On 6/4/2015 4:09 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/4/15 3:25 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/4/2015 3:20 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/4/15 3:05 PM, jps wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:25:58 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/3/2015 9:40 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/3/15 9:31 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/3/2015 6:51 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
When a student in Louisiana opens her textbook in biology class,
she
might not have the standard Miller and Levine Biology with a
dragonfly
on the cover, and she might not ever learn about evolution. For
some
Louisiana *public school* students, their science textbook is the
Bible,
and in biology class they read the Book of Genesis to learn the
“creation point of view.”

http://tinyurl.com/q75dhm4

Ah, Louisiana is raising its next generation of ignorant, stupid,
superstitious morons… The bible has no place in the public
schools as a
source of factual material.


Suggest you go read your own link again. They are not primarily
teaching creationism as "the" origin of life. They also teach the
concept of evolution.

Both are presented as theories and creationism is presented as an
argument against the theory of evolution. It's not singularly
taught in
the biology class curriculum.







The bible has no place in the public's schools as "an argument
against
the theory of evolution. The ignorant simply do not understand what
"theory" means in the context of evolutionary theory.

Actually, the bible has no place in the public's K-12 schools, other
than a brief mention of it as the underpinning of several religions.


Here's the problem as I see it. These kids are going to public school
and learning the "approved" course of evolution in their biology
class.
This makes the federal government and people like yourself happy.

Then, particularly in the south, they learn about creationism at
home or
in their Sunday School classes.

They are now confused. Which is the correct story?

Isn't it better to present both as theories that people can make their
own minds up about? Isn't that the purpose of general education?
Why does it have to be only one discussion?

One is a theory, supported by observable science. The other is a
collection of stories that have little if any basis in fact, assuming
facts require the support of evidence.



Hard as it may be to believe, *I* had religious training when I was a
youngster, and read about and was *taught* many of the tales in the
bible, including that nonsense in Genesis about creation. I don't recall
more than two or three kids who accepted the bible as anything other
than a text in which belief in what it stated was based almost entirely
on faith.

I might have been 10 or 11 when I gave up entirely on belief in a
creator. One of the kids down the street was diagnosed with leukemia and
died in a couple of months, despite many efforts to save him. That was
my first sort of direct encounter with death, and when we kids talked
about it, several of us concluded there obviously was no god because if
there was, he/she/it wouldn't let innocent little kids die of horrific
diseases. In junior high and high school I was friends with a kid who
had contracted polio and while he survived, he was left with a limp and
a leg brace. Fortunately, he was a really smart kid in science and math
and there was no doubt he would "make it" in the world, but, again, I
wondered, why would god let a kid contract polio?

God is a construct of man. It isn't the other way around. The bible is a
nice book of mostly fictional stories written, edited, and compiled by
men and turned into beautiful English in the King James version. It's a
great read, for sure, but it isn't reality, history, or science.
It's fiction.




None of that matters to those who have faith. You seem to have a hard
time understanding that.


The problem arises not because of their faith, but because they try to
push their religious beliefs on those who believe differently or not at
all.

Sounds like a familiar theme around here.

On 6/4/2015 4:54 PM, jps wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 15:25:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/4/2015 3:20 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/4/15 3:05 PM, jps wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:25:58 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/3/2015 9:40 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/3/15 9:31 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/3/2015 6:51 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
When a student in Louisiana opens her textbook in biology class, she
might not have the standard Miller and Levine Biology with a
dragonfly
on the cover, and she might not ever learn about evolution. For some
Louisiana *public school* students, their science textbook is the
Bible,
and in biology class they read the Book of Genesis to learn the
“creation point of view.”

http://tinyurl.com/q75dhm4

Ah, Louisiana is raising its next generation of ignorant, stupid,
superstitious morons… The bible has no place in the public
schools as a
source of factual material.


Suggest you go read your own link again. They are not primarily
teaching creationism as "the" origin of life. They also teach the
concept of evolution.

Both are presented as theories and creationism is presented as an
argument against the theory of evolution. It's not singularly
taught in
the biology class curriculum.







The bible has no place in the public's schools as "an argument against
the theory of evolution. The ignorant simply do not understand what
"theory" means in the context of evolutionary theory.

