Chris Kyles killer wants change of venue
 

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/8/2015 5:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/8/2015 2:33 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 12:06:42 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/8/2015 11:51 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/8/15 11:00 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 07:49:33 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/7/15 11:58 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 07 Feb 2015 17:30:16 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

If he's as mentally ill as it sounds, he shouldn't be tried at all. He
should be committed.

The chance of being "cured" in an asylum is about as good as being
rehabilitated in prison.
Put him in the chair and tell him it's a ride.


How very revealing...execute the mentally ill.

Why not? Can you say any murderer is actually sane?

I understand you are against the death penalty in all circumstances
but the criminally insane should be at the front of the line. Cull the
herd, hopefully before they can reproduce. Darwin supports my position
on this.


Fortunately, most civilized people disagree.



The test is if the person committing the crime has the mental capacity
to know it's a crime ... or wrong.

OK I'll play. If someone is so mentally damaged that they do not think
killing another person is a crime, why would we want them on the
planet with us? We certainly do not want them influencing anyone else
behavioral or genetically.

That logic suggests anyone with a serious physical disability and is
dependent on others, including the government, for their
welfare should also be "eliminated". Don't need that burden, huh?

BTW ... what makes you think mental illness is hereditary?

He stated behavioral as well as genetic. And yes, I think genetics can
pass on mental illness. Friend is bipolar. His dad was bipolar and
committed suicide early on. His daughter is bipolar. And Gregg stated
killing someone. Not just being mentally incapacitated.



Seems like *everyone* is bipolar now-a-days.
.
So, you and Greg feel that a person who kills someone but is determined
to be insane should just automatically to to the chair ... or lethal injection gurney?

Actually as I told the judge on the last murder 1 jury summons I got. I
can go either way on the death penalty. We really do not have one now.
More likely to die of old age. And I think the last cost estimate to
execute someone in this state is in excess of $4.5 million dollars. At
least put them away for life. And someone killing someone is not
necessarily guilty of an death penalty crime. Lots are. But getting off
because you are insane is insane of society.

And most are ADD not bi-polar. And my mother in law was definitely
bi-,polar. As an aside on bipolar. Lots of bipolar are very functional.
Very successful. Richard Branson for one. My aquintance said probably the
reason he was rich. Mostly on the high end, and bought and sold numerous
companies. As he was always going.

Chris Kyles killer wants change of venue
 

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/8/15 6:17 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/8/2015 5:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/8/2015 2:33 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 12:06:42 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/8/2015 11:51 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/8/15 11:00 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 07:49:33 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/7/15 11:58 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 07 Feb 2015 17:30:16 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

If he's as mentally ill as it sounds, he shouldn't be tried at
all. He
should be committed.

The chance of being "cured" in an asylum is about as good as being
rehabilitated in prison.
Put him in the chair and tell him it's a ride.


How very revealing...execute the mentally ill.

Why not? Can you say any murderer is actually sane?

I understand you are against the death penalty in all circumstances
but the criminally insane should be at the front of the line.
Cull the
herd, hopefully before they can reproduce. Darwin supports my
position
on this.


Fortunately, most civilized people disagree.



The test is if the person committing the crime has the mental capacity
to know it's a crime ... or wrong.

OK I'll play. If someone is so mentally damaged that they do not think
killing another person is a crime, why would we want them on the
planet with us? We certainly do not want them influencing anyone else
behavioral or genetically.

That logic suggests anyone with a serious physical disability and is
dependent on others, including the government, for their
welfare should also be "eliminated". Don't need that burden, huh?

BTW ... what makes you think mental illness is hereditary?

He stated behavioral as well as genetic. And yes, I think genetics can
pass on mental illness. Friend is bipolar. His dad was bipolar and
committed suicide early on. His daughter is bipolar. And Gregg stated
killing someone. Not just being mentally incapacitated.



Seems like *everyone* is bipolar now-a-days.

