On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 16:42:35 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 12:30:44 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/15/2016 12:22 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/15/16 12:19 PM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"About six months ago, we got my wife a new car, maybe one step up from
your basic compact. We shopped five or six dealers, looking at several
brands of four door sedans, including two "fancy lines." She ending up
liking the Toyota Camry best because "it's a simple car, well-made, nice
ride, and peppy." I was pretty surprised at how well it performs, since
she opted for the naturally aspirated four cylinder engine."

Too bad Toyota discontinued the V6 when they redesigned the Camry four
or five years ago. It's a nice engine...plenty for my Highlander, the
way I drive. Not sure if Camry has gone to the CVT type transmission
yet. That seems to be the future but I'm not convinced the slightly
better gas mileage is worth any negative traits...such as when towing
etc.


I think you can get a V6 in the Camry but once my wife test drove the
Camry with the 4, she was "decided." On a recent long drive on I-95, she
was able to average 38 and 40 mpg at 70 mph.


Assuming they have a history of being reliable, I think the best
combination is a small 4 banger with a turbo. The turbo adds plenty of
pep when you need it but you don't have to get on it when you are just
driving normally. Some of the turbo 4 cylinders can challenge the
performance of a V8 in some cars.

My driving habits have changed a great deal in the past few years.
I don't drive fast ... I don't accelerate any faster than necessary ...
and I am not in a big hurry to get anywhere anymore. Had my fun with
the M5, Porsche and big old American muscle cars but I am over them.


Like my wife's VW Jetta. 1.4L Turbo-diesel. Quick little bugger.

===

Diesels have huge torque when the turbo kicks in. My wife's M-B is a
3.2L turbo diesel and it's amazing. Torque peaks out at something
like 400 ft/lbs which is more than the V8 in my Tundra.

On 1/15/2016 12:01 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/15/16 11:47 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/15/2016 11:21 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/15/16 11:09 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 05:05:07 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

Yup..if she was driving a basic compact car she would probably have
had a better feel for what was going on.

The Mountaineer is basically the same vehicle as the "Roll Me Another
One" Explorer so it could get exciting.



About six months ago, we got my wife a new car, maybe one step up from
your basic compact. We shopped five or six dealers, looking at several
brands of four door sedans, including two "fancy lines." She ending up
liking the Toyota Camry best because "it's a simple car, well-made, nice
ride, and peppy." I was pretty surprised at how well it performs, since
she opted for the naturally aspirated four cylinder engine.



If this house deal goes through and I find myself in a position where I
don't need a big truck for plowing or towing, I'll probably look for a
small, economical car like the Camry. Haven't done a lot of looking or
researching yet but I wouldn't mind getting something smaller as long as
it is comfortable. The Mini Cooper I had a year or so ago was a lot
of fun to drive but it was like riding on a high performance roller
skate. I can't imagine taking a long distance trip in it.

Kinda like the looks of the Ford Fusion also but don't know much about
them. Only problem with the imports ... Toyota, Nissan, etc., is that
they all look the same to me. And most I see are grey for some reason.


The Camry sits a bit higher than the Nissan competitors and therefore is
better for a taller person. You are right, though...most of the cars in
this category look pretty much the same.

My wife's is "blu-ish grey."

We had a whitish one many years ago. never had a problem except the wife
kept knocking the mirrors off. Traded it with over 200000 on the clock.
The dealer said the car was heading for South America where nice high
mileage used cars get more money.

On 1/15/2016 1:35 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/15/2016 1:12 PM, wrote:
On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 12:28:15 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 11:47:10 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/15/2016 11:21 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/15/16 11:09 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 05:05:07 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

Yup..if she was driving a basic compact car she would probably have
had a better feel for what was going on.

The Mountaineer is basically the same vehicle as the "Roll Me Another
One" Explorer so it could get exciting.



About six months ago, we got my wife a new car, maybe one step up from
your basic compact. We shopped five or six dealers, looking at several
brands of four door sedans, including two "fancy lines." She ending up
liking the Toyota Camry best because "it's a simple car, well-made,
nice
ride, and peppy." I was pretty surprised at how well it performs,
since
she opted for the naturally aspirated four cylinder engine.