Actually, the bible has no place in the public's K-12 schools, other
than a brief mention of it as the underpinning of several religions.


Here's the problem as I see it. These kids are going to public school
and learning the "approved" course of evolution in their biology class.
This makes the federal government and people like yourself happy.

Then, particularly in the south, they learn about creationism at home or
in their Sunday School classes.

They are now confused. Which is the correct story?

Isn't it better to present both as theories that people can make their
own minds up about? Isn't that the purpose of general education?
Why does it have to be only one discussion?

One is a theory, supported by observable science. The other is a
collection of stories that have little if any basis in fact, assuming
facts require the support of evidence.



Hard as it may be to believe, *I* had religious training when I was a
youngster, and read about and was *taught* many of the tales in the
bible, including that nonsense in Genesis about creation. I don't recall
more than two or three kids who accepted the bible as anything other
than a text in which belief in what it stated was based almost entirely
on faith.

I might have been 10 or 11 when I gave up entirely on belief in a
creator. One of the kids down the street was diagnosed with leukemia and
died in a couple of months, despite many efforts to save him. That was
my first sort of direct encounter with death, and when we kids talked
about it, several of us concluded there obviously was no god because if
there was, he/she/it wouldn't let innocent little kids die of horrific
diseases. In junior high and high school I was friends with a kid who
had contracted polio and while he survived, he was left with a limp and
a leg brace. Fortunately, he was a really smart kid in science and math
and there was no doubt he would "make it" in the world, but, again, I
wondered, why would god let a kid contract polio?

God is a construct of man. It isn't the other way around. The bible is a
nice book of mostly fictional stories written, edited, and compiled by
men and turned into beautiful English in the King James version. It's a
great read, for sure, but it isn't reality, history, or science.
It's fiction.




None of that matters to those who have faith. You seem to have a hard
time understanding that.

The same "faith" they try to shove down the throats of others. As if
their version has any more validity than the Mormons or the
Scientologists, just because they're ancient.

If there were a god, the Duggars would have been rendered impotent.



I have people calling me or emailing me just about every day trying to
shove something down my throat. Could be a car dealership, Direct TV,
or one of a hundred other marketeers of services. products or fund raisers.

I am a big boy. I know how to say no.

On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 17:58:07 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/4/2015 4:54 PM, jps wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 15:25:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/4/2015 3:20 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/4/15 3:05 PM, jps wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:25:58 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/3/2015 9:40 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/3/15 9:31 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/3/2015 6:51 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
When a student in Louisiana opens her textbook in biology class, she
might not have the standard Miller and Levine Biology with a
dragonfly
on the cover, and she might not ever learn about evolution. For some
Louisiana *public school* students, their science textbook is the
Bible,
and in biology class they read the Book of Genesis to learn the
“creation point of view.”

http://tinyurl.com/q75dhm4

Ah, Louisiana is raising its next generation of ignorant, stupid,
superstitious morons… The bible has no place in the public
schools as a
source of factual material.


Suggest you go read your own link again. They are not primarily
teaching creationism as "the" origin of life. They also teach the
concept of evolution.

Both are presented as theories and creationism is presented as an
argument against the theory of evolution. It's not singularly
taught in
the biology class curriculum.







The bible has no place in the public's schools as "an argument against
the theory of evolution. The ignorant simply do not understand what
"theory" means in the context of evolutionary theory.

Actually, the bible has no place in the public's K-12 schools, other
than a brief mention of it as the underpinning of several religions.


Here's the problem as I see it. These kids are going to public school
and learning the "approved" course of evolution in their biology class.
This makes the federal government and people like yourself happy.

Then, particularly in the south, they learn about creationism at home or
in their Sunday School classes.

They are now confused. Which is the correct story?

Isn't it better to present both as theories that people can make their
own minds up about? Isn't that the purpose of general education?
Why does it have to be only one discussion?

One is a theory, supported by observable science. The other is a
collection of stories that have little if any basis in fact, assuming
facts require the support of evidence.



Hard as it may be to believe, *I* had religious training when I was a
youngster, and read about and was *taught* many of the tales in the
bible, including that nonsense in Genesis about creation. I don't recall
more than two or three kids who accepted the bible as anything other
than a text in which belief in what it stated was based almost entirely
on faith.

