I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind.

It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of
our import and export shipments to and from China.

First item of surprise:

60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from
China are returned to China ... empty.

But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge
qualities.

Trash.

The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard,
scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China.
China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the
plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap
aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:11:00 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind.

It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of
our import and export shipments to and from China.

First item of surprise:

60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from
China are returned to China ... empty.

But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge
qualities.

Trash.

The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard,
scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China.
China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the
plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap
aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us.


It does make the TPP far more important that simply a flip flopping
position for candidates.

It is really pretty hard to figure out exactly who the winners and
losers will be. They talk using the normal political rhetoric without
actually telling us what it means. I hear more about it in the foreign
news than the US news but they tend to zero in on their particular
industries, not the overall effects. New Zealand is concentrating on
dairy, something you would have to be in Wisconsin to hear about here.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind.

It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of
our import and export shipments to and from China.

First item of surprise:

60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from
China are returned to China ... empty.

But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge
qualities.

Trash.

The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard,
scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China.
China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the
plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap
aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us.



Back in the 50's we loaded our scrap steel on scrap ships, and they towed
them to Japan for processing. I guess we are to expensive to do do any
real labor. My dad's company did a lot of the work of cutting huge holes
in the decks of ships, which was filled with scrap and then welding the
deck section back in. As well,as welding the rudder straight and the prop
shaft from turning. Seems as will be even better economically for other
countries if we keep raising minimum wages.

On 10/15/15 12:49 PM, Califbill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind.

It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of
our import and export shipments to and from China.

First item of surprise:

60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from
China are returned to China ... empty.

But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge
qualities.

Trash.

The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard,
scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China.
China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the
plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap
aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us.



Back in the 50's we loaded our scrap steel on scrap ships, and they towed
them to Japan for processing. I guess we are to expensive to do do any
real labor. My dad's company did a lot of the work of cutting huge holes
in the decks of ships, which was filled with scrap and then welding the
deck section back in. As well,as welding the rudder straight and the prop
shaft from turning. Seems as will be even better economically for other
countries if we keep raising minimum wages.



We always had three small "dumpster" like containers behind the boat
shop, one for iron and steel, one for aluminum, and one for
brass-bronze-copper, and these were for the busted parts of boats,
motors, scooters, trailers, et cetera, and were "saved" for the monthly
pickup by a local scrap dealer, who would take them to his yard and then
send my dad a check for whatever the agreed-upon value per pound was.
These weren't the huge dumpsters you see nowadays, but maybe a third as
big. Pistons, blocks, drive shafts, broken "pot metal", busted props not
worth repairing, fasteners, control wires stripped out of their covers,
busted wheels. In those days, the scrap metal was then loaded onto rail
cars and shipped off to smelters in the USA to be reprocessed for
materials for new parts "made in the USA." I'm sure some of it was also
shipped to foreign countries.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:11:00 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge
qualities.

Trash.

===

It's good to know we still produce something of value. -

Better for it to go back to China in an otherwise empty container
rather than end up in a landfill here don't you think?

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:05:38 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/15/15 12:49 PM, Califbill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind.

It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of
our import and export shipments to and from China.

First item of surprise:

60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from
China are returned to China ... empty.

But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge
qualities.

Trash.

The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard,
scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China.
China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the
plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap
aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us.



Back in the 50's we loaded our scrap steel on scrap ships, and they towed
them to Japan for processing. I guess we are to expensive to do do any
real labor. My dad's company did a lot of the work of cutting huge holes
in the decks of ships, which was filled with scrap and then welding the
deck section back in. As well,as welding the rudder straight and the prop
shaft from turning. Seems as will be even better economically for other
countries if we keep raising minimum wages.



We always had three small "dumpster" like containers behind the boat
shop, one for iron and steel, one for aluminum, and one for
brass-bronze-copper, and these were for the busted parts of boats,
motors, scooters, trailers, et cetera, and were "saved" for the monthly
pickup by a local scrap dealer, who would take them to his yard and then
send my dad a check for whatever the agreed-upon value per pound was.
These weren't the huge dumpsters you see nowadays, but maybe a third as
big. Pistons, blocks, drive shafts, broken "pot metal", busted props not
worth repairing, fasteners, control wires stripped out of their covers,
busted wheels. In those days, the scrap metal was then loaded onto rail
cars and shipped off to smelters in the USA to be reprocessed for
materials for new parts "made in the USA." I'm sure some of it was also
shipped to foreign countries.