If this house deal goes through and I find myself in a position where I
don't need a big truck for plowing or towing, I'll probably look for a
small, economical car like the Camry. Haven't done a lot of looking or
researching yet but I wouldn't mind getting something smaller as
long as
it is comfortable. The Mini Cooper I had a year or so ago was a lot
of fun to drive but it was like riding on a high performance roller
skate. I can't imagine taking a long distance trip in it.

Kinda like the looks of the Ford Fusion also but don't know much about
them. Only problem with the imports ... Toyota, Nissan, etc., is that
they all look the same to me. And most I see are grey for some reason.

===

The most comfortable car we've ever owned is my wife's M-B E320. It's
just super in every way - smooth, quiet, powerful and great seats.
Consumer Reports rated it as one of the best cars they've ever driven.

My wife had one for a company car for a while. She liked it, but I
didn't. Too soft and no fun to drive. Her favorite was the Lexus
LS460. I hated driving it, but it was nice to be a passenger,
especially on a long trip.

She had an A6 Quattro, and that's what introduced me to them. I've
had two since then, currently still driving the second one. Love
them. Comfortable, sporty, quick, and sure-footed with the quattro
system.



How's the service availability? That's one thing I learned about having
some of the nicer, performance orientated, foreign made cars.

For example, the BMW M5 called for special oil that was only available
at the BMW dealership.
Wasn't a big deal since oil changes were covered but if you were
traveling and needed a quart (the M5 *did* use some oil, especially
during break in) you would have to hunt for a BMW service place.

The other thing I disliked about the BMW M5 was the very specific and
long break in procedure. RPM was limited for the first 1,200 or 1,500
miles and then a gradual allowance to start "getting on it" until you
had about 3,000 miles on it. The computer in the car recorded any
violations of the procedure so, in the event of a problem, they could
point their finger at you. Biggest problem for me was I had to go
through this twice. They took back the first M5 I had due to many
computer software problems. They assured me that the second one (same
year but built 7 months later) had all the issues sorted out. They lied.


My next door neighbor has one. hers just stops running for no reason. No
codes. The dealer doesn't know what happened.

On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 5:08:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 16:42:35 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 12:30:44 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/15/2016 12:22 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/15/16 12:19 PM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"About six months ago, we got my wife a new car, maybe one step up from
your basic compact. We shopped five or six dealers, looking at several
brands of four door sedans, including two "fancy lines." She ending up
liking the Toyota Camry best because "it's a simple car, well-made, nice
ride, and peppy." I was pretty surprised at how well it performs, since
she opted for the naturally aspirated four cylinder engine."

Too bad Toyota discontinued the V6 when they redesigned the Camry four
or five years ago. It's a nice engine...plenty for my Highlander, the
way I drive. Not sure if Camry has gone to the CVT type transmission
yet. That seems to be the future but I'm not convinced the slightly
better gas mileage is worth any negative traits...such as when towing
etc.


I think you can get a V6 in the Camry but once my wife test drove the
Camry with the 4, she was "decided." On a recent long drive on I-95, she
was able to average 38 and 40 mpg at 70 mph.


Assuming they have a history of being reliable, I think the best
combination is a small 4 banger with a turbo. The turbo adds plenty of
pep when you need it but you don't have to get on it when you are just
driving normally. Some of the turbo 4 cylinders can challenge the
performance of a V8 in some cars.

My driving habits have changed a great deal in the past few years.
I don't drive fast ... I don't accelerate any faster than necessary ...
and I am not in a big hurry to get anywhere anymore. Had my fun with
the M5, Porsche and big old American muscle cars but I am over them.


Like my wife's VW Jetta. 1.4L Turbo-diesel. Quick little bugger.

===

Diesels have huge torque when the turbo kicks in. My wife's M-B is a
3.2L turbo diesel and it's amazing. Torque peaks out at something
like 400 ft/lbs which is more than the V8 in my Tundra.

Last time I took the A6 in for scheduled service, the loaner was an A6 with the TDI diesel (mine has the supercharged V6). That thing wasn't quite as quick off the line, but it pulled like a freight train! I can get 26-28 mpg at 75 or so, but I hear reports of the TDIs getting in the mid to upper 30's. It would take a l-o-n-g time to recoup the diff in price.

