We can't do nuttin'...
 

On 10/13/2015 8:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2015 7:16 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze

wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze

wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze

g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the
money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech
jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are
talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have
discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a
trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the
need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be
self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing
member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The
need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a
young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual
curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest
labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive
loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming
out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge
debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely
wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I
think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making
a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have
discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a
job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are
gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can
see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no
appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts
of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da
Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The
Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and
widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was
after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of
different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of
thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so
much
college level information on the internet that the only
reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper,
in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own
enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that
education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a
return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the
cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in
universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had
Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students
complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice
President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to
suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's
desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying
them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit
after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you
don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.


Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never
obsolete.
May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster,
and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want
these days, is for old analog engineers.

Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns
in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most
part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist.
Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and
writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught
in school.

The writer's posit is wrong.



The writer has no clue what engineering is or the courses of study
taught to become one. Young's modulus hasn't changed but in the field
of structural mechanical engineering composite materials and
"engineered" components has certainly changed how structures, aircraft
and even automobiles are designed. In the general field of electrical
and electronics, digital communications has it's modern roots in Morse
Code and 8 bit Teletype systems. Nothing is really "new". Technical
advancements are mostly improvements of prior methods.

Harry cracks me up. I took a mismatch of electrical/electronics/facility
engineering courses over the years it took to get a basic degree. None
of it applied directly to what I ended up doing during
my working career but much of the math and physics involved were very
much related. For example, the principles of electromagnetic radiation
and energy transfer in the field of thin film optical coatings are
very similar to that of RF transmission systems. Same use of a Smith
chart, same basic principles except at a much, much shorter wavelength.
It was easier for me with a background in transmitter and radar systems
to get my head wrapped around thin films in optics than most mechanical
types.






You're talking way over Harry's head.

We can't do nuttin'...
 

On 10/13/2015 8:29 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/13/15 9:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2015 7:16 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze

wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze

wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze

wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze

g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the
money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech
jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are
talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have
discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a
trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the
need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be
self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing
member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The
need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a
young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual
curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest
labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive
loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming
out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge
debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely
wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I
think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making
a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have
discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a
trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a
job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are
gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can
see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no
appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts
of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da
Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The
Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and
widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was
after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of
different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of
thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so
much
college level information on the internet that the only
reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper,
in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own
enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that
education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a
return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to
learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the
cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in
universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had
Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students
complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice
President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to
suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too
many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's
desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying
them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit
after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you
don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit
path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.


Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never
obsolete.
May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than
faster,
and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big
want
these days, is for old analog engineers.

Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns
in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most
part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist.
Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and
writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught
in school.

The writer's posit is wrong.



The writer has no clue what engineering is or the courses of study
taught to become one. Young's modulus hasn't changed but in the field
of structural mechanical engineering composite materials and
"engineered" components has certainly changed how structures, aircraft
and even automobiles are designed. In the general field of electrical
and electronics, digital communications has it's modern roots in Morse
Code and 8 bit Teletype systems. Nothing is really "new". Technical
advancements are mostly improvements of prior methods.



What? You needed college? Couldn't a stint in the Navy and some
workbooks teach you all you needed to know?

Apparently you boys never studied...satire. :)

Andy borrowed wits has that department covered. You aren't a satirist.
You're just weird.

We can't do nuttin'...
 

On 10/13/15 12:06 AM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.




Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete.
May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster,
and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want
these days, is for old analog engineers.



Gee, Bilious, I hope the taxpayers of your state didn't subsidize your
education. Why was college necessary, anyway? Couldn't you have picked
up some workbooks at the library or gotten your education in the
military? :)

We can't do nuttin'...
 

On 10/13/2015 7:16 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.


Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete.
May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster,
and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want
these days, is for old analog engineers.

Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist. Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught in school.

The writer's posit is wrong.



The writer has no clue what engineering is or the courses of study
taught to become one. Young's modulus hasn't changed but in the field
of structural mechanical engineering composite materials and
"engineered" components has certainly changed how structures, aircraft
and even automobiles are designed. In the general field of electrical
and electronics, digital communications has it's modern roots in Morse
Code and 8 bit Teletype systems. Nothing is really "new". Technical
advancements are mostly improvements of prior methods.

Harry cracks me up. I took a mismatch of electrical/electronics/facility
engineering courses over the years it took to get a basic degree. None
of it applied directly to what I ended up doing during
my working career but much of the math and physics involved were very
much related. For example, the principles of electromagnetic radiation
and energy transfer in the field of thin film optical coatings are
very similar to that of RF transmission systems. Same use of a Smith
chart, same basic principles except at a much, much shorter wavelength.
It was easier for me with a background in transmitter and radar systems
to get my head wrapped around thin films in optics than most mechanical
types.

