Overreacting government
 

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:45:56 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 12/15/2015 1:32 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:12:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 12/15/2015 12:53 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:46:53 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:08:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Again, the concern is a 50% increase of drones, RC aircraft, etc.,
starting to be used within the next couple of months.

I also realize that enforcement of the registration requirement is
difficult. It probably would have made more sense to require
registration at the time of sale.

Or have the seller check for an AMA card prior to the sale. But, the AMA card is free
to those under 19, and there is no requirement that the kid knows any flight rules or
safety measures.

Then we would have the "drone show" loophole ;-)

These days anyone who can put am Ikea table together can make a drone
from parts and I already know a guy who is making money doing it. (he
works for my wife). Some of these are pretty sophisticated and still
less than $500 to build. (more properly "assemble" since it is all off
the shelf parts)



You can think of more reasons *not* to address a potential problem than
anyone I know. :-)


It's senseless to develop senseless, unenforceable rules just to say, "We have now
addressed the problem."

I don't think it's up to the average lay person to determine what laws
are enforceable and what are not. It's obvious that those who feel most
restricted or affected by a law or regulation designed for the benefit
of the whole will be bitching the most.

The total restriction I will suffer will be about 4 minutes on the computer. As I
will 'register' soon, I won't even have to pay the $5 (another collection task to
give someone a meaningless job).

As an average lay person, I can say that this 'law' will be not be enforceable unless
the aircraft operator is trying to fly at a field where the 'law' will be enforced.
That means a field where a club's officers are on hand to enforce the 'law'.

As an average lay person, I can say that the gun control laws are suffering from an
abysmal lack of enforcement. Look at the shootings in any big city.

Trust me, my complaint has nothing to do with the impact upon me, as you imply, but
with the impact on the government - for stupidity.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Overreacting government
 

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:52:20 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 12/15/15 1:42 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/15/2015 1:30 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 12:53:09 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:46:53 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:08:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Again, the concern is a 50% increase of drones, RC aircraft, etc.,
starting to be used within the next couple of months.

I also realize that enforcement of the registration requirement is
difficult. It probably would have made more sense to require
registration at the time of sale.

Or have the seller check for an AMA card prior to the sale. But, the
AMA card is free
to those under 19, and there is no requirement that the kid knows
any flight rules or
safety measures.

Then we would have the "drone show" loophole ;-)

These days anyone who can put am Ikea table together can make a drone
from parts and I already know a guy who is making money doing it. (he
works for my wife). Some of these are pretty sophisticated and still
less than $500 to build. (more properly "assemble" since it is all off
the shelf parts)

None of which have serial numbers, although I see there is no mention
of registering
particular aircraft - only operators.

"Q. What information will I be required to provide on the FAA UAS
Registration
website?

A. You must provide your complete name, physical address, mailing
address, and an
email address. The email address will be used as your login ID when
you set up your
account.

Q. Do I have to provide any information on my UAS?

A. Individual recreational users do not have to enter the make, model,
and serial
number. All non-recreational users will be required to provide the
make, model, and
serial number when the website is available to all other users."

(From the site provided by Luddite.)


You missed some that pertain:

Q. How do I prove I am registered?

A. A certificate of registration will be available to download and will
be sent to your email address at the time of registration. When
operating your UAS you must be able to present the certificate in either
print or electronic format if asked for proof of registration.

Q. Will my drone require an N-number or sticker?

A. No. You will receive a unique registration number, not an N-number,
and you must mark the registration number on your UAS by some means that
is legible and allows the number to be readily seen. The registration
number may be placed in a battery compartment as long as it can be
accessed without the use of tools.

Q. Is putting my AMA number on my drone enough?

A. No. Not at this time. The registration system will generate a unique
FAA registration number, which you must mark on your aircraft.

Q. Would putting my contact information on my drone be enough?

A. No, you must mark it with the FAA registration number.




I'm sorry for laughing, but this thread is hysterical. A kazillion posts
about toy airplanes, as it were, and all because Herring at heart thinks
the rules shouldn't apply to his little hobbies.


Glad you're happy.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Overreacting government
 

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:57:08 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 12/15/15 1:56 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:33:01 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 12/15/15 1:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/15/2015 1:02 PM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 12/15/2015 9:23 AM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"Why are you whining about government employment? Weren't you a
government employee most of your working life? Wasn't your wife? Didn't
your wife get health plan benefits from an employee union? You're biting
the hands that fed you, eh?"


The John got his......to 'ell with anyone else.

What did John get that you didn't?


John didn't "get" anything. He earned it, based on the contract he
had for his service.

Sorta like a union.



John's problem is that he resents other government employees who get
benefits.