I might have been 10 or 11 when I gave up entirely on belief in a
creator. One of the kids down the street was diagnosed with leukemia and
died in a couple of months, despite many efforts to save him. That was
my first sort of direct encounter with death, and when we kids talked
about it, several of us concluded there obviously was no god because if
there was, he/she/it wouldn't let innocent little kids die of horrific
diseases. In junior high and high school I was friends with a kid who
had contracted polio and while he survived, he was left with a limp and
a leg brace. Fortunately, he was a really smart kid in science and math
and there was no doubt he would "make it" in the world, but, again, I
wondered, why would god let a kid contract polio?

God is a construct of man. It isn't the other way around. The bible is a
nice book of mostly fictional stories written, edited, and compiled by
men and turned into beautiful English in the King James version. It's a
great read, for sure, but it isn't reality, history, or science.
It's fiction.




None of that matters to those who have faith. You seem to have a hard
time understanding that.

The same "faith" they try to shove down the throats of others. As if
their version has any more validity than the Mormons or the
Scientologists, just because they're ancient.

If there were a god, the Duggars would have been rendered impotent.



I have people calling me or emailing me just about every day trying to
shove something down my throat. Could be a car dealership, Direct TV,
or one of a hundred other marketeers of services. products or fund raisers.

I am a big boy. I know how to say no.

They're not threatening you with eternal hell. The sales schtick may
seem similar but the cost will hardly be the same.

jps wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 17:58:07 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/4/2015 4:54 PM, jps wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 15:25:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/4/2015 3:20 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/4/15 3:05 PM, jps wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:25:58 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/3/2015 9:40 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/3/15 9:31 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/3/2015 6:51 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
When a student in Louisiana opens her textbook in biology class, she
might not have the standard Miller and Levine Biology with a
dragonfly
on the cover, and she might not ever learn about evolution. For some
Louisiana *public school* students, their science textbook is the
Bible,
and in biology class they read the Book of Genesis to learn the
“creation point of view.”

http://tinyurl.com/q75dhm4

Ah, Louisiana is raising its next generation of ignorant, stupid,
superstitious moronsÂ… The bible has no place in the public
schools as a
source of factual material.


Suggest you go read your own link again. They are not primarily
teaching creationism as "the" origin of life. They also teach the
concept of evolution.

Both are presented as theories and creationism is presented as an
argument against the theory of evolution. It's not singularly
taught in
the biology class curriculum.







The bible has no place in the public's schools as "an argument against
the theory of evolution. The ignorant simply do not understand what
"theory" means in the context of evolutionary theory.

Actually, the bible has no place in the public's K-12 schools, other
than a brief mention of it as the underpinning of several religions.


Here's the problem as I see it. These kids are going to public school
and learning the "approved" course of evolution in their biology class.
This makes the federal government and people like yourself happy.

Then, particularly in the south, they learn about creationism at home or
in their Sunday School classes.

They are now confused. Which is the correct story?

Isn't it better to present both as theories that people can make their
own minds up about? Isn't that the purpose of general education?
Why does it have to be only one discussion?

One is a theory, supported by observable science. The other is a
collection of stories that have little if any basis in fact, assuming
facts require the support of evidence.



Hard as it may be to believe, *I* had religious training when I was a
youngster, and read about and was *taught* many of the tales in the
bible, including that nonsense in Genesis about creation. I don't recall
more than two or three kids who accepted the bible as anything other
than a text in which belief in what it stated was based almost entirely
on faith.

I might have been 10 or 11 when I gave up entirely on belief in a
creator. One of the kids down the street was diagnosed with leukemia and
died in a couple of months, despite many efforts to save him. That was
my first sort of direct encounter with death, and when we kids talked
about it, several of us concluded there obviously was no god because if
there was, he/she/it wouldn't let innocent little kids die of horrific
diseases. In junior high and high school I was friends with a kid who
had contracted polio and while he survived, he was left with a limp and
a leg brace. Fortunately, he was a really smart kid in science and math
and there was no doubt he would "make it" in the world, but, again, I
wondered, why would god let a kid contract polio?

