On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they
graduate?

On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.

On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.




Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete.
May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster,
and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want
these days, is for old analog engineers.

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade..


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.


Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete..
May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster,
and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want
these days, is for old analog engineers.

Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school.

The writer's posit is wrong.

On 10/13/15 12:06 AM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.




Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete.
May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster,
and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want
these days, is for old analog engineers.



Gee, Bilious, I hope the taxpayers of your state didn't subsidize your
education. Why was college necessary, anyway? Couldn't you have picked
up some workbooks at the library or gotten your education in the
military?

On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:06:31 -0700, Califbill billnews wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.




Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete.
May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster,
and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want
these days, is for old analog engineers.


Actually Harry is beyond his depth here. If your goal os a PE in
electrical engineering, the basics will still work for the rest of
your life.
Like you say, the hardware changes but the electrons stayed the same.
If you are computing heat rise in transformers or ampacity of
conductors in hostile environments, those old formulas still work,
although you can probably do the whole thing on your phone (AKA pocket
mainframe) now.

On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:02:31 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.

===

That's not really true except at the nuts and bolts device level. All
engineering, and especially electrical, is actually the study of
applied mathematics. That never becomes obsolete because the
underlying phenomena are based on the laws of physics.