I resent the creation of 'jobs' which accomplish nothing but increasing the size of
the government.
--


Well, then, you should have resigned from the army before you vested, as
it were.

The fact that several of us are having a discussion without rancor and name-calling,
even though we disagree, just bugs the **** out of you, doesn't it?

--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Overreacting government
 

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 15:54:20 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:42:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 1:30 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 12:53:09 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:46:53 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:08:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Again, the concern is a 50% increase of drones, RC aircraft, etc.,
starting to be used within the next couple of months.

I also realize that enforcement of the registration requirement is
difficult. It probably would have made more sense to require
registration at the time of sale.

Or have the seller check for an AMA card prior to the sale. But, the AMA card is free
to those under 19, and there is no requirement that the kid knows any flight rules or
safety measures.

Then we would have the "drone show" loophole ;-)

These days anyone who can put am Ikea table together can make a drone
from parts and I already know a guy who is making money doing it. (he
works for my wife). Some of these are pretty sophisticated and still
less than $500 to build. (more properly "assemble" since it is all off
the shelf parts)

None of which have serial numbers, although I see there is no mention of registering
particular aircraft - only operators.

"Q. What information will I be required to provide on the FAA UAS Registration
website?

A. You must provide your complete name, physical address, mailing address, and an
email address. The email address will be used as your login ID when you set up your
account.

Q. Do I have to provide any information on my UAS?

A. Individual recreational users do not have to enter the make, model, and serial
number. All non-recreational users will be required to provide the make, model, and
serial number when the website is available to all other users."

(From the site provided by Luddite.)


You missed some that pertain:

Q. How do I prove I am registered?

A. A certificate of registration will be available to download and will
be sent to your email address at the time of registration. When
operating your UAS you must be able to present the certificate in either
print or electronic format if asked for proof of registration.

Q. Will my drone require an N-number or sticker?

A. No. You will receive a unique registration number, not an N-number,
and you must mark the registration number on your UAS by some means that
is legible and allows the number to be readily seen. The registration
number may be placed in a battery compartment as long as it can be
accessed without the use of tools.

Q. Is putting my AMA number on my drone enough?

A. No. Not at this time. The registration system will generate a unique
FAA registration number, which you must mark on your aircraft.

Q. Would putting my contact information on my drone be enough?

A. No, you must mark it with the FAA registration number.



Who is going to look?

Only the officers at an AMA sanctioned airfield that are willing to do so.

But, if I fly a drone I don't need no steeenkin' airfield!
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Overreacting government
 

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:45:56 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



I don't think it's up to the average lay person to determine what laws
are enforceable and what are not. It's obvious that those who feel most
restricted or affected by a law or regulation designed for the benefit
of the whole will be bitching the most.

It is not hard to decide whether a law is enforceable by looking at
what kind of staff they will appropriate to enforce it. That is the
second shoe that will drop. Currently there is no money allocated for
enforcement.
This is "rock soup" government at it's best.
They start with a simple regulation, that is ineffective and they will
keep throwing new resources at it until it is a huge bureaucracy or
hopefully just abandon the idea.

I will not be restricted at all but I will be taxed.

Overreacting government
 

On 12/15/15 4:15 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:57:08 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 12/15/15 1:56 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:33:01 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 12/15/15 1:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/15/2015 1:02 PM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 12/15/2015 9:23 AM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"Why are you whining about government employment? Weren't you a
government employee most of your working life? Wasn't your wife? Didn't
your wife get health plan benefits from an employee union? You're biting
the hands that fed you, eh?"


The John got his......to 'ell with anyone else.

What did John get that you didn't?


John didn't "get" anything. He earned it, based on the contract he
had for his service.

Sorta like a union.



John's problem is that he resents other government employees who get
benefits.

I resent the creation of 'jobs' which accomplish nothing but increasing the size of
the government.
--


Well, then, you should have resigned from the army before you vested, as
it were.

The fact that several of us are having a discussion without rancor and name-calling,
even though we disagree, just bugs the **** out of you, doesn't it?

--

You are the one who insulted government employees who might be covered
by an AFGE contract. They're no different than you were...in terms of
their employer(s).

Overreacting government
 

Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
"Like I said, this was from a by-gone era when cops walked a beat
twirling a nightstick and wore uniforms like you see in the famous
Norman Rockwell paintings. * The bicycle plate looked like this, except
it said "Quincy" instead of Concord:

http://platevault.com/uploads/86/ee/thumbs/6155832592bee86.jpg"


WOW, that's exactly the shape of bicycle license plate we had in the old city of Halifax. Some kids attached them to the front wheel spokes and others mounted the plate to the rear fender...either above or below the rear reflector. Seems to me the vast majority of bikes had fenders then...before the 10 speeds became so popular.