On 1/15/2016 5:08 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 16:42:35 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 12:30:44 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/15/2016 12:22 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/15/16 12:19 PM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"About six months ago, we got my wife a new car, maybe one step up from
your basic compact. We shopped five or six dealers, looking at several
brands of four door sedans, including two "fancy lines." She ending up
liking the Toyota Camry best because "it's a simple car, well-made, nice
ride, and peppy." I was pretty surprised at how well it performs, since
she opted for the naturally aspirated four cylinder engine."

Too bad Toyota discontinued the V6 when they redesigned the Camry four
or five years ago. It's a nice engine...plenty for my Highlander, the
way I drive. Not sure if Camry has gone to the CVT type transmission
yet. That seems to be the future but I'm not convinced the slightly
better gas mileage is worth any negative traits...such as when towing
etc.


I think you can get a V6 in the Camry but once my wife test drove the
Camry with the 4, she was "decided." On a recent long drive on I-95, she
was able to average 38 and 40 mpg at 70 mph.


Assuming they have a history of being reliable, I think the best
combination is a small 4 banger with a turbo. The turbo adds plenty of
pep when you need it but you don't have to get on it when you are just
driving normally. Some of the turbo 4 cylinders can challenge the
performance of a V8 in some cars.

My driving habits have changed a great deal in the past few years.
I don't drive fast ... I don't accelerate any faster than necessary ...
and I am not in a big hurry to get anywhere anymore. Had my fun with
the M5, Porsche and big old American muscle cars but I am over them.


Like my wife's VW Jetta. 1.4L Turbo-diesel. Quick little bugger.

===

Diesels have huge torque when the turbo kicks in. My wife's M-B is a
3.2L turbo diesel and it's amazing. Torque peaks out at something
like 400 ft/lbs which is more than the V8 in my Tundra.



I've often wondered why a diesel-electric for cars hasn't been explored.
Diesel engines are most efficient running at a constant RPM which is
optimized by it's load. It was never really intended to be a varying
RPM engine like a gas engine. Think diesel-electric locomotives where
the engine is constantly at a given RPM, regardless of speed. If it's
running RPM was optimized for the average draw of an electric motor
(which develops max torque at zero RPM) it should be very economical to
run. VW has done some research and has a prototype (although very
small) that can get 261 mpg. Seems like a goal of 50 to 60 mpg in an
auto that could carry a family of four would be realistic. The diesel
engine itself would not be very big.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/15/2016 11:21 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/15/16 11:09 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 05:05:07 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

Yup..if she was driving a basic compact car she would probably have
had a better feel for what was going on.

The Mountaineer is basically the same vehicle as the "Roll Me Another
One" Explorer so it could get exciting.



About six months ago, we got my wife a new car, maybe one step up from
your basic compact. We shopped five or six dealers, looking at several
brands of four door sedans, including two "fancy lines." She ending up
liking the Toyota Camry best because "it's a simple car, well-made, nice
ride, and peppy." I was pretty surprised at how well it performs, since
she opted for the naturally aspirated four cylinder engine.



If this house deal goes through and I find myself in a position where I
don't need a big truck for plowing or towing, I'll probably look for a
small, economical car like the Camry. Haven't done a lot of looking or
researching yet but I wouldn't mind getting something smaller as long as
it is comfortable. The Mini Cooper I had a year or so ago was a lot
of fun to drive but it was like riding on a high performance roller
skate. I can't imagine taking a long distance trip in it.

Kinda like the looks of the Ford Fusion also but don't know much about
them. Only problem with the imports ... Toyota, Nissan, etc., is that
they all look the same to me. And most I see are grey for some reason.


Depends on your height. My wife is 5'10 and the Camry roof line inside hit
her hair. She liked the Venza which is really station wagon Camry.
Roofline is moe like a Highlander. Problem with the Highlander is the
visibility to the rear. The seat backs are in the way of the rear view
mirror.

wrote:
On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 12:28:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 11:47:10 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/15/2016 11:21 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/15/16 11:09 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 05:05:07 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

Yup..if she was driving a basic compact car she would probably have
had a better feel for what was going on.

