On 10/5/15 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:44:41 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/5/15 3:35 PM, True North wrote:
The Johnny spews..

"One round'll getcha all."

Heard that a bunch of times!"


Really...did you ever learn your lessons?



Frankly, I think the "advice" being given here on how best to protect
yourself and others from a mass murderer armed with firearms is so much
happy horse****.

When the alternative is to sit still and wait your turn to be shot,
why is fighting back "horse ****". The shooter wants to control the
room, don't let him.
These guys are insecure losers most of the time and if you can disrupt
their plan, and confuse them, you might get the seconds you need to
take him down. You certainly do not want to follow the order to all
get in one corner. Spread out and try to surround him. If nothing
else, it is harder to hit a moving target.
I would rather die fighting than praying or crying.

I also believe filling the air with thrown objects will enhance the
chaos and disrupt his plan.

Are you really going to be the one saying "there is nothing you can
do"?



I don't think you're going to get a bunch of students in an American
classroom to do much of anything in concert. Plus, if a shooter walks
into a classroom, the students will likely be sitting down at desks or
maybe in a lecture hall.

The crux is to keep firearms out of the hands of the crazies. There are
things that can be down that will help in that direction.

On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:51:03 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

The crux is to keep firearms out of the hands of the crazies. There are
things that can be down that will help in that direction.

===

Maybe but it apparently hasn't done much to deter you.

On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:51:03 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/5/15 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:44:41 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/5/15 3:35 PM, True North wrote:
The Johnny spews..

"One round'll getcha all."

Heard that a bunch of times!"


Really...did you ever learn your lessons?



Frankly, I think the "advice" being given here on how best to protect
yourself and others from a mass murderer armed with firearms is so much
happy horse****.

When the alternative is to sit still and wait your turn to be shot,
why is fighting back "horse ****". The shooter wants to control the
room, don't let him.
These guys are insecure losers most of the time and if you can disrupt
their plan, and confuse them, you might get the seconds you need to
take him down. You certainly do not want to follow the order to all
get in one corner. Spread out and try to surround him. If nothing
else, it is harder to hit a moving target.
I would rather die fighting than praying or crying.

I also believe filling the air with thrown objects will enhance the
chaos and disrupt his plan.

Are you really going to be the one saying "there is nothing you can
do"?



I don't think you're going to get a bunch of students in an American
classroom to do much of anything in concert. Plus, if a shooter walks
into a classroom, the students will likely be sitting down at desks or
maybe in a lecture hall.


Maybe that is something they should work on.
I think you are just underestimating what people can do
Passengers fighting back has more to do with stopping hijacking than
anything TSA is doing. There still seems to be no problem getting a
gun on a plane but I doubt you could take an airliner with an uzi
today. People understand this is not going to be a trip to Cuba. This
guy plans on killing everyone.

The crux is to keep firearms out of the hands of the crazies. There are
things that can be down that will help in that direction.

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

===

Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic
weapon on a 3D printer. Control that.

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

===

Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic
weapon on a 3D printer. Control that.

As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink".
Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures
and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts.
OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so
they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins,
extractors, springs and such)

On 10/5/2015 7:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

===

Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic
weapon on a 3D printer. Control that.

As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink".
Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures
and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts.
OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so
they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins,
extractors, springs and such)



There's at least one handgun called "The Liberator" that is completely
plastic and 3D printed except for one part. It uses a common nail as
the firing pin. Everything else, including the barrel, is plastic.

On 10/5/2015 7:32 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/5/2015 7:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

===

Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic
weapon on a 3D printer. Control that.

As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink".
Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures
and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts.
OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so
they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins,
extractors, springs and such)



There's at least one handgun called "The Liberator" that is completely
plastic and 3D printed except for one part. It uses a common nail as
the firing pin. Everything else, including the barrel, is plastic.




Even has a 3D printed plastic spring.

On 10/5/2015 7:32 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/5/2015 7:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

===

Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic
weapon on a 3D printer. Control that.

As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink".
Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures
and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts.
OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so
they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins,
extractors, springs and such)



There's at least one handgun called "The Liberator" that is completely
plastic and 3D printed except for one part. It uses a common nail as
the firing pin. Everything else, including the barrel, is plastic.




Here's a picture of it. 16 parts, 15 of which are all 3D printed
plastic. Only the hardware store variety nail that is used as the
firing pin is not printed or plastic.

http://tinyurl.com/p3vcfxj

On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 19:32:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/5/2015 7:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

===

Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic
weapon on a 3D printer. Control that.

As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink".
Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures
and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts.
OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so
they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins,
extractors, springs and such)



There's at least one handgun called "The Liberator" that is completely
plastic and 3D printed except for one part. It uses a common nail as
the firing pin. Everything else, including the barrel, is plastic.



I saw that and I saw him fire a shot out of it but I bet up around
round 2 or 3 it is a musket and after that it is potentiality a
grenade. (even with a relatively wimpy round like the .380 this gun
shoots)
Barrel erosion will be a serious problem, even in a single shot gun
like this.
To make a real gun, you need a steel barrel, particularly an
"automatic" weapon like Wayne described. The physics of ejecting a
round and loading another one requires some mass too.

I made single shot "zip guns" when I was about 12-13 but I would not
try to make anything that was a repeater. You can make a very
serviceable single shot 12 gauge from stuff you get at Home Depot. The
best pipe is actually from the "monkey bars" down at the grade school.
You will have to trick someone into threading it tho. ;-)

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

===

Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic
weapon on a 3D printer. Control that.

As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink".
Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures
and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts.
OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so
they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins,
extractors, springs and such)


===

Even the 3D printers of today can be used to make high precision
templates which an amateur machinist can use with jigs, routers,
Dremel tools, etc. to turn out everything that's needed. It's just a
matter of time before the plans show up for downloading along with a
couple of "how to" videos on YouTube.