We can't do nuttin'...
 

On 10/13/15 9:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2015 7:16 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze

wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze

wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze

g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the
money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech
jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are
talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have
discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a
trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the
need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be
self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing
member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The
need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a
young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual
curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest
labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive
loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming
out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge
debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely
wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I
think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making
a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have
discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a
job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are
gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can
see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no
appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts
of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da
Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The
Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and
widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was
after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of
different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of
thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so
much
college level information on the internet that the only
reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper,
in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own
enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that
education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a
return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the
cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in
universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had
Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students
complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice
President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to
suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's
desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying
them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit
after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you
don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.


Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never
obsolete.
May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster,
and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want
these days, is for old analog engineers.

Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns
in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most
part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist.
Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and
writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught
in school.

The writer's posit is wrong.



The writer has no clue what engineering is or the courses of study
taught to become one. Young's modulus hasn't changed but in the field
of structural mechanical engineering composite materials and
"engineered" components has certainly changed how structures, aircraft
and even automobiles are designed. In the general field of electrical
and electronics, digital communications has it's modern roots in Morse
Code and 8 bit Teletype systems. Nothing is really "new". Technical
advancements are mostly improvements of prior methods.



What? You needed college? Couldn't a stint in the Navy and some
workbooks teach you all you needed to know?

Apparently you boys never studied...satire. :)

We can't do nuttin'...
 

On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:02:31 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.

===

That's not really true except at the nuts and bolts device level. All
engineering, and especially electrical, is actually the study of
applied mathematics. That never becomes obsolete because the
underlying phenomena are based on the laws of physics.

We can't do nuttin'...
 

On 10/13/2015 9:19 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/13/15 10:03 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2015 8:21 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:



You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity
parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that
education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a
return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to
learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the
cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in
universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had
Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students
complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice
President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to
suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too
many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's
desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying
them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit
after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you
don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit
path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.


Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never
obsolete..
May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than
faster,
and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big
want
these days, is for old analog engineers.

Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns
in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most
part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist.
Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and
writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught
in school.

The writer's posit is wrong.

There are no known uses for Harry's skills and training.


Harry reminds me very much of someone else I know who is just about
the same age as Harry.

He majored in college in English with a minor in journalism.
Following graduation he entered the Army. I think he was drafted
because he only served for two years as a second lieutenant which
included a short tour of duty in Vietnam as an Army
journalist/photographer.

Today, 40 something years later, in social gatherings he invariably
ends up talking about his time in the Army and the fact that he's a vet.
He has "Vietnam Vet" tags on his car and wears the typical "Vietnam Vet"
geezer ball cap wherever he goes. He's proud of his service but after
a while the constant references to his service starts to become
repetitious and obnoxious in a way, especially to other vets like me
who spent many more years on active duty but rarely talk about it or
even think about it. It was a period of time for most of us .. a
chapter in our lives ... and we all moved on.

I was talking to my wife about him after he visited us a while back and
mentioned that he seemed to be living in the past all the time. Then it
dawned on me why. The time he spent in the Army writing news stories
was the highlight of his entire working career. He never really did
much else of any consequence. He wrote for various local and small town
newspapers or periodicals as a free-lance contributor from time to time
but that was about it. His wife worked full time for a major company
for over 20 years while he did various odd-jobs, more as a "handyman"
with the occasional writing for the local paper.

I've met and known hundreds of engineers and physicists over the years.
None spend much time talking about their degrees, how many they hold or
even where they went to school. It really doesn't matter in the real
world, other than getting the job opportunity in the first place.

Harry reminds me of the guy I described. Based on his countless posts
about his education, his multiple degrees and his sense that the
education, types of degrees and work experience can't possibly compare
to his capability of "abstract thinking" (which, BTW, is part of *any*
college level ... heck .. even high school level course of study) makes
me think the highlight of *his* career was going to school and that's
about it, much like the other guy who's highlight was his two year stint
in the Army .... 40 something years ago.




It's incredible to me how obsessed you right-wingers are with me.

There is no way I would discuss my past or present professional work in
any detail in this pigpen of conservative crappers. Just the other day,
Fretwell "accused" me of being a fan of Cuba's Castro brothers when, in
fact, for more than 15 years I have been working as a consultant with an
NGO that does what it can to create problems for them. Another of my
clients trains indigenous populations in the third world to build and
maintain sustainable communities -housing and water, mostly. A third is
a multi-billion dollar investment management firm. A fourth is a labor
union. Oh, I was one of six members of a labor union team that twice
negotiated the largest labor union contract in the United States.