===

Like it or not, our environmental regs have just about put scrap
smelters out of business in this country. Many of the old ones have
turned into EPA super fund sites. Apparently steel recycles fairly
cleanly however since there are companies like Nucor that make a good
business out of it.

http://www.nucor.com/story/prologue/

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/15/15 12:49 PM, Califbill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind.

It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of
our import and export shipments to and from China.

First item of surprise:

60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from
China are returned to China ... empty.

But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge
qualities.

Trash.

The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard,
scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China.
China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the
plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap
aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us.



Back in the 50's we loaded our scrap steel on scrap ships, and they towed
them to Japan for processing. I guess we are to expensive to do do any
real labor. My dad's company did a lot of the work of cutting huge holes
in the decks of ships, which was filled with scrap and then welding the
deck section back in. As well,as welding the rudder straight and the prop
shaft from turning. Seems as will be even better economically for other
countries if we keep raising minimum wages.



We always had three small "dumpster" like containers behind the boat
shop, one for iron and steel, one for aluminum, and one for
brass-bronze-copper, and these were for the busted parts of boats,
motors, scooters, trailers, et cetera, and were "saved" for the monthly
pickup by a local scrap dealer, who would take them to his yard and then
send my dad a check for whatever the agreed-upon value per pound was.
These weren't the huge dumpsters you see nowadays, but maybe a third as
big. Pistons, blocks, drive shafts, broken "pot metal", busted props not
worth repairing, fasteners, control wires stripped out of their covers,
busted wheels. In those days, the scrap metal was then loaded onto rail
cars and shipped off to smelters in the USA to be reprocessed for
materials for new parts "made in the USA." I'm sure some of it was also
shipped to foreign countries.


Maybe east coast processed scrap in the USA. But Learners and Snitzers
scrap metals filled lots of ships. Snitzers I think has dedicated scrap
ships now. But we are a rather dumb country when it comes to spending
money. The new Bay Bridge deck sections were built in China by a company
that had never built a bridge before. governor Brown stated we would save
$300 million on a $6 billion project. How much would we have saved if that
$300 million was spent here in the state, providing jobs? Would have saved
a lot of welfare and unemployment money! And the bridge decks have
problems the Chinese will not fix.

wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:05:38 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/15/15 12:49 PM, Califbill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind.

It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of
our import and export shipments to and from China.

First item of surprise:

60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from
China are returned to China ... empty.

But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge
qualities.

Trash.

The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard,
scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China.
China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the
plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap
aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us.



Back in the 50's we loaded our scrap steel on scrap ships, and they towed
them to Japan for processing. I guess we are to expensive to do do any
real labor. My dad's company did a lot of the work of cutting huge holes
in the decks of ships, which was filled with scrap and then welding the
deck section back in. As well,as welding the rudder straight and the prop
shaft from turning. Seems as will be even better economically for other
countries if we keep raising minimum wages.



We always had three small "dumpster" like containers behind the boat
shop, one for iron and steel, one for aluminum, and one for
brass-bronze-copper, and these were for the busted parts of boats,
motors, scooters, trailers, et cetera, and were "saved" for the monthly
pickup by a local scrap dealer, who would take them to his yard and then
send my dad a check for whatever the agreed-upon value per pound was.
These weren't the huge dumpsters you see nowadays, but maybe a third as
big. Pistons, blocks, drive shafts, broken "pot metal", busted props not
worth repairing, fasteners, control wires stripped out of their covers,
busted wheels. In those days, the scrap metal was then loaded onto rail
cars and shipped off to smelters in the USA to be reprocessed for
materials for new parts "made in the USA." I'm sure some of it was also
shipped to foreign countries.

===

Like it or not, our environmental regs have just about put scrap
smelters out of business in this country. Many of the old ones have
turned into EPA super fund sites. Apparently steel recycles fairly
cleanly however since there are companies like Nucor that make a good
business out of it.

http://www.nucor.com/story/prologue/


Friends of ours had last US rebar manufacturing plant. The slag has an
arsenic component. They paid huge fees to a Federally licensed dump
facility. Later, after their business had petty much been undercut by
China and they closed the facilities. (Huge shopping center now), the EPA
came after them to pay for cleanup at the EPA super fund site where the
slag had ended up. EPA ended up sucking eggs as the rebar company had
followed all the rules. EPA and government needs to also consider
financial cost as required. Black GM cars used to come from Mexico plant
as the Black paint could not be used in the US even with spray booths.