God is a construct of man. It isn't the other way around. The bible is a
nice book of mostly fictional stories written, edited, and compiled by
men and turned into beautiful English in the King James version. It's a
great read, for sure, but it isn't reality, history, or science.
It's fiction.




None of that matters to those who have faith. You seem to have a hard
time understanding that.

The same "faith" they try to shove down the throats of others. As if
their version has any more validity than the Mormons or the
Scientologists, just because they're ancient.

If there were a god, the Duggars would have been rendered impotent.



I have people calling me or emailing me just about every day trying to
shove something down my throat. Could be a car dealership, Direct TV,
or one of a hundred other marketeers of services. products or fund raisers.

I am a big boy. I know how to say no.

They're not threatening you with eternal hell. The sales schtick may
seem similar but the cost will hardly be the same.

The sales folks are not passing laws to restrict your rights as a citizen.
The fundie Christians and their enablers are.
--
Sent from my iPhone 6+

On 4 Jun 2015 22:10:59 GMT, Keyser Söze wrote:

jps wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 17:58:07 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/4/2015 4:54 PM, jps wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 15:25:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/4/2015 3:20 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/4/15 3:05 PM, jps wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:25:58 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/3/2015 9:40 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/3/15 9:31 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/3/2015 6:51 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
When a student in Louisiana opens her textbook in biology class, she
might not have the standard Miller and Levine Biology with a
dragonfly
on the cover, and she might not ever learn about evolution. For some
Louisiana *public school* students, their science textbook is the
Bible,
and in biology class they read the Book of Genesis to learn the
?creation point of view.?

http://tinyurl.com/q75dhm4

Ah, Louisiana is raising its next generation of ignorant, stupid,
superstitious morons? The bible has no place in the public
schools as a
source of factual material.


Suggest you go read your own link again. They are not primarily
teaching creationism as "the" origin of life. They also teach the
concept of evolution.

Both are presented as theories and creationism is presented as an
argument against the theory of evolution. It's not singularly
taught in
the biology class curriculum.







The bible has no place in the public's schools as "an argument against
the theory of evolution. The ignorant simply do not understand what
"theory" means in the context of evolutionary theory.

Actually, the bible has no place in the public's K-12 schools, other
than a brief mention of it as the underpinning of several religions.


Here's the problem as I see it. These kids are going to public school
and learning the "approved" course of evolution in their biology class.
This makes the federal government and people like yourself happy.

Then, particularly in the south, they learn about creationism at home or
in their Sunday School classes.

They are now confused. Which is the correct story?

Isn't it better to present both as theories that people can make their
own minds up about? Isn't that the purpose of general education?
Why does it have to be only one discussion?

One is a theory, supported by observable science. The other is a
collection of stories that have little if any basis in fact, assuming
facts require the support of evidence.



Hard as it may be to believe, *I* had religious training when I was a
youngster, and read about and was *taught* many of the tales in the
bible, including that nonsense in Genesis about creation. I don't recall
more than two or three kids who accepted the bible as anything other
than a text in which belief in what it stated was based almost entirely
on faith.

I might have been 10 or 11 when I gave up entirely on belief in a
creator. One of the kids down the street was diagnosed with leukemia and
died in a couple of months, despite many efforts to save him. That was
my first sort of direct encounter with death, and when we kids talked
about it, several of us concluded there obviously was no god because if
there was, he/she/it wouldn't let innocent little kids die of horrific
diseases. In junior high and high school I was friends with a kid who
had contracted polio and while he survived, he was left with a limp and
a leg brace. Fortunately, he was a really smart kid in science and math
and there was no doubt he would "make it" in the world, but, again, I
wondered, why would god let a kid contract polio?

God is a construct of man. It isn't the other way around. The bible is a
nice book of mostly fictional stories written, edited, and compiled by
men and turned into beautiful English in the King James version. It's a
great read, for sure, but it isn't reality, history, or science.
It's fiction.




None of that matters to those who have faith. You seem to have a hard
time understanding that.

The same "faith" they try to shove down the throats of others. As if
their version has any more validity than the Mormons or the
Scientologists, just because they're ancient.