No, I don't brag about my days in the Army. Fortunately, I didn't have any.

The reluctant virgin here, by the way, is your buddy FlaJim. What has he
posted here about his boat, his work since being mustered out of the
navy, his wife, his kids, his anything? Answer...nothing.

Have nice day.

I don't want people calling me a braggart. :-)

We can't do nuttin'...
 

On 10/13/2015 8:21 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:



You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that
education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a
return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the
cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in
universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had
Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students
complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice
President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to
suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's
desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying
them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit
after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you
don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.


Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never
obsolete..
May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster,
and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want
these days, is for old analog engineers.

Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns
in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most
part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist.
Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and
writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught
in school.

The writer's posit is wrong.

There are no known uses for Harry's skills and training.


Harry reminds me very much of someone else I know who is just about
the same age as Harry.

He majored in college in English with a minor in journalism.
Following graduation he entered the Army. I think he was drafted
because he only served for two years as a second lieutenant which
included a short tour of duty in Vietnam as an Army journalist/photographer.

Today, 40 something years later, in social gatherings he invariably
ends up talking about his time in the Army and the fact that he's a vet.
He has "Vietnam Vet" tags on his car and wears the typical "Vietnam Vet"
geezer ball cap wherever he goes. He's proud of his service but after
a while the constant references to his service starts to become
repetitious and obnoxious in a way, especially to other vets like me
who spent many more years on active duty but rarely talk about it or
even think about it. It was a period of time for most of us .. a
chapter in our lives ... and we all moved on.

I was talking to my wife about him after he visited us a while back and
mentioned that he seemed to be living in the past all the time. Then it
dawned on me why. The time he spent in the Army writing news stories
was the highlight of his entire working career. He never really did
much else of any consequence. He wrote for various local and small town
newspapers or periodicals as a free-lance contributor from time to time
but that was about it. His wife worked full time for a major company
for over 20 years while he did various odd-jobs, more as a "handyman"
with the occasional writing for the local paper.

I've met and known hundreds of engineers and physicists over the years.
None spend much time talking about their degrees, how many they hold or
even where they went to school. It really doesn't matter in the real
world, other than getting the job opportunity in the first place.

Harry reminds me of the guy I described. Based on his countless posts
about his education, his multiple degrees and his sense that the
education, types of degrees and work experience can't possibly compare
to his capability of "abstract thinking" (which, BTW, is part of *any*
college level ... heck .. even high school level course of study) makes
me think the highlight of *his* career was going to school and that's
about it, much like the other guy who's highlight was his two year stint
in the Army .... 40 something years ago.

We can't do nuttin'...
 

On 10/13/15 10:03 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2015 8:21 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:



You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that
education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a
return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to
learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the
cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in
universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had
Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students
complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice
President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to
suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too
many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's
desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying
them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit
after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you
don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit
path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.


Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never
obsolete..
May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than
faster,
and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big
want
these days, is for old analog engineers.

Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns
in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most
part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist.
Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and
writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught
in school.

The writer's posit is wrong.

There are no known uses for Harry's skills and training.


Harry reminds me very much of someone else I know who is just about
the same age as Harry.

He majored in college in English with a minor in journalism.
Following graduation he entered the Army. I think he was drafted
because he only served for two years as a second lieutenant which
included a short tour of duty in Vietnam as an Army
journalist/photographer.

Today, 40 something years later, in social gatherings he invariably
ends up talking about his time in the Army and the fact that he's a vet.
He has "Vietnam Vet" tags on his car and wears the typical "Vietnam Vet"
geezer ball cap wherever he goes. He's proud of his service but after
a while the constant references to his service starts to become
repetitious and obnoxious in a way, especially to other vets like me
who spent many more years on active duty but rarely talk about it or
even think about it. It was a period of time for most of us .. a
chapter in our lives ... and we all moved on.

I was talking to my wife about him after he visited us a while back and
mentioned that he seemed to be living in the past all the time. Then it
dawned on me why. The time he spent in the Army writing news stories
was the highlight of his entire working career. He never really did
much else of any consequence. He wrote for various local and small town
newspapers or periodicals as a free-lance contributor from time to time
but that was about it. His wife worked full time for a major company
for over 20 years while he did various odd-jobs, more as a "handyman"
with the occasional writing for the local paper.