So, you and Greg feel that a person who kills someone but is determined
to be insane should just automatically to to the chair ... or lethal
injection gurney?


Kinda of the WWII German approach about the insane...perhaps we can find
some surplus Zyklon B at a really low price to satisfy the boys.


Not even related to the discussion!

Chris Kyles killer wants change of venue
 

On 2/9/2015 12:01 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 23:23:39 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/8/2015 11:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 18:17:15 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Seems like *everyone* is bipolar now-a-days.

There is a lot of money in mental illness so it does get diagnosed
more than it may actually exist.


So, you and Greg feel that a person who kills someone but is determined
to be insane should just automatically to to the chair ... or lethal
injection gurney?

It would depend on the depth of the "mental defect" (the legal term)
and the severity of the crime but if it was a capital case and
abhorrent enough to survive all of the mandatory appeals, why not
execute them just like you would anyone else?

I also see little difference between life in prison and life in a
correctional mental facility. It is just a prison with a prescription
drug plan. They keep the inmates drugged into submission. Is that a
life? (yes I have been in one in my job)




I have a tough time with the death penalty period. I don't think
any person, judge or jury has the moral right to determine
who lives and who dies. It's an ultimate and very final decision.

I think it may have a bad past with poor people not getting a decent
defense but that is largely in the past. I still think we need
something more than simply warehousing a person for life, if that is
also the penalty for a serious drug charge.
Once you have sentenced a person to life, what else can you do to them
when they kill again?
What is the benefit to society in keeping them alive if you have
already said they are sentenced to death by prison? You are only
creating a more dangerous environment for the other inmates and the
correctional officers when these guys know they can't be punished any
more, no matter what they do.



You make the argument that it's just more "convenient" to execute them.
I just don't accept that anyone has the right to terminate a life.

Maybe making the prison environment for life sentences less pleasant is
an option. Work for food. Work for any type of privileges. Work for
the right to have a TV or any form of entertainment. Let the inmate
make the decision on how he wants to spend the rest of his life.
Stop worrying so much about an inmate's quality of life. Make him
accountable for it.

Chris Kyles killer wants change of venue
 

On 2/9/2015 2:44 AM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/8/2015 5:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/8/2015 2:33 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 12:06:42 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/8/2015 11:51 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/8/15 11:00 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 07:49:33 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/7/15 11:58 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 07 Feb 2015 17:30:16 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

If he's as mentally ill as it sounds, he shouldn't be tried at all. He
should be committed.

The chance of being "cured" in an asylum is about as good as being
rehabilitated in prison.
Put him in the chair and tell him it's a ride.


How very revealing...execute the mentally ill.

Why not? Can you say any murderer is actually sane?

I understand you are against the death penalty in all circumstances
but the criminally insane should be at the front of the line. Cull the
herd, hopefully before they can reproduce. Darwin supports my position
on this.


Fortunately, most civilized people disagree.



The test is if the person committing the crime has the mental capacity
to know it's a crime ... or wrong.

OK I'll play. If someone is so mentally damaged that they do not think
killing another person is a crime, why would we want them on the
planet with us? We certainly do not want them influencing anyone else
behavioral or genetically.

That logic suggests anyone with a serious physical disability and is
dependent on others, including the government, for their
welfare should also be "eliminated". Don't need that burden, huh?

BTW ... what makes you think mental illness is hereditary?

He stated behavioral as well as genetic. And yes, I think genetics can
pass on mental illness. Friend is bipolar. His dad was bipolar and
committed suicide early on. His daughter is bipolar. And Gregg stated
killing someone. Not just being mentally incapacitated.



Seems like *everyone* is bipolar now-a-days.
.
So, you and Greg feel that a person who kills someone but is determined
to be insane should just automatically to to the chair ... or lethal injection gurney?

Actually as I told the judge on the last murder 1 jury summons I got. I
can go either way on the death penalty. We really do not have one now.
More likely to die of old age. And I think the last cost estimate to
execute someone in this state is in excess of $4.5 million dollars. At
least put them away for life. And someone killing someone is not
necessarily guilty of an death penalty crime. Lots are. But getting off
because you are insane is insane of society.