If there were a god, the Duggars would have been rendered impotent.



I have people calling me or emailing me just about every day trying to
shove something down my throat. Could be a car dealership, Direct TV,
or one of a hundred other marketeers of services. products or fund raisers.

I am a big boy. I know how to say no.

They're not threatening you with eternal hell. The sales schtick may
seem similar but the cost will hardly be the same.

The sales folks are not passing laws to restrict your rights as a citizen.
The fundie Christians and their enablers are.

Good point.

On 6/4/2015 6:06 PM, jps wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 17:58:07 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/4/2015 4:54 PM, jps wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 15:25:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/4/2015 3:20 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/4/15 3:05 PM, jps wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:25:58 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/3/2015 9:40 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/3/15 9:31 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/3/2015 6:51 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
When a student in Louisiana opens her textbook in biology class, she
might not have the standard Miller and Levine Biology with a
dragonfly
on the cover, and she might not ever learn about evolution. For some
Louisiana *public school* students, their science textbook is the
Bible,
and in biology class they read the Book of Genesis to learn the
“creation point of view.”

http://tinyurl.com/q75dhm4

Ah, Louisiana is raising its next generation of ignorant, stupid,
superstitious morons… The bible has no place in the public
schools as a
source of factual material.


Suggest you go read your own link again. They are not primarily
teaching creationism as "the" origin of life. They also teach the
concept of evolution.

Both are presented as theories and creationism is presented as an
argument against the theory of evolution. It's not singularly
taught in
the biology class curriculum.







The bible has no place in the public's schools as "an argument against
the theory of evolution. The ignorant simply do not understand what
"theory" means in the context of evolutionary theory.

Actually, the bible has no place in the public's K-12 schools, other
than a brief mention of it as the underpinning of several religions.


Here's the problem as I see it. These kids are going to public school
and learning the "approved" course of evolution in their biology class.
This makes the federal government and people like yourself happy.

Then, particularly in the south, they learn about creationism at home or
in their Sunday School classes.

They are now confused. Which is the correct story?

Isn't it better to present both as theories that people can make their
own minds up about? Isn't that the purpose of general education?
Why does it have to be only one discussion?

One is a theory, supported by observable science. The other is a
collection of stories that have little if any basis in fact, assuming
facts require the support of evidence.



Hard as it may be to believe, *I* had religious training when I was a
youngster, and read about and was *taught* many of the tales in the
bible, including that nonsense in Genesis about creation. I don't recall
more than two or three kids who accepted the bible as anything other
than a text in which belief in what it stated was based almost entirely
on faith.

I might have been 10 or 11 when I gave up entirely on belief in a
creator. One of the kids down the street was diagnosed with leukemia and
died in a couple of months, despite many efforts to save him. That was
my first sort of direct encounter with death, and when we kids talked
about it, several of us concluded there obviously was no god because if
there was, he/she/it wouldn't let innocent little kids die of horrific
diseases. In junior high and high school I was friends with a kid who
had contracted polio and while he survived, he was left with a limp and
a leg brace. Fortunately, he was a really smart kid in science and math
and there was no doubt he would "make it" in the world, but, again, I
wondered, why would god let a kid contract polio?

God is a construct of man. It isn't the other way around. The bible is a
nice book of mostly fictional stories written, edited, and compiled by
men and turned into beautiful English in the King James version. It's a
great read, for sure, but it isn't reality, history, or science.
It's fiction.




None of that matters to those who have faith. You seem to have a hard
time understanding that.

The same "faith" they try to shove down the throats of others. As if
their version has any more validity than the Mormons or the
Scientologists, just because they're ancient.

If there were a god, the Duggars would have been rendered impotent.



I have people calling me or emailing me just about every day trying to
shove something down my throat. Could be a car dealership, Direct TV,
or one of a hundred other marketeers of services. products or fund raisers.

I am a big boy. I know how to say no.

They're not threatening you with eternal hell. The sales schtick may
seem similar but the cost will hardly be the same.



