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Trade agreements
I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind.
It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of our import and export shipments to and from China. First item of surprise: 60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from China are returned to China ... empty. But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge qualities. Trash. The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard, scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China. China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us. |
Trade agreements
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:11:00 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind. It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of our import and export shipments to and from China. First item of surprise: 60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from China are returned to China ... empty. But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge qualities. Trash. The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard, scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China. China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us. It does make the TPP far more important that simply a flip flopping position for candidates. It is really pretty hard to figure out exactly who the winners and losers will be. They talk using the normal political rhetoric without actually telling us what it means. I hear more about it in the foreign news than the US news but they tend to zero in on their particular industries, not the overall effects. New Zealand is concentrating on dairy, something you would have to be in Wisconsin to hear about here. |
Trade agreements
Mr. Luddite wrote:
I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind. It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of our import and export shipments to and from China. First item of surprise: 60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from China are returned to China ... empty. But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge qualities. Trash. The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard, scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China. China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us. Back in the 50's we loaded our scrap steel on scrap ships, and they towed them to Japan for processing. I guess we are to expensive to do do any real labor. My dad's company did a lot of the work of cutting huge holes in the decks of ships, which was filled with scrap and then welding the deck section back in. As well,as welding the rudder straight and the prop shaft from turning. Seems as will be even better economically for other countries if we keep raising minimum wages. |
Trade agreements
On 10/15/15 12:49 PM, Califbill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind. It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of our import and export shipments to and from China. First item of surprise: 60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from China are returned to China ... empty. But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge qualities. Trash. The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard, scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China. China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us. Back in the 50's we loaded our scrap steel on scrap ships, and they towed them to Japan for processing. I guess we are to expensive to do do any real labor. My dad's company did a lot of the work of cutting huge holes in the decks of ships, which was filled with scrap and then welding the deck section back in. As well,as welding the rudder straight and the prop shaft from turning. Seems as will be even better economically for other countries if we keep raising minimum wages. We always had three small "dumpster" like containers behind the boat shop, one for iron and steel, one for aluminum, and one for brass-bronze-copper, and these were for the busted parts of boats, motors, scooters, trailers, et cetera, and were "saved" for the monthly pickup by a local scrap dealer, who would take them to his yard and then send my dad a check for whatever the agreed-upon value per pound was. These weren't the huge dumpsters you see nowadays, but maybe a third as big. Pistons, blocks, drive shafts, broken "pot metal", busted props not worth repairing, fasteners, control wires stripped out of their covers, busted wheels. In those days, the scrap metal was then loaded onto rail cars and shipped off to smelters in the USA to be reprocessed for materials for new parts "made in the USA." I'm sure some of it was also shipped to foreign countries. |
Trade agreements
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:11:00 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge qualities. Trash. === It's good to know we still produce something of value. -:) Better for it to go back to China in an otherwise empty container rather than end up in a landfill here don't you think? |
Trade agreements
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:05:38 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote: On 10/15/15 12:49 PM, Califbill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind. It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of our import and export shipments to and from China. First item of surprise: 60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from China are returned to China ... empty. But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge qualities. Trash. The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard, scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China. China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us. Back in the 50's we loaded our scrap steel on scrap ships, and they towed them to Japan for processing. I guess we are to expensive to do do any real labor. My dad's company did a lot of the work of cutting huge holes in the decks of ships, which was filled with scrap and then welding the deck section back in. As well,as welding the rudder straight and the prop shaft from turning. Seems as will be even better economically for other countries if we keep raising minimum wages. We always had three small "dumpster" like containers behind the boat shop, one for iron and steel, one for aluminum, and one for brass-bronze-copper, and these were