The Mountaineer is basically the same vehicle as the "Roll Me Another
One" Explorer so it could get exciting.



About six months ago, we got my wife a new car, maybe one step up from
your basic compact. We shopped five or six dealers, looking at several
brands of four door sedans, including two "fancy lines." She ending up
liking the Toyota Camry best because "it's a simple car, well-made, nice
ride, and peppy." I was pretty surprised at how well it performs, since
she opted for the naturally aspirated four cylinder engine.



If this house deal goes through and I find myself in a position where I
don't need a big truck for plowing or towing, I'll probably look for a
small, economical car like the Camry. Haven't done a lot of looking or
researching yet but I wouldn't mind getting something smaller as long as
it is comfortable. The Mini Cooper I had a year or so ago was a lot
of fun to drive but it was like riding on a high performance roller
skate. I can't imagine taking a long distance trip in it.

Kinda like the looks of the Ford Fusion also but don't know much about
them. Only problem with the imports ... Toyota, Nissan, etc., is that
they all look the same to me. And most I see are grey for some reason.

==
The most comfortable car we've ever owned is my wife's M-B E320. It's
just super in every way - smooth, quiet, powerful and great seats.
Consumer Reports rated it as one of the best cars they've ever driven.

My wife had one for a company car for a while. She liked it, but I
didn't. Too soft and no fun to drive. Her favorite was the Lexus LS460.
I hated driving it, but it was nice to be a passenger, especially on a long trip.

She had an A6 Quattro, and that's what introduced me to them. I've had
two since then, currently still driving the second one. Love them.
Comfortable, sporty, quick, and sure-footed with the quattro system.


Our friend said her next car was going to be a Mercedes. They always seem
to have the right of way.

wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 13:35:16 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/15/2016 1:12 PM, wrote:
On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 12:28:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 11:47:10 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/15/2016 11:21 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/15/16 11:09 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 05:05:07 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

Yup..if she was driving a basic compact car she would probably have
had a better feel for what was going on.

The Mountaineer is basically the same vehicle as the "Roll Me Another
One" Explorer so it could get exciting.



About six months ago, we got my wife a new car, maybe one step up from
your basic compact. We shopped five or six dealers, looking at several
brands of four door sedans, including two "fancy lines." She ending up
liking the Toyota Camry best because "it's a simple car, well-made, nice
ride, and peppy." I was pretty surprised at how well it performs, since
she opted for the naturally aspirated four cylinder engine.



If this house deal goes through and I find myself in a position where I
don't need a big truck for plowing or towing, I'll probably look for a
small, economical car like the Camry. Haven't done a lot of looking or
researching yet but I wouldn't mind getting something smaller as long as
it is comfortable. The Mini Cooper I had a year or so ago was a lot
of fun to drive but it was like riding on a high performance roller
skate. I can't imagine taking a long distance trip in it.

Kinda like the looks of the Ford Fusion also but don't know much about
them. Only problem with the imports ... Toyota, Nissan, etc., is that
they all look the same to me. And most I see are grey for some reason.

===

The most comfortable car we've ever owned is my wife's M-B E320. It's
just super in every way - smooth, quiet, powerful and great seats.
Consumer Reports rated it as one of the best cars they've ever driven.

My wife had one for a company car for a while. She liked it, but I
didn't. Too soft and no fun to drive. Her favorite was the Lexus
LS460. I hated driving it, but it was nice to be a passenger, especially on a long trip.

She had an A6 Quattro, and that's what introduced me to them. I've had
two since then, currently still driving the second one. Love them.
Comfortable, sporty, quick, and sure-footed with the quattro system.



How's the service availability? That's one thing I learned about having
some of the nicer, performance orientated, foreign made cars.

For example, the BMW M5 called for special oil that was only available
at the BMW dealership.
Wasn't a big deal since oil changes were covered but if you were
traveling and needed a quart (the M5 *did* use some oil, especially
during break in) you would have to hunt for a BMW service place.

