops for one shot. If it was self-defense, how would it be unlawful? -- Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns! |
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On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 10:23:27 -0800 (PST), Its Me wrote:
On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 12:43:41 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote: On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 12:29:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Seems like we went through that just the other day! I think a round in the ground would be the best idea, initially. I'd be worried about rabies also, with a wild animal such as a coyote or fox. -- Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns! I'd miss the ground and put it in his head. Coyotes are open season year-round in SC. You can also bait and call them. They have dropped the deer population by 30% or more. They eat the fawns. They've done the same down in rural Virginia. Ditto with quail. -- Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns! |
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On 2/9/2016 5:35 PM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 12:29 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Coyotes are a protected species in your state even if it eats your dog or baby. I don't think they are protected, even in MA. They have become a nuisance. The laws I checked said it's legal to shoot them *if* you have a hunting license *and* discharging the firearm does not violate any residential area laws. Basically that means firing it within 150 feet of a roadway or firing it within 500 feet of any abutter's property unless you have their permission to do so. Don't think the coyote would be willing to just sit and wait until I go buy the license and then check with a couple of neighbors. :-) Unless the above requirements are met, I think what would happen is the LEO would say "nice shot" and then hit me up with illegal discharge of a firearm and shooting a coyote without a hunting license. Bottom line is: If I had a gun on me and the damn thing attacked, I'd shoot and deal with the details later. |
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On 2/9/2016 6:25 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 12:52:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/9/2016 12:34 PM, Tim wrote: On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 11:29:46 AM UTC-6, Mr. Luddite wrote: This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. At that range if you'd shot it, it would be it's word against yours.. Looked justifiable to me My question is this though: Let's say a neighbor heard the shot and called the cops. I'd probably be justified in shooting it if I felt threatened by it but I'd also probably get written up for unlawful discharge of a firearm in a residential area. I don't think a neighbor would call the cops for one shot. If it was self-defense, how would it be unlawful? Shooting it in self defense would not be unlawful. Discharging a firearm in a residential area within 500 feet of a neighbor's property is. I doubt anyone would complain but the LEO may not agree unless I had their permission first. I only have two neighbors that might be within 500 feet, depending on where I fired the gun. I suppose I could shoot it then drag it somewhere on our 6 acres that is far enough away. But, this is all an exercise anyway. If I were carrying a gun and the coyote attacked ... I guarantee I'd shoot it. |
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On Tuesday, 9 February 2016 19:45:13 UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 5:35 PM, Justan Olphart wrote: On 2/9/2016 12:29 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Coyotes are a protected species in your state even if it eats your dog or baby. I don't think they are protected, even in MA. They have become a nuisance. The laws I checked said it's legal to shoot them *if* you have a hunting license *and* discharging the firearm does not violate any residential area laws. Basically that means firing it within 150 feet of a roadway or firing it within 500 feet of any abutter's property unless you have their permission to do so. Don't think the coyote would be willing to just sit and wait until I go buy the license and then check with a couple of neighbors. :-) Unless the above requirements are met, I think what would happen is the LEO would say "nice shot" and then hit me up with illegal discharge of a firearm and shooting a coyote without a hunting license. Bottom line is: If I had a gun on me and the damn thing attacked, I'd shoot and deal with the details later. I'm almost sure I saw one down at Point Pleasant Park last week. I was walking my Springer on a quiet path when I saw a dingy gray looking animal ahead. It was either a small coyote or a good sized fox. He was gone by the time I got there. |
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On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 16:39:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 2/9/2016 3:55 PM, wrote: On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 13:24:06 -0500, wrote: On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:43:53 -0500, John H. wrote: Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Seems like we went through that just the other day! I think a round in the ground would be the best idea, initially. I'd be worried about rabies also, with a wild animal such as a coyote or fox. === Once you discharge a firearm in a restricted area you are potentially subject to legal action, so you might as well make it a shot to center of mass. There's less risk of a ricochet that way and you remove the threat. If no one hears and reports the shot, your only problem is disposing of the coyote. SSS Shoot Shovel Shutup You Fla guys don't know much about frozen ground, do ya? Frozen ground? I have not heard of this thing. ;-) Bury it in the snow and plow another few feet over it. Worry about it in April or May. .... or just put it in the bed of the truck and kick it out on the side of the road. |
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On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 8:23:57 PM UTC-5, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Sounds like Harry - who once said he carried because of "dog packs." I can't imagine being attacked by a coyote. They are naturally fearful of me, with good reason. Dogs too. Heh. You've stated you don't have a gun. A good sized dog or a couple of hungry, crazy coyotes would mess up your month (or two), if not worse. They hunt for their food. You hunt at the grocery store. You aren't as bad as you think you are. |
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On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 18:28:08 -0500, John H.