And most are ADD not bi-polar. And my mother in law was definitely
bi-,polar. As an aside on bipolar. Lots of bipolar are very functional.
Very successful. Richard Branson for one. My aquintance said probably the
reason he was rich. Mostly on the high end, and bought and sold numerous
companies. As he was always going.



Seems all I hear about now-a-days is kids and young people being
diagnosed with either depression or being bi-polar. Makes me wonder
how many of my (our) generation would have been diagnosed with the
same afflictions had the interest in the subjects been as high as it
is today.

Too many people are living on pills today.

Chris Kyles killer wants change of venue
 

On 2/9/2015 4:59 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2015 12:01 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 23:23:39 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/8/2015 11:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 18:17:15 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Seems like *everyone* is bipolar now-a-days.

There is a lot of money in mental illness so it does get diagnosed
more than it may actually exist.


So, you and Greg feel that a person who kills someone but is
determined
to be insane should just automatically to to the chair ... or lethal
injection gurney?

It would depend on the depth of the "mental defect" (the legal term)
and the severity of the crime but if it was a capital case and
abhorrent enough to survive all of the mandatory appeals, why not
execute them just like you would anyone else?

I also see little difference between life in prison and life in a
correctional mental facility. It is just a prison with a prescription
drug plan. They keep the inmates drugged into submission. Is that a
life? (yes I have been in one in my job)




I have a tough time with the death penalty period. I don't think
any person, judge or jury has the moral right to determine
who lives and who dies. It's an ultimate and very final decision.

I think it may have a bad past with poor people not getting a decent
defense but that is largely in the past. I still think we need
something more than simply warehousing a person for life, if that is
also the penalty for a serious drug charge.
Once you have sentenced a person to life, what else can you do to them
when they kill again?
What is the benefit to society in keeping them alive if you have
already said they are sentenced to death by prison? You are only
creating a more dangerous environment for the other inmates and the
correctional officers when these guys know they can't be punished any
more, no matter what they do.



You make the argument that it's just more "convenient" to execute them.
I just don't accept that anyone has the right to terminate a life.

Maybe making the prison environment for life sentences less pleasant is
an option. Work for food. Work for any type of privileges. Work for
the right to have a TV or any form of entertainment. Let the inmate
make the decision on how he wants to spend the rest of his life.
Stop worrying so much about an inmate's quality of life. Make him
accountable for it.


How about cracking rocks or shoveling snow. Nobody said a lifer's
existence should be easy. No TV or entertainment either. ;-)

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

Chris Kyles killer wants change of venue
 

On 2/9/2015 7:28 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 2/9/2015 4:59 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2015 12:01 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 23:23:39 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/8/2015 11:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 18:17:15 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Seems like *everyone* is bipolar now-a-days.

There is a lot of money in mental illness so it does get diagnosed
more than it may actually exist.


So, you and Greg feel that a person who kills someone but is
determined
to be insane should just automatically to to the chair ... or lethal
injection gurney?

It would depend on the depth of the "mental defect" (the legal term)
and the severity of the crime but if it was a capital case and
abhorrent enough to survive all of the mandatory appeals, why not
execute them just like you would anyone else?

I also see little difference between life in prison and life in a
correctional mental facility. It is just a prison with a prescription
drug plan. They keep the inmates drugged into submission. Is that a
life? (yes I have been in one in my job)




I have a tough time with the death penalty period. I don't think
any person, judge or jury has the moral right to determine
who lives and who dies. It's an ultimate and very final decision.

I think it may have a bad past with poor people not getting a decent
defense but that is largely in the past. I still think we need
something more than simply warehousing a person for life, if that is
also the penalty for a serious drug charge.
Once you have sentenced a person to life, what else can you do to them
when they kill again?
What is the benefit to society in keeping them alive if you have
already said they are sentenced to death by prison? You are only
creating a more dangerous environment for the other inmates and the
correctional officers when these guys know they can't be punished any
more, no matter what they do.



