On 2/9/2016 7:37 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last
Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the
decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.


This smacks of bean counters overruling or pressuring the ship's captain
as to getting underway or not from New Jersey. To take a so called ship
like that out full of 1,000's of passengers and head directly into 30
foot confused seas and hurricane force winds is beyond negligent IMO.
It's not like it was one of those sudden, surprise hurricanes that
Skipper used to sail his Bayliner into. Knowledge of this storm had been
well established, including it's severity by the National Weather
Service days before it left. Guy should be stripped of his license and
the bean counters should be fired.



No one outranks the captain. Even bean counters.

Once the boat is underway, that is correct... However, the captain can
always be fired for refusing to take the ship out, which is likely what
would have happened if he defied the bean counters.

On 2/9/2016 7:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.

Not that I'll argue with you too much on the point that not enough
people are fired that deserve to be, but I do highly doubt the ship was
American flagged. Almost no cruise ships are, which means they aren't
subject to any US regulations that somebody would care to try to enforce.

On 2/9/2016 11:11 AM, Ryan P. wrote:
On 2/9/2016 7:37 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last
Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the
decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.


This smacks of bean counters overruling or pressuring the ship's captain
as to getting underway or not from New Jersey. To take a so called ship
like that out full of 1,000's of passengers and head directly into 30
foot confused seas and hurricane force winds is beyond negligent IMO.
It's not like it was one of those sudden, surprise hurricanes that
Skipper used to sail his Bayliner into. Knowledge of this storm had been
well established, including it's severity by the National Weather
Service days before it left. Guy should be stripped of his license and
the bean counters should be fired.



No one outranks the captain. Even bean counters.

Once the boat is underway, that is correct... However, the captain can
always be fired for refusing to take the ship out, which is likely what
would have happened if he defied the bean counters.

You have to do what your heart tells you. Obviously the captain's heart
made the wrong choice. I wouldn't knowingly put my life in his hands.

On 2/9/2016 11:24 AM, Ryan P. wrote:
On 2/9/2016 7:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.

Not that I'll argue with you too much on the point that not enough
people are fired that deserve to be, but I do highly doubt the ship was
American flagged. Almost no cruise ships are, which means they aren't
subject to any US regulations that somebody would care to try to enforce.
Government regulations make it difficult for corporations to survive and
prosper in America. Maritime law is not country specific. I was just
throwing a little barb at the progressive liberal bent this country has
taken.

On 2/9/2016 8:37 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last
Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the
decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.


This smacks of bean counters overruling or pressuring the ship's captain
as to getting underway or not from New Jersey. To take a so called ship
like that out full of 1,000's of passengers and head directly into 30
foot confused seas and hurricane force winds is beyond negligent IMO.
It's not like it was one of those sudden, surprise hurricanes that
Skipper used to sail his Bayliner into. Knowledge of this storm had been
well established, including it's severity by the National Weather
Service days before it left. Guy should be stripped of his license and
the bean counters should be fired.




No one outranks the captain. Even bean counters.

The "Captain" is almost always outranked by someone.
The cruise lines have management to whom the Captain reports.
The Navy has Admirals who issue sailing orders to ships.
The only thing the Captain has uniquely is ultimate responsibility for
the ship, crew and passengers if it carries them. In other words, if
the **** hits the fan, the Captain gets the blame.

On 2/9/2016 12:02 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:37 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last
Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the
decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.


This smacks of bean counters overruling or pressuring the ship's captain
as to getting underway or not from New Jersey. To take a so called ship
like that out full of 1,000's of passengers and head directly into 30
foot confused seas and hurricane force winds is beyond negligent IMO.
It's not like it was one of those sudden, surprise hurricanes that
Skipper used to sail his Bayliner into. Knowledge of this storm had been
well established, including it's severity by the National Weather
Service days before it left. Guy should be stripped of his license and
the bean counters should be fired.




No one outranks the captain. Even bean counters.

The "Captain" is almost always outranked by someone.
The cruise lines have management to whom the Captain reports.
The Navy has Admirals who issue sailing orders to ships.
The only thing the Captain has uniquely is ultimate responsibility for
the ship, crew and passengers if it carries them. In other words, if
the **** hits the fan, the Captain gets the blame.





Essentially what I said.

On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 10:55:18 -0500,
wrote:


We've only been on two of the big cruise ship lines - Royal Caribbean
and Princess. I thought they both did a good job but that's a limited
sample size.

When cruises were the go to sales prize in the AC biz, we went on a
lot of them. I joked that I had more sea time on cruise ships than I
got in the puddle pirates. The pick of the litter for me was Holland
America (small ships). Carnival is just that, like going to a
carnival, particularly the food but also the atmosphere.

On 2/9/2016 10:42 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 11:24 AM, Ryan P. wrote:
On 2/9/2016 7:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last
Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the
decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.

Not that I'll argue with you too much on the point that not enough
people are fired that deserve to be, but I do highly doubt the ship was
American flagged. Almost no cruise ships are, which means they aren't
subject to any US regulations that somebody would care to try to enforce.
Government regulations make it difficult for corporations to survive and
prosper in America. Maritime law is not country specific. I was just
throwing a little barb at the progressive liberal bent this country has
taken.

Again, no argument from me.

The captain who knowingly took the boat out in dangerous conditions
should lose his job. Whoever ordered him to do so should lose their job
as well.