If you are concerned with eternal hell maybe you should listen to them. :-)

On 6/4/2015 6:39 PM, jps wrote:
On 4 Jun 2015 22:10:59 GMT, Keyser Söze wrote:

jps wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 17:58:07 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/4/2015 4:54 PM, jps wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 15:25:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/4/2015 3:20 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/4/15 3:05 PM, jps wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:25:58 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/3/2015 9:40 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/3/15 9:31 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/3/2015 6:51 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
When a student in Louisiana opens her textbook in biology class, she
might not have the standard Miller and Levine Biology with a
dragonfly
on the cover, and she might not ever learn about evolution. For some
Louisiana *public school* students, their science textbook is the
Bible,
and in biology class they read the Book of Genesis to learn the
?creation point of view.?

http://tinyurl.com/q75dhm4

Ah, Louisiana is raising its next generation of ignorant, stupid,
superstitious morons? The bible has no place in the public
schools as a
source of factual material.


Suggest you go read your own link again. They are not primarily
teaching creationism as "the" origin of life. They also teach the
concept of evolution.

Both are presented as theories and creationism is presented as an
argument against the theory of evolution. It's not singularly
taught in
the biology class curriculum.







The bible has no place in the public's schools as "an argument against
the theory of evolution. The ignorant simply do not understand what
"theory" means in the context of evolutionary theory.

Actually, the bible has no place in the public's K-12 schools, other
than a brief mention of it as the underpinning of several religions.


Here's the problem as I see it. These kids are going to public school
and learning the "approved" course of evolution in their biology class.
This makes the federal government and people like yourself happy.

Then, particularly in the south, they learn about creationism at home or
in their Sunday School classes.

They are now confused. Which is the correct story?

Isn't it better to present both as theories that people can make their
own minds up about? Isn't that the purpose of general education?
Why does it have to be only one discussion?

One is a theory, supported by observable science. The other is a
collection of stories that have little if any basis in fact, assuming
facts require the support of evidence.



Hard as it may be to believe, *I* had religious training when I was a
youngster, and read about and was *taught* many of the tales in the
bible, including that nonsense in Genesis about creation. I don't recall
more than two or three kids who accepted the bible as anything other
than a text in which belief in what it stated was based almost entirely
on faith.

I might have been 10 or 11 when I gave up entirely on belief in a
creator. One of the kids down the street was diagnosed with leukemia and
died in a couple of months, despite many efforts to save him. That was
my first sort of direct encounter with death, and when we kids talked
about it, several of us concluded there obviously was no god because if
there was, he/she/it wouldn't let innocent little kids die of horrific
diseases. In junior high and high school I was friends with a kid who
had contracted polio and while he survived, he was left with a limp and
a leg brace. Fortunately, he was a really smart kid in science and math
and there was no doubt he would "make it" in the world, but, again, I
wondered, why would god let a kid contract polio?

God is a construct of man. It isn't the other way around. The bible is a
nice book of mostly fictional stories written, edited, and compiled by
men and turned into beautiful English in the King James version. It's a
great read, for sure, but it isn't reality, history, or science.
It's fiction.




None of that matters to those who have faith. You seem to have a hard
time understanding that.

The same "faith" they try to shove down the throats of others. As if
their version has any more validity than the Mormons or the
Scientologists, just because they're ancient.

If there were a god, the Duggars would have been rendered impotent.



I have people calling me or emailing me just about every day trying to
shove something down my throat. Could be a car dealership, Direct TV,
or one of a hundred other marketeers of services. products or fund raisers.

I am a big boy. I know how to say no.

They're not threatening you with eternal hell. The sales schtick may
seem similar but the cost will hardly be the same.

The sales folks are not passing laws to restrict your rights as a citizen.
The fundie Christians and their enablers are.

Good point.



What laws are those?

On 6/4/15 6:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/4/2015 6:39 PM, jps wrote:
On 4 Jun 2015 22:10:59 GMT, Keyser Söze wrote:

jps wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 17:58:07 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/4/2015 4:54 PM, jps wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 15:25:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 6/4/2015 3:20 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/4/15 3:05 PM, jps wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:25:58 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 6/3/2015 9:40 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/3/15 9:31 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/3/2015 6:51 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
When a student in Louisiana opens her textbook in biology
class, she
might not have the standard Miller and Levine Biology with a
dragonfly
on the cover, and she might not ever learn about evolution.
For some
Louisiana *public school* students, their science textbook
is the
Bible,
and in biology class they read the Book of Genesis to learn
the
?creation point of view.?

http://tinyurl.com/q75dhm4

Ah, Louisiana is raising its next generation of ignorant,
stupid,
superstitious morons? The bible has no place in the public
schools as a
source of factual material.