You make the argument that it's just more "convenient" to execute them.
I just don't accept that anyone has the right to terminate a life.

Maybe making the prison environment for life sentences less pleasant is
an option. Work for food. Work for any type of privileges. Work for
the right to have a TV or any form of entertainment. Let the inmate
make the decision on how he wants to spend the rest of his life.
Stop worrying so much about an inmate's quality of life. Make him
accountable for it.


How about cracking rocks or shoveling snow. Nobody said a lifer's
existence should be easy. No TV or entertainment either. ;-)



Shoveling Snow! What an outstanding idea!

Chris Kyles killer wants change of venue
 

On Sunday, February 8, 2015 at 11:23:37 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/8/2015 11:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 18:17:15 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Seems like *everyone* is bipolar now-a-days.

There is a lot of money in mental illness so it does get diagnosed
more than it may actually exist.


So, you and Greg feel that a person who kills someone but is determined
to be insane should just automatically to to the chair ... or lethal
injection gurney?

It would depend on the depth of the "mental defect" (the legal term)
and the severity of the crime but if it was a capital case and
abhorrent enough to survive all of the mandatory appeals, why not
execute them just like you would anyone else?

I also see little difference between life in prison and life in a
correctional mental facility. It is just a prison with a prescription
drug plan. They keep the inmates drugged into submission. Is that a
life? (yes I have been in one in my job)




I have a tough time with the death penalty period. I don't think
any person, judge or jury has the moral right to determine
who lives and who dies. It's an ultimate and very final decision.

Usually, the person who is being subjected to that life or death decision made that same decision for another human being. And they decided death.

Chris Kyles killer wants change of venue
 

On 2/9/2015 7:56 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, February 8, 2015 at 11:23:37 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/8/2015 11:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 18:17:15 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Seems like *everyone* is bipolar now-a-days.

There is a lot of money in mental illness so it does get diagnosed
more than it may actually exist.


So, you and Greg feel that a person who kills someone but is determined
to be insane should just automatically to to the chair ... or lethal
injection gurney?

It would depend on the depth of the "mental defect" (the legal term)
and the severity of the crime but if it was a capital case and
abhorrent enough to survive all of the mandatory appeals, why not
execute them just like you would anyone else?

I also see little difference between life in prison and life in a
correctional mental facility. It is just a prison with a prescription
drug plan. They keep the inmates drugged into submission. Is that a
life? (yes I have been in one in my job)




I have a tough time with the death penalty period. I don't think
any person, judge or jury has the moral right to determine
who lives and who dies. It's an ultimate and very final decision.

Usually, the person who is being subjected to that life or death decision made that same decision for another human being. And they decided death.


So why is taking a life in return any less criminal or immoral?

I know it's a tough issue and in some cases I could probably be
convinced to change my mind. I think I'd favor more of a return
to hard labor and minimal, life enhancing privileges. Take away
the TV's, the basketball courts, visitation, etc. Let the convicted
murderer stew in thought for the rest of his/her life.

Maybe make a cyanide pill available if they decide life isn't worth
living anymore. Let *them* make the choice.

Chris Kyles killer wants change of venue
 

On 2/9/2015 8:22 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
Maybe make a cyanide pill available if they decide life isn't worth
living anymore. Let *them* make the choice.

I had the exact same thought, But I didn't want to open this up to a
Kavorkian discussion.

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

Chris Kyles killer wants change of venue
 

On 2/9/2015 8:47 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 2/9/2015 8:22 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
Maybe make a cyanide pill available if they decide life isn't worth
living anymore. Let *them* make the choice.

I had the exact same thought, But I didn't want to open this up to a
Kavorkian discussion.



I have no problem with people having the option of dying rather than
living a hopeless life due to terminal sickness, etc.

I'd have no problem with a convicted, imprisoned murderer deciding to
end it all either.