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#91
posted to rec.boats
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We can't do nuttin'...
On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:59:01 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote: On 10/13/15 6:49 PM, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... Harry ... you commented to Greg the following: "You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties." Never the twain shall meet. They are both intolerant in their own ways. Greg will never understand Dostoyevsky, and Harry will never understand Ayn Rand. The big difference between them is their exposure to both. And so it goes. I read two of Ms. Rand's novels when I was in the 7th grade. I understand her points and I realized she was just a bloody awful writer and her prose was turgid, and that would be a compliment. I tend to agree. I never really understood why people cherry pick the libertarian jewels out of that crap and then act like she was Shakespear. |
#92
posted to rec.boats
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We can't do nuttin'...
On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 19:55:48 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote: I don't know any "professional" students. Just because you don't know many people born after the Carter administration. The way the current student loan scam is structured, kids have to stay in school or they have to start paying down the loan ... but if you are staying in school, you are racking up more principal, while that interest is still compounding on your back. If you can't make enough money to eat and cover that minimum loan payment, you have to go back to school in hopes another degree will do the trick and it generally doesn't.. I know several "kids" (30 sumpin) in that exact jam. Crack has nothing on the student loan program. They both have the effect that the more you take, the more you need. Another case of, "We are from the government and we are here to help" ;-) |
#93
posted to rec.boats
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We can't do nuttin'...
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#95
posted to rec.boats
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We can't do nuttin'...
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:34:49 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: I'm fairly certain you are not in charge of deciding what comprises "useful skills. We also differ on the purpose of education. You and most others here have the trade school concept...you get educated in order to get and hold a job. I think the purpose of education is to instill a desire to learn, and to teach students how to use their minds, and where to go to acquire the facts they need in order to make intelligent decisions. Most "useful" skills come from things I learned on my own and experience. I think "useful" is the ability to take care of everything around me. (house, car, boat etc) without having to call anyone. Things I do just for esoterica are "hobbies" like reading statutes and SCOTUS decisions. Again it was "useful" when I was trying to buy the house next door in a tax deed sale and later a foreclosure auction. I did hire a real lawyer but I was a little disappointed when his title search looked exactly like mine, his advice looked exactly like the notes I had already made and the last straw was when I pointed out to him a little known blurb in the Florida law that allows a mortgage to be un enforcible if the holder does not service it for a period of time. He had the gall to call me a day later and tell me about it, like I had not just given him the exact statute number and line number the day before. I will never have a law degree but it doesn't mean I can't read the law with a pretty good degree of understanding. I dabble in astrophysics. I will never be Neil Degrasse Tyson but I think I could have a decent conversation with him. I like history but I will never be a degreed historian. That doesn't keep me from reading about it. Perhaps without listening to lectures that are loaded with opinion, I am actually free to have one of my own. At that point, who is the person with independent thought? I thought of Harry this morning. http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine |
#96
posted to rec.boats
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We can't do nuttin'...
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/14/2015 1:12 AM, wrote: On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 10:48:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Turns out I would have followed the same career path and would have been able to accomplish whatever I have in my accomplishment bucket without the degree. It certainly helped. But, (and you may find this impossible to understand or believe), the Navy electronic and electrical schools covered the same technical material in a much more comprehensive way when compared to the civilian colleges and universities where I also took courses. That was my experience. I took basic electricity 101 and basic electronics 101. (Essentially DC circuits and AC circuits respectively) All it really did for me was allow me to get 104 out of 108 on the ETST and allowed me to go to FT school Once I got there, I had pretty much wrapped up everything I learned in "college " in a couple of weeks, my coasting was over and I had to "turn to". As I recall, "BE&E" school was a prerequisite course for several Navy ratings including ET's, RM's, GM's, FT's and others. I was originally designated to become a RM (Radioman). I had attended college for a while before entering the Navy (in a liberal arts program) and I remember that I struggled a bit with some of the math in BE&E school. Math had never been a strong subject for me, even in high school. Fortunately, a classmate had recently graduated from college with a math degree before he joined the Navy and he tutored me a bit to help me with the math. Later, I converted to ET and was designated as a ETN ... meaning I was to specialize in communications electronics. Another branch of ET school was for ETR's who specialized in radar electronics. These schools were much longer ... and whoever graduated first in class in his/her respective rating (ETN or ETR) was allowed to go through the other branch of ET school as well. Somehow I managed to graduate first in class in the ETN branch and was allowed to then go through the ETR course as well. Many of the course segments were the same for both, so it didn't take as long to finish the ETR branch. The result was that with additional duties at the school, I spent 2 years at Great Lakes, just attending (and then teaching) electronics courses. Teaching is a great way to learn, BTW. I was sent a draft notice while in NCR 315 Computer school. 36 weeks on the whole system. 40 hour weeks. That is equivalent to maybe 80 semester units. I joined the SF reserve and was sent to a 36 week school for ground nav aids. ils, tacan, loran, etc. since I already had a background in electronics, the AF allowed 4 of us to challenge the classes. A week later we had cut 10 weeks off the course. 1/2 the course was basic electronics, and 1/2 was on the equipment. Could not skip on the equipment side. Ended up fixing radar units on transports during my reserve duty. I learned a lot more electronics in NCR school than in my degree courses. As Greg says, we got lots of training from our employers. |
#97
posted to rec.boats
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We can't do nuttin'...