On 10/15/15 3:06 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/15/15 12:49 PM, Califbill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind.

It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of
our import and export shipments to and from China.

First item of surprise:

60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from
China are returned to China ... empty.

But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge
qualities.

Trash.

The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard,
scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China.
China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the
plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap
aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us.



Back in the 50's we loaded our scrap steel on scrap ships, and they towed
them to Japan for processing. I guess we are to expensive to do do any
real labor. My dad's company did a lot of the work of cutting huge holes
in the decks of ships, which was filled with scrap and then welding the
deck section back in. As well,as welding the rudder straight and the prop
shaft from turning. Seems as will be even better economically for other
countries if we keep raising minimum wages.



We always had three small "dumpster" like containers behind the boat
shop, one for iron and steel, one for aluminum, and one for
brass-bronze-copper, and these were for the busted parts of boats,
motors, scooters, trailers, et cetera, and were "saved" for the monthly
pickup by a local scrap dealer, who would take them to his yard and then
send my dad a check for whatever the agreed-upon value per pound was.
These weren't the huge dumpsters you see nowadays, but maybe a third as
big. Pistons, blocks, drive shafts, broken "pot metal", busted props not
worth repairing, fasteners, control wires stripped out of their covers,
busted wheels. In those days, the scrap metal was then loaded onto rail
cars and shipped off to smelters in the USA to be reprocessed for
materials for new parts "made in the USA." I'm sure some of it was also
shipped to foreign countries.


Maybe east coast processed scrap in the USA. But Learners and Snitzers
scrap metals filled lots of ships. Snitzers I think has dedicated scrap
ships now. But we are a rather dumb country when it comes to spending
money. The new Bay Bridge deck sections were built in China by a company
that had never built a bridge before. governor Brown stated we would save
$300 million on a $6 billion project. How much would we have saved if that
$300 million was spent here in the state, providing jobs? Would have saved
a lot of welfare and unemployment money! And the bridge decks have
problems the Chinese will not fix.



I vaguely recall my dad saying the scrap he sold to the local guy ended
up in Pittsburgh. This was in the 1950s and 1960s and early 1970s. When
my dad died, the boat store had, literally, hundreds of parts bins where
new parts for engines dating back to the late 1940s were kept. Mostly
metal parts, but some electrical, some rubber, et cetera. A friend of
the family who was the owner of a New England boat accessories and parts
operation arranged for the sale of all this stuff to a handful of active
boat dealers in Connecticut and Rhode Island and my mother ended up with
a substantial check as the proceeds. Too bad there was no eBay back
then!

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:05:38 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/15/15 12:49 PM, Califbill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind.

It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of
our import and export shipments to and from China.

First item of surprise:

60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from
China are returned to China ... empty.

But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge
qualities.

Trash.

The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard,
scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China.
China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the
plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap
aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us.



Back in the 50's we loaded our scrap steel on scrap ships, and they towed
them to Japan for processing. I guess we are to expensive to do do any
real labor. My dad's company did a lot of the work of cutting huge holes
in the decks of ships, which was filled with scrap and then welding the
deck section back in. As well,as welding the rudder straight and the prop
shaft from turning. Seems as will be even better economically for other
countries if we keep raising minimum wages.



We always had three small "dumpster" like containers behind the boat
shop, one for iron and steel, one for aluminum, and one for
brass-bronze-copper, and these were for the busted parts of boats,
motors, scooters, trailers, et cetera, and were "saved" for the monthly
pickup by a local scrap dealer, who would take them to his yard and then
send my dad a check for whatever the agreed-upon value per pound was.
These weren't the huge dumpsters you see nowadays, but maybe a third as
big. Pistons, blocks, drive shafts, broken "pot metal", busted props not
worth repairing, fasteners, control wires stripped out of their covers,
busted wheels. In those days, the scrap metal was then loaded onto rail
cars and shipped off to smelters in the USA to be reprocessed for
materials for new parts "made in the USA." I'm sure some of it was also
shipped to foreign countries.

I talked to one of the scrappers here and he said most of the sorted
scrap metal gets used in the US but mixed scrap is exported
I don't know how much that is actually true and whether it is just the
local disposition but it sounds reasonable. He gets the whole family
around and they take stuff like white goods apart, separating as much
of the high value stuff out as they can for the best price. He said
they could strip a washing machine down in 10 minutes, taking the
motors and solenoids apart for the copper, separating the aluminum
from the steel and getting rid of all the plastic. Most of it was just
working with a screw gun.