for the busted parts of boats, motors, scooters, trailers, et cetera, and were "saved" for the monthly pickup by a local scrap dealer, who would take them to his yard and then send my dad a check for whatever the agreed-upon value per pound was. These weren't the huge dumpsters you see nowadays, but maybe a third as big. Pistons, blocks, drive shafts, broken "pot metal", busted props not worth repairing, fasteners, control wires stripped out of their covers, busted wheels. In those days, the scrap metal was then loaded onto rail cars and shipped off to smelters in the USA to be reprocessed for materials for new parts "made in the USA." I'm sure some of it was also shipped to foreign countries. === Like it or not, our environmental regs have just about put scrap smelters out of business in this country. Many of the old ones have turned into EPA super fund sites. Apparently steel recycles fairly cleanly however since there are companies like Nucor that make a good business out of it. http://www.nucor.com/story/prologue/ |
Trade agreements
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/15/15 12:49 PM, Califbill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind. It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of our import and export shipments to and from China. First item of surprise: 60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from China are returned to China ... empty. But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge qualities. Trash. The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard, scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China. China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us. Back in the 50's we loaded our scrap steel on scrap ships, and they towed them to Japan for processing. I guess we are to expensive to do do any real labor. My dad's company did a lot of the work of cutting huge holes in the decks of ships, which was filled with scrap and then welding the deck section back in. As well,as welding the rudder straight and the prop shaft from turning. Seems as will be even better economically for other countries if we keep raising minimum wages. We always had three small "dumpster" like containers behind the boat shop, one for iron and steel, one for aluminum, and one for brass-bronze-copper, and these were for the busted parts of boats, motors, scooters, trailers, et cetera, and were "saved" for the monthly pickup by a local scrap dealer, who would take them to his yard and then send my dad a check for whatever the agreed-upon value per pound was. These weren't the huge dumpsters you see nowadays, but maybe a third as big. Pistons, blocks, drive shafts, broken "pot metal", busted props not worth repairing, fasteners, control wires stripped out of their covers, busted wheels. In those days, the scrap metal was then loaded onto rail cars and shipped off to smelters in the USA to be reprocessed for materials for new parts "made in the USA." I'm sure some of it was also shipped to foreign countries. Maybe east coast processed scrap in the USA. But Learners and Snitzers scrap metals filled lots of ships. Snitzers I think has dedicated scrap ships now. But we are a rather dumb country when it comes to spending money. The new Bay Bridge deck sections were built in China by a company that had never built a bridge before. governor Brown stated we would save $300 million on a $6 billion project. How much would we have saved if that $300 million was spent here in the state, providing jobs? Would have saved a lot of welfare and unemployment money! And the bridge decks have problems the Chinese will not fix. |
Trade agreements
wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:05:38 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/15/15 12:49 PM, Califbill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind. It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of our import and export shipments to and from China. First item of surprise: 60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from China are returned to China ... empty. But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge qualities. Trash. The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard, scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China. China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us. Back in the 50's we loaded our scrap steel on scrap ships, and they towed them to Japan for processing. I guess we are to expensive to do do any real labor. My dad's company did a lot of the work of cutting huge holes in the decks of ships, which was filled with scrap and then welding the deck section back in. As well,as welding the rudder straight and the prop shaft from turning. Seems as will be even better economically for other countries if we keep raising minimum wages. We always had three small "dumpster" like containers behind the boat shop, one for iron and steel, one for aluminum, and one for brass-bronze-copper, and these were for the busted parts of boats, motors, scooters, trailers, et cetera, and were "saved" for the monthly pickup by a local scrap dealer, who would take them to his yard and then send my dad a check for whatever the agreed-upon value per pound was. These weren't the huge dumpsters you see nowadays, but maybe a third as big. Pistons, blocks, drive shafts, broken "pot metal", busted props not worth repairing, fasteners, control wires stripped out of their covers, busted wheels. In those days, the scrap metal was then loaded onto rail cars and shipped off to smelters in the USA to be reprocessed for materials for new parts "made in the USA." I'm sure some of it was also shipped to foreign countries. === Like it or not, our environmental regs have just about put scrap smelters out of business in this country. Many of the old ones have turned into EPA super fund sites. Apparently steel recycles fairly cleanly however since there are companies like Nucor that make a good business out of it. http://www.nucor.com/story/prologue/ Friends of ours had last US rebar manufacturing plant. The slag has an arsenic component. They paid huge fees to a Federally licensed dump facility. Later, after their business had petty much been undercut by China and they closed the facilities. (Huge shopping center now), the EPA came after them to pay for cleanup at the EPA super fund site where the slag had ended up. EPA ended up sucking eggs as the rebar company had followed all the rules. EPA and government needs to also consider financial cost as required. Black GM cars used to come from Mexico plant as the Black paint could not be used in the US even with spray booths. |