I've met and known hundreds of engineers and physicists over the years.
None spend much time talking about their degrees, how many they hold or
even where they went to school. It really doesn't matter in the real
world, other than getting the job opportunity in the first place.

Harry reminds me of the guy I described. Based on his countless posts
about his education, his multiple degrees and his sense that the
education, types of degrees and work experience can't possibly compare
to his capability of "abstract thinking" (which, BTW, is part of *any*
college level ... heck .. even high school level course of study) makes
me think the highlight of *his* career was going to school and that's
about it, much like the other guy who's highlight was his two year stint
in the Army .... 40 something years ago.




It's incredible to me how obsessed you right-wingers are with me.

There is no way I would discuss my past or present professional work in
any detail in this pigpen of conservative crappers. Just the other day,
Fretwell "accused" me of being a fan of Cuba's Castro brothers when, in
fact, for more than 15 years I have been working as a consultant with an
NGO that does what it can to create problems for them. Another of my
clients trains indigenous populations in the third world to build and
maintain sustainable communities -housing and water, mostly. A third is
a multi-billion dollar investment management firm. A fourth is a labor
union. Oh, I was one of six members of a labor union team that twice
negotiated the largest labor union contract in the United States.

No, I don't brag about my days in the Army. Fortunately, I didn't have any.

The reluctant virgin here, by the way, is your buddy FlaJim. What has he
posted here about his boat, his work since being mustered out of the
navy, his wife, his kids, his anything? Answer...nothing.

Have nice day.

We can't do nuttin'...
 

On 10/13/2015 8:53 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 10/13/2015 8:29 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/13/15 9:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2015 7:16 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:06:33 AM UTC-4, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze

wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze

wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze

wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze

g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the
money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech
jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are
talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have
discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a
trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the
need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be
self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing
member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The
need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a
young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual
curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest
labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive
loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming
out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge
debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely
wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I
think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making
a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have
discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a
trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a
job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are
gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can
see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no
appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts
of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric
pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da
Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The
Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and
widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was
after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of
different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of
thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so
much
college level information on the internet that the only
reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper,
in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own
enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity
parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that
education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a
return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to
learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the
cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in
universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had
Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students
complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice
President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to
suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too
many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's
desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying
them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit
after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you
don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit
path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.


Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never
obsolete.
May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than
faster,
and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big
want
these days, is for old analog engineers.

Ohm's Law hasn't changed. As you point out, everything an EE learns
in school still applies, just with different packaging for the most
part. When our main design engineer graduated, DSP's didn't exist.
Now our product is loaded with them, and he designs the circuits and
writes the code. The rest of the circuitry is exactly what was taught
in school.

The writer's posit is wrong.



The writer has no clue what engineering is or the courses of study
taught to become one. Young's modulus hasn't changed but in the field
of structural mechanical engineering composite materials and
"engineered" components has certainly changed how structures, aircraft
and even automobiles are designed. In the general field of electrical
and electronics, digital communications has it's modern roots in Morse
Code and 8 bit Teletype systems. Nothing is really "new". Technical
advancements are mostly improvements of prior methods.



What? You needed college? Couldn't a stint in the Navy and some
workbooks teach you all you needed to know?

Apparently you boys never studied...satire. :)

Andy borrowed wits has that department covered. You aren't a satirist.
You're just weird.


I guess I need to let Harry loose from the Bozo Bin. Getting to be too
much of a pain to respond to his quotes in other people's posts.

Harry ... you commented to Greg the following:

"You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity
parties."

This is an example of your shallow and misguided idea of what college
is.

Greg may not hold a formal degree but it's obvious he doesn't need one.
He's knowledgeable about many things and has exercised his intellectual
curiosity to learn and accomplish more than many "highly educated"
engineers or technical types I've known over the years.

Also ... you just posted (above):

"What? You needed college? Couldn't a stint in the Navy and some
workbooks teach you all you needed to know?"

The answer to those questions (in my case) are "no" and "yes".
I only pursued a degree because I thought I'd need it (it's what
everyone told me, anyway) following my time in the Navy.

Turns out I would have followed the same career path and would have been
able to accomplish whatever I have in my accomplishment bucket without
the degree. It certainly helped. But, (and you may find this impossible
to understand or believe), the Navy electronic and electrical schools
covered the same technical material in a much more comprehensive way
when compared to the civilian colleges and universities where I also
took courses.

In civilian schools I had more problems with "Business Law 101" and
"Accounting II". The electrical and electronics were duck soup for me
and I usually ended up helping others in the classes get concepts clear
in their heads.

Back in high school I remember being told, "you don't need to know
all the answers ... you just need to know where to look for them".