The other thing I disliked about the BMW M5 was the very specific and
long break in procedure. RPM was limited for the first 1,200 or 1,500
miles and then a gradual allowance to start "getting on it" until you
had about 3,000 miles on it. The computer in the car recorded any
violations of the procedure so, in the event of a problem, they could
point their finger at you. Biggest problem for me was I had to go
through this twice. They took back the first M5 I had due to many
computer software problems. They assured me that the second one (same
year but built 7 months later) had all the issues sorted out. They lied.


BMWs seem a bit finicky to me. There are lots of things I hear about
them that make me happy not to have one.


I have thought of getting a Volt for around town running around. Problem
on lots of the Hybrids is the price. Way overpriced as a used car. Prius
seem to want 2x what you can buy the same year econobox with just as much
mpg or greater.

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/15/16 2:19 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 13:35:16 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/15/2016 1:12 PM, wrote:
On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 12:28:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 11:47:10 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/15/2016 11:21 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/15/16 11:09 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 05:05:07 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

Yup..if she was driving a basic compact car she would probably have
had a better feel for what was going on.

The Mountaineer is basically the same vehicle as the "Roll Me Another
One" Explorer so it could get exciting.



About six months ago, we got my wife a new car, maybe one step up from
your basic compact. We shopped five or six dealers, looking at several
brands of four door sedans, including two "fancy lines." She ending up
liking the Toyota Camry best because "it's a simple car, well-made, nice
ride, and peppy." I was pretty surprised at how well it performs, since
she opted for the naturally aspirated four cylinder engine.



If this house deal goes through and I find myself in a position where I
don't need a big truck for plowing or towing, I'll probably look for a
small, economical car like the Camry. Haven't done a lot of looking or
researching yet but I wouldn't mind getting something smaller as long as
it is comfortable. The Mini Cooper I had a year or so ago was a lot
of fun to drive but it was like riding on a high performance roller
skate. I can't imagine taking a long distance trip in it.

Kinda like the looks of the Ford Fusion also but don't know much about
them. Only problem with the imports ... Toyota, Nissan, etc., is that
they all look the same to me. And most I see are grey for some reason.

===

The most comfortable car we've ever owned is my wife's M-B E320. It's
just super in every way - smooth, quiet, powerful and great seats.
Consumer Reports rated it as one of the best cars they've ever driven.

My wife had one for a company car for a while. She liked it, but I
didn't. Too soft and no fun to drive. Her favorite was the Lexus
LS460. I hated driving it, but it was nice to be a passenger,
especially on a long trip.

She had an A6 Quattro, and that's what introduced me to them. I've
had two since then, currently still driving the second one. Love
them. Comfortable, sporty, quick, and sure-footed with the quattro system.



How's the service availability? That's one thing I learned about having
some of the nicer, performance orientated, foreign made cars.

For example, the BMW M5 called for special oil that was only available
at the BMW dealership.
Wasn't a big deal since oil changes were covered but if you were
traveling and needed a quart (the M5 *did* use some oil, especially
during break in) you would have to hunt for a BMW service place.

The other thing I disliked about the BMW M5 was the very specific and
long break in procedure. RPM was limited for the first 1,200 or 1,500
miles and then a gradual allowance to start "getting on it" until you
had about 3,000 miles on it. The computer in the car recorded any
violations of the procedure so, in the event of a problem, they could
point their finger at you. Biggest problem for me was I had to go
through this twice. They took back the first M5 I had due to many
computer software problems. They assured me that the second one (same
year but built 7 months later) had all the issues sorted out. They lied.


BMWs seem a bit finicky to me. There are lots of things I hear about
them that make me happy not to have one.



I had a new BMW, a 2002ti, back in the good old days before these German
cars became over-engineered and overly complicated. I wouldn't touch a
new BMW or Audi these days because of their complexity and the price of
service and spare parts. They're just too clever. The Porsches seem less
gimmicky.


Was looking at getting a 2002tii years ago, when wife informed me we needed
a 4 door car due to,pregnancy.

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 17:38:43 -0800, Califbill billnews wrote:

Our friend said her next car was going to be a Mercedes. They always seem
to have the right of way.

===

Heh. When you buy a fancy German car they give you a special course
on how to drive like a German. :-)