Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.

On 2/9/2016 8:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.


This smacks of bean counters overruling or pressuring the ship's captain
as to getting underway or not from New Jersey. To take a so called ship
like that out full of 1,000's of passengers and head directly into 30
foot confused seas and hurricane force winds is beyond negligent IMO.
It's not like it was one of those sudden, surprise hurricanes that
Skipper used to sail his Bayliner into. Knowledge of this storm had been
well established, including it's severity by the National Weather
Service days before it left. Guy should be stripped of his license and
the bean counters should be fired.

On 2/9/2016 8:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.


This smacks of bean counters overruling or pressuring the ship's captain
as to getting underway or not from New Jersey. To take a so called ship
like that out full of 1,000's of passengers and head directly into 30
foot confused seas and hurricane force winds is beyond negligent IMO.
It's not like it was one of those sudden, surprise hurricanes that
Skipper used to sail his Bayliner into. Knowledge of this storm had been
well established, including it's severity by the National Weather
Service days before it left. Guy should be stripped of his license and
the bean counters should be fired.



No one outranks the captain. Even bean counters.

On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 08:37:04 -0500, Justan Olphart
wrote:

On 2/9/2016 8:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.


This smacks of bean counters overruling or pressuring the ship's captain
as to getting underway or not from New Jersey. To take a so called ship
like that out full of 1,000's of passengers and head directly into 30
foot confused seas and hurricane force winds is beyond negligent IMO.
It's not like it was one of those sudden, surprise hurricanes that
Skipper used to sail his Bayliner into. Knowledge of this storm had been
well established, including it's severity by the National Weather
Service days before it left. Guy should be stripped of his license and
the bean counters should be fired.



No one outranks the captain. Even bean counters.

===

The captain is caught between a rock and a hard place in a situation
like that. Clearly his first responsibility is to the safety of the
passengers, crew and ship. However, if he butts heads with the home
office, his future employment is at risk. It was an expensive mistake
by someone, many millions no doubt, not to mention the bad publicity.

On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 08:37:04 -0500, Justan Olphart
wrote:

On 2/9/2016 8:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.


This smacks of bean counters overruling or pressuring the ship's captain
as to getting underway or not from New Jersey. To take a so called ship
like that out full of 1,000's of passengers and head directly into 30
foot confused seas and hurricane force winds is beyond negligent IMO.
It's not like it was one of those sudden, surprise hurricanes that
Skipper used to sail his Bayliner into. Knowledge of this storm had been
well established, including it's severity by the National Weather
Service days before it left. Guy should be stripped of his license and
the bean counters should be fired.



No one outranks the captain. Even bean counters.

But the bean counters can still fire the captain.

I agree with Richard, this is like the Faro. Somebody sitting in an
office told him to go. The captain may have still been culpable tho
since he can say no. The CG said the ship itself was never in danger
but those cruise liners look pretty "tippy" to me. I think if you get
sideways to the sea, they will go over.
My first thought was what would the Coast Guard do if there was a
total loss of the ship. With 3000+ people on board, they don't have
enough assets to carry them all to shore.

On 2/9/2016 7:37 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last
Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the
decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.


This smacks of bean counters overruling or pressuring the ship's captain
as to getting underway or not from New Jersey. To take a so called ship
like that out full of 1,000's of passengers and head directly into 30
foot confused seas and hurricane force winds is beyond negligent IMO.
It's not like it was one of those sudden, surprise hurricanes that
Skipper used to sail his Bayliner into. Knowledge of this storm had been
well established, including it's severity by the National Weather
Service days before it left. Guy should be stripped of his license and
the bean counters should be fired.



No one outranks the captain. Even bean counters.

Once the boat is underway, that is correct... However, the captain can
always be fired for refusing to take the ship out, which is likely what
would have happened if he defied the bean counters.

On 2/9/2016 11:11 AM, Ryan P. wrote:
On 2/9/2016 7:37 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last
Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the
decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.


This smacks of bean counters overruling or pressuring the ship's captain
as to getting underway or not from New Jersey. To take a so called ship
like that out full of 1,000's of passengers and head directly into 30
foot confused seas and hurricane force winds is beyond negligent IMO.
It's not like it was one of those sudden, surprise hurricanes that
Skipper used to sail his Bayliner into. Knowledge of this storm had been
well established, including it's severity by the National Weather
Service days before it left. Guy should be stripped of his license and
the bean counters should be fired.



No one outranks the captain. Even bean counters.

Once the boat is underway, that is correct... However, the captain can
always be fired for refusing to take the ship out, which is likely what
would have happened if he defied the bean counters.

You have to do what your heart tells you. Obviously the captain's heart
made the wrong choice. I wouldn't knowingly put my life in his hands.

On 2/9/2016 8:37 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last
Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the
decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.


This smacks of bean counters overruling or pressuring the ship's captain
as to getting underway or not from New Jersey. To take a so called ship
like that out full of 1,000's of passengers and head directly into 30
foot confused seas and hurricane force winds is beyond negligent IMO.
It's not like it was one of those sudden, surprise hurricanes that
Skipper used to sail his Bayliner into. Knowledge of this storm had been
well established, including it's severity by the National Weather
Service days before it left. Guy should be stripped of his license and
the bean counters should be fired.




No one outranks the captain. Even bean counters.

The "Captain" is almost always outranked by someone.
The cruise lines have management to whom the Captain reports.
The Navy has Admirals who issue sailing orders to ships.
The only thing the Captain has uniquely is ultimate responsibility for
the ship, crew and passengers if it carries them. In other words, if
the **** hits the fan, the Captain gets the blame.

On 2/9/2016 12:02 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:37 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2016 8:14 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2016 3:52 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

Saw this discussed on "The Weather Channel". They were basically
saying "BS" to the claims by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines that
the "Anthem of the Seas" was caught in an "unexpected large storm".

TWC showed National Weather Service forecasts as early as last
Wednesday
that accurately forecast the storm and it's severity forming, well
before the ship left New Jersey headed for Florida en-route to the
Bahamas. The ship sailed right into 30+ foot seas and hurricane force
winds.

The Weather Channel meteorologists were at a loss as to why the
decision
was made for the cruise ship to sail anyway, especially along it's
intended course off of Cape Hatteras where the storm had already
formed and was situated.


http://tinyurl.com/jov5edb

As with the ship of state, when things go terribly wrong due to bad
judgement, the captain should be fired. But, it seems, that's not the
American way lately.


This smacks of bean counters overruling or pressuring the ship's captain
as to getting underway or not from New Jersey. To take a so called ship
like that out full of 1,000's of passengers and head directly into 30
foot confused seas and hurricane force winds is beyond negligent IMO.
It's not like it was one of those sudden, surprise hurricanes that
Skipper used to sail his Bayliner into. Knowledge of this storm had been
well established, including it's severity by the National Weather
Service days before it left. Guy should be stripped of his license and
the bean counters should be fired.




No one outranks the captain. Even bean counters.

The "Captain" is almost always outranked by someone.
The cruise lines have management to whom the Captain reports.
The Navy has Admirals who issue sailing orders to ships.
The only thing the Captain has uniquely is ultimate responsibility for
the ship, crew and passengers if it carries them. In other words, if
the **** hits the fan, the Captain gets the blame.





Essentially what I said.