Overreacting government
 

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 16:20:41 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 15:54:20 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:42:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 1:30 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 12:53:09 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:46:53 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:08:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Again, the concern is a 50% increase of drones, RC aircraft, etc.,
starting to be used within the next couple of months.

I also realize that enforcement of the registration requirement is
difficult. It probably would have made more sense to require
registration at the time of sale.

Or have the seller check for an AMA card prior to the sale. But, the AMA card is free
to those under 19, and there is no requirement that the kid knows any flight rules or
safety measures.

Then we would have the "drone show" loophole ;-)

These days anyone who can put am Ikea table together can make a drone
from parts and I already know a guy who is making money doing it. (he
works for my wife). Some of these are pretty sophisticated and still
less than $500 to build. (more properly "assemble" since it is all off
the shelf parts)

None of which have serial numbers, although I see there is no mention of registering
particular aircraft - only operators.

"Q. What information will I be required to provide on the FAA UAS Registration
website?

A. You must provide your complete name, physical address, mailing address, and an
email address. The email address will be used as your login ID when you set up your
account.

Q. Do I have to provide any information on my UAS?

A. Individual recreational users do not have to enter the make, model, and serial
number. All non-recreational users will be required to provide the make, model, and
serial number when the website is available to all other users."

(From the site provided by Luddite.)


You missed some that pertain:

Q. How do I prove I am registered?

A. A certificate of registration will be available to download and will
be sent to your email address at the time of registration. When
operating your UAS you must be able to present the certificate in either
print or electronic format if asked for proof of registration.

Q. Will my drone require an N-number or sticker?

A. No. You will receive a unique registration number, not an N-number,
and you must mark the registration number on your UAS by some means that
is legible and allows the number to be readily seen. The registration
number may be placed in a battery compartment as long as it can be
accessed without the use of tools.

Q. Is putting my AMA number on my drone enough?

A. No. Not at this time. The registration system will generate a unique
FAA registration number, which you must mark on your aircraft.

Q. Would putting my contact information on my drone be enough?

A. No, you must mark it with the FAA registration number.



Who is going to look?

Only the officers at an AMA sanctioned airfield that are willing to do so.

But, if I fly a drone I don't need no steeenkin' airfield!

That is true. The drones that are causing the problem are not and
probably will not ever be flown at an AMA field.
It certainly appears to me that if the FAA is powerful enough to catch
a guy in Fumbuck Arkansas flying a drone without a license they could
have stopped these guys near major airports where they already have a
presence.

Overreacting government
 

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 16:32:08 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:


You are the one who insulted government employees who might be covered
by an AFGE contract. They're no different than you were...in terms of
their employer(s).

In this case you should be fighting the new rule because this will not
be administered by USCS. It will be farmed out to contractors in an
evil corporation.
The actual enforcement plan is still "up in the air" so to speak.
I also have not actually seen any money appropriated to hire the
contractor so it is just on the cuff for a while.

Overreacting government
 

On 12/15/2015 1:55 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:23:58 -0500, John H.
wrote:

The people doing the most complaining of drones operated by hobbyists
are private and commercial pilots. They are the ones pushing the FAA
for the enforcement of regulations regarding their use. The
regulations exist. Registration is an attempt to further enforcement.

I can attest from experience that a sudden, unexpected distraction at
a critical moment in your approach to landing could cause an accident.
Birds are a problem (especially seagulls in our area). So are idiots
flying drones near an airport.


I played golf with a pilot Sunday. He's concerned about drones, but thinks a bigger
problem is lasers. He said he knows several pilots who've quit flying because of
lasers.

I think that may be a bit overblown too.

A drone could definitely damage an engine, but it's doubtful whether it could bring a
plane down.

I have not even heard of a drone caused accident. It is just people
offended that someone else is in their "space".
Fully registered planes with licensed pilots have caused far more
close calls than drones and more than a few fatalities. Maybe they
were "aware" enough. Charge them another $5 to tune them up.


Amazing. "... people offended that someone else is in their "space".

A pilot on final shouldn't be concerned with a nitwit flying a drone or
RC aircraft. He has enough to be focused on, especially when his
aircraft is in a vulnerable place and flying setup. It's not an issue
of intruding on their "space".

There are really two concerns that have pushed this registration
requirement. One is the expressed concerns of pilots who put pressure on
the FAA. The other is the realization that on December 26 the number of
these are likely to increase by 50 percent overnight.

The idea is to discourage irresponsible operation *before* an accident
occurs. Registration allows the possibility of tracing a captured drone
back to it's irresponsible owner. Those who are responsible for the
safe operation of their RC's have nothing to be concerned about.