wrote: Not much of a ricochet from dirt. === You'd be surprised. There have a lot of weird ricochet accidents over the years. |
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On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 15:56:02 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote: On Tuesday, 9 February 2016 19:45:13 UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/9/2016 5:35 PM, Justan Olphart wrote: On 2/9/2016 12:29 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Coyotes are a protected species in your state even if it eats your dog or baby. I don't think they are protected, even in MA. They have become a nuisance. The laws I checked said it's legal to shoot them *if* you have a hunting license *and* discharging the firearm does not violate any residential area laws. Basically that means firing it within 150 feet of a roadway or firing it within 500 feet of any abutter's property unless you have their permission to do so. Don't think the coyote would be willing to just sit and wait until I go buy the license and then check with a couple of neighbors. :-) Unless the above requirements are met, I think what would happen is the LEO would say "nice shot" and then hit me up with illegal discharge of a firearm and shooting a coyote without a hunting license. Bottom line is: If I had a gun on me and the damn thing attacked, I'd shoot and deal with the details later. I'm almost sure I saw one down at Point Pleasant Park last week. I was walking my Springer on a quiet path when I saw a dingy gray looking animal ahead. It was either a small coyote or a good sized fox. He was gone by the time I got there. === When we lived in the northeast our house was less than 5 miles from the New York City limits. We used to see both coyotes and foxes from time to time. |
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On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 20:58:31 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:
Luddite knew it was a coyote because of the tag around its neck that said "Wile" .... and the Acme jet pack. |
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On 2/9/2016 8:58 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/9/16 8:23 PM, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Sounds like Harry - who once said he carried because of "dog packs." I can't imagine being attacked by a coyote. They are naturally fearful of me, with good reason. Dogs too. Excepting Chihuahuas. Tiny dogs are stupid. I have one. Instead of "booking" it into the garage, you should have just growled at it as you approached it. Make a fist too. Would have sent it away with its tail tucked. Bears are another story. Luddite knew it was a coyote because of the tag around its neck that said "Wile" I open carried out in the Shenandoah area because of verified reports of feral dog attacks. Do you open carry in DC because of the daily reports of shootings, muggings, rape, armed robbery etc. there? No you don't, but you cowboy up out in the woods because of an occasional stray dog incident? You are terribly inconsistent Krausie baby. |
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On 2/9/2016 8:23 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Sounds like Harry - who once said he carried because of "dog packs." I can't imagine being attacked by a coyote. They are naturally fearful of me, with good reason. Dogs too. Excepting Chihuahuas. Tiny dogs are stupid. I have one. Instead of "booking" it into the garage, you should have just growled at it as you approached it. Make a fist too. Would have sent it away with its tail tucked. Bears are another story. You might want to consider doing some reading on a subject before you shoot your mouth off. Attacks on humans are rare but they occur. Coyotes have lost their fear of humans in many areas (including around here) due to over population and regular encounters. They are also disease ridden due to their diet. I am sure a coyote would understand what making a fist was all about, eh? |
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On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 20:58:31 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/9/16 8:23 PM, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Sounds like Harry - who once said he carried because of "dog packs." I can't imagine being attacked by a coyote. They are naturally fearful of me, with good reason. Dogs too. Excepting Chihuahuas. Tiny dogs are stupid. I have one. Instead of "booking" it into the garage, you should have just growled at it as you approached it. Make a fist too. Would have sent it away with its tail tucked. Bears are another story. Luddite knew it was a coyote because of the tag around its neck that said "Wile" I open carried out in the Shenandoah area because of verified reports of feral dog attacks. ....but mostly to impress the good ol' boys, eh? -- Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns! |
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On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 22:41:58 -0500, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:58 PM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 2/9/16 8:23 PM, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... This was a little unnerving .... Our horse barn is about 175 feet down the driveway from our house. It has a small, two car garage attached to it where I keep the tractor in the winter. I had finished up plowing the driveway with the truck and decided to walk down to the barn to get the tractor and do a little clean up work. Got halfway down to the barn when suddenly a coyote came trotting out of the woods beside the house. I stopped. It stopped ... about 20 feet away and we just stared at each other. It showed absolutely no fear of me. It kept looking at me, then in the direction it had been going (towards the barn and garage) and then back at me again. I just stood there. It finally started moving slowly towards the garage but then stopped, turned and started walking back directly towards me. My first thought was that my gun was back in the house. It stopped again about 20 feet away and we stared at each other again for about 30 seconds then it moved on towards the garage. So, I slowly followed it, around the corner and then realized that one of the garage doors was open. (I had been in there earlier). My thought was that it had gone in the garage. Walked up slowly and looked around ... no coyote. Turned around and there he was again, standing behind me, again about 20, maybe 30 feet away. I booked it into the garage, pulled the door down fast and watched him through one of the door windows. He finally lost interest and trotted off towards my neighbor's house. They raise chickens. I think they will need to do a head count tonight. Made me think about what would happen if I had a gun and I was forced to shoot it if it had attacked or become more threatening. Need to check up on the laws about that. Sounds like Harry - who once said he carried because of "dog packs." I can't imagine being attacked by a coyote. They are naturally fearful of me, with good reason. Dogs too. Excepting Chihuahuas. Tiny dogs are stupid. I have one. Instead of "booking" it into the garage, you should have just growled at it as you approached it. Make a fist too. Would have sent it away with its tail tucked. Bears are another story. Luddite knew it was a coyote because of the tag around its neck that said "Wile" I open carried out in the Shenandoah area because of verified reports of feral dog attacks. Do you open carry in DC because of the daily reports of shootings, muggings, rape, armed robbery etc. there? No you don't, but you cowboy up out in the woods because of an occasional stray dog incident? You are terribly inconsistent Krausie baby. As you should know by now, complaining of the shootings, muggings, rape, murders, and armed robberies in DC is as racist as mentioning Chicago. For shame. -- Ban liars, tax cheats, idiots, and narcissists...not guns! |
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