On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:03:57 -0700, Califbill billnews wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 10/14/2015 1:12 AM, wrote: On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 10:48:45 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Turns out I would have followed the same career path and would have been able to accomplish whatever I have in my accomplishment bucket without the degree. It certainly helped. But, (and you may find this impossible to understand or believe), the Navy electronic and electrical schools covered the same technical material in a much more comprehensive way when compared to the civilian colleges and universities where I also took courses. That was my experience. I took basic electricity 101 and basic electronics 101. (Essentially DC circuits and AC circuits respectively) All it really did for me was allow me to get 104 out of 108 on the ETST and allowed me to go to FT school Once I got there, I had pretty much wrapped up everything I learned in "college " in a couple of weeks, my coasting was over and I had to "turn to". As I recall, "BE&E" school was a prerequisite course for several Navy ratings including ET's, RM's, GM's, FT's and others. I was originally designated to become a RM (Radioman). I had attended college for a while before entering the Navy (in a liberal arts program) and I remember that I struggled a bit with some of the math in BE&E school. Math had never been a strong subject for me, even in high school. Fortunately, a classmate had recently graduated from college with a math degree before he joined the Navy and he tutored me a bit to help me with the math. Later, I converted to ET and was designated as a ETN ... meaning I was to specialize in communications electronics. Another branch of ET school was for ETR's who specialized in radar electronics. These schools were much longer ... and whoever graduated first in class in his/her respective rating (ETN or ETR) was allowed to go through the other branch of ET school as well. Somehow I managed to graduate first in class in the ETN branch and was allowed to then go through the ETR course as well. Many of the course segments were the same for both, so it didn't take as long to finish the ETR branch. The result was that with additional duties at the school, I spent 2 years at Great Lakes, just attending (and then teaching) electronics courses. Teaching is a great way to learn, BTW. I was sent a draft notice while in NCR 315 Computer school. 36 weeks on the whole system. 40 hour weeks. That is equivalent to maybe 80 semester units. I joined the SF reserve and was sent to a 36 week school for ground nav aids. ils, tacan, loran, etc. since I already had a background in electronics, the AF allowed 4 of us to challenge the classes. A week later we had cut 10 weeks off the course. 1/2 the course was basic electronics, and 1/2 was on the equipment. Could not skip on the equipment side. Ended up fixing radar units on transports during my reserve duty. I learned a lot more electronics in NCR school than in my degree courses. As Greg says, we got lots of training from our employers. My best education was after the machines got to the point that they didn't break and pretty mich fixed themselves when they did. We were moving to "services". I did a contract class that was a pretty good primer into contract law. We had a great class about telling the phone company that they had to do their job. No more of an installer repairman responding to a data call, pulling out his butt set and saying "Bob how does the line sound on your end". We had better test equipment than they did. That also covered the various transmission protocols and what actually happened on the line side of the modem. It actually made the phone company get better. That morphed into "connectivity" the school I went to that got me BICSI certified (data cabling) Then I went in an entirely different direction with Installation Planning, the design of computer rooms (Electrical HVAC and physical layout). There was a lot more attached to that but the biggest one here was lightning protection. That ended up being mostly self taught since we were on the leading edge of that science/art. Practice did not actually have much to do with the theory the engineers were bringing to the table. The UCF knew everything there was to know about attracting lightning and what was going on in a strike but they didn't understand much about preventing damage to the equipment. I spent a lot of time with the guys at State Farm in Winter Haven and they were actually working on this from the equipment side. We expanded their findings in Ft Myers and made our lightning calls drop to just about zero. |
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