Trade agreements
On 10/15/15 3:06 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote: On 10/15/15 12:49 PM, Califbill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind. It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of our import and export shipments to and from China. First item of surprise: 60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from China are returned to China ... empty. But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge qualities. Trash. The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard, scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China. China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us. Back in the 50's we loaded our scrap steel on scrap ships, and they towed them to Japan for processing. I guess we are to expensive to do do any real labor. My dad's company did a lot of the work of cutting huge holes in the decks of ships, which was filled with scrap and then welding the deck section back in. As well,as welding the rudder straight and the prop shaft from turning. Seems as will be even better economically for other countries if we keep raising minimum wages. We always had three small "dumpster" like containers behind the boat shop, one for iron and steel, one for aluminum, and one for brass-bronze-copper, and these were for the busted parts of boats, motors, scooters, trailers, et cetera, and were "saved" for the monthly pickup by a local scrap dealer, who would take them to his yard and then send my dad a check for whatever the agreed-upon value per pound was. These weren't the huge dumpsters you see nowadays, but maybe a third as big. Pistons, blocks, drive shafts, broken "pot metal", busted props not worth repairing, fasteners, control wires stripped out of their covers, busted wheels. In those days, the scrap metal was then loaded onto rail cars and shipped off to smelters in the USA to be reprocessed for materials for new parts "made in the USA." I'm sure some of it was also shipped to foreign countries. Maybe east coast processed scrap in the USA. But Learners and Snitzers scrap metals filled lots of ships. Snitzers I think has dedicated scrap ships now. But we are a rather dumb country when it comes to spending money. The new Bay Bridge deck sections were built in China by a company that had never built a bridge before. governor Brown stated we would save $300 million on a $6 billion project. How much would we have saved if that $300 million was spent here in the state, providing jobs? Would have saved a lot of welfare and unemployment money! And the bridge decks have problems the Chinese will not fix. I vaguely recall my dad saying the scrap he sold to the local guy ended up in Pittsburgh. This was in the 1950s and 1960s and early 1970s. When my dad died, the boat store had, literally, hundreds of parts bins where new parts for engines dating back to the late 1940s were kept. Mostly metal parts, but some electrical, some rubber, et cetera. A friend of the family who was the owner of a New England boat accessories and parts operation arranged for the sale of all this stuff to a handful of active boat dealers in Connecticut and Rhode Island and my mother ended up with a substantial check as the proceeds. Too bad there was no eBay back then! :) |
Trade agreements
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:05:38 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote: On 10/15/15 12:49 PM, Califbill wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: I watched a report on MSNBC earlier today that blew my mind. It focused on a port in California that handles 40 percent of our import and export shipments to and from China. First item of surprise: 60 percent of the containers loaded with merchandise imported from China are returned to China ... empty. But the biggest surprise is what we are exporting *to* China in huge qualities. Trash. The report showed mountains of recyclable plastic bottles, cardboard, scrap metal and other trash items that are loaded up and set to China. China's workers recycle it, making insulated clothing items from the plastic bottles and cardboard and items like smartphones from the scrap aluminum and metals, then ship them back to the USA for sale back to us. Back in the 50's we loaded our scrap steel on scrap ships, and they towed them to Japan for processing. I guess we are to expensive to do do any real labor. My dad's company did a lot of the work of cutting huge holes in the decks of ships, which was filled with scrap and then welding the deck section back in. As well,as welding the rudder straight and the prop shaft from turning. Seems as will be even better economically for other countries if we keep raising minimum wages. We always had three small "dumpster" like containers behind the boat shop, one for iron and steel, one for aluminum, and one for brass-bronze-copper, and these were for the busted parts of boats, motors, scooters, trailers, et cetera, and were "saved" for the monthly pickup by a local scrap dealer, who would take them to his yard and then send my dad a check for whatever the agreed-upon value per pound was. These weren't the huge dumpsters you see nowadays, but maybe a third as big. Pistons, blocks, drive shafts, broken "pot metal", busted props not worth repairing, fasteners, control wires stripped out of their covers, busted wheels. In those days, the scrap metal was then loaded onto rail cars and shipped off to smelters in the USA to be reprocessed for materials for new parts "made in the USA." I'm sure some of it was also shipped to foreign countries. I talked to one of the scrappers here and he said most of the sorted scrap metal gets used in the US but mixed scrap is exported I don't know how much that is actually true and whether it is just the local disposition but it sounds reasonable. He gets the whole family around and they take stuff like white goods apart, separating as much of the high value stuff out as they can for the best price. He said they could strip a washing machine down in 10 minutes, taking the motors and solenoids apart for the copper, separating the aluminum from the steel and getting rid of all the plastic. Most of it was just working with a screw gun. |
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