Suggest you go read your own link again. They are not
primarily
teaching creationism as "the" origin of life. They also
teach the
concept of evolution.

Both are presented as theories and creationism is presented
as an
argument against the theory of evolution. It's not singularly
taught in
the biology class curriculum.







The bible has no place in the public's schools as "an
argument against
the theory of evolution. The ignorant simply do not
understand what
"theory" means in the context of evolutionary theory.

Actually, the bible has no place in the public's K-12
schools, other
than a brief mention of it as the underpinning of several
religions.


Here's the problem as I see it. These kids are going to
public school
and learning the "approved" course of evolution in their
biology class.
This makes the federal government and people like yourself happy.

Then, particularly in the south, they learn about creationism
at home or
in their Sunday School classes.

They are now confused. Which is the correct story?

Isn't it better to present both as theories that people can
make their
own minds up about? Isn't that the purpose of general education?
Why does it have to be only one discussion?

One is a theory, supported by observable science. The other is a
collection of stories that have little if any basis in fact,
assuming
facts require the support of evidence.



Hard as it may be to believe, *I* had religious training when I
was a
youngster, and read about and was *taught* many of the tales in the
bible, including that nonsense in Genesis about creation. I
don't recall
more than two or three kids who accepted the bible as anything
other
than a text in which belief in what it stated was based almost
entirely
on faith.

I might have been 10 or 11 when I gave up entirely on belief in a
creator. One of the kids down the street was diagnosed with
leukemia and
died in a couple of months, despite many efforts to save him.
That was
my first sort of direct encounter with death, and when we kids
talked
about it, several of us concluded there obviously was no god
because if
there was, he/she/it wouldn't let innocent little kids die of
horrific
diseases. In junior high and high school I was friends with a
kid who
had contracted polio and while he survived, he was left with a
limp and
a leg brace. Fortunately, he was a really smart kid in science
and math
and there was no doubt he would "make it" in the world, but,
again, I
wondered, why would god let a kid contract polio?

God is a construct of man. It isn't the other way around. The
bible is a
nice book of mostly fictional stories written, edited, and
compiled by
men and turned into beautiful English in the King James version.
It's a
great read, for sure, but it isn't reality, history, or science.
It's fiction.




None of that matters to those who have faith. You seem to have a
hard
time understanding that.

The same "faith" they try to shove down the throats of others. As if
their version has any more validity than the Mormons or the
Scientologists, just because they're ancient.

If there were a god, the Duggars would have been rendered impotent.



I have people calling me or emailing me just about every day trying to
shove something down my throat. Could be a car dealership, Direct TV,
or one of a hundred other marketeers of services. products or fund
raisers.

I am a big boy. I know how to say no.

They're not threatening you with eternal hell. The sales schtick may
seem similar but the cost will hardly be the same.

The sales folks are not passing laws to restrict your rights as a
citizen.
The fundie Christians and their enablers are.

Good point.



What laws are those?



Laws restricting abortion and other womens' health issues; legislation
restricting access to state or federal health care programs;
restrictions against gays/lesbians; defunding of Planned Parenthood;
climate change denial; anti-immigrant regulations; pushing evangelism in
the public school...

The list is a long one. You may not see as much of it up in
Massachusetts, which has far fewer christian crazies than other parts of
the country.

On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 17:52:52 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The problem arises not because of their faith, but because they try to
push their religious beliefs on those who believe differently or not at
all.

Sounds like a familiar theme around here.

===

Touché.

;-)

On 6/4/2015 7:46 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/4/15 6:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/4/2015 6:39 PM, jps wrote:
On 4 Jun 2015 22:10:59 GMT, Keyser Söze wrote:

jps wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 17:58:07 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/4/2015 4:54 PM, jps wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 15:25:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 6/4/2015 3:20 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/4/15 3:05 PM, jps wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:25:58 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 6/3/2015 9:40 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/3/15 9:31 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/3/2015 6:51 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
When a student in Louisiana opens her textbook in biology
class, she
might not have the standard Miller and Levine Biology with a
dragonfly
on the cover, and she might not ever learn about evolution.
For some
Louisiana *public school* students, their science textbook
is the
Bible,
and in biology class they read the Book of Genesis to learn
the
?creation point of view.?

http://tinyurl.com/q75dhm4

Ah, Louisiana is raising its next generation of ignorant,
stupid,
superstitious morons? The bible has no place in the public
schools as a
source of factual material.


Suggest you go read your own link again. They are not
primarily
teaching creationism as "the" origin of life. They also
teach the
concept of evolution.

Both are presented as theories and creationism is presented
as an
argument against the theory of evolution. It's not singularly
taught in
the biology class curriculum.







The bible has no place in the public's schools as "an
argument against
the theory of evolution. The ignorant simply do not
understand what
"theory" means in the context of evolutionary theory.

Actually, the bible has no place in the public's K-12
schools, other
than a brief mention of it as the underpinning of several
religions.


Here's the problem as I see it. These kids are going to
public school
and learning the "approved" course of evolution in their
biology class.
This makes the federal government and people like yourself
happy.

Then, particularly in the south, they learn about creationism
at home or
in their Sunday School classes.

They are now confused. Which is the correct story?

Isn't it better to present both as theories that people can
make their
own minds up about? Isn't that the purpose of general
education?
Why does it have to be only one discussion?

One is a theory, supported by observable science. The other is a
collection of stories that have little if any basis in fact,
assuming
facts require the support of evidence.



Hard as it may be to believe, *I* had religious training when I
was a
youngster, and read about and was *taught* many of the tales in
the
bible, including that nonsense in Genesis about creation. I
don't recall
more than two or three kids who accepted the bible as anything
other
than a text in which belief in what it stated was based almost
entirely
on faith.

I might have been 10 or 11 when I gave up entirely on belief in a
creator. One of the kids down the street was diagnosed with
leukemia and
died in a couple of months, despite many efforts to save him.
That was
my first sort of direct encounter with death, and when we kids
talked
about it, several of us concluded there obviously was no god
because if
there was, he/she/it wouldn't let innocent little kids die of
horrific
diseases. In junior high and high school I was friends with a
kid who
had contracted polio and while he survived, he was left with a
limp and
a leg brace. Fortunately, he was a really smart kid in science
and math
and there was no doubt he would "make it" in the world, but,
again, I
wondered, why would god let a kid contract polio?

God is a construct of man. It isn't the other way around. The
bible is a
nice book of mostly fictional stories written, edited, and
compiled by
men and turned into beautiful English in the King James version.
It's a
great read, for sure, but it isn't reality, history, or science.
It's fiction.




None of that matters to those who have faith. You seem to have a
hard
time understanding that.

The same "faith" they try to shove down the throats of others.
As if
their version has any more validity than the Mormons or the
Scientologists, just because they're ancient.

If there were a god, the Duggars would have been rendered impotent.



I have people calling me or emailing me just about every day
trying to
shove something down my throat. Could be a car dealership, Direct
TV,
or one of a hundred other marketeers of services. products or fund
raisers.

I am a big boy. I know how to say no.

They're not threatening you with eternal hell. The sales schtick may
seem similar but the cost will hardly be the same.

The sales folks are not passing laws to restrict your rights as a
citizen.
The fundie Christians and their enablers are.

Good point.



What laws are those?



Laws restricting abortion and other womens' health issues; legislation
restricting access to state or federal health care programs;
restrictions against gays/lesbians; defunding of Planned Parenthood;
climate change denial; anti-immigrant regulations; pushing evangelism in
the public school...

The list is a long one. You may not see as much of it up in
Massachusetts, which has far fewer christian crazies than other parts of
the country.


As far as I know getting an abortion is perfectly legal in the USA. The
question, as it also applies to your other cites, is who pays for them?
Is it right to mandate that taxpayers fund every issue and program
regardless of personal views? They are political issues